Greetings Gentle Readers.
In my first post
on this thread I summed up exactly how that peculiar hell was translated into existence by the KJV interpreters.
And later I said, in other posts, that I wrote all that out, right off the bat, to demonstrate my solidarity with what you guys, the Tentmakers, are trying to accomplish for the kingdom as well as to show that I am not a troublemaker or a threat, or even just frustrating, even as some, I knew, would later perceive me to be because of what the way
they think would reveal to them about what I would say.
Well, after I summed up well the shenanigans of the KJV interpreters, with a gracious comment on it by Tim thrown in, thank you again, Tim, I then asked this question:"Given the deliberate, ulterior motivated dishonesty of the KJV interpreters, how can we trust the rest of their work? Indeed, why should we?
My answer was that I don't. I don't trust that any
logical conclusion, derived from the English sense
forced onto the Greek and Hebrew text by King James's interpreters, is truthful.
And the majority of you here don't either, at least from what you know.
Why? Because words mean things
. And that is why words can convey things we call thoughts or ideas.
The fact is that the KJV interpreters screwed with The Words of God. Which means we, the Believers, were the ones screwed. Specifically, we were screwed into trusting, at least for the next several centuries, that the hell-based theology of St. Augustine and John Calvin was truthful- and that, unfortunately, God was Who they interpreted Him to be- Mean, Angry and Capricious. Despite the 'agape' He supposedly demonstrated when He allowed His Son to be murdered, just so He could save a few humans, for whatever His purposes were in making these few His Son's (Gulp!) 'Bride' (*Chill* Imagine having John Calvin's God as your Father in Law for all of eternity!!)
Now, that doesn't mean that I disagree with how the KJV interpreters translated everything
. For obviously The truth of the Gospel has gone out, successfully, into the World, preached from the final 1728 version of the 1611 KJV Bible right into the present.
And that is because the truth is that God is
Agape! And He is
a Good and Kind and Patient Father, even as those who receive his re-siring spirit come to know Him to be.
What I am saying is that I don't trust what I or anyone else will conclude from the English sense they
gave to the original text, until
I can verify it with my own word studies. Then I can know whether their's or my conclusions, drawn from this English sense they imposed, are accurate.
And how can I know whether my conclusions, or anyone else's, for that matter, are accurate? Because truth is singular in nature. It is lies that are plural. Therefore, I know, both logically and from experience, that many of the conclusions that are drawn from that foreign, English sense that was imposed on The Words by the KJV interpreters, lie to you in your thoughts.
So, what's in a word? Answer: Meaning
: One word can mean almost the same thing as another and one word can mean exactly the opposite of another.
But it only ever
takes just one word to mean exactly
Which is why you can change the thought you want to convey if you change just one single word. It can be a subtle change (using synonyms) or it can be a substantial one, even as substantial as to invert the meaning originally intended (using antonyms).
To illustrate this I am going to attempt to change your thinking about Jacob- that dirty scoundrel, that liar and deceiver, that suppplanter, that damn heel- grabber
- by changing one English word that does not reflect the truth in the Hebrew word it was made to stand for in the English translation.
The Hebrew word is tawm
It occurs 13 times in 13 verses of the Hebrew text.
It is translated with the English word 'perfect' nine times, with the English word 'undefiled' twice and with the English word 'upright' one time. All of these words are synonyms and based on the Hebrew context, these English words accurately convey the thought in the Hebrew text where tawm
is used, variously, to describe, by God Himself, the character of Job and in two Psalms and a Proverb to contrast the righteous man with the unrighteous and once by Solomon to describe his Shulamite's physical beauty even as it is once used by her to describe his.
That accounts for twelve of the thirteen times tawm
appears in the Hebrew text..
The thirteenth is actually the first time the word tawm
appears. And it is used to describe Jacob.
And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a tawm
man, dwelling in tents. Genesis 25:27 KJV.
But, here, in this first occurrence of tawm
, did the KJV interpreters use any of the English words they choose to translate tawm
everywhere else it appears, that is 'perfect', 'upright' or 'undefiled'?
They said that Jacob was a plain
man, dwelling in tents.
Do you see, now, what I mean, how one word can literally and even drastically change everything?
Think now on the story of Jacob and Esau. What thought's are in your mind about Jacob, thoughts that you had planted in you by those who preached 'the truth' from the KJV, that now must
be altered, assuming you desire truthfulness in your thinking about Jacob, because now you know the truth that Jacob was an 'upright', 'undefiled' or 'perfect' man, dwelling in tents?
Even as the Bible declares him to be and even as God Himself used tawm
to describe Job, that is to say that he was upright and undefiled, or 'perfect'?
Well, Gentle Readers, in the similitude of what the KJV interpreters did to malign the character of Jacob, (a man God apparently had a lot of respect for and thus chose over another who really was a scoundrel), by changing one word and thus put it into our minds that he was a plain
man, rather than an upright man, there is another deception that they foisted on the English speaking mind when they did something quite similar to what they needed to do to the text to translate into existence that peculiar hell that is the cornerstone of Calvin's theology: They translated two different Greek words katabole
(Strong's # 2602) and themelios
(Strong's # 2310)- which, in Greek, posses dissimilar, even opposite meanings- with one
English word, thus translating into existence an idea that is as peculiar as hell.
