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Offline joeteekay

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nephesh - dead or alive
« on: May 10, 2015, 03:01:35 AM »
Nephesh - a living soul or a dead soul


When one looks up the meaning of the Hebrew word nephesh (H5315) in Strong's concordance its primary meaning is:


נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental)
Ö


Strong's goes on to give a variety of meanings. There is no consistent rendering into English of this word.  The majority view is that nephesh means a living soul or living creature.  Is this accurate?

(KJV)  Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

(YLT)   Gen 2:7  And Jehovah God formeth the manódust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

Gen. 2:7 tells us that the way in which a person or creature becomes a living soul is by the breath of life.  If there is no breath, there is no life.  Without breath the creature (nephesh - soul) is dead.  So there can be a dead soul (no breath) or a living soul (with breath).

So there is such a thing as a dead soul, a dead nephesh.

Many scriptures would indicate this!

Num 9:6  And there were certain men, who were defiled by the dead body (H5315 - nephesh) of a man, that they could not keep the Passover on that day: and they came before Moses and before Aaron on that day:

Lev. 19:28Lev 19:28  Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead (H5315 - nephesh) , nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Lev 21:1  And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead  (H5315 - nephesh) among his people:

Lev 22:4  What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead (H5315 - nephesh), or a man whose seed goeth from him;

Num 5:2  Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead (H5315 - nephesh):

Num 6:11  And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, and make an atonement for him, for that he sinned by the dead (H5315 - nephesh), and shall hallow his head that same day.

Num 9:7  And those men said unto him, We are defiled by the dead body (H5315 - nephesh)  of a man: wherefore are we kept back, that we may not offer an offering of the LORD in his appointed season among the children of Israel?

Num 9:10  Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body (H5315 - nephesh), or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the Passover unto the LORD.


A living creature is physical. It can be experienced through the 5 senses that we have.  It can be seen, it can be felt, etc.  Similarly with a dead soul.  However when buried the dead soul is in the grave. It is the imperceptible, the unseen.  The body returns to dust.  What happens to the soul.  We know that the soul is not immortal.  Many scriptures tell us that (e.g. Ezek 18:4), so that  is not an issue.

So what happens to the soul at death?  I believe it exists in a dormant state awaiting a resurrection.

(KJV)Isa_26:19  Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

YLT Isa 26:19 `Thy dead liveóMy dead body they rise. Awake and sing, ye dwellers in the dust, For the dew of herbs is thy dew, And the land of Rephaim thou causest to fall.

(KJV) Dan_12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

CLV Dan. 12:2  From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion."

There have been many posts on this forum concerning the soul and what it is and is not.  I hope to continue this topic in a new thread dealing with this question from New Testament scriptures.  Before that, below are some of the posts from previous posts on this topic, with the first few being especially insightful. I hope Ronen can give us more info on the derivation of nephesh from the original Hebrew symbols.

marie glen
http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/just-what-is-spirit/msg184699/#msg184699
Ronen
http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/soul-sleep-12624/msg172451/#msg172451
rosered
http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/ego-best-friend-of-foe/msg161016/#msg161016
Tom
http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/selling-your-soul-to-the-devil/msg162619/#msg162619
molly
http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/the-soul-8292/msg100040/#msg100040
whitewings
http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/spirit-and/msg99906/#msg99906
gasman
http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/spirit-and/msg99906/#msg99906
whitewings
http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/the-greek-soul-vs-what-a-soul-is/msg141806/#msg141806
whitewings
http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/creation/msg123010/#msg123010
micah
http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-threatenings-explained/soul-food/msg100683/#msg100683
whitewings
http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/breath-of-life/msg123853/#msg123853
reFORMer
http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/what-things-are-alive/msg96148/#msg96148
whitewings
http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/sheol/msg79200/#msg79200
whitewings
http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/shocking-spiritual-ignorance/msg61834/#msg61834
molly
http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/christ's-death/msg108731/#msg108731

3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Offline JonesHenry

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2015, 05:02:27 AM »
Nefesh = an ANIMATED OBJECT! Does not even have to be alive! Like a rock, river, tree...ANYTHING REALLY...as long as it simply...IS



You know...this is very close to the Japanese KAMI!

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2011/07/09/our-lives/on-rock-worship-and-the-shinto-gods



Personally i think i know why. I believe that after the days of Noah hes people wondered off to all the different parts of the world! The sons of Ham shared both similar believes and even ethnicity. I believe that this explains many similarities with calcasoids and mongoloids including similar (pagan) ancient religious beliefs, but then again, this is just a personal THEORY!



Ruach = the "breath" of life. Originally meant throat. Can also simply describe the human metabolism.



So...the word doesent actually mean "spirit" but the FIRE that is LITERALLY BURNING inside you!



Neshamah = Ok, now were getting CLOSER!



Neshamah is something that ONLY HUMANS posesses!



It literally means INTELLIGENCE of the soul!



But can also mean "instinct"



At this point it is important to remember, that the Hebrews DID NOT BELIEVE in life after death. Only in the RESURRECTION!


"Yahweh God commanded the man, saying, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden; but you shall not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will SURELY DIE! "

Genesis 1:16-17



"At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will AWAKE, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and EVERLASTING CONTEMPT! Those who are wise will shine as the brightness of the expanse. Those who turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many will run back and forth, and knowledge will be increased."

Daniel 12:1-4



Im afraid im too tired and exhausted at this point to write anymore. You could say this stuff is literally taking the "breath" the RUACH out of me!



But anyway atleast to me that is it. If your looking for stuff like "the Nefesh in sheol/hades" then your not really going to find it. There some talks of peoples spirits in "hell" in the book of Job, but those are purely symbolic. The book of Job is a strongly figurative book. It is FULL of symbols and mysticism. It was NOT written byt a PROPHET or hes fellow scribe. It is a POETIC BOOK not to be taken LITERALLY!



So, not even going to bother to link to it.



Anyway...thats all from me now. And that stuff about people being alive while there dead...thats from Egyptian culture and Egyptian gods, where it wondered off into Greek so calles "philosophy" I believe it is not biblical. As for Near Death Exoeriences...well thats opening a whole new can of worms all together! Problem with NDE:s is that almost all people see something that is related with there believe system. I know an Indian woman who had cancer, died...and saw GOD but no Jesus! I know i would be REALLY disappointed if i didn't get to meet Jesus when i die!



At this poin it all becomes so subjective  that there is no point if going on anymore. I guess you could say...you believe in what ever you WANT to believe. Peace :declare:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 05:11:36 AM by JonesHenry »

Offline joeteekay

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2015, 06:00:27 AM »


Im afraid im too tired and exausted at this point to write anymore. You could say this stuff is literally taking the "breath" the RUACH out of me!



But anyway atlast to me that is it. If your looking for stuff like "the Nefesh in sheol/hades" then your not really going to find it. There some talks of peoples spirits in "hell" in the book of Job, but those are purely symbolic. The book of Job is a strongly figurative book. It is FULL of symbols and mysticism. It was NOT written byt a PROPHET or hes fellow scribe. It is a POETIC BOOK not to be taken LITERALLY!



So, not even going to bother to link to it.



Anyway...thats all from ne now. And that stuff about people being alive while there dead...thats from Egyptian culture and Egyptian gods, where it wondered off into Greek so calles "philosophy" I believe it is not biblical. As for Near Death Exoeriences...well thats opening a whole new can of worms all together! Problem with NDE:s is that almost all people see something that is related with there believe system. I know an Indian woman who had cancer, died...and saw GOD but no Jesus! I know i would be really disappointed if i didnt get to meet Jesus when i die!



At this poin it all becomes so subjective  that there is no point if going on anymore. I guess you could say...you believe n what ever you WANT to believe. Peace :declare:

Nothing in my post said anything about people being alive when they are dead. I am thinking you are not reading the valuable and God inspired posts made by many forum members. I hope you are marching, not to your own drum, but to the drum and voice of our Lord and Saviour and King - Jesus the Christ.

Peace 
3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Offline marie glen

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2015, 06:26:05 AM »
well.. I think discussion can indeed be frustrating.. It's interesting to hear of other's views.. and there's many, but sometimes there seems to be so many different views about everything, it can be a bit discouraging.. I'll have to come back and read this thread more closely - I just kind of skimmed, because it's late and sleep is calling to me.. but I surely see some interesting things here.. and some new digging into the Hebrew words and viewpoint..

