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Isa 14:12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

the word translated (wrongly)lucifer (which is latin btw, not greek, should give you a hint its use as a proper name is wrong) is heylel/light bearer, adam is the light bearer, as he was the bearer of the image of El

Here is the translation in Nasb
How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

Rev 22
I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star!

I don't feel comfortable with the same title being given to Christ as Satan do you? (Venus is the star in view here in both passages which is the first brightest star seen in the morning), but Adam is a type of the one to come, so having the same title isn't such a stretch.

Isa 14:16 Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

as in Adam all die, through the one man came the transgression, a man made the earth tremble

He is also the king of babylon, babylon is the kingdom of this world, the fleshly desires vs. the kingdom of the spirit of the second man Christ the new Jerusalem (literal Jerusalem is called egypt and sodom)
Eze 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation over the king of Tyre and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"You had the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

Origin: from 08506
Reference: TWOT - 2511b
PrtSpch: noun feminime
In Hebrew: tynkt 2
In NET: pattern 1, perfection 1
In AV: sum 1, pattern 1
Count: 2
Definition: 1) measurement, pattern, proportion

heres the only other place this word is used in the bible
Eze 43:10 As for you, son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, so that they will be ashamed of their sins and measure the pattern.

what is the temple of God? Our body the living stones, and the whole temple the entire ecclesia (assembly), God does not dwell in temples made of human hands, adam is a type or pattern of Christ who was the tabernacle walking around
"and the word became flesh and tabernacled among us"

15"You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.

John 8:44 You people are from your father the devil, and you want to do what your father desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies.

1)American Standard Version EZE 43
1Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east. 2And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shined with his glory.
voice-revelation, from mount of olives, day star, sun arises
3And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city; and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
cherubim, in spirit, ate scroll, eze 1-3
4And the glory of Jehovah came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east. 5And the Spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of Jehovah filled the house.
spirit took me up, holy of holies/garden banished to the east, gate blocked by cherubim
6And I heard one speaking unto me out of the house; and a man stood by me. 7And he said unto me, Son of man, this is the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever.
dwell in the midst
And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, and by the dead bodies of their kings in their high places; 8in their setting of their threshold by my threshold, and their door-post beside my door-post, and there was but the wall between me and them; and they have defiled my holy name by their abominations which they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger. 9Now let them put away their whoredom, and the dead bodies of their kings, far from me; and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

10Thou, son of man, show the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern. 11And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, make known unto them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the egresses thereof, and the entrances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof; and write it in their sight; that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them. 12This is the law of the house: upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
(form=tsurah h6699 is the feminine version of tsuwr h6697=rock as in God) (we are the bride, christ is our rock)
(also Tyre = rock and these all come from the same root 6696) (only use of H6699 in Bible)
(the word pattern is only used here and in the "lucifer" passage Eze 28)

2)dwell- in lxx its kataskeno g2681, from kata (throw down, stake down in the sense of more permanent) and skeno tent G4637
[Jhn 1:14 KJV] - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt[4637] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. word=spirit, flesh=tent
[Rev 7:15 KJV] - Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell[4637] among them.
[Rev 12:12 KJV] - Therefore rejoice , [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell[4637] in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
(do people actually live in the sea?)
[Rev 13:6 KJV] - And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell[4637] in heaven.
[Rev 21:3 KJV] - And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying , Behold , the tabernacle[4633] of God [is] with men, and he will dwell[4637] with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

3)skeno 4637 is the verb of the noun 4636 tabernacle, these are the only two uses of 4636

[2Cr 5:1 KJV] - For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle[4636] were dissolved , we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2Cr 5:4 KJV] - For we that are in [this] tabernacle[4636] do groan , being burdened : not for that we would be unclothed , but clothed upon , that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

4)this comes from 4633 skene tabernacle 4633 is akin to skia 4639 (for unknown reasons to strong)
[Hbr 8:5 KJV] - Who serve unto the example (hypodiegma g5262) and shadow (skia 4639) of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle[4633]: for, See , saith he , [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

[Act 7:44 KJV] - Our fathers had the tabernacle[4633] of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed , speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion (typos g5179) that he had seen .
[Hbr 8:2 KJV] - A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle[4633], which the Lord pitched , and not man.

[Hbr 9:3 KJV] - And after the second veil, the tabernacle[4633] which is called the Holiest of all;
[Hbr 9:8 KJV] - The Holy Ghost this signifying , that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest , while as the first tabernacle[4633] was yet standing:old testament/physical "literal"/old man/aaronic vs
[Hbr 9:11 KJV] - But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come , by a greater and more perfect tabernacle[4633], not made with hands, that is to say , not of this building; new testament/spiritual/new man/melkezedek
Rev 21 1 1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place[4633] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God. (who is the bride?)

5) skia [4639]
(Luke 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,)
[Luk 1:79 KJV] - To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow[4639] of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
[Mat 4:16 KJV] - The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow[4639] of death light is sprung up . (shadow of darkness is the law of sin and death, sprung up=arises same as 2 Pet 1:19 as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.)

[Mar 4:32 KJV] - But when it is sown , it groweth up , and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow[4639] of it. (speaking of the kingdom of heaven, which is at hand proclaimed Jesus)
[Col 2:17 KJV] - Which are a shadow[4639] of things to come ; but the body [is] of Christ.(talking about the OC, the literal)
[Hbr 8:5 KJV] - Who serve unto the example and shadow[4639] of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See , saith he , [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[Hbr 10:1 KJV] - For the law having a shadow[4639] of good things to come , [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect .

(The law, the ritual the physical temple are the shadow and not the very image (remember this word skia is related to tabernacle, the tabernacle is the shadow, the pattern)

[Rom 1:23 NASB] - and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image[1504] in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
[Rom 8:29 NASB] - For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image[1504] of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
[1Cr 11:7 NASB] - For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image[1504] and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
[1Cr 15:49 NASB] - Just as we have borne the image[1504] of the earthy, we will also bear the image[1504] of the heavenly.
[2Cr 3:18 NASB] - But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image[1504] from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. (transformed from the image of earthy/adam)
[2Cr 4:4 NASB] - in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image[1504] of God.
[Col 1:15 NASB] - He is the image[1504] of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
[Col 3:10 NASB] - and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image[1504] of the One who created him --
[Rev 13:14 NASB] - And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image[1504] to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.
[Rev 13:15 NASB] - And it was given to him to give breath to the image[1504] of the beast, so that the image[1504] of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image[1504] of the beast to be killed.
(where is the image of the beast set up?, image of earthy vs image of heavenly, adam vs jesus) (Ecc all men are wild beasts)
(the number of the mark of the beast is 666 the number of man, anthropos,mankind)

7)hypodiegma 5262
[Jhn 13:15 KJV] - For I have given you an example[5262], that ye should do as I have done to you. (wash feet, pick up cross, die to self, enter into the holy of holies, enter into rest)
[Hbr 4:11 KJV] - Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example[5262] of unbelief. (entering into rest=enter the holy of holies, speaking of the promised land, the Israelites didn't enter when they should have)
[Hbr 8:5 KJV] - Who serve unto the example[5262] and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See , saith he , [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[Hbr 9:23 KJV] - [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns[5262] of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.[/color]

8)type tupos G5179
[Rom 5:14 NASB] - Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type[5179] of Him who was to come.
[1Cr 10:6 NASB] - Now these things happened as examples[5179] for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. (the things here is everything in the OT)
[Phl 3:17 NASB] - Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern[5179] you have in us.
[1Th 1:7 NASB] - so that you became an example[5179] to all the believers in Macedonia and in Achaia.
[/b] (christ is our pattern, as we grow up into the fullness of Christ we become the pattern for others)

9)"Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD:

"You were the signet of perfection,a
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
James 3:9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;
(the word likeness here is the same used for signet in LXX, it signifies a signet ring or stamp used to seal documents, we are the stamp of God, this is the only place this word appears in the NT)

13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering,

same word for precious, look up H3368, the word is used almost all times of precious stones/materials to build, decorate, or fill the temple. Also compared to wisdom, and Christ (the light)

Isa 28:16 therefore thus says the Lord GOD, See, I am laying in Zion a foundation stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation: "One who trusts will not panic."

sardius, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire,b emerald, and carbuncle;
and crafted in gold were your settings
and your engravings.
(9 gems, 9 fruits of the spirit, 9 is the number of HS)(nearly all the uses of the gems listed are of that in the breastplate of the high priest, who is the great high priest? adam is a type of the one to come)

On the day that you were created
they were prepared.
14 You were an anointed guardian cherub.
(annointed, kings and rulers were annointed, messiah means annointed)

10)1 pet 2 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For this is contained in Scripture:

(precious G1784 is used only of people and in this passage at all in the bible)

7This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps (what was his example? to die to his flesh, enter the holy of holies through a new way, through his flesh)

11)I placed you;d you were on the holy mountain of God;
in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created,
till unrighteousness was found in you.

I, personally wish the translators would have left the word "hêylêl" alone. Yet I have to believe that the Lord had good reason to have all the confusion that we have even today. It seems to me that it adds to a great deal as to how we will not come together. I reason that way back in Genesis the need for a particular name/someone or thing, to blame and lay a weight on to make us "feel" better or to use a 1940's early 1950's word...swell, is all part of our learning.
I personally feel any labor over this word, for what or who it represents falls into the very flaw that The Lord knew that man would fall into. I consider it to be very unimportant. :icon_flower: :HeartThrob:

The confusions all part of the plan Micah, Babel anyone?  Chaos to order, darkness to light.


--- Quote from: redhotmagma on November 07, 2011, 04:57:53 AM ---The confusions all part of the plan Micah, Babel anyone?  Chaos to order, darkness to light.

--- End quote ---

Perhaps that is so. :bigGrin:

I think it is definitely so. If we consider that AQdam was driven out of the garden for eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and eveil, this in essence is darkness, chaos. It is a flaming sword that keeps us out- it moves to meet us wherever we try to break in, because the Door is the only acceptable entrance to the Sheepfold. The Sheepfold is described(IMO) in 1 John

If we walk in the light as He is in the Light we have fellowship(koinonea, oneness, union &communion, harmony) with one another(love one another, bear one anothers burdens, esteem one another better than yourself, forbear one another, forgive one another), and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

It iis in the communion of brotherly love that the efficacy of the blood is at its greatest and the Spiritat its strongest. When we move into love, we get the two great promises of Ephesians, "that you might know what is the height and the depth and the breadth of the love of Christ and be filled up into all the fulness of God(Eph 3:19) and... speaking the truth in love....

Eph 4:13-16  until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.  As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;  but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,  from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

In other words, love is the core revelation, becoming a tree of life in all those who eat of it. Set in that context, some of the other stuff we talk about may have some importance. :o)


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