First let's look at themelios
It appears 16 times in 15 verses.
For your convenience I have provided all 15 of the scriptures, from the KJV, were this word appears and have italicized the English word used where themelios
appears in the original text.
Lu 6:48- 49 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation
on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded
# 2311) upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation
built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Lu 14:28-30 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation
, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Acts 16:25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations
of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
Rom 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation
1 Cor 3: 10-12 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation
, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation
can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation
gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Eph 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation
of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
1 Tim 6:17-19 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; that they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; laying up in store for themselves a good foundation
against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
2 Tim 2:19 …Nevertheless the foundation
of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying
#2598) again the foundation
of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God…
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations
, whose builder and maker is God.
Rev 21:14 & 19And the wall of the city had twelve foundations
, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb… And the foundations
of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation
was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald…
Here then is the dictionary definition of the English word 'foundation'
1) the basis or groundwork of anything: the moral foundation of both society and religion.
2) the natural or prepared ground or base on which some structure rests.
3) the lowest division of a building, wall, or the like, usually of masonry and partly or wholly below the surface of the ground.
4) the act of founding, setting up, establishing, etc.: a policy in effect since the foundation.
5) the state of being founded.
6) an institution financed by a donation or legacy to aid research, education, the arts, etc.: the Ford Foundation.
7) an endowment for such an institution.
8) a cosmetic, as a cream or liquid, used as a base for facial makeup.
9) Solitaire. a card of given denomination on which other cards are to be added according to denomination or suit.
And this is what Strong says it means:
1) laid down as a foundation, the foundation (of a building, wall, city)
2) metaph. the foundations, beginnings, first principals
a) of institution or system of truth
So, we see that, given the context of the Greek, when the word themelios
appears, that our English word 'foundation' was a very good choice for accurately conveying the original writers intent.
That is, 'foundation' is concordant with themelios
appears and is a good word to convey the original writers intent.
Now in exactly the same way let's look at katabole
and the Greek word it comes from katabolloKatabole
appears 11 times in 11 verses and katabollo
appears 3 times in 3 verses.
Again, for your convenience, I have provided all 14 of the scriptures, from the KJV, were this word appears and this time have italicized in green
the English words chosen by the KJV interpreters to use where katabole
appears in the original text and in blue
Matt 13: 34-35 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation
of the world.
Matt 25:31-40 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation
of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came.
Luke 11: 48-51 Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation
of the world, may be required of this generation; from the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation
of the world.
2 Cor 4:8-10 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down
, but not destroyed; always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
Eph 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation
of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying
again the foundation
of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God… This verse is special. It uses both katabollo and themelios in the same thought which, all by itself, proves quite nicely that 'foundation' can not be what katabollo or katabole means.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation
of the world.
Heb 9: 24-26 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; for then must he often have suffered since the foundation
of the world: But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 11:11-12 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive
seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
1 Pet 1: 17-21 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation
of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down
, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev13: 8-9 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation
of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 17: 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation
of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The definition for foundation has already been given.
However, in one place katabole
cannot be translated with the word 'foundation' because it just wouldn't make any sense.
In that troublesome place they chose the word 'conceive'.
(Sound familiar? this is exactly like the situation where they had to translate aionios
with phrases like 'since the world began' to keep some kind of sense because, in those toublesome places, the wrong word choice, 'eternal', just wouldn't work. Which, of course, just adds to the proof that many of their
word choices aren't accurate ones.)
Now here is what Strong says katabole
1) a throwing or laying down
a) the injection or depositing of the virile semen in the womb
b) of the seed of plants and animals
2) a founding (laying down a foundation)
And what katabollo
1) to cast down
a) to throw to the ground, prostrate
2) to put in a lower place
a) to lay (down) a foundation
Now it is a truth, even as you are likely aware of it, I'm sure, from your own word studies, that Strong got his definitions from the context
where the KJV interpreters said the English word should be used, with no regard for whether the Greek and English words were truly concordant.
In other words, if the KJV interpreters said that this is what the word meant then, for him, that is what the word meant.
OK. So, does the Greek language really have two
words that mean exactly
the same thing as all the ideas that come into our mind when we hear the English word 'foundation'?
The answer is no.
The Greek language does not have two words that mean exactly the same thing as 'foundation' anymore than the English language has two words that mean exactly the same thing as foundation.
Nor can any other language have two words that mean exactly
the same thing. (Except for differences in spelling)
What the KJV interpreters are doing here is the exact same thing they did when they used one English word 'eternal' to translate aion
means exactly the same thing as our English word 'eternal'. Which means that aion
and it's adjective, aionios
, do not mean 'eternal' (as you all know), anymore than katabole
mean 'foundation' (as you all now
means 'foundation' in Greek, not katabole
End of Part 1