Author Topic: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.  (Read 660 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« on: December 18, 2014, 08:27:12 AM »
Hebrew poetry does not use rhyming words but rhyming ideas. Complementary or duplicate descriptions are written in parallel, line by line. This adds helpful insights for translation through word equivalence, and interpretation of difficult phrases by comparison with an easier to understand parallel phrase.
More about that principle can be found here. (click)



Psalm 35:5 May they be like chaff before the wind, with the angel of the LORD driving them away;

Chaff=them
Wind= angel of the Lord=HS

What we call HS is holy breath (effect) or holy wind in Hebrew.
So.... HS is also an angel
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 09:15:53 AM »
 :thumbsup:...of which the Lord will consume with the breath of his coming.........

Offline rosered

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 02:15:28 PM »
 :thumbsup:  WW
 
  :thumbsup: Sheila
 
 
 Psalms 34 6 This poor man cried, and the LORD heard him And saved him out of all his troubles.


 7The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him,

 And rescues them.



 8O taste and see that the LORD is good;




How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!
 
  the  poor in spirit   and humbled of God will be    "lifted up / resurrected from the low place to a higher place "'    and taste Life     which is Gods goodness and protection   though salvation
 
 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline Tom

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 07:39:59 PM »
Hebrew poetry does not use rhyming words but rhyming ideas. Complementary or duplicate descriptions are written in parallel, line by line. This adds helpful insights for translation through word equivalence, and interpretation of difficult phrases by comparison with an easier to understand parallel phrase.
More about that principle can be found here. (click)



Psalm 35:5 May they be like chaff before the wind, with the angel of the LORD driving them away;

Chaff=them
Wind= angel of the Lord=HS

What we call HS is holy breath (effect) or holy wind in Hebrew.
So.... HS is also an angel

I don't see it like that, bro. The word "holy" from the Hebrew "quodesh" and the Greek "hagion" means "set apart." The word "spirit" from the Hebrew "ruach" and the Greek "pneuma," literally "blow-effect," is by implication the imperceptible power of life. "Holy spirit" is the power of God that generated the Christ child in the virgin Mary (Matthew 1:18), inspired the authors of the scriptures (2 Peter 1:21), and lives in us believers (1 Corinthians 3:16). The Hebrew "ruach" and the Greek "pneuma" can also mean a blast of wind, but, when they're used in the context of "spirit," I think they mean the power of God not an "angel" or celestial "messenger." I stopped believing in the Trinity quite a while ago. So I think the only way you could try to personify "holy spirit" would be to say it's the Father. "God is spirit" (John 4:24). I don't believe "holy spirit" is any creature, including a celestial "messenger," or a third person in a mythical godhead established by Roman doctrine for political expediency. It seems to me that Psalms 35:5 is making a figurative comparison not saying the "messenger of Yahweh" is literally the wind. 

Offline micah7:9

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 07:43:10 PM »
 :iagree:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 08:29:34 PM »
You make a lot of assumptions Tom.
I didn't write or mean anything trinity related because I don't believe in a trinity.
Neither did I write it's a creature.
Neither did I write HS is literally the wind. You may click the link to get a better understanding.
Not all messengers are the same. Like all cows are animals, but not all animals are cows.

I think wind in many cases being symbolic for HS is well established in the OT. And in the NT the HS is the messenger between groom and bride.
That Psalms is in rhyme format is also well accepted. Ps 35:5 is no exception.

Wind is certainly associated with life. Just check Gen 6:17

So, I stick to my  :2c:
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 08:34:08 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Tom

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2014, 09:20:46 PM »
You said, "Wind= angel of the Lord=HS

What we call HS is holy breath (effect) or holy wind in Hebrew.
So.... HS is also an angel"

"Holy spirit" manifested as a blast of "wind" is in the so called New Testament too, brother, and any "angel" or "messenger" is a creature. The only reason the Trinity came up is because it is a popular personification of "holy spirit." I agree with you when you say, "Not all messengers are the same." There are human "messengers" and celestial "messengers." That's why it's better to translate the Greek "aggelos" as "messenger" rather than "angel." I was simply saying that I don't think "holy spirit" is any kind of "messenger" because I think it is the power of God.   

