Author Topic: is there a greek word for "eternity"  (Read 6558 times)

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jaareshiah

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2012, 04:59:02 PM »
From jaareshiah
"The word "eternal" can be applied to more than just God, for even the mountains are spoken of as being "eternal" at Habakkuk 3:6, saying: "And the eternal (Hebrew adh' ) mountains got to be smashed; the indefinitely lasting ("indefinitely lasting", Hebrew ohlam) hills bowed down. The walkings of long ago are his."

Of course eternal is used here as a figure of speech. Compared to the lifespan of a man they would certainly seem so. But we all know the Bible says these mountains will disappear so are not eternal.
Like when the Bible says, "God owns the cattle on 1,000 hills" it is again a figure of speech. God owns the cattle on 1,001 hills, on 1,002 hills, etc. basically ALL the hills. Why didn't it say ALL that the first time?
You surely don't think the hills actually bowed down did you?
The Bible and science are pretty clear. NOTHING CREATED can last forever, so wherever the Bible uses the word eternal and it is NOT in reference to God, they mean a comparatively lomg time.

You fail to grasp that the Bible uses figures of speech, play on words such as metaphors, similies, idioms and hyperboles throughout its pages, and in which alphabetic acrostics are also employed such as at Esther 1:20, whereby it says: ""It . . . and all the wives themselves will give." Hi' Wekhol-HanĚnaĚshim′ YitĚtenu′ (Heb.) appears to be a reverse acrostic of the Tetragrammaton, יהוה (YHWH). Three ancient Hebrew manuscrpts are known that give the letters of the divine name here in acrostic in majuscule (large printed) letters, as follows: היא וכל־הנשים יתנו. This is the first of four such acrostics of the name "Jehovah," and the Masorah in a rubric, or in red letters, calls attention to this.

Hence, Bible writers often used figures of speech just as we at times uses particular expressions in order to emphasize a point(s), as for example the "eternal mountains" at Habakkuk 3:6, in which Habakkuk said that when God "stood still, that he might shake up the earth", causing "nations to leap", so that "the eternal mountains got be smashed and the indefinitely lasting hills bowed down" and whereby symbolically "the tent cloths of the land of Midian began to be agitated....With denunciation you went marching [through] the earth. In anger you went threshing [the] nations."(Hab 3:6, 7, 12)

This pictures graphically the "day of Jehovah", portraying the "eternal mountains" as being smashed and bringing low "the indefinitely lasting hills", fitting representations of human organizations that seem so enduring, but that are "smashed" or ' brought low ' during the "great tribulation" in the near future.(Matt 24:15-21)

Of the "day of Jehovah", Amos says that "it will mean darkness, and no light" (Amos 5:18), portraying only a series of deep and death dealing troubles, for Amos continues saying that "just as when a man flees because of the lion, and the bear actually meets him; and [as when] he went into the house and supported his hand against the wall, and the serpent bit him. Will not the day of Jehovah be darkness, and not light; and will it not have gloom, and not brightness?"(Amos 5:19, 20)

Think of a man who flees from a lion and ends up meeting a bear. Running away from the bear, he takes refuge in a house. Panting for breath, he closes the door behind him and leans on the wall, only to be bitten by a snake. In a way, that is the destiny of the ones who are not really ready for the day of Jehovah.

Hence, the Bible is full of expressions, both literal and symbolic, that add meaning and vividness to what the Bible says. Many, though, are unable to "mentally put the pieces together".(meaning of the Greek word syniemi, that Jesus used 6 times at Matthew 13, G4920)


Offline ded2daworld

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2012, 06:38:17 PM »
Jaareshiah,
You quoted me as where i said something was a figure of speech and even gave an axample of the Bible using a figure of speech. You then stated outright that I failed to grasp (as if I was stupid) that the bible uses figures of speech.
With all the stuff you said, I didn't see a rebuttal of my main premise(in fact, why quote me at all when it looks like you didn't read it. Since we were talking about eternity, the main premise I made was:
The bible and science are absolutely clear. NOTHING CREATED can last forever.
Based on that fact, whenever the Bible refers to anything other than God (i.e. anything created) it does not and cannot mean literally eternal or eternally.
Truthfully, are you a Jehovah's Witness? You use a lot of their verbiage and are seeming to regurgitate what their leaders tell them. If your not a JW, you ought to read their stuff and see how much they agree with you.
 :gimmefive:
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 07:05:02 PM by ded2daworld »
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline dajomaco

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2012, 06:56:52 PM »
The hand of the beginning finds the end.
That which has not begun will never End.

