Author Topic: Lost souls  (Read 5221 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5681
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2012, 02:19:31 AM »
 :eek:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline dajomaco

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 874
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2012, 04:54:33 AM »

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5681
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2012, 07:31:31 PM »
 :Chinscratch:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline dajomaco

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 874
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2012, 11:52:11 PM »

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5681
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2012, 01:39:23 AM »
:Chinscratch:

Micha you look perplexed. Are you?

No, read that it was a chin scratch. :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline dajomaco

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 874
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2012, 04:58:44 AM »

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5681
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2012, 06:54:19 AM »
:Chinscratch:

Micha you look perplexed. Are you?

No, read that it was a chin scratch. :dsunny:

What does a chinscratch mean ?:dunno:

I suppose it means the thread hit a wall?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline dajomaco

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 874
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2012, 05:59:52 PM »
:Chinscratch:

Micha you look perplexed. Are you?

No, read that it was a chin scratch. :dsunny:

What does a chinscratch mean ?:dunno:

I suppose it means the thread hit a wall?

Walls are sopmthing to be over come we can wait till an actor says TEAR DOWN THESE WALLS!

Or we can wait till we are all in the order of Melchizedek and walk through walls.

where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

cheapgw2gold

  • Guest
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2012, 04:59:48 AM »
The soul is not a subject that I have a clear understanding of.

Offline micah7:9

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 5681
  • Gender: Male
  • Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine ene
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2012, 05:44:53 AM »
The soul is not a subject that I have a clear understanding of.

See Gen. 2:7
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2012, 05:08:42 PM »


Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
--1 Thess 5:23


Look at that.

We are tripartite creatures, made in the image of our God.

Spirit, soul, and body.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9018
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2012, 07:09:41 PM »
...and some say that's the order in which we're saved.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

goodreport

  • Guest
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2012, 07:17:21 PM »
...and some say that's the order in which we're saved.

Very interesting!!!  I agree, but I need to look deeper into the order in which we are saved and how it relates to the order in which man was created. 


Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12916
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2012, 07:25:01 PM »
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Why are only 2 'components' mentioned in that verse if there are 3?

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9018
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2012, 07:27:02 PM »
Good question.  I dunno.   :Chinscratch:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2012, 07:46:10 PM »
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Why are only 2 'components' mentioned in that verse if there are 3?


That's talking about death.

"And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul; rather be afraid of him who can destroy soul and body in Gehenna."  Mat 10:28


But, we have life and life eternal through our Lord, Jesus Christ.



But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition [destruction]; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.  Heb 10:39





« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 08:05:30 PM by Molly »

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12916
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2012, 08:07:19 PM »
I don't understand your answer Molly.
Yes it's about death (spirit returning to God)
Then you quote a verse that mentions 2 components (body, soul) to support 3 components.
Why isn't the spirit mentioned?

Looking at the defs of spirit and soul they sound very similar.
(Gen 2:7) And LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

That sound like body=soul
But your verse sounds body isn't soul.
But what's the soul in that verse? Spirit? If not why isn't the spirit mentioned?

SOUL

ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
2a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
2b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
2c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G5594
Citing in TDNT: 9:608, 1342
SPIRIT


rach
BDB Definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalized force
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H7306
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2131a
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12916
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2012, 08:11:25 PM »
BTW, 1 Thess 5:23 which you quoted, clearly shows 3 components.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2012, 08:15:32 PM »
YOU can kill my body, ww, but you cannot kill my soul.

But, without Christ, all is vanity.


"vanity"

H1892
הבל    הבל
hebel  hăbêl
heh'-bel, hab-ale'
From H1891; emptiness or vanity; figuratively something transitory and unsatisfactory; often used as an adverb: -  X altogether, vain, vanity.




That was Satan's victory, when we were lowered into vanity,


But Thanks be to God who has given US the victory through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
--1 Cor 15:57

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12916
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2012, 08:17:35 PM »
Quote from: Molly
Spirit, soul, and body.
Body=dust=flesh etc => can be destroyed.
Spirit returns to God => can't be destroyed.
Soul => This one confuses me most. In Gen 2:7 is sounds like the body. But can also point to 'life force'.
But that seems to conflict with "And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul"
Man certainly can kill "life force".
 :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2012, 08:27:44 PM »
Quote from: Molly
Spirit, soul, and body.
Body=dust=flesh etc => can be destroyed.
Spirit returns to God => can't be destroyed.
Soul => This one confuses me most. In Gen 2:7 is sounds like the body. But can also point to 'life force'.
But that seems to conflict with "And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul"
Man certainly can kill "life force".
 :dontknow:

Only people who have never left their bodies think the soul=the body.
 
He is Life.  He is the resurrection.  He has come to give us life and give it superabundantly.


this
 computer is driving me crazy.  iT'S jumping all over the place.



What do you think we are saved from?  DEATH.

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12916
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2012, 08:49:41 PM »
Quote from: Molly
Spirit, soul, and body.
Body=dust=flesh etc => can be destroyed.
Spirit returns to God => can't be destroyed.
Soul => This one confuses me most. In Gen 2:7 is sounds like the body. But can also point to 'life force'.
But that seems to conflict with "And you shall not be afraid of those who kill the body that are not able to kill the soul"
Man certainly can kill "life force".
 :dontknow:

Only people who have never left their bodies think the soul=the body.
 
He is Life.  He is the resurrection.  He has come to give us life and give it superabundantly.


this
 computer is driving me crazy.  iT'S jumping all over the place.
When typing a message? If so Card had the same problem. Turned out a browser related problem.



Quote
What do you think we are saved from?  DEATH.
'from' or 'out of' ?
But how that relate to this discussion (body, soul, spirit)?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11260
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2012, 09:37:08 PM »
Because we are being saved, spirit, soul, and body--in that order.



38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

--Heb 10



Why does Solomon tell us everything is meaningless?  Do I feel that way?  NO



Remember your Creator before the silver cord is cut.
That's when the golden bowl will be broken.
The wheel will be broken at the well.
The pitcher will be smashed at the spring.
7 Remember your Creator before you return to the dust you came from.
That's when your spirit will go back to God who gave it.

8 "Meaningless! Everything is meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Nothing has any meaning."

--Ecc 12



Solomon is talking about the default position [without Christ].  But, ultimately, he knows there is something more than just the seeming vanity of this life, where body and soul are destroyed after a short period of life.  So, he ends with a warning.  Why warn if everything is meaningless?  Why warn if life is transient?



Everything has now been heard.
And here's the final thing I want to say.
Have respect for God and obey his commandments.
That's what everyone should do.
14 God will judge everything people do.
That includes everything they try to hide.
He'll judge everything, whether it's good or evil

--Ecc 12






« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 09:52:42 PM by Molly »

goodreport

  • Guest
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2012, 11:01:15 PM »
Molly, do you have Scripture verses to support "being saved -- spirit, soul, body-in that order"??

Thanks.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9018
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Lost souls
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2012, 11:03:17 PM »
Molly, do you have Scripture verses to support "being saved -- spirit, soul, body-in that order"??

Thanks.

I've got a whole honkin' long post somewhere about it, with scrips, but haven't been able to find it.  It's one fellow's opinion (with scrips) but I found it pretty interesting.  I'll keep looking.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23