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All has been given, then all will have Aionios life!???

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Author Topic: John 17:2,3  (Read 5209 times)

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Dante

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Re: John 17:2,3
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2009, 11:53:18 PM »
willieH: Hi WW... :hithere:

After the generation of Christ (Around 70 AD) this world was the Lake of Fire. Since all prophecy had to happen in THAT generation just like Jesus said.

In Revelation I read that people are cast into LoF after judgement. After being resurected.

"AFTER" is a CHRONOLOGICAL term...  There is NO CHRONOLOGY to the BEING REVEALED as He is SIMULTANEOUSLY the ALPHA ...AND... OMEGA -- BOTH the BEGINNING - AND - the END, Forever!  Never changing!

The "Revelation" is the "REVEALING of JESUS CHRIST"... You presently appear to have a view which is CHRONOLOGICAL of a being [JESUS CHRIST] which IS REVEALED which HAS NO CHRONOLOGY... being BOTH the BEGINNING ...AND... the END...

The WORKS of GOD were FINISHED from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD -- Gen 2:1-2 -- Heb 4:3 -- TIME did not have to OCCUR, in order for those "WORKS" to be COMPLETE. (one of which is JUDGMENT)  GOD does not have to "wait" for TIME to elapse!  His WORK is ETERNAL... and stands ETERNAL!  That you and I are FINITE and unable to percieve the WORK as COMPLETE, does NOT preclude it's ETERNAL PERFECTION...

At the DECLARATION of the END from the BEGINNING, was ALL COMPLETE... that finite MEN, decide that the WORKS of GOD, are INCOMPLETE is a lack of vision (IMO) and (no offense) UNINSPIRED thinking which is CONTRARY to Scriptural TESTIMONY...

JESUS said:

John 12:31 -- "NOW is The JUDMGENT of THIS WORLD"...

That is pretty doggone, PLAIN and "To the POINT"...

Also, JESUS CHRIST ...IS... the same "yesterday, today and for ever"... So the entities which are PART of the REVEALING of JESUS CHRIST:  The "Lake of FIRE" and "the JUDGMENT", are the same yesterday, today and for ever... NOT necessitating this or that amount of "TIME" to occur in order for HIM to "be REVEALED"...  The WORD is already REVEALED in ALL in the ETERNAL... but for FINITES, we must step through the moments of TIME to GET BACK to where we began.

He is "REVEALED" within the DAYS of your LIFE... which are NOW, and IN THIS MOMENT, is "your" (and my) "BOOK" OPEN (and JUDGED) -- Rev 20:12 -- Yet ALL "BOOKS" were already COMPLETE at the FOUNDATION of the WORLD, having been DECLARED and foretold... as witnessed by the WORD...  :dontknow:

If you wish to know the END, then go to the BEGINNING which are ONE and the SAME:

Gen 2:1 -- Thus the Heavens and the Earth were --  FINISHED -- and ALL the host OF THEM

Heb 4:3 -- for we which have believed do enter into rest as He has said, As I have sworn in My wrath, if they shall enter into my rest, ...although THE WORKS WERE FINISHED from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD.

That would mean we already died.


We already DID!   ...IN ADAM!   :dontknow:

When HE died (in spirit) ALL MEN died with him...  :dontknow: -- 1 Cor 15:22

Assuming there is a relation between sins and the severity of LoF people that have  a bad life (hunger, poor, sick) where the greatest sinners.
But almost none die purified....

NOT "almost NONE" -- Only ONE "died purified" bro...  JESUS CHRIST  :first:

:omg:  Boy WW... :pitiful:  I was just wondering, ...How do YOU come to the conclusion that a "child born in Africa which is STARVING without HOPE, is due to his SINS"?  Or that a person "born in POVERTY to parents born in POVERTY is because of their SINS"?   Or that a "child with LEUKEMIA is dying because of  his SINS"?

As far as the "severity" of the LOF... You don't see "severity" in THIS LIFE, ...WW?  All one has to do to SEE "severity" is wake up and observe this world, and the direction in which it is headed -- (more "severity")  :dontknow:

I am 64, WW -- wait till YOU arrive at my age, and let's see what YOUR TESTIMONY of "this life" contains! ...I can witness for HOURS of the "SEVERITY" of THIS LIFE, which has been an ON-GOING part of life since I can remember ANYTHING... :nod:

That "severity" has taken My parents, uncles, aunts, friends, etc... into varying DEATHS which were VERY SEVERE in many cases... not to mention the heartache, disease, varying sorrows, economy... the "severity" list of THIS LIFE, is literally -- ENDLESS!

Believe what you will... it is your right.   But the on-going sufferings of THIS LIFE of sorrows, pain, and death is only countered by KNOWING the JOY of the GOSPEL...

My Lord told me to bring GOOD NEWS... and my testimony for others IS THIS:

JESUS CHRIST -- TOOK AWAY -- the sin of the WORLD... and THAT is what we have to "look forward" to...  :egyptdance: :boogie: :Egyptdance2:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

All I can say about what WillieH said is: Excellent Job of explaining things!!
Time to God is not as WE percieve it. All that has and is and will, take place has already taken place by God's eyes. He also sees it as the past and present. But in God's eyes (IMHO) Time is FOLDED, so as to FIT into whatever he is percieving at that time.

I believe God's Word is written with humans in mind,....don't get me wrong, but when it comes to how God percieves things, it is a totally different ball game!!!

I believe God STILL sees me in the first grade being beaten up by a bully and he sees me in a wheel chair years from now sipping my dinner through a straw.
So,.IN a CERTAIN WAY, time is irrelevent to God.

But I DO believe that when Jesus Christ uttered the Words: "It is finished", he meant JUST THAT! All things that must be done,.....ARE DONE!

And as WillieH pointed out, it was finished even before the Cross. It was all planned from BEFORE the foundation of the world.
TO ME,....this means that it is GOOD AS DONE, in God's eyes!
God knows that NOTHING,.....and I DO mean NOTHING can twart the PLANS of God.
The Alpha and Omega is exactly right. Jesus IS the first and the Last,,.....He IS the "I AM"!! He is everything to all things.
I am NOT trying to borrow money off of WillieH, but I CANNOT put it any better than the way HE did.

I have posted in many places about Chirstians DYING TO SIN and pointing that the Lake of Fire COULD be the Non-Chosen DYING TO SIN,....YET all I get is opposition!!
I think it make TOTAL SENSE to say that the second death is the beginiing for the unbeliever to start believing in God.

I have to Go an allow my wife on the computer now.
I had much more to say,....but HEY she is the boss!!! LOL!
But if I had to give advice to anyone, I would say: "Read what WillieH wrote,...THERE IS MUCH WISDOM in it!!!"
And like I said, I am NOT trying to borrow money off of him or become his best friend, it is JUST that he Makes a lot of sense!!!!


Peace to all.
 :icon_flower:

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Re: John 17:2,3
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2009, 12:06:07 AM »
 :cloud9: Amen Dante........that he does. And amen on time being 'folded', too. He has explained it that way to me too. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

glenda

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Re: John 17:2,3
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2009, 08:56:47 AM »
The way I have come to understand it is that the notorious words "those not believeing will go to the second death" are heard only after [1] all have experienced being resurrected, and [2] have also lived through and witnessed a very long day of the examination of all things (if the fall Holy Days prophecy the 2nd advent as the spring Holy days prophesied the 1st, then the day of examinatipn of all things and history will last 500 years.. Who, after all this, isn;t going to believe? The 1st resurrection is still the superior one, but in this drama (proving good from evil/life from death) some must play different roles (or there is no drama).. Since God confused the languages at Babel tower so mankind would not bring about collapse/apocalypse way too soon, before anything would be proven, it leads me to believe this is an important (unavoidable) drama, lesson and journey, this learning of good from evil/Life from death..
 :bigGrin: