Author Topic: What is salvation?  (Read 1455 times)

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Offline Seth

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2014, 07:15:33 PM »
 :iagree:

On the other hand, you never know. You just never know. Remember where Apostle Paul came from.  :dsunny:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2014, 07:21:05 PM »
Absolutely. All things are possible with God.  :banana:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline rosered

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2014, 07:21:19 PM »
It is always in Gods timing when he opens some one's eyes.
The only thing separating the all from being in the all is time.

Jesus conquered time, the Holy Spirit somehow made the cross the center of time.
The cross has affected the Garden(Past) and coming ages.
The cross will always have the same effect. No matter the time.
The eyes must be made to be open.
 

 
 Amen ! 
 the fullness of time   Christ come and died on the Cross !!'
 
  now at the climax or end of the ages
 
Hebrews   9   26 Hebrews 9:26Expanded Bible (EXB)

26 ·Then [Otherwise; In such a case,] he would have had to suffer many times ·since the world was made [from the foundation/creation of the world]. But Christ ·came [appeared] ·only once and for all time [once for all; 7:27; 9:12, 26; 10:10] at the ·end [culmination; climax] of ·the present age [time; L the ages] to ·take away all [nullify; abolish] sin by sacrificing himself.
 
       Grace is it ,  there is nothing left  when  the grace is not  taken
  but all will  , every knee will bow and  every tongue confess   JESUS CHRIST IS LORD !!
 
 Romans14 

 …10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? [satans  same accusing  nature   that murders his brother before God day and night
  under the law /night   and under grace / Day !!] 



For we will all stand[/b] before the judgment seat of God.


 11For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."


12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God
.
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline rosered

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2014, 08:11:06 PM »

Yes the  saving work of the Cross    :flowerred:
 By grace you are saved its the gift of God    , Jesus is the reward !!
 

so many are still bound by the law and are   being judged   by the Law  still   but  when  we   try to do good in the Law  because we love God and he loves us

    the gift of Christ in you the hope of glory comes     reward  make a gift of something to (someone) in recognition of their services, efforts, or achievements.

  Jesus says in the scriptures  we search and think life   is in them , but its really in the Holy Spirit   of Jesus Christ &Father  that the Life is given !!!



36 "But I have a ·proof [testimony; witness] about myself that is ·greater [weightier] than that of John. [L For] The ·things [L works] I do, which are the ·things [L works] my Father gave me to ·do [complete; finish; C the signs and miracles which point to his saving work on the cross], ·prove [testify; witness] that the Father sent me.



37 And the Father himself who sent me has given ·proof [testimony; witness] ·about me [concerning me; on my behalf]. You have never heard his voice or seen ·what he looks like [his form; his outward appearance].



38 His ·teaching [word; message] does not ·live [remain; abide] in you, because you don't believe in the One the Father sent.


 39 You ·carefully study [search; examine] the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. They do in fact ·tell [testify; witness] ·about me [concerning me; on my behalf], 40 but you ·refuse [do not want] to come to me to have that life.



41 "I don't ·need [or accept; receive] ·praise [glory; honor] from people.



42 But I know you—I know that you don't have God's love in you.

43 I have come ·from my Father and speak for him [L in my Father's name], ·but [or and] you don't ·accept [receive] me. But when another person comes, ·speaking only for himself [L in his own name], you will ·accept [receive] him.



44 You try to ·get praise [receive glory/honor] from each other, but you do not try to ·get the praise [receive glory/honor] that comes from the only God. So how can you believe?



45 Don't think that I will ·stand before the Father and say you are wrong [L accuse you before the Father].


 The one who ·says you are wrong [L accuses you] is Moses, the one ·you hoped would save you [L in whom you hoped].



46 [L For] If you really believed Moses, you would believe me, because Moses wrote about me [C in the Torah, the first five books of the OT; for example, Deut. 18:15 quoted in Acts 3:22]. 47 But if you don't believe what Moses wrote, how can you believe what I say?"
Jesus is the reward  !!

Online Tom

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2014, 10:02:37 PM »
I agree that we're inspired by holy spirit through the word of God, but I think inaccurate translations can make it harder to fully understand the meaning of things such as "Gehenna" vs. "hell." I think discovering that made a big difference in how I understood the whole story.

What I was saying was that a person who easily overlooks the many verses on UR will not likely be persuaded by some debated word translations. At least thats what I've experienced..

I agree in the sense that if people "overlook" any scripture, they pretty much have no use for scripture in the first place. But there are some people who see a scripture, but are not able to resolve a seeming conflict with other scripture because they do not understand the definitions of some words. I have had more than a few people contact me from my website and tell me that understanding the definitions of these words has made universal salvation something they could finally embrace.

They wanted to believe it, but they couldn't because they were unable to resolve the problems. Defining the terms can help resolve the problems people see, when they cannot accept universal salvation based on 1 Timothy 4:10

It was the opposite with me when I first became aware of universal reconciliation and tried hard to disprove it. After I became aware of translation issues, the more I read, I finally became convinced it had to be true. I just was amazed that I never heard of it before, but then I realized that's because the church did such a good job of hiding it by forgery in the translation of scripture. Just by changing a few words, the church has changed the whole story. That's why I think translation is something that needs to be seen as important when you're reading scripture even though we need to realize there is no perfect version.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2014, 04:58:52 AM »
I believe we are not saved.....yet.....we are BEING saved....salvation is a process to become....It's hard, It's tough and through much tribulation. Saved is to be healed, made whole, we are being protected, delivered, kept in our walk, under His wing until we are able to fly under His power, spirit. I like the this translation, it brings it into a focus.....the present, now.
CLV(i) 16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian."

Of course it is only an opinion. :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2014, 07:08:49 PM »

Yes the  saving work of the Cross    :flowerred:
 By grace you are saved its the gift of God    , Jesus is the reward !!
 

so many are still bound by the law and are   being judged   by the Law  still   but  when  we   try to do good in the Law  because we love God and he loves us

    the gift of Christ in you the hope of glory comes     reward  make a gift of something to (someone) in recognition of their services, efforts, or achievements.

  Jesus says in the scriptures  we search and think life   is in them , but its really in the Holy Spirit   of Jesus Christ &Father  that the Life is given !!!



36 "But I have a ·proof [testimony; witness] about myself that is ·greater [weightier] than that of John. [L For] The ·things [L works] I do, which are the ·things [L works] my Father gave me to ·do [complete; finish; C the signs and miracles which point to his saving work on the cross], ·prove [testify; witness] that the Father sent me.



37 And the Father himself who sent me has given ·proof [testimony; witness] ·about me [concerning me; on my behalf]. You have never heard his voice or seen ·what he looks like [his form; his outward appearance].



38 His ·teaching [word; message] does not ·live [remain; abide] in you, because you don't believe in the One the Father sent.


 39 You ·carefully study [search; examine] the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. They do in fact ·tell [testify; witness] ·about me [concerning me; on my behalf], 40 but you ·refuse [do not want] to come to me to have that life.



41 "I don't ·need [or accept; receive] ·praise [glory; honor] from people.



42 But I know you—I know that you don't have God's love in you.

43 I have come ·from my Father and speak for him [L in my Father's name], ·but [or and] you don't ·accept [receive] me. But when another person comes, ·speaking only for himself [L in his own name], you will ·accept [receive] him.



44 You try to ·get praise [receive glory/honor] from each other, but you do not try to ·get the praise [receive glory/honor] that comes from the only God. So how can you believe?



45 Don't think that I will ·stand before the Father and say you are wrong [L accuse you before the Father].


 The one who ·says you are wrong [L accuses you] is Moses, the one ·you hoped would save you [L in whom you hoped].



46 [L For] If you really believed Moses, you would believe me, because Moses wrote about me [C in the Torah, the first five books of the OT; for example, Deut. 18:15 quoted in Acts 3:22]. 47 But if you don't believe what Moses wrote, how can you believe what I say?"

 :iagree: :iagree:

You cannot find Jesus in scriptures (the old testament)
unless the Holy Spirit reveal Him.

When we read the new testament and Paul instructs ( any one Timothy)
To read and study scriptures, he telling them about the Old testament.
We know this by reading the new testament. 

I believe the great awakening of Jews and their Muslim brothers
will be when the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus the Messiah through the Old testament.
Their scriptures 

Offline eaglesway

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2014, 02:45:34 AM »
Perhaps. But perhaps it will occur when, "Every eye shall see Him, even those who pierced Him" :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline dajomaco

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2014, 07:03:11 PM »
Does it mean anything that it was the Romans who pierced him?
Either way the beauty of the Lord is visible for all to see for all eternity.

Offline RonnyTX

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2014, 06:35:52 PM »
It is always in Gods timing when he opens some one's eyes.
The only thing separating the all from being in the all is time.

Jesus conquered time, the Holy Spirit somehow made the cross the center of time.
The cross has affected the Garden(Past) and coming ages.
The cross will always have the same effect. No matter the time.
The eyes must be made to be open.

Ronny to Dajomaco:
Amen and it is God,who opens our eyes! :-) And it's God who decides the when,of when each persons eyes are opened. And oh,what a blessing it is,when God does just that, for a person! :-) And I was raised up in the local church,taught that God just did that eye opening,for a few people and at the best,God simply let the rest of humanity,go to hell. But then God showed me the truth,that what God did for even one,God will do for all! :-)

Offline RonnyTX

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2014, 06:43:54 PM »
:iagree:

On the other hand, you never know. You just never know. Remember where Apostle Paul came from.  :dsunny:

Ronny to Seth:
You mean,Paul wasn't born a Christian?! :-) Seriously though, :-) it's hard for me to understand,how some Christians can read in the Bible,how Paul was saved and yet still hold on to the belief,that it's the lost person who must save themself,because God can't do that.

Offline RonnyTX

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2014, 06:54:33 PM »
Absolutely. All things are possible with God.  :banana:

Ronny to Eaglesway:
And yet most Christians are taught to believe that,that isn't so. For the Arminian/free will side says,that God can save no one and that when a lost person is saved,it's because of something they've done. Done,out of their "free" will and not because God caused such. But,I can well understand why the Arminian/free will side,is so against the Calvinistic way of thinking and believing. And I would suppose,that for the longest of times,the only ways of believing,that most Christians knew of,was the Calvinist and the Arminian/free will side? And I can also see,why the Calvinist side,does not believe certain things,the Arminian/free will way. Both sides,looking at what's wrong,with the other sides way of thinking and believing and I think both sides,so seldom even knowing,that there is a third way of seeing things. That is,the UR way.

Offline rosered

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2014, 07:48:19 PM »
Quote
You cannot find Jesus in scriptures (the old testament)
unless the Holy Spirit reveal Him.

When we read the new testament and Paul instructs ( any one Timothy)
To read and study scriptures, he telling them about the Old testament.
We know this by reading the new testament. 

I believe the great awakening of Jews and their Muslim brothers
will be when the Holy Spirit reveals Jesus the Messiah through the Old testament.
Their scriptures 

   Exactly , but the  irony  of the scriptures is that      we are     what ?   
 Coming out of the world      to me , this is the part  that many still read  and looking to the world   for Jesus to appear   in , it will never happen this way the Scriptures      still prove many are still under the age of the Law and prophets      and the age to Come is the new      and Living way     and it is by  grace and the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the cross      that was the end of the law     for  those    whom  believ He was sent   and will come again 
  and How will He come    to them ?    , by the Spirit and truth    , this is   not expected     ,
 But the Father is seeking those  to worship Him is Sprint and truth      and these are being resurrected    now and living   though Christ    , this is the age where the new and living way and the promises of God are being fulfilled     bearing sons of God into Glory  in the earth and without end   
 
  the warning is to  know   the trap   of Babylon     
  Here we see   two different women         one is worldly still  the other comes down from heaven and     this is the time of the end when   if it were possible the very elect would be deceived   
  John the  one who was in the SPIRIT on the Lords Day     saw these two          and  gave us the sign  and distinction       
 
 Rev  17   1-4     
and there  came one of the  7 angels [messengers ]     which had the  7 vials   and talked with me !!  saying to me 
  come here   I will show you   the judgment  of the great whore   that sits on many waters [many peoples tongues and nations ]     what ? in the world and seeking the signs   of the end times    to me
 
  with the kings of the earth  have committed fornication   and inhabitants   of the earth  have been made drunk with the wine  of her  fornication
  drunk  means   riling make (water) turbulent or muddy and    unclear and    filthy     and  unclean and    unholy   they that are drunk are in the dark and night
 fighting and    For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk ... and sleep is only for such who are in darkness, and are children of the night     
and what do they do judge and   make war   with everyone and thing that does not agree with them   
 
Now compare the    Bride as the city   in Rev 21      and there came to me  one of the  7 angels [messengers ]    which has  the  7 viles   full of the  7  last plagues  and talked with me saying     
  Come here I will show you   the Bride the Lambs wife
 
 and He carried me away in the SPIRIT  to a great and High Mountain   and showed me the great City   the Holy Jerusalem      descending out  of heaven from GOD Having the glory of God  and Her Light   was like unto  a STONE  MOST PRECIOUS[ JESUS CHRIST IS THE CHIEF CORNER STONE ]     even like Jasper Stone  clear as Crystal   
 
 now John  also was carried away in the Spirit seeing the   woman  on the scarlet beast in Rev 17  and as we compare them we can see the difference here    and the Woman was  arrayed in purple   and scarlet  color   and  decked with gold   and precious stones   and pearls   having a golden cup in her hand   full of abominations   and filthiness   of her fornication   

and   for me  , these  precious things are stolen    belonging to God   they are all whom were sent  throughout the ages with warnings   and were for her to repent of her evil doings   but she never  would
 
  So the warning to any one is  TO COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE  unless you also receive   her plagues , it is the worldly    earth  systems of religious    ties that bind  us to her     and kills those under the law   as  she   just gets  bigger and   more  powerful , those thinking they are doing God a  service by KILLING
 
 and this can be  taken as literal as well as  spiritual in the new born babes in Christ ..  Saul/ Paul is our  primes example of those  not knowing the law of sin and death  and the Law of Christ is Life
 
and God bless Paul  for expounding on the differences   because his own experience  gave us  both ways of looking into it      from one end of the spectrum to the  other one ,,, 
 
  He was   Judge  and  executioner     to the new ones born of God and   they died in faith   and Jesus come to Saul / Paul in the Spirit and told him  He was persecuting HIM !!     Those new  spiritual born's were  of Jesus Christ own body !!     and Saul / Paul was  blinded   by Jesus  LIGHT   and did come out of Babylon
  Babylon was   here  from Gen 11   building Her earthly Kingdom    and rule .  the beast to me has always been the   earthly and sensual and devilish     wisdom and will   worship of mankind 
 
   Fulfilling the prophecy    that those whom see will be  blinded and those whom are blind will see the truth =  Jesus   in Isaiah 32;3   John  9;39    John 12 ;40  and   2Corinth 4;4;

 and as much as many cannot understand the Spiritual aspect of it , to me its  about being Spiritual   creatures in Christ   and by the SPIRIT OF TRUTH will all these things come to pass   by the WORD OF GOD /TRUTH .
and   all will be  partakers of this mighty  work of God  one way or the other     
 
 
 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline Shev

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2014, 08:24:21 PM »
Amen Rose - brilliantly written!  :dsunny:

Offline dajomaco

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2014, 09:38:18 PM »
all will be  partakers of this mighty  work of God  one way or the other 

 :iagree:

Offline rosered

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Re: What is salvation?
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2014, 10:25:09 PM »
 

  Gods Spirit and blessings to all  the brothers and sisters in Christ !!
  He is saving   us now   
 
 
  something that keeps coming to mind  is the scriptures 
  to the pure all things are pure      Titus 1              and  I love that , isn't that awesome!!  kathros     purified by the fire!!blameless, innocent  clean  ,purified

- Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Matthew 5: 8    God is that consuming fire

   seeing in Matt  5  Jesus is telling us how to become pure    and perfect in   seeing God 
 and can only be done by Being in the Spirit and truth    and that is Loving God first     this obedience    has reward 
 I know we cannot stay in this  all the time ,  while  being flesh and blood , but by the Spirit  we get to taste  it !   and it will do till we can     be   in  this  for good !


 the pure know God is judging righteously         I love it that  Jesus said neither do I judge you    He said you judge according to the flesh I judge no man     , He knew God was looking for   seeking those    to worship Him in Spirit and truth and   it is now    just as much as it was than when written ,       His Law judges rightly     and He is the one who set it in place     ,     first in stone     was not our hearts stony at first ?   and now in  flesh hearts of flesh Jesus flesh   the glorified kind  of flesh not all flesh is the same flesh !! 
 Titus 1 Expanded Bible (EXB)

1 From Paul, a ·servant [slave; bondservant] of God and an ·apostle [messenger] of Jesus Christ. I was sent ·to help [or in the service of; or to bring about] the faith of God's ·chosen people [elect] and to help them know the truth that ·shows people how to serve God [or leads to godliness/piety].


 2 That faith and that knowledge ·come from [or lead to] the ·hope for [confidence/certainty of] ·life forever [eternal life], which God, who never lies, promised to us before ·time began [L eternal times].


 3 At ·the right [the appointed; his own] time God ·let the world know about that life [L revealed/manifested his word/message] through preaching. He ·trusted [entrusted] me with that work by the command of God our Savior.

4 To Titus [2 Cor. 2:13; 7:6; 8:16; Gal. 2:1–3], my ·true [genuine] child in the faith we share:

Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.

Titus' Work in Crete        this word Crete     has a powerful  spiritual message  and meaning  to me ,     It was a Greek Island off   the Mediterranean   and  a 1000 cities
 surrounded by  land   all around  it , is this not just like our own  physical  bodies ?
Dictionaries - Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary - Crete
Crete    bible meanings

carnal; fleshly


5 I left you in Crete [C an island in the Mediterranean southeast of Greece] so you could ·finish doing [organize; straighten out] the things that still needed to be done and so you could appoint elders in every ·town [city], as I directed you.

 6 An elder [1 Tim. 3:1–7] must ·not be guilty of doing wrong [be blameless], must ·have only one wife [or be faithful to his wife], and must have ·believing [or faithful] children. They must not be ·known as children who are [accused of being] ·wild [reckless] and ·do not cooperate [unruly; undisciplined; rebellious].

 7 As God's ·managers [stewards], overseers [C probably the same church office as elder; 1 Tim. 3:1, 6, 7; 5:17] must be ·innocent of wrongdoing [blameless], ·unselfish [not arrogant/self-willed], not ·quick-tempered [easily angered]. They must not ·drink too much wine [be a drunkard], ·like to fight [be violent/a brawler], or ·try to get rich by cheating others [be greedy for gain/dishonest in business].

 8 Overseers must be ·ready to welcome guests [hospitable], love what is good, be ·wise [self-controlled; sensible], ·live right [upright; just], and be ·holy [devout] and ·self-controlled [disciplined].

9 By holding ·on [firmly] to the ·trustworthy [faithful] ·word [message] just as it was taught to them, overseers can ·encourage [exhort] people with ·true [sound; healthy] teaching, and they can ·correct [reprove; refute] those who are against it.

10 There are many ·people who refuse to cooperate [unruly/rebellious people], who talk about ·worthless [empty; useless] things and ·lead others into the wrong way [deceive others]—·mainly [especially] those ·who insist on circumcision to be saved [or among the Jewish Christians; L of the circumcision].


 11 These people must be ·stopped [L silenced], because they are ·upsetting [misleading; ruining; overthrowing] whole families by teaching things they should not teach, which they do ·to get rich by cheating people [for dishonest gain].

 12 Even one of their own prophets said, "Cretans are always liars, evil ·animals [beasts], and lazy ·people who do nothing but eat [gluttons; C a quote from Epimenides, a poet from Crete (sixth century bc)]."

 13 ·The words that prophet said are [L This testimony is] true. So ·firmly [severely; sharply] ·tell those people they are wrong [rebuke/admonish them] so they may become ·strong [sound; healthy] in the faith,


 14 not ·accepting [paying attention to; wasting time with] Jewish ·false stories [myths; 1 Tim. 1:4; 4:7; 2 Tim. 4:4] and the commands of people who ·reject [turn their backs on] the truth.

 15 To those who are pure, all things are pure, but to those who are ·full of sin [defiled; polluted (with sin)] and ·do not believe [unfaithful], nothing is pure.

 Both their minds and their consciences have been ·ruined [defiled; polluted]. 16 They ·say [claim; confess] they know God, but their actions show they ·do not

accept [deny] him. They are ·hateful people [detestable; abominable], they refuse to obey, and they are ·useless [unfit; disqualified] for doing anything good.

 
 
 I am amazed        this rightly dividing the Word of truth        to the   worldly    still    and to the holy ones     still to this day   
 
 
 Gods Word does not change     , but it does change us !!
Jesus is the reward  !!