The hand of the end grabs the beginning.
Exploding universe this is the beginning.

There is no bell curve to bend.
Righteousness eternally straight will never bend.

 There is a start and an end to all mans sinning.
Lifted up the souls of man Christ is winning.


Offline sheila

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2012, 07:21:30 PM »
...God angry...Psalms 18   the Deliverance of David/BELOVED[sure mercies] from Saul...

        from His temple He heard my voice,my cry came into His ears

       the earth trembled and quaked, the foundations of the mountain shook

       they trembled.......BECAUSE.......

        HE WAS ANGRY...................................................

    HE PARTED THE HEAVENS AND COME DOWN...................................HE MADE DARKNESS HIS COVERING

   HIS CANOPY AROUND HIM-THE DARK RAIN CLOUDS OF THE SKY[elijah..end of drought]

  out of the brightness of HIS PRESENCE CLOUDS ADVANCED WITH HAILSTONES AND BOLTS

  OF LIGHTENING..THE LORD THUNDERED.

      HE REACHED DOWN FROM ON HIGH AND TOOK HOLD OF ME......HE DREW ME OUT OF DEEP

     WATERS..........HE RESCUED ME FROM MY POWERFUL ENEMY

    oF JACOB'S TROUBLE..HE SHALL BE SAVED OUT OF IT[DOOR OF HOPE OPENED= NAME CHANGE


     sUPPOSE ONE OF YOU HAS A FRIEND AND HE GOES TO HIM AT MIDNITE AND  SAYS..

  'FRIEND LEND ME THREE LOAVES OF BREAD,BECAUSE A FRIEND OF MINE ON A JOURNEY

   AND I HAVE NOTHING TO SET BEFORE HIM.

    THEN THE ONE INSIDE ANSWERS..'DON'T TROUBLE ME  THE DOOR IS ALREADY LOCKED

  AND MY CHILDREN ARE WITH ME IN BED/REST[SEE PARABLE TEN VIRGINS]

   I CAN'T GET UP AND GIVE YOU ANYTHING.  I TELL YOU THAT THOUGH HE WILL NOT GET UP

  AND GIVE HIM BREAD BECAUSE HE IS A FRIEND,YET BECAUSE HE KEEPS TROUBLING HIM

  HE WILL GET UP AND GIVE HIM AS MUCH AS HE NEEDS

   ASK...SEEK...KNOCK.....THE DOOR WILL BE OPENED..........................

   HOW MUCH MORE YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN

   ISAAIH65;10    THE VALLEY OF ACHOR[TROUBLE] A RESTING PLACE FOR HERDS


  JOEL 2;32  JEREMIAH 15;21  DANIEL 12;1  PSALMS 84;6  2 CHRON 20;26  ISAAIH 65;10

jaareshiah

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2012, 08:23:25 PM »
Jaareshiah,
You quoted me as where i said something was a figure of speech and even gave an axample of the Bible using a figure of speech. You then stated outright that I failed to grasp (as if I was stupid) that the bible uses figures of speech.
With all the stuff you said, I didn't see a rebuttal of my main premise(in fact, why quote me at all when it looks like you didn't read it. Since we were talking about eternity, the main premise I made was:
The bible and science are absolutely clear. NOTHING CREATED can last forever.
Based on that fact, whenever the Bible refers to anything other than God (i.e. anything created) it does not and cannot mean literally eternal or eternally.
Truthfully, are you a Jehovah's Witness? You use a lot of their verbiage and are seeming to regurgitate what their leaders tell them. If your not a JW, you ought to read their stuff and see how much they agree with you.
 :gimmefive:

I did not mean to imply that you are "stupid", but rather that the meaning of "eternal mountains" is not understood by most at Habakkuk 3, as well throughout the Bible, failing to grasp the significant meanings of the different idioms, figures of speech, metaphors and similes.