A great rest of the weekend brothers! God bless! :smile:
Jesus prayed "Sanctify them by thy truth, thy word is truth" John 17:17

.."in Christ all shall be made alive.. but each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those at His coming.. & then when He delivers the kingdom to the Father.." [Mt 13:33/1Cor 15:22-26]
 ~ The ancient fall holy days prophecy the long 2nd advent - Day of Atonement(DOA) as Day of Judgment
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Offline rosered

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2015, 04:31:01 PM »
well.. I think discussion can indeed be frustrating.. It's interesting to hear of other's views.. and there's many, but sometimes there seems to be so many different views about everything, it can be a bit discouraging.. I'll have to come back and read this thread more closely - I just kind of skimmed, because it's late and sleep is calling to me.. but I surely see some interesting things here.. and some new digging into the Hebrew words and viewpoint..

A great rest of the weekend brothers! God bless! :smile:


 Hi Marie 
 What  if there are degrees of   understanding   shared  that is    truth     to that     person ,      these examples      will hopefully prove my point    I have been thinking about this and    read all of Jones   and Joes     links   on both counts ,   it is expansive  and interesting   and  not  discussed in deep   circles often because it is elusive ...
   Lets take and egg
 
  Now to the chicken    , this  egg  is her offspring   , and   her use  ,desires to "set "  and   wait till the day    her   little one  arrives      but is no longer an egg   so she nurtures    her new baby chick
 
  To the person who loves scrambled eggs    , she takes the eggs and gathers them    and    the use for the egg is to     eat it /   devour it  and to them that is their  use of the egg
 
  to the rooster  , the egg is   just an egg
 
   to the chicken snake   it is dinner    for days
 
  I cannot think of any more   uses  , but   to every   purpose  the egg  hold some weight
 
 As far as the soul   goes  , I personally     just my thoughts here ,    there is a difference  between the soul and spirit     in  humans   from animals
 
 I saw where there are two souls in Jones   link    , I have heard that before
 
  I think  two   souls for two different natures  one is    animal  like  runs on thoughts and insitncts of desires      and the other one is of the divine  nature that is godly     but this is also from  God..
 
Seeing  both natures ,of its  kind ,   one is   earthly  and the other is  of the divine   and Father of  everything    and  He purposes  both natures according to His will
 
  I can see how how God  would allow   a nature  of a soul /life   to run    "wild "   in the   earth     for any amount of time    , till its use is   known 
  If it be for food  or prey or for destroying     only to be destroyed    its own  self    in the end
 
 Now separating what is earthly and heavenly in humans   is a lot harder to   discern    than in nature teaching us   
 
 After reading  1 Corth 13   last night    ,   it helped  showing  us all that     every purpose    and  knowledge and  prophecy   and even faith  all  have its use and has its end   
 But Love never does  have an end and its purpose is  used and   endless     , so a bigger mystery to me after reading about the soul  that  Joeteekay   wants more clarity  about     , makes me wonder       even more about this Love    and God and just how   do we   use it and obtain  more and more  of  it
 
 After reading 1Coth 13  it seems the  the most important thing to Know about God   
 And to be really  honest     with everyone here      love is one of the hardest things to explain    in words that   has ever come  into the world
 
  All them uses  of love expressed    is mind boggling , I know souls love   ,    we all have animals that we love and they show love to us     back
 
  Its an attitude  of  bond  ,   we had had dogs on this farm for years and everyone of them show  different personalities    / character   of  every  soul/life  ?
 
  We had one names Sunny Boy and golden retriever  that was   exceptionally   "  brilliant  "       his intelligence  and loyalty and love was known by all     who  met him
 
   We loved him like family  , he was family and the empty  "spot '  in our hearts when he died     left us all mourning  even still after years  , I know this was a gift   
 
 God made us see love in an animal  nature      that through the experience   of  a season     /age  of 11 years and 4 months     that without it we would have lacked
 
  a bond     that even though he is dead now in body , his " memory "'   thought and love with it , that never dies    "   has not died with  him   
 
  we carry him in our hearts still   , so I am wondering if the soul is like this  nature  that  if its good  we remember    , Like Gods gifts     to us through Jesus Christ   , His  one of a kind Son   and Gods Son was perfect     and   is really  found in everything   and all connected   by LIFE in and of Itself 
         
