All I will say to you in reply, for now, is that my eyes were opened, many years ago, when I realized that The Words were telling me that, not only was it was possible for me to stop sinning- for having the 'spirit of Jesus making its home in me', as Paul put it, or, for being 're-sired by the sperm of Jehovah', as John put it- but that it was expected, by God and reasonably so, that I stop sinning and start being righteous exactly because I now have the very Nature of God in me; His own Divine Nature, imparted to me in similar fashion as an earthly father passes his nature on to his children
Well, the way I am understanding this quote is, you believe it is up to you to stop sinning on your own. If that is possible what did Jesus need to die for?
Now CHB, you know darn good and well that I wasn't saying any such thing and that your question is a facetious one! (Remember, I know, now
that you're a 'smart alec'
But, just for the record and for your sake also, I will say plainly that I do not believe that it is possible for me to stop sinning on my own
I need Jesus' spirit in me first
, just like you do. And that is what Jesus had need to die for so that He, through spirit, could do just that, enter us, through faith.
Then He and I together
can start to accomplish what once was impossible for me to do on my own
, namely to start being righteous through my being obedient to His spirit's promptings.
And when I am being obedient to His spirit guess what? I'm not sinning!
And do you know how He speaks to me, how He prompts me? Through my cleansed conscience; that still, small voice inside me that says what is right and wrong to do. And that cleansed conscience can really work wonders in a person who has received a deposit of divine sperm within that re-sires us and imparts the Divine Nature of God the Father to us, even as that fresh new human begins to grow inside of us, where Jesus said the kingdom of God is.
I bold faced my quote above so you might now perceive what I actually wrote.
Here are some of the scriptures that spoke these things into my heart of thoughts. There are a lot of them. (NOTE: Mostly I present the scriptures without the artificial chapter/ verse divisions. However since I can't quote whole letters and historical accounts I try to limit the quotes to whole thoughts so the context might be understood; with the success of that, for my choosing where to start and stop, to be for you to decide.)
And I will say, CHB, up-front, that if you are truly desiring to understand what I am saying (remember agreement
are not the same things), you will read them with what I said remaining in your mind so that you may perceive 'where I am coming from'.
Then you will better be able to discern the differences and argue against me more effectively, if that is your wish, or understand with
me from the desire to comprehend a brother in Christ who is sharing his heart of thoughts with you.
Likewise, if you don't care to understand, or if your motive is just to gainsay me, you will likely just skip past them, maybe reading one or two short ones as you scroll, but for the most part you will ignore them because you already 'know' what they're going to say and what you're going to say against it, from your understanding.
And for your 'knowing already' what they're going to say and what you will say to counter them--CHB, I cannot 'clear away' the coloring your understanding will bring to them, (yes, I know, it's my
perception that's colored not yours
…) but for me they are as plain as language can be (of course I know already what you think about St. John and John's 3 letters for having read your post through…).
Here we go:
"Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.
And you are aware that He was manifested that He should be taking away our sins, and in Him is no sin.
Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.
Little children, let no one be deceiving you. He who is doing righteousness is just, according as He is just.
Yet he who is doing sin is of the Adversary, for from the beginning is the Adversary sinning. For this was the Son of God manifested, that He should be annulling the acts of the Adversary.
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His sperm is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.
In this are apparent the children of God and the children of the Adversary: everyone who is not doing righteousness is not of God, and who is not loving his brother." 1 John 3: 4-10
"So has all of His divine power, that tends to life and devoutness, been presented to us through the recognition of Him Who calls us to His own glory and virtue; through which have been presented to us the precious and greatest promises, that through these you may become participants of the divine nature, fleeing from the corruption which is in the world by lust.
Now for this same thing also, employing all diligence, in your faith supply virtue, yet in virtue knowledge, yet in knowledge self-control, yet in self-control endurance, yet in endurance devoutness, yet in devoutness brotherly fondness, yet in brotherly fondness love.
For your possessing these and increasing is constituting you not idle nor yet unfruitful in the recognition of our Lord, Jesus Christ." 2 Pet 2:3-8
"Jesus answered them, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you that everyone who is doing sin, is a slave of sin.
Now the slave is not remaining in the house for the eon. The son is remaining for the eon.