Of being able to "mentally put the pieces together" (Greek syniemi) regarding these often symbolic expressions, most are unable to accomplish this.(Matt 13:13, 14) It alludes them, though some profess that they are "wise and intellectual" concerning the Bible, having perhaps a vast storehouse of knowledge.(Matt 11:25)

And concerning that "NOTHING CREATED can last last forever", is not true. At Psalms 37:29, it says that "the righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever ("forever", Hebrew 'ad )." Jesus confirmed this at Matthew 5:5, saying: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."

And at Psalms 104:5, it says that God "has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite (Hebrew ohlam), or forever (Hebrew 'ad )." Thus, both "meek" or teachable ones and the earth will remain forever, always existing as the "meek" ones inheritance, for God's original purpose of the earth becoming a paradise will be fulfilled.(Luke 23:43)

The meaning of the Hebrew word 'ad is further seen at Psalms 10:16, which says: "Jehovah is King to time indefinite (Hebrew ohlam), even forever (Hebrew 'ad )" as well at Psalms 21:4, in which David writes: "Life he (king David) asked of you. You gave it to him, Length of days to time indefinite (Hebrew ohlam), even forever (Hebrew 'ad )."

David is assured by Jehovah God that he can have "length of days to time indefinite, even forever" by his ever "trusting" in him (Ps 21:7), for during the "thousand year"reign of Jesus Christ in the near future (Rev 20:6), David will the opportunity of being resurrected from the dead and the prospect of living forever on the earth as a "meek" one.(John 5:28, 29)

Of the Hebrew word ohlam, according to Hebrew authority William Gesenius, it means "hidden time, i. e. obscure and long, of which the beginning or end is uncertain or indefinite." And yes, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 05:44:24 AM by jaareshiah »

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2012, 08:32:31 PM »
Jaareshiah,
I knew you were. Thank you for being truthful and admitting it. I'll also be truthful and admit to you that20 years ago I was a missionary to the JW's. I know if another JW reads any answer from you that doesn't toe the party line you could be disfellowshipped so I'll understand if you don't answer some of my questions.
I guess I shouldn't have used the word "party" but i didn't mean it like a party "party"
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline sheila

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2012, 11:14:10 PM »
 I was called out of Jehovah's wittness also.

jaareshiah

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2012, 11:29:23 PM »
Jaareshiah,
I knew you were. Thank you for being truthful and admitting it. I'll also be truthful and admit to you that20 years ago I was a missionary to the JW's. I know if another JW reads any answer from you that doesn't toe the party line you could be disfellowshipped so I'll understand if you don't answer some of my questions.
I guess I shouldn't have used the word "party" but i didn't mean it like a party "party"

What do you mean by "missionary to the JW's" ?

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2012, 12:07:13 AM »
I ran a support group for people that had been disfellowshipped, had realized the truth about the organization, and or had friends or family members that were still "working" for their salvation through the organization. Whenever someone knew someone that was in JW's they would try to set up an introduction. Most were fearful, some were willing to listen. Some knew the organization was wrong but feared losing family/children and/or friends. The fact that you're here shows that there is the possibility of an open mind unless you're chalking time spent here as you're "witnessing time."

The interesting thing is many many came "out" after doing nothing more than reading even the New World translation rather than the organizations publications and contemplating some questions. (Some I posed earlier)
Statistically, there are four pages of organization literature to read for every 1 page of scripture. I believe I'm one of the few people in the world that has never been a witness but have read the New World translation in it's entirety.
It seems because the "translators" that had almost no knowledge of the greek or Hebrew there was stuff that they missed or didn't realize what they were writing was contradictory and much was left in that STILL pointed to Jesus as God incarnate and our Saviour.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

jaareshiah

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2012, 04:13:59 AM »
My purpose here is as Jesus said to Pilate: "For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth."(John 18:37) Jesus bore witness to his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, which the churches have hidden his name by supplanting it with either "Lord" or "God", though his name is in the original manuscripts some 7,000 times in the form of the Tetragramatton (Greek meaning "four letters", YHWH)

You are certainly not the 1st person to condemn the New World Translation especially because of the trinity. But myself, having examined it in conjunction with both Hebrew and Greek manuscripts over the years and continues to do so, making sure of its accuracy, considering the inflection of verbs, as well as the tenses, combined with the context and morphology, I have concluded that the New World Translation is indeed accurate, unlike the King James Bible that has bent itself considerably to hide God's name, Jehovah, and mistranslate thousands of words, causing confusion.