 
  But the bad things   are forgotten      , though Sunny Boy  did not do" bad things "    some  in    both types of nature 's    heavenly and earthly     do   .
 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 05:58:52 PM »
Quote
I hope Ronen can give us more info on the derivation of nephesh from the original Hebrew symbols.
Shalom Joe,

Thank you for thinking of me. I am not sure though, that anything I would share about the letters would prove to be anything beyond just a tad bit interesting to those who find such things interesting. :) It simply expresses the idea of the waving back and forth (related Hebrew word nuph) of the chest when breathing in and out...basically the act of breathing. The same letters, pronounced 'naphash', expresses an action (ceasing from activity) which cultivates a breathing in and out, what is called 'refreshment'. (Exo 23:12). It is known by the idiom 'catching one's breath'. The Hebrew word 'anaph', with the aleph placed in front of the nph marriage root, expresses a cultivated breathing (through the flared nostril of the nose), what we call 'anger'.

As you can see, this might be interesting, but not sure if it adds anything to your discussion.  :dontknow:

Ronen

p.s. May your weekend produce naphush (refreshment) for you Marie :)

Offline rosered

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 06:06:10 PM »
Quote
I hope Ronen can give us more info on the derivation of nephesh from the original Hebrew symbols.
Shalom Joe,

Thank you for thinking of me. I am not sure though, that anything I would share about the letters would prove to be anything beyond just a tad bit interesting to those who find such things interesting. :) It simply expresses the idea of the waving back and forth (related Hebrew word nuph) of the chest when breathing in and out...basically the act of breathing. The same letters, pronounced 'naphash', expresses an action (ceasing from activity) which cultivates a breathing in and out, what is called 'refreshment'. (Exo 23:12). It is known by the idiom 'catching one's breath'. The Hebrew word 'anaph', with the aleph placed in front of the nph marriage root, expresses a cultivated breathing (through the flared nostril of the nose), what we call 'anger'.

As you can see, this might be interesting, but not sure if it adds anything to your discussion.  :dontknow:

Ronen

p.s. May your weekend produce naphush (refreshment) for you Marie :)

   :thumbsup:
 
  Good stuff  Ronen
 
   what  of two souls  , is this some kind of   thing  ,  one animal and another     divine  in nature ?
 
  Jesus said ,   What would a man  exchange for his soul ?    what is it to  have the  whole world and loose your soul ?    breath /LIFE
 
  Is Jesus saying exchange it for His soul /Life ?
 

  Just asking   for your opinion / judgment on this  very   unique discussion  .
 
   
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2015, 07:36:55 PM »
Shalom Rose,

From my understanding of scripture, the nephesh of an animal is the same as a human, both are considered neph'shot (souls). There is a kabbalistic teaching concerning levels or types of neph'shot. There is also kabbalistic teaching concerning 2 souls, but I do not hold to that understanding.

Animals and humans also both have neshemah (breath), one and the same. You can see this in Gen 7:21,22.

Quote
Jesus said ,   What would a man  exchange for his soul ?    what is it to  have the  whole world and loose your soul ?    breath /LIFE
 
  Is Jesus saying exchange it for His soul /Life ?

Yeshua says this in the context of denying oneself. (Mat 16:24) What a person desires naturally is likened Hebraically to the actions of leaning (in the direction of the desire) and panting. Remember that a nephesh is one who waves the chest back and forth due to the neshamah (breath) in them. What a person breathes after and leans toward is what one desires...

I think Yeshua is saying that by gaining all of what is material in this world, going after all that the nephesh breathes after, one ends up lacking what they hope will satisfy them. Such ones have the cart before the horse, so to speak. For it is only in denying the nephesh for Him that one truly ends up finding it. One is only refreshed (nashamah) when one stops searching and seeking. Those who seek only the physical and material, thinking those things will truly satisfy the nephesh, bringing about nashamah, will only find their nephesh lacking.

The prodigal son sought all the material things he thought would bring refreshment to his nephesh, and in the process, his nephesh became lacking, and lost. It was only when he returned to the thing he thought was causing the problem in the first place, the place he truly belonged (home with Abba), that he found his nephesh.