If ever, then, the Son should be making you free, you will be really free." John 8: 34-36.
"Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; no revilers, no extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom.
And some of you were these, but you are bathed off, but you are hallowed, but you were justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:9-11
"What then? Should we be sinning, seeing that we are not under law, but under grace? May it not be coming to that!
Are you not aware that to whom you are presenting yourselves as slaves for obedience, his slaves you are, whom you are obeying, whether of Sin for death, or of Obedience for righteousness?
Now thanks be to God that you were slaves of Sin, yet you obey from the heart the type of teaching to which you were given over.
Now, being freed from Sin, you are enslaved to Righteousness." Rom 6: 15-17
"A wretched man am I! What will rescue me out of this body of death? Grace! I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law. Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.
For what was impossible to the law, in which it was infirm through the flesh, did God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sin's flesh and concerning sin, He condemns sin in the flesh, that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.
For those who are in accord with flesh are disposed to that which is of the flesh, yet those who are in accord with spirit to that which is of the spirit. For the disposition of the flesh is death, yet the disposition of the spirit is life and peace, because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able.
Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.
Yet you are not in flesh, but in spirit, if so be that God's spirit is making its home in you. Now if anyone has not Christ's spirit, this one is not His.
Now if Christ is in you, the body, indeed, is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is life because of righteousness. Now if the spirit of Him Who rouses Jesus from among the dead is making its home in you, He Who rouses Christ Jesus from among the dead will also be vivifying your mortal bodies because of His spirit making its home in you." Rom 7:24-8:10
"Let him who steals by no means still be stealing: yet rather let him be toiling, working with his hands at what is good, that he may have to share with one who has need.
Let no tainted word at all be issuing out of your mouth, but if any is good toward needful edification, that it may be giving grace to those hearing.
And do not be causing sorrow to the holy spirit of God by which you are sealed for the day of deliverance.
Let all bitterness and fury and anger and clamor and calumny be taken away from you (along) with all malice, yet become kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, dealing graciously among yourselves, according as God also, in Christ, deals graciously with you. Become, then, imitators of God, as beloved children, and be walking in love, according as Christ also loves you, and gives Himself up for us, an approach present and a sacrifice to God, for a fragrant odor.
Now, all prostitution and uncleanness or greed -- let it not even be named among you, according as is becoming in saints -- and vileness and stupid speaking or insinuendo, which are not proper, but rather thanksgiving.
For this you perceive, knowing that no paramour at all or unclean or greedy person, who is an idolater, has any enjoyment of the allotment in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no one be seducing you with empty words, for because of these things the indignation of God is coming on the sons of stubbornness.
Do not, then, become joint partakers with them, for you were once darkness, yet now you are light in the Lord.
As children of light be walking (for the fruit of the light is in all goodness and righteousness and truth), testing what is well pleasing to the Lord.
And be not joint participants in the unfruitful acts of darkness, yet rather be exposing them also, for it is a shame even to speak of the hidden things occurring, done by them." Eph 4:28-5:12
"Having then, brethren, boldness for the entrance of the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by a recently slain and living way which He dedicates for us, through the curtain, that is, His flesh, and a great Priest over the house of God, we may be approaching with a true heart, in the assurance of faith, with hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience, and a body bathed in clean water.
We may be retaining the avowal of the expectation without wavering, for faithful is He Who promises.
And we may be considering one another to incite to love and ideal acts, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves, according as the custom of some is, but entreating, and so much rather as you are observing the day drawing near.
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins, but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?" Heb 10:19-21
"If we should be saying that we are having fellowship with Him and should be walking in darkness, we are lying and are not doing the truth.Yet if we should be walking in the light as He is in the light, we are having fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, is cleansing us from every sin.
If we should be saying that we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we should be avowing our sins, He is faithful and just that He may be pardoning us our sins and should be cleansing us from all injustice.
If we should be saying that we have not sinned, we are making Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:6-10
"Now I am saying, walk in spirit, and you should under no circumstances be consummating the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh is lusting against the spirit, yet the spirit against the flesh. Now these are opposing one another, lest you should be doing whatever you may want.
Now, if you are led by spirit, you are not still under law.
Now apparent are the works of the flesh, which are adultery, prostitution, uncleanness, wantonness, idolatry, enchantment, enmities, strife, jealousies, furies, factions, dissensions, sects, envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God.