Offline Pig

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2015, 01:56:41 AM »
Chaff=them
Wind= angel of the Lord=HS

What we call HS is holy breath (effect) or holy wind in Hebrew.
So.... HS is also an angel

Cool. WhiteWings.  You have stumbled upon the Hebrew hermeneutic and used it almost right.  The wind is a symbol of the Angel of the Lord.  THe wind is also the symbol for the Holy spirit, so the Angel of the Lord is the Holy Spirit. Those who disagree are using the Greek hermeneutic.   There is one more step in identifying the מלאך יהוה  'malak yahweh' or 'angel of the Lord' or 'messenger of the Lord'. 

Who is Malachi referring to?

Mal 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he [is] the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Whoever that is is also the Angel of the Lord.

Disagreements often arise because the methods of interpretation are different.

The word מלאך means 'angel', 'messenger' and 'ambassador'. The primary metaphor is 'the one who is separated, yet joined' represented by the aleph  א to the 'king' מלך. 

Nice to meet you.


Offline eaglesway

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2015, 09:23:06 AM »
NET Bible
He makes the winds his messengers, and the flaming fire his attendant.

KJ2000
Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

The wind blows where it wills and you hear the sound of it but you don't know from whence it comes or whither it goes- so it is with everyone who is born of the spirit
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. www.hellisamyth.com

Offline rosered

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2015, 12:49:52 PM »

 
  I   really loved this  :HeartThrob:    Breath of Life !!! :goodpost:  Everyone ,   Lots to consider     here ,,, Love being able to think  in more than just one way about things ...


 I have seen  animals with the" breath of life " spirit in them   being on a farm , its common    to see life and death   often  , and the minute the  breath leaves  them  , their  eyes change into deep pools of blackness
 and the corpse is  separated from that breath of life    that basically  carried them / animated /spirited  movement
 It also causes new cells to grow rapidly   , keeping the  whole  being  renewed   daily
 and when that leaves   all the cells  breakdown and decay
 
 I just wonder what a spiritual  being without flesh and blood  , but a glorified body  is  or looks like ?
    I don't think a moral man can see   the  spiritual realm   
 Yet ,I do believe in a spiritual realm   hidden from the eyes of mankind  does exist !!     who has ""a breath of life "in them as the token/tiny  portion   of the" Holy Spirit "in them from   the GREAT  UNCONTAINED  pure  ONE "    who does keep the mortal one  alive   ,    being the container   ,  for what it really   is  inside   that counts  ,   that is gathered back into  what it always was    , just apart  or separated from what was always  here  and called GOD  !    :HeartThrob:
 
 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline CHB

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 07:45:17 PM »
I believe the Holy Spirit is of God Himself. It is the Power of God. I don't believe an angel can give life.

CHB

Offline sheila

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2015, 07:57:59 PM »
idkat..CHB.....Paul raised the dead..surely he was as an angel[messenger] sent from the Lord..........same as Elijah.....

   if He used men to minister in this way[as gifts to the body in men] what would prevent Him from using His angels in heaven in this way.?

Offline CHB

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2015, 09:02:28 PM »
Sure an angel is a messenger but is he a life giver? I don't think so. Paul didn't raise the dead, God did. God breathed into man and he became a living soul. Paul, and the rest were just a vessel that God used but it was by the power of God that people were brought back to life, or was given life.:2c:

CHB

Offline sheila

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2015, 09:14:46 PM »
  Right.....God did...do you think God is not in the holy angels vessels too?   for the children of the resurrection are like the angels..the

children of God.

Offline Tom

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2015, 09:30:26 PM »
I agree that holy spirit is the power of God that's been personalized mostly as a result of the doctrine of the Trinity which I don't believe. I believe holy spirit generated the Christ child in the virgin Mary; inspired the authors of the ancient scriptures; and empowers us believers to share God's evangel with our brothers and sisters on the planet.

Offline CHB

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 09:31:55 PM »
  Right.....God did...do you think God is not in the holy angels vessels too?   for the children of the resurrection are like the angels..the

children of God.