Ronen

Offline rosered

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2015, 07:42:14 PM »
 



Thanks Ronen ,

  Blessings of peace   to you and your house  as well  :HeartThrob:
 

  Good   sound words .
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline gregoryfl

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2015, 09:14:57 PM »
Quote
Jesus said ,   What would a man  exchange for his soul ?    what is it to  have the  whole world and loose your soul ?    breath /LIFE
 
  Is Jesus saying exchange it for His soul /Life ?

I just noticed that your question was not about man's soul, but Yeshua's (His). I totally missed that.

I see it, not so much as an exchange, as in giving away one's soul for something else, but rather a exchange of recognition (Yeshua calls it a finding) of the soul in relation to the source of substance of Life, Yeshua himself.

One finds himself or herself by giving up the futile search for everything that ultimately leads one to a sense of emptiness, and instead, denies such things by resting in the truth of who we are in Him.

Offline Tom

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2015, 09:33:13 PM »
I think God created living souls who are dying, and, when they're dead, they're not alive. That should be self-explanatory, but the doctrine of immortality of the soul is a popular philosophy that doesn't seem to die even though scripture says souls die. It seems to come down to how folks define death. Some seem to think it is another form of life, but I don't think it is.

"Yahweh Elohim formed the human out of soil from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the breath of life; and the human became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7)

"The soul that is sinning, it shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4,20)

"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

I think what scripture has to say about death is easy to understand, but philosophical arguments about the interpretation keep the subject of death alive but not those who are dead. I understand why some folks believe they're alive when they're dead, but I don't share their perspective.

That's all I'm going to say about death because I think Joe wants to talk about the concept of "soul" not death.

I think "soul" from the Greek "psuche," literally "cool," which is why I guess you're cool if you have "soul," corresponds to the Hebrew "nphsh," and it is the sensation or conscious experience resulting from the combination of an organic body with breath or spirit.

Here is a link with plenty of good information about the "soul."

http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/WhatIsTheSoul.html

Offline rosered

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2015, 10:05:38 PM »
Quote
Jesus said ,   What would a man  exchange for his soul ?    what is it to  have the  whole world and loose your soul ?    breath /LIFE
 
  Is Jesus saying exchange it for His soul /Life ?

I just noticed that your question was not about man's soul, but Yeshua's (His). I totally missed that.

I see it, not so much as an exchange, as in giving away one's soul for something else, but rather a exchange of recognition (Yeshua calls it a finding) of the soul in relation to the source of substance of Life, Yeshua himself.

One finds himself or herself by giving up the futile search for everything that ultimately leads one to a sense of emptiness, and instead, denies such things by resting in the truth of who we are in Him.


   Again Thanks Ronen ,
 
   I just saw this   word for    transform  , this is why I was asking     you.
 
  Like the mind    ,   to change in appearance  and character     
 
 I  love it that is to be more like Him or the "hidden   one of the heart" 
 
  May be why He said  ,something along the lines of ,  To the least you have done  to my brethren you have done unto me .... 
 
 He is there   but   not seen with  the natural eye , but more along the lines of    the eye of understanding ,  a perception .
 
   
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2015, 04:33:03 AM »
 :cloud9: I've shared a lot on this in the past and I don't want to belabor it again, but gregory's post made me think of something I believe I received. This is what is what life and death are in God's eyes: He breathes out (life), He breaths in (death/returning to the One who sent it).

The spirit returns to the One who sent it, the soul stays trapped by whatever it did not overcome while in the body, awaiting the resurrection (reunion of the soul with the spirit). The soul is the mind, will, emotions and desires, corresponding to the chambers of the human heart. It's who WE are, compared to who HE is, and obviously there is a difference.

All things are being reconciled back unto Him. My  :2c: Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline joeteekay

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2015, 05:04:02 AM »
Hello Cardinal,

I believe you summed up much in a few words. True words:


The spirit returns to the One who sent it, the soul stays trapped by whatever it did not overcome while in the body, awaiting the resurrection (reunion of the soul with the spirit)

 :ty:

3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 01:47:57 AM »
 :sigh: :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2015, 08:55:22 AM »
But there are souls who will not remain trapped, because they overcame by the word of their testimony and the blood of the Lamb, enduring to the end.

 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.



eis ten exanistasin ten ek nekron- to the "out-resurrection" out of the dead.

The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline Cardinal

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2015, 06:20:49 PM »
 :cloud9: Yes, that's true also.... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Tom

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2015, 07:03:43 PM »
I don't know about souls being trapped, only that they become "unseen" when dead.

Offline sheila

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 07:09:29 PM »
...not many believe unto the salvation of the soul...but 'my soul magnifyeth the Lord"  and the salvation of our souls is the Glory of God

   O'Immanuel...God with us..is the saviour of our souls.

   Obadiah 21  Saviours will go up on Mt Zion to govern the mountains of Esau,and the kingdom will be the Lord's.

   Jesus testimony is what overcomes the lost soul of man. the soul that is sinning will die. as all have bore the image of the corrupt

  "sinning soul/man" so,too,shall all bear the image of the incorrupt[sinless lamb]   we must overcome the accusor of the brethern..

  for they are like the stars that fall and are dissolved[heaven that passes away] that the new heavens...saviours arising on Mt Zion

   rule as new heavens...and that the waters of life..become CR[Y}IST_AL{L} CLEAR..with no more curse unto man.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2015, 07:12:27 PM »
Receive the word implanted which is able to save your souls :)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline sheila

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 07:23:02 PM »
...what shall ye give for the 'EXCHANGE" of your souls..shall ye give the firstborn?...we shall all be 'CHANGED"  this also..the change of

  GARMENTS.....=the BEST ROBE=CELESTIAL GLORIFIED BODY....   prodigals=all men bound in sin/corrupted image.

......the LOST/DEAD SOULS

   this my son was dead...... BUT IS NOW ALIVE....all of this is the work of God,children...the very salvation and recovery of

 the lost[souls]  OUR WORK IS TO BELEIVE IN THE ONE HE SENT!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 07:26:23 PM »
 :cloud9: Unseen to eyes of flesh, but if God grants it since He is not a God of the dead but of the living, and all live unto Him.......then we can see, just as Moses and Elijah were seen by the 3 He chose.

When He said of the damsel, she's not dead, she sleepeth, we assumed He meant her physical body, but he was speaking of her soul being asleep. And she heard His voice/bteath and arose out of the grave of her body, the spirit and the soul back in union. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Tom

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2015, 07:32:01 PM »
I hear ya, sis. They're seen by God, figuratively sleeping, and all will eventually be awakened at two different times.

Offline rosered

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Re: nephesh - dead or alive
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2015, 08:07:26 PM »

 Just some thoughts on a thing that is very hard to   express lol.. :laughing7:


  The soul in a man    of life being " breath "is by emotions   being expressed .......

 You cannot do this without a soul   and body 
 feel    hunger , feel pain , feel   joy    , the Lord come that we might have a more  ABUNDANT  LIFE  in the soul   
 full of good things    received from the HOLY SPIRIT   or not
 
 but
 
  The emotional part is        ....... if you express  by animation   what the soul feels
 
   
 
  I feel dead tired   ....   
  I have known love
 it is the seat of emotions   that   animals , creatures     all life and mankind  have   and feel 
 if you skin a tree   , it harms it       and   the tree releases     sap to heal     ,  seems   revenge  in  man and animals wrath
 
and a tree   that is cut down   ,  makes  new shoots   off the  root system     still in the earth     

  all this expression  is how we  discern   what is spirit and what is flesh   
 
Your  waring of the flesh against the Spirit , causes the soul to become sick    ,    or die in the sense its not    experiencing the good     that the Spirit of Life brings .
 
 everything feels   and operates on what it is feeling      and this expresses outwardly the condition of the soul     
 
 unrest      when the Soul  and Spirit  are  disconnected   and  takes a toll   on  the body
 If the Spirit of God is not   first and leading      the soul to Life in Christ    the body suffers   
 
  and the Flesh being the ruler over the spirit  /wrong spirit  an  evil one  again the body suffers   

  We don't know suffering except by the soul being    expressed       though the warring of the flesh and Spirit      being divided
  and at odds within
 
   Sis and I were just speaking of this   sort of ...
 
  Thinking  of   Jesus saying..."' you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children  , How much more will the Heavenly Father give to those whom ask Him";
 
     and  its Having   the right spirit  ,  HIS SPIRIT  , and the soul  is connected   obedient  and expressed in the body    as whole  or complete
   perfect   meaning they all  3  agree  together     and
  not  out of harmony        within one another  , giving rest  , and peace   and joy in the Lord   more of an abundant life in the here and Now

 
   
Jesus is the reward  !!