Author Topic: Lucifer/ADAM  (Read 11968 times)

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Offline thinktank

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2011, 03:25:17 AM »
Do you think then that Adam is very much like Christ --

So with that base, does that mean you entertain the idea that human Christ could have failed, just like Adam?


I think what your saying is that Adam is infallible, because hes made in Gods image, therefore sacrificed himself to save Eve.

I guess the fallibility is based on two weaknesses

1. Adams image is not the same quality AS cHRISTS. A bit like the difference between 22karat gold and 18 karat gold, Christ is perfection ,but
2. Christ was fallible, and therefore Adam in his image is also fallible (Maybe Jesus Christ being the Son the first born is fallible, due to his inexperience as a God  :dontknow:
3. Micahs theory  :bigGrin: that Adam was not immediately made in Gods image, but a prophetic word of promise that is being processed through the dispensations of time, so in Adams time the image was that of incompletion.
4. Something else not thought of, beyond thinktank

I think its number 1, since Adam did not have knowledge of good and evil.

I predict micah will pick number 3  and Molly number 0 :laughing7:



Offline micah7:9

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2011, 05:19:20 AM »
:cloud9: I totally understand what you are saying. But......what he did was "good", which is STILL eating of the wrong tree, which produces death. We can have a right motive, but if the Lord didn't tell us to do something, it still produces death. IF the Lord by His breath had told him to do it, there would have been no sin.

He was perceiving thru a glass darkly (darkened soul) what the Lord does, in the laying down of life. It's the same thing as doing good works without faith (which comes from the Spirit speaking), which still is death, or death-producing.

Every think about the fact the VEIL had winged (which means feathers, a type of covering) cherubims woven into it by His decree? Blessings....

the veil having wings woven into it.....images of what lay within......

Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Through the veil, as we enfold the hope of eternal life, seeing things eye and ear cannot perceive, in the spirit of wisdom and revelation, speaking the hidden wisdom, breaking bread with hidden manna, sharing in the sufferings if Christ, staedfastly beholding the image within and being transformed, with ever-increasing glory, by the Spirit, who is the Lord!

Very well said! You do have a way with words my friend! :HeartThrob:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2011, 05:54:58 AM »


What is this "Mind of Christ" the Scriptures speak of?

Does It, also, see through the glass darkly?









Offline Molly

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2011, 06:02:17 AM »
The glass is a mirror.

So, consider this.

You are looking into a darkened mirror.

And you can't quite make out the reflection.

But, someday, you will see the reflection clearly,

and it will be christ.



The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' [Mat 25:40]

« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 06:05:26 AM by Molly »

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2011, 06:05:29 AM »
Fallen Angels

And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.[Jude 1:6


Corrupted Revelation perverted into man-made religions.



Alas! the Book of Enoch.

...let alone Protestantism and Catholicism.






Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #80 on: November 14, 2011, 06:08:42 AM »
The glass is a mirror.

So, consider this.

You are looking into a darkened mirror.

And you can't quite make out the reflection.

But, someday, you will see the reflection clearly,

and it will be christ.



The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' [Mat 25:40]


The refiners fire...
Gold only reflects when it is pure!


THEN...
We see Ourselves in His Image!


Behold! He looks like Me!




!



Offline micah7:9

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2011, 06:23:57 AM »


What is this "Mind of Christ" the Scriptures speak of?

Does It, also, see through the glass darkly?

"What is this "Mind of Christ" the Scriptures speak of?" Beloved Servant

CRYSTAL AS IN UNBEARABLY CLEAR!

"Does It, also, see through the glass darkly?"

NO! There is no darkness of light, there is no light brighter, I know there is a verse of scripture that says this, I cannot find the words to find it. The Christ does not know what a blurred vision could even possibly be. There are NO shadows in His Vision.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2011, 07:05:22 AM »
Do you think then that Adam is very much like Christ --

So with that base, does that mean you entertain the idea that human Christ could have failed, just like Adam?


I think what your saying is that Adam is infallible, because hes made in Gods image, therefore sacrificed himself to save Eve.