Now the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control: against such things there is no law." Gal 5:16-23
Thanks for reading all that. There is a good handful more but these are the ones I think do a good job of explaining my understanding.
Here I want to pause a second and explain why I am going to shorten these quotes that follow to the artificial chapter/verse divisions: I want to emphasize the word conscience
. Read through them keeping in mind what I said I believe, so you can understand my understanding and better refute it from your own understanding.
"Then those who heard, being convicted by conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the middle." John 8: 9
"In this, I am exerting myself also, to have a conscience which is no stumbling block toward God and men, continually." Acts 24:16
"… who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them,… "Rom 2:15
"The truth am I telling in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifying together with me in holy spirit,…"Rom 9:1
"Wherefore it is necessary to be subject, not only because of indignation, but also because of conscience."Rom 13:5
"But not in all is there this knowledge. Now some, used hitherto to the idol, are eating of it as an idol sacrifice, and their conscience, being weak, is being polluted." 1Cor 8:7
"For if anyone should be seeing you, who has knowledge, lying down in an idol's shrine, will not the conscience of him who is weak be inured to the eating of the idol sacrifices?" 1Cor 8:10
"Now in thus sinning against brethren, and beating their weak conscience, you are sinning against Christ." 1 Cor 8:12
"Everything that is sold at the meat market be eating, examining nothing because of conscience." 1 Cor 10:25
"If anyone of the unbelievers is inviting you, and you want to go, be eating everything that is placed before you, examining nothing because of conscience.
Yet if anyone should be saying to you, "This is a sacred sacrifice," do not eat, because of that one who divulges it, and conscience.
Yet conscience, I am saying, not that of yourself, but that of another. For why is my freedom being decided by another's conscience?" 1Cor 10:27-29
"For our boasting is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and sincerity of God, not in fleshly wisdom, but in the grace of God, we behaved ourselves in the world, yet more superabundantly toward you." 2 Cor 1:12
"But we spurn the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness, nor yet adulterating the word of God, but, by manifestation of the truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience in God's sight." 2 Cor 4:2
"Being aware, then, of the fear of the Lord, we are persuading men, yet we are manifest to God. Now I am expecting to be manifest in your consciences also." 2 Cor 5:11
"Now the consummation of the charge is love out of a clean heart and a good conscience and unfeigned faith,…" 1 Tim 1:5
"…having faith and a good conscience,…" 1Tm 1:19
"…having the secret of the faith in a clear conscience." 1Tim 3:9
"…in the hypocrisy of false expressions, their own conscience having been cauterized;…" 1 Tim 4:2
"Grateful am I to God, to Whom I am offering divine service from my ancestors with a clear conscience, as I have an unintermittent remembrance concerning you in my petitions, night and day,…"2Tim 1:3
"All, indeed, is clean to the clean, yet to the defiled and unbelieving nothing is clean, but their mind as well as conscience is defiled." 1Tim 1:15
"… which is a parable for the present period, according to which both approach presents and sacrifices are being offered, which can not make the one offering divine service perfect as to the conscience,…"Heb 9:9
"…how much rather shall the blood of Christ, Who, through the eonian spirit offers Himself flawless to God, be cleansing your conscience from dead works to be offering divine service to the living and true God?" Heb 9:14
"Else would they not cease being offered, because those offering divine service, having been once cleansed, are having no longer any consciousness of sins?"Heb 10:2
"…we may be approaching with a true heart, in the assurance of faith, with hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience, and a body bathed in clean water." Heb 10:22
"Pray concerning us, for we are persuaded that we have an ideal conscience, in all wanting to behave ideally." Heb 13:8
"…for this is grace, if, because of consciousness of God, anyone is undergoing sorrows, suffering unjustly."1 Pet 2:19
"… having a good conscience, that, in what they are speaking against you as of evildoers, they may be mortified, who traduce your good behavior in Christ." 1 Pet 3: 16
"…the representation of which, baptism, is now saving you also (not the putting off of the filth of the flesh, but the inquiry of a good conscience to God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,…" 1 Pet 3:21
That's all 32 of the NT chapter/verse quotes that contain the Greek word, sün-ā'-dā-sēs
END OF PART ONE