willieH: Hi Dante...
I have ONE issue that I disagree with you on and that is when you state: "As I see it, the "age abiding" thing has to do with this realm... and an "age" can be "limitless" TIME.. or it can be a MOMENT."
Sorry Dante, poor wording on my part.
I meant that an age can be quite long
or quite short
that's all... Thus my examples of the "duration" of a second...
"Limitless" was NOT what I meant to say, ... my apologies. (and I am going to correct it in my post!)
And btw... I agree on many levels with the Biblical conclusions of L. Ray Smith, and have had many email discussions with him.
Anyway, on to what you said that I think is VERY, VERY thought provoking!
First off I have Got to say that "TIME is the FIRE in which we burn" is one of the most Brilliant group of words that I have ever heard!!!!!
IT makes SO much sense!!!!
Me too! Not sure where I heard it, some quote in a movie... It was AFTER I had heard this, that I began to research the idea of THIS LIFE, as the LOF
... it was indeed a poetic and inspiring phrase... Maybe the writer had insight that he was revealing by saying this (i.e., he was "on to" this very idea of the LOF
- who knows?
You make a reference to time being long for one person and short for another. And I understand what you say. As the man with his hand on a stove and a man hugging his child, TIME is a totally different experience for each.
The next interesting thing you bring up is that Punishment is: NOT KNOWING GOD!
That would make sense if we are saying that THIS is the lake of fire, since GOD'S definition of Aionios life is Knowing God , it SHOULD be logical that NOT KNOWING GOD is Aionios punishment.
Again, I agree... Your discovery of the words in John 17
, I have already USED!
OK,…..so I am with you up until this point. But WHY does God state that he gives Aionios life to Chosen and Aionios correction to Non-Chosen and THEN mentions that he gives Aionios life to ALL that have been given to him?? Which is THE ALL anyway.
It seems kind of a messy way to explain things don't you think?
In His ETERNAL or completed, PURPOSE... ALL have been "given"... for CHRIST
was sent (1) To seek and save the LOST -- Luke 19:10
-- (2) NOT to condemn -- John 3:17
-- (3) to reconcile ALL THINGS unto YHVH
-- Col 1:20 -- 2 Cor 5:19
In seeking, not condemning and thus, reconciling ALL THINGS, some are chosen to KNOW Him, and others are NOT... such as the JEWS [God's NATURAL and chosen people] -- Rom 11:25
Many skip right by the STATEMENT that the JEWS are the "NATURAL
" branches, and because they are the "NATURAL
", they must WAIT upon the SPIRITUAL
which follows. This is the ORDER of GOD... and IS done continually. To include ...the SCRIPTURES
which came FIRST
... is the display and foundation of GOD dealing with MAN in the NATURAL
(eye for eye/Law)... and WHY it is superceded by the NT
which came SECOND
... AND which is GOD dealing with MAN in the SPIRIT
(forgiveness/Grace) -- 1 Cor 15:46
Ok, so IF I am understanding you correctly, and if this life is the LOF. We are either chosen to believe or not to believe. Once this is done, we die.
Now what happens??
EVERY Knee shall bow and EVERY tongue confess that JESUS
is LORD -- Phil 2:10-11
ISRAEL shall be SAVED
-- Rom 11:26
-- these things shall take place BEFORE the CONCLUSION of TIME on the LAST DAY (for the LAST DAY means no other "days" shall follow it)
As the Apostle Paul noted: 1 Tim 2:3-6
-- that the TESTIMONY of ALL shall occur along the lines of TIME (in due time)... Those "chosen" to KNOW CHRIST
... are "chosen" according to the ELECTION of YHVH
-- Rom 9:11
-- and that "election" is not due to any acts or non-acts of Good OR Evil, but according to the DECISION of God who is WORKING ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11
-- according to HIS WILL -- which also means that He IS ASSOCIATED with ALL that takes place (which is a whole other discussion)...
Is it just our FLESH that is keeping us back from being perfect?
SUFFERING is necessary for COMPLETION and PERFECTION -- Heb 2:10
-- we are ALL following in the footsteps of CHRIST
in the end, for HE
is the IMAGE -- Heb 1:3
-- and WE are being made in that IMAGE. So in that following of Him, do we each, suffer. The only difference is that HE SUFFERED for us (sinLESS
), to remove us FROM
When will the "ALL" have their Aionios life??
NO! You are living "aionios life" because you are chosen to KNOW CHRIST
...while... in the SINFUL state. MOST will not KNOW Him in this state.
Btw... there is another "PART" to this... it is CHRIST
... We are not COMPLETE in "knowing" unless we are "known", as well!
MANY "chosen" to KNOW CHRIST
, are NOT KNOWN of HIM! -- Matt 7:22-23
-- These mentioned in this passage ARE BELIEVERS, for they have SAID that CHRIST is Lord
, and this cannot be DONE except by GOD -- 1 Cor 12:3
-- However... the 2nd Part of the equation which is CHRIST
"KNOWING" them, is not present in them...
The Scripture which identifies the ones CHRIST
"knows" is -- John 10:27
-- when one is preaching the TRUTH and pointing to CHRIST
at ALL TIMES (saying as HE SAID -- "of myself, I can DO NOTHING"), ...one is thereby "HEARING His VOICE
" -- these in Matt 7:22-23
-- were DOING "their
" works... not HIS -- "have not ...WE..."
Those who are entered into His REST
, ...have CEASED from their own "works" -- Heb 4:10
And have thereby followed Him, in "doing NOTHING
...OF... themselves" as did CHRIST
-- John 5:19 & 30
Will it be after they die?
The "aionios" life is KNOWING Him, and vice-versa... And for most it shall be MOMENTARY within the LAST DAY, as they fall to KNEE and Call Him LORD, by HEARING His Voice... and laying ALL that they are, and ...DO...before Him... NOT as the [Matt 7:22-23
] ---> PHARISEE
(natural) "did and said"
-- Luke 18:10-14
-- but AS the ---> PUBLICAN
(spiritual) "did and said"!
(you do NOTHING of
I thought we are to put on immortality after death, which would SEEM to rule out any Aionios life.
As I pointed out earlier bro... the terms "aion & aionios" deal with TIME... and TIME is but a tool, which once the job it has been created for has been accomplished, is no longer necessary. A "MOMENT" can be considered a vast amount of TIME, depending upon the scenario (hand on a burner).
"IMMORTALITY" is found as LIFE in a COMPLETE state, ...when ALL THINGS have been JUDGED, and become KNOWN
... and THEN, it is "put on"...
So that once we die, even the NON Chosen will fall right in line with God because their FLESH is gone?
GOD is NO RESPECTER of persons (completely and perfectly IMPARTIAL)... the PARTS we "play" in KNOWING and NOT KNOWING CHRIST
, have to do with completing the SINGLE KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL for ALL
... and are ACCORDING to the WILL of GOD who is WORKING ALL THINGS which includes IMPARTIAL "election" to COMPLETE that agenda...
It is NOT (at all) about US, brother D... it is COMPLETELY about HIM! The "reward" we are to obtain, is the JOY
... which is to KNOW Him completely -- 1 Cor 15:28
WE are the Joy of YHVH
, given by HIM, to one another FOREVER...
ALL returning to where we "began"...
Remember... the "LOST
SON" was WITH
the Father, ...then left
... Luke 15:11-32
Everyone's sins are paid for through Jesus Christ. There is NO NEED for any more of that.
So is that IT!!??
IF SO,….I SAY COOL BEANS!!!
I would be amazed if that were the way it was. I could never figure out why God would punish anyone for NOT believing when he is the one who made someone believe or NOT believe in the first place.
Right on bro!
Man may devise but God directs his steps,…and I have chosen you and NOT you have chosen me. No man seeks after God,…NO NOT ONE!!
But being on this planet and having to play the part of the "GOOD GUY" or the "BAD GUY" is just a role given to us by God. And once all is said and done, we will ALL be with God and he will be ALL IN ALL!!
I think I have my loose strings almost all tied up!!
Again, ...right on bro!
If you, or anyone else, thinks I am "Off Base" on what I have said, please let me in on it!!
Thank you all.
And thank you willeH!
Not ME! I think you are right ON POINT!
Thank you as well, brother D!