Dr. Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, said over 20 years ago: "In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. In so doing, I find my feeling repeatedly confirmed that this work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the text that is as accurate as possible. Giving evidence of a broad command of the original language, it renders the original words into a second language understandably without deviating unnecessarily from the specific structure of the Hebrew. . . . Every statement of language allows for a certain latitude in interpreting or translating. So the linguistic solution in any given case may be open to debate. But I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the text that it does not contain."(quoted in the March 1, 1991 Watchtower)

Following this quotation of Professor Kedar's comments in the above Watchtower article, he received much mail from those who wanted to know if he had been quoted correctly and by those who had a different view point from his. He replied to some, but, from a certain time, sent out a statement instead.(his quotation was upon the agreement that it be quoted in full)

He responded (in 1995): "Since several individuals and institutions have addressed me concerning the following matter, I make this statement; henceforth it will be sent instead of a personal letter to anyone appealing to me to clarify my position.

"1) Several years ago I quoted the so-called New World Translation among several Bible versions in articles that dealt with purely philological [pertaining to the study/science of languages] questions(such as the rendition of the causative hiphil, of the particple qotel). In the course of my comparative studies I found the NWT rather illuminating: it gives evidence of an acute awareness of the structural characteristics of hebrew as well as an honest effort to faithfully render these in the target [English] language. A translation is bound to be a compromise, and as such it's details are open to criticism; this applies to the NWT too. In the portion corresponding to the hebrew Bible, however, I have never come upon an obviously erroneous rendition which would find it's explanation in a dogmatic bias. Repeatedly I have asked the antagonists of the Watchtower-Bible who turned to me for a clarification of my views, to name specific verses for a renewed scrutiny. This was either not done or else the verse submitted (e.g. Genesis 4:13, 6:3, 10:9, 15:5, 18:20 etc.) did not prove the point, namely a tendentious [with a purposed aim/biased] translation."

"2) I beg to make clear that I do not feel any sympathy for any sect and this includes Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, my mistrust is not directed against the individual member of such sect but rather against the organisation that manipulates him and puts forward its dogmas and rules as the ultimate truth. It should be conceded, however, that the groups and organisations that fiercely oppose the witnesses do not behave any better. On the whole, synagogue, church and mosque also tend to exhibit dogmatic arrogance coupled with intolerance of and enmity with other confessions."

"3) I cannot help expressing my deep conviction that the search for truth will never benefit by linguistic quibble. Whether the author using the word naephaesh denoted 'soul' as opposed to body(Lev 17:11) or meant something else, whether 'almah' means 'virgin' or 'young woman'(Is 7:14) is of great interest to philologists and historians of religion; an argument for or against blood transfusion or the virgin-birth of Jesus respectively, cannot be derived from it."

"4) Obviously, it is man's destiny to make the choice of his way a matter of conscience and to the best of his knowledge. There exists no simple set of rules such as could be learned from the mouth of a guru or the pages of an ancient venerable book. Those who pretend to act according to an infallible guide, more often than not interpret the texts in accordance with their preconceived wishes and notions."

Some seek to undermine the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses.(2 Corinthians 11:13) Rather than simply use the Bible as the basis for true teachings, they concentrate on trying to discredit the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, as if Jehovah's Witnesses were wholly dependent on it for support. But this is not so.

For the best part of a century, the Witnesses used primarily the King James Version, the Roman Catholic Douay Version, or whatever versions were available in their language, to learn the truth about Jehovah and his purposes. And they used these older versions in proclaiming the truth about the condition of the dead, the relationship between God and his Son, and why only a little flock go to heaven.

Informed persons are also aware that Jehovah's Witnesses continue to use many translations of the Bible in their worldwide evangelizing work. Since 1961, however, they have additionally enjoyed the use of the New World Translation, with its updated, accurate translation and fine readability.

Online jabcat

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2012, 04:22:41 AM »
Do they believe in salvation by grace alone, