Author Topic: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)  (Read 7808 times)

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Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #100 on: January 06, 2014, 11:48:14 PM »
Quote from: Sheila
there is a very high spiritual principle..of holding all things in common..sharing our clothing,bread

with our fellowman..of working with our own hands in order to have something to give to

 thse who have nothing.  Actually it is because of Jesus Christ and the works of Him and His Father

 that we partake...and so,too, this priciple..like leavening in the kingdom applies till all is leavened.

  are we to make those who have nothing  ashamed?

Your phraseology is interesting, not wrong, but just interesting. I think it's right to equate those who God has saved from sin and transgressions to those who do not have bread, for the bread of life is Jesus Christ.

So the question is "are we to make those who have nothing ashamed?" No, but they will be anyway. You see, lacking spiritual bread is not the same as lacking physical bread. Those who lack physical bread and are physically weak should be cared for as they need. But those who lack spiritual bread appear to be strong in the world.

Hitler, for example, had nothing, no bread. He was hungry and weak and had nothing. But he thought he was filled, and strong and had everything.

Hebrews 12:6,11
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.



Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #101 on: January 07, 2014, 12:58:23 AM »
to the starving every bitter thing is sweet....

  you do not put new wine in old wineskins...........the old man Adam..in all of us..pales[horse death]

  in death.  But He says..My people shall not be ashamed.  Joel 2;26  You will have plenty to eat

 til you are full,and you will praise the name of the Lord your God,who has worked

wonders for you; never again,will my people be shamed.

 

   

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #102 on: January 07, 2014, 01:25:38 AM »
"My people", yes. I agree.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #103 on: May 07, 2014, 07:14:44 PM »
 :cloud9: Just stumbled across this thread. Love it!

My  :2c: Something He quickened to me yesterday tying together some scriptures I had never seen as "going together" before.....

Man shall not live by bread/dry dead letter alone, but by every word/Spirit breathed that comes from the mouth of God. The Father is Spirit and what He speaks He speaks via the Spirit.

The proceeding word that is His breath, His personal from-the-Spirit-word of instruction, is as the former rain.

Following the former rain, there is always a time of testing, a time of walking through the fire that dries up everything, a time of NOT SEEING the promise, just like the promised Seed was buried and not seen, and all hope APPEARED to be lost. This is where we must mix faith with the proceeding word/former rain, during the time of "drought" where we can't tangibly see what He said would come to pass.

After this time of testing in the fire, then comes the latter rain. The latter rain is the promise fulfilled, the MANIFESTATION of that which was believed for and performed according to the instruction given in the former rain word. This is the resurrection of the seed (former rain) that was promised, the hope revealed.

For this reason, He said, one plants (HIM giving you a proceeding word of life), another waters, (YOU mixing what was said WITH FAITH), but GOD gives the increase (latter rain, the promise resurrected and revealed).

I've shared this before, but this principle is how He healed me of terminal cancer (and other things). I was diagnosed after I started hemorrhaging buckets. I went for prayer to a friend that I KNEW from many years of past experiences, could hear. My proceeding word of life from the Father's mouth came through her. It was, "God won't even let me pray against it, He said it's been taken care of, you're not to worry about it."

I believed God, I mixed that word with faith. His faith is the measure of faith He gives all men to receive Him. Receiving Him is not a one time event. Receiving Him is anything and everything He does when He appears in the times of refreshing that we were told would come. Did you hear Him about something that day? That's receiving Him. Did you feel His joy raise up in you? That's receiving Him. Did you feel His love for the unlovable and therefore know it was not "you" but Him? That's receiving Him. You "make room" in the Inn of your heart for Him.

I've never known Him to speak anything He didn't then perform. I'd seen it too many times, so my faith really didn't require much (in one way to look at it), because I knew that if He spoke it, He would perform it, else there would be no reason for Him to speak it.

So for the time between Him speaking the proceeding word of life, and the manifested healing, I had only to command my body to line up (I was still hemorrhaging) with the word of God (proceeding word that was spoken, not the letter), and to call my carnal mind a liar and command it beneath His feet in me (every enemy has to go beneath His feet, our mind is no exception).

I had lost my mother the same way only 2 short years before and my mind and the enemy of our soul, was trying hard to make me look at the generation curse, and receive death into myself. This was the period of fire and testing, where the promise was not seen.

The manifestation/resurrection of the promise from that which was not seen into that which was seen, was the Lord bringing the latter rain, ie. the seed that was planted and watered, was given increase and it burst forth through the parched earth into newness of life. Blessings....



« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 07:20:26 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #104 on: May 07, 2014, 07:18:44 PM »
 :thumbsup:   :HeartThrob:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #105 on: May 07, 2014, 07:25:16 PM »
 :cloud9: Thanks Seth. Anybody else out there feel like it's going to start raining soon?   :laughing7: :banana:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #106 on: May 07, 2014, 07:25:51 PM »
 :thumbsup:  Becca.....Jesus too,when He lay in the tomb..it appeared unto all...that He was unfruitful...that death had overcom him.

   especially today..in these times..it appears evil has 'won' out...but we that have faith,know differently!! we wait for it!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #107 on: May 07, 2014, 07:36:26 PM »
 :cloud9: Amen and amen. Bring the rain, Lord....."this"  :dsunny: was  :flamebreath:, and for sure we need the rain of Your presence.  :banana: :laughing7:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #108 on: May 07, 2014, 07:49:38 PM »
you know where it's written all flesh is as grass..the sun shines on it and it withers....itis here today and tomorrow thrown in the

 oven .grains/wheat/barley etc are 'grasses'...that are thrown in the oven[made into bread]  just as we eat/chew/digest

  the examples in the scriptures of men on the earth before us. So too,many that rise daily[daily sacrifices] that have left this abode

   learn by watching us[full of eyes in the wheels/wings]  Paul said we become a spectacle..and such we are.  they see

 us,ourstruggles with sin[the very things they have wrestled with,also] in this evil exercize......for this reasn they can not become

  perfect apart from us[spirits of just men made perfect]

Offline eaglesway

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2014, 02:04:13 AM »
The patient husbandman waits for the early and the latter rains.......first the shoot, then the stalk, then the full head.


Therefore we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as a lamp sining in a dark place until the day dawns and the mornng star arises in your hearts.

Awake O Sleeper! Arise from the dead and the light of Christ will shine upon you.

Arise oh Lord to Your tabernacle, You and the ark of Your strength. Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness and Your godly ones sing for joy!
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #110 on: February 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM »
Just wanted to add some scriptures to show how I believe Paul incorporated the Hebrew understanding of enumah into his writing:

2 Thess 2
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be judged (krino) who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Believed not the truth….but had pleasure in unrighteousness. In other words, if they believed the truth, they would naturally cease having pleasure in unrighteousness. I think Paul is showing that he did not separate obedience from belief, because to him, belief went further than acknowledging an intellectual proposition of truth. The reason they weren't saved (sozo - healed) from sin is NOT that they denied that Christ existed, or died and was resurrected. They received not a LOVE of the truth. When you have a love for something, you naturally act in accordance with it. The word "perish" is from the word "appolumi" meaning "lost." If they had LOVE for the truth, they would have ceased to have pleasure in unrighteousness and would not be lost to sin. The two go hand in hand.

In other words, when you truly go from unbelief to belief, you naturally proceed from despising the truth through actions to LOVING it through action. I think this scripture clarifies even more:

Titus 1
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


That's PAUL! That's the supposed "faith alone" guy, who Gentiles love to say is their guy, and not James, into whose writing Martin Luther inserted the word "alone" into Romans 4 where it never belonged. We've had some interesting discussions on the forum about how James' writing integrates with Paul's writing. I actually think that this above scripture is even MORE provocative than "faith without works is dead" while essentially confirming the same thing.

They profess to know him, but in works DENY him. Faith without works is dead. What's the difference? No difference that I can see.

When Martin Luther visited Rome he saw the abuse of the Catholic Church and their understanding of works-based salvation (i.e. observe OUR traditions as an expression of James' and Paul's words) and rightfully rejected it. To them, those were the works that save all mixed in with the false teaching of Hell and DISTRACTED from the Biblical teaching of salvation from sin.

So, Luther swung the pendulum the other way, and I believe likewise missed the point. Still believing in salvation from Hell, his understanding was that salvation from Hell had nothing to do with works, but "faith alone." All the while, I am sure he would agree that nobody could be saved from a sinful lifestyle without a modicum of actual obedience to compliment their faith, if only to cease in their former ways as inspired by God.

In Apostle John's writing he said that God's commandments are to believe in Jesus….and love your neighbor. Two commandments for mankind. Anything BEYOND these is legalism, and anything SHORT is sin, in my opinion.







« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 09:30:35 PM by Seth »

Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #111 on: February 27, 2015, 10:09:59 PM »
...what if ...in works they deny Him..means this.......they go back to salvation of works by the law?

[mixture]   what if they profess him..but refuse to believe His 'work's' on the cross bringing atonement

 and taking away  all their sin...did not fulfill the law.  what if the works they denied Him in,was

 freely forgiving their brother his sin,as his was?

    Paul said. I do that which I desire not? so he loved and agreed in his mind with the righteousness

   but sin's law in his flesh[sin in flesh condemned/Grace/God not counting that against them]

   Jesus says what defiles a man..is what comes out of his heart...again motive..

   deceivableness of unrighteousness v 7..for the SECRET POWER OF LAWLESSNESS IS ALREADY

  AT WORK;[sin's law=body undergoing this death,due to sin's sting] satan deceived sin entered all men   

BUT THE ONE WHO NOW HOLDS IT BACK WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO UNTIL HE IS TAKEN

 OUT OF THE WAY[consumed with the breath of His coming]and we are changed[garmets]

   

   
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 10:20:40 PM by sheila »

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #112 on: February 27, 2015, 10:24:08 PM »
I think we can determine that by looking at the context:

Titus 1
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


They profess to know God but in works they deny him. Being DISOBEDIENT.

"And these are his commandments, believe in Jesus and love thy neighbor." So simple.

Quote
Paul said. I do that which I desire not?

If you look at the context it shows that this was only true when he attempted to attain righteousness UNDER THE LAW. Paul always taught us not to do that, and if we do, we are fallen from grace which according to him in Titus 2: "grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING (paiduo - chastening) us to deny ungodliness and live sober lives in this present age." :HeartThrob:

Quote
...what if ...in works they deny Him..means this.......they go back to salvation of works by the law?

If they go back to the Law, "the motions of sin" will reassert themselves.

Romans 7
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


The motions of sin by the Law. Sin taking advantage by the commandment to become exceeding sinful, so that sin be recognized as sin. Grace comes to deliver us from sin. So, if they go back to the Law, they will naturally become, as Paul said "unto every good work, reprobate."

« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 10:35:23 PM by Seth »

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #113 on: February 27, 2015, 10:37:31 PM »
Quote
what if the works they denied Him in,was

 freely forgiving their brother his sin,as his was? freely forgiving their brother his sin,as his was?

When Paul kicked the man, who was sleeping with his father's wife, out of the company of believers, he did so not on the basis of belief in Christ, and not because the man was a Judaizer. He did it because the man was sleeping with his father's wife. "Unto every good work, reprobate." Not obedient. Professing God with his mouth and denying him with his works.

The commandment, do not covet, is a good one. But under the Law we become lawless to it. By walking according to the Spirit we become lawful without the Law, and thus saved from covetousness.

That irony is what I think perplexed many about Paul's writing.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 11:01:16 PM by Seth »

Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #114 on: February 27, 2015, 11:25:12 PM »
 the cretens being discussed were  'circumcision groups,geneologists/ascetics,myths[jewish] scruples

 against things God declared to be good." He was rebuked,he did repent,and was forgiven...Paul

  said..'if there was anything to forgive"Corinth[Greece also]  I can't imagine circumcision group

  having that attitude. However someone not under the law[with commandments to not uncover the

nakedness of your Father's bed] might.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2015, 11:32:26 PM »
Mat_4:17  From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 Repent...to change ones mind....think differently. In my opinion the word repent is understood today as feeling sorry or saying one is sorry.
In my opinion when one repents they think differently and those carnal thoughts once harbored are now put behind and one sees differently....a different thinking, a mind change, one realizes His Grace and Grace works... which ignites Faith..Grace and Faith produces good works and the strength to standfast, therefore. This just my small window for my understanding. :2c:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2015, 11:34:11 PM »
the cretens being discussed were  'circumcision groups,geneologists/ascetics,myths[jewish] scruples

 against things God declared to be good." He was rebuked,he did repent,and was forgiven...Paul

  said..'if there was anything to forgive"Corinth[Greece also]  I can't imagine circumcision group

  having that attitude. However someone not under the law[with commandments to not uncover the

nakedness of your Father's bed] might.

The Cretans were Greek. I think Paul was revealing the hypocrisy in the ranks of the circumcision to preach the Law but as much as their prophets were correctly identifying Cretins, they themselves were following in step with their reprobate nature: "liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."

The reason someone under the Law might practice the work of forgiveness is because they are under the teaching and behavior modification of Grace as in Titus 2.

Again that irony about being made lawful, while not under the Law by walking according to Spirit.



Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2015, 11:35:32 PM »
maybe even boasting of it[not under law/no law against love[evidently the man's love for his Father's

  wife[ex problably through being sent away with certificate of divorce/which was allowed by Moses

  due to hardness of heart..so that she could become another's] to the pure all things pure. :dontknow:

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2015, 11:41:41 PM »
I'm not sure I understood your meaning there, but I believe "to the pure all things are pure" means that their MIND and consciences are pure.

It's like what Micah said, repentance, a changing of the mind.

When the mind is pure, the works follow, and salvation is fully realized. When the mind is pure, the actions can't help but also be pure, just like Jesus.

Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2015, 11:52:27 PM »
what I meant was the man;s conscience trying to justify himself......the reason for boasting about it

   [free from law]  the man in good conscience thought since he was no longer under law[touch not]

  that he could take the divorced wife of his father if he loved her.[sin being exceedingly sinful

 when the commandment come[love],decieved him and put him to death

Offline sheila

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2015, 11:54:40 PM »
re; 'I'm not sure I understand your meaning there"  lol!  That's alright,Seth...Same here for this whole

  thread! 

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #121 on: February 27, 2015, 11:58:33 PM »
what I meant was the man;s conscience trying to justify himself......the reason for boasting about it

   [free from law]  the man in good conscience thought since he was no longer under law[touch not]

  that he could take the divorced wife of his father if he loved her.[sin being exceedingly sinful

 when the commandment come[love],decieved him and put him to death

Oh ok, thanks for clarification. Yeah I could see that being his rationalization. Paul doesn't go into much detail about it, other than they were boasting about sin, or perhaps tolerating it under the illusion that being freed from the Law results in sanctioned lawlessness. I think Paul taught opposite.

Offline Seth

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #122 on: February 28, 2015, 12:55:08 AM »
re; 'I'm not sure I understand your meaning there"  lol!  That's alright,Seth...Same here for this whole

  thread!

Sorry if I am unclear. My main point is that the Jewish understanding of faith is that of faithfulness, where works come naturally to the believers and where the two are inseparable, unlike what I was raised to understand.

Offline dajomaco

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Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Reply #123 on: February 28, 2015, 09:34:42 PM »
Mat_4:17  From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 Repent...to change ones mind....think differently. In my opinion the word repent is understood today as feeling sorry or saying one is sorry.
In my opinion when one repents they think differently and those carnal thoughts once harbored are now put behind and one sees differently....a different thinking, a mind change, one realizes His Grace and Grace works... which ignites Faith..Grace and Faith produces good works and the strength to standfast, therefore. This just my small window for my understanding. :2c:

 :iagree:
agree repentance means to turn around take a new route.
Our minds are so self-centered.
We believe we are the important one in our relationship with God.
Jesus is the important one. It is all about what he has done for us.
The more we are conscience of what he has done the more freedom we have to praise him.
The less we think about what we are doing to please God,
 the more we are able to truly sacrifice ourselves to the cause of Christ.
The y will know us by our LOVE