I guess the fallibility is based on two weaknesses

1. Adams image is not the same quality AS cHRISTS. A bit like the difference between 22karat gold and 18 karat gold, Christ is perfection ,but
2. Christ was fallible, and therefore Adam in his image is also fallible (Maybe Jesus Christ being the Son the first born is fallible, due to his inexperience as a God  :dontknow:
3. Micahs theory  :bigGrin: that Adam was not immediately made in Gods image, but a prophetic word of promise that is being processed through the dispensations of time, so in Adams time the image was that of incompletion.
4. Something else not thought of, beyond thinktank

I think its number 1, since Adam did not have knowledge of good and evil.

I predict micah will pick number 3  and Molly number 0 :laughing7:

I hate to inject the idea of free will, but I must, because it is a key to understanding all that God has done :o)  Adam failed, through the exercise of a free will, Christ could have failed, but did not, through the exercise of a free will.

It is written in the volume of the book of me, I come to do Thy will O God!

This is the glorious liberty of the sons of God......many sons unto glory, perfected as their Captain was perfected- learning obedience through the things they suffer.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #83 on: November 14, 2011, 07:09:41 AM »

I hate to inject the idea of free will

me too   :laugh2:   :rolllol:


 :HeartThrob:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #84 on: November 14, 2011, 07:11:54 AM »


What is this "Mind of Christ" the Scriptures speak of?

Does It, also, see through the glass darkly?

"What is this "Mind of Christ" the Scriptures speak of?" Beloved Servant

CRYSTAL AS IN UNBEARABLY CLEAR!

"Does It, also, see through the glass darkly?"

NO! There is no darkness of light, there is no light brighter, I know there is a verse of scripture that says this, I cannot find the words to find it. The Christ does not know what a blurred vision could even possibly be. There are NO shadows in His Vision.

Yet Paul, who has the mind of Christ makes clear that veils remain

"If anyone thinks they know anything, they know not yet as they ought to know"

and

"Now we know in part"

Then we shall know as we are known.

When will we know as we are known? Upon the adoption of sons, even the redemption of our bodies! On the day when we are completed in the image of Christ, the image of God.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #85 on: November 14, 2011, 07:14:45 AM »
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2011, 07:17:49 AM »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #87 on: November 14, 2011, 07:38:25 AM »
I aint new here but a door was opened and by the grace of God Im jumping in. Praise His Name!

"Adam failed, through the exercise of a free will, Christ could have failed, but did not, through the exercise of a free will." EW

Someone brought up or injected this consideration of "free will" not I. Adam, and especially Jesus Chirst had no "free will" as you attempt to reveal;  such a thought is ludicrous and simply very far from any truth what so ever.

Adam, had NO free will, should he have had, then the whole concept of a God and Lord such like Yahweh with the sovereignty over ALL, as you would I am sure, admit He is, would and could not be. What ever "choice" adam/man made was certainly not our of the WILL of His Creator.
Further more, should Jesus Christ the Saviour of the World have made His own "choice" then He would have lied and slurred a disgrace to His Fathe, and I for one highly doubt that.

Joh 5:30  `I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.

Now I ask you is this making a "choice" or is this doing the the Fathers WILL? When we forget that The Existing One could be even the slightest out of the loop, we have lost the vision.
Pro 29:18 Where there is no vision, a people is let loose, but, he that keepeth instruction, how happy is he!

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #88 on: November 14, 2011, 07:58:07 AM »
Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous--how well I know it.
--Psa 139:14



Psalm 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, are the wonders you have done. The things you planned for us no one can recount to you; were I to speak and tell of them, they would be too many to declare.


You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed. [Psa 139:16]

Offline jabcat

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #89 on: November 14, 2011, 08:24:14 AM »
 :soccer:   alright, since the score is tied now at 1-1, I'm sure this can be further discussed in uh, more creative terms...   :reachout:

thankyou...thankyouverymuuusch

(good scrips Mol)
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2011, 08:39:07 AM »
I aint new here but a door was opened and by the grace of God Im jumping in. Praise His Name!