I believe God can use whatever or whomever he wants to accomplish his purpose but it all comes from God. It all originates from God. The Holy Spirit is from God but if God wants to go through a human or angel to accomplish something with it I guess he can. What I am saying is, "I don't believe the Holy Spirit is a human or a spirit being, it is the power of God, that he uses to accomplish his purpose in the world".

CHB

 

Offline sheila

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 09:43:18 PM »
...then who are the two son's of oil?  I will not leave you as orphans.......... 1 Cor ch 12

Offline sheila

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 11:02:17 PM »
 Matthew 8;7-13  for I myself  am a man under authority,with soldiers under me. "I tell this one 'go' and he goes..that one

   'come' and he comes."

   p.s.  not debating with you CHB...just want to share what I see... :friendstu:

Offline CHB

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2015, 01:25:30 AM »
Same here.  :Peace2: I don't understand what you are getting at about the sons of oil or the centurion? I don't understand what this has to do with either of them being the Holy Spirit? Just asking?

CHB

Offline sheila

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2015, 02:41:44 AM »
Zechariah 4...what do you see?  I answered, 'I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lights on it,with

  seven channels to the lights. Also,there are TWO olive trees,one on the right of the bowl and the other on the left.

  WHAT are these?.......again  I asked...what are these two olive trees on the right and left of the lampstand? Again I asked what

  are these two olive branches beside the golden pipes that pour out the golden oil?  He replied.'Do you not know what these are?

  No My Lord,I said.  So he said...'THESE ARE THE TWO WHO ARE ANOINTED TO SERVE THE LORD OF ALL THE EARTH

   
   John ch 16;5  the work of the Holy spirit   v 7 Unless I go away the counselor will not come to you,but if I go I will send

  him to you... v 12  I have much more to say to you,much more than you can now bear.. BUT,WHEN HE,THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH COMES

  HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH

   1 Cor 14;32  the spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets


       the centurion had grasped Jesus authority over those under Him. He reckonized this as a man who had authority over others...

      and being himself under authority.   what I'm trying to say is there are positions of authority in the heavenly kingdom.

   the disciples knew this also...the sons of thunder very own mother approached Jesus to try and secure such positions for her

  son's. Jesus said' Ye know not what ye request..they are not mine to give..they are for those whom they were prepared for"

    God places such  in their order/places.  The spirit of truth is just that....one of the two anointed olive trees......

   Jesus is on the right hand of the Father and the other anointed..Holy spirit/Spirit of Truth is on His left.

   and at the mouth of two or three wittnesses..let every matter be established.

   these two have authority.they have myriads who serve under them..heavenly hosts and men on earth

   

 

Offline micah7:9

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2015, 04:07:33 PM »
  Right.....God did...do you think God is not in the holy angels vessels too?   for the children of the resurrection are like the angels..the

children of God.

I believe God can use whatever or whomever he wants to accomplish his purpose but it all comes from God. It all originates from God. The Holy Spirit is from God but if God wants to go through a human or angel to accomplish something with it I guess he can. What I am saying is, "I don't believe the Holy Spirit is a human or a spirit being, it is the power of God, that he uses to accomplish his purpose in the world".

CHB
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline rosered

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Re: The Holy Spirit is also an angel.
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2015, 04:17:20 PM »
  Right.....God did...do you think God is not in the holy angels vessels too?   for the children of the resurrection are like the angels..the

children of God.

I believe God can use whatever or whomever he wants to accomplish his purpose but it all comes from God. It all originates from God. The Holy Spirit is from God but if God wants to go through a human or angel to accomplish something with it I guess he can. What I am saying is, "I don't believe the Holy Spirit is a human or a spirit being, it is the power of God, that he uses to accomplish his purpose in the world".

CHB
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
   
 
 Being a power  or force   that teaches and comforts and also  conceives  Christ in the Holy Spirit , I can see this as a power of God , but  so much more than  just a power
I think we try to  put limits  on the limitless   
 
 I COR 23but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Jesus is the reward  !!