"Adam failed, through the exercise of a free will, Christ could have failed, but did not, through the exercise of a free will." EW

Someone brought up or injected this consideration of "free will" not I. Adam, and especially Jesus Chirst had no "free will" as you attempt to reveal;  such a thought is ludicrous and simply very far from any truth what so ever.

Adam, had NO free will, should he have had, then the whole concept of a God and Lord such like Yahweh with the sovereignty over ALL, as you would I am sure, admit He is, would and could not be. What ever "choice" adam/man made was certainly not our of the WILL of His Creator.
Further more, should Jesus Christ the Saviour of the World have made His own "choice" then He would have lied and slurred a disgrace to His Fathe, and I for one highly doubt that.

Joh 5:30  `I am not able of myself to do anything; according as I hear I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who sent me.

Now I ask you is this making a "choice" or is this doing the the Fathers WILL? When we forget that The Existing One could be even the slightest out of the loop, we have lost the vision.
Pro 29:18 Where there is no vision, a people is let loose, but, he that keepeth instruction, how happy is he!


IMO Freedom is the goal of creation, the finished work of the Son, and purpose of the priesthood of the sons of God. Jesus chose to do the Father's will. It is why He was spotless. If He could not choose, He could not be tempted, and the scripture says He was tempted in all manner like as we are. This is the reason He is qualified to be our High Priest, and sympathizes with our weakness. It does not follow logically that if God grants free will within His own parameters, that He has left himself out of the loop. Such loops are our creation not His. His ways are greater than our ways. The one whom the son sets free is free indeed(that means for real). Someday the whole creation will be free. Love is all about free will- it is what we are growing into. God's will is like the rushing of many waters, it is the definition of free. The wind blows where it wills,but it knows not where it goes or from whence it came, SO IT IS with everyone who is born of the spirit. This is not some fake freedom, or play on words. However, rather than incur some sort of ban, this is my last comment on the subject. I have no axe to grind about it, and believe there are shades of the whole truth scattered within several viewpoints on the subject. Therefore, as a son, and an heir of God in Christ, I am free to choose to speak of it no more :o)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 08:52:37 AM by eaglesway »
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Offline Cardinal

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #91 on: November 15, 2011, 03:48:30 PM »
Matthew 16;26...what good would it be for a man if he gain the whole world[dominion] but forfeits his soul

 :cloud9: Wow.....love this Sheila  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #92 on: November 15, 2011, 05:44:49 PM »

IMO Freedom is the goal of creation



:cloud9: Wow.....love this eaglesway  :thumbsup:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #93 on: November 15, 2011, 09:44:58 PM »
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #94 on: November 15, 2011, 10:33:11 PM »
Matthew 16;26...what good would it be for a man if he gain the whole world[dominion] but forfeits his soul

 :cloud9: Wow.....love this Sheila  :thumbsup:

 :cloud9: Not sure how you meant it, but I heard it as a witness to what happened in the garden, loud and clear. Adam wasn't willing to forfeit his soul so he could maintain dominion,which would have been the epitome of selfishness.
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #95 on: November 15, 2011, 10:53:46 PM »
In opinion, that is not so.  "Adam wasn't willing to forfeit his soul ..." Cardindal      he /adam was only a soul.




"Jesus chose to do the Father's will." Eagleswings

Jesus was the Fathers Will, no choosing. [my opinion]
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2011, 10:56:23 PM »

Jesus was the Fathers Will, no choosing. [my opinion]


Mine too.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2011, 11:01:58 PM »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #98 on: November 16, 2011, 02:24:31 AM »
Quote
Some may be singing a differnt pitch, but it harmonizes with the lyrics of God in us. 
:icon_flower:
Well that's just beautiful Nathan and Taffy.  :icon_flower:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Lucifer/ADAM
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2011, 02:10:05 AM »

Jesus was the Fathers Will, no choosing. [my opinion]


Mine too.
:dsunny:

Splitting hairs, semantics, in my opinion (no offense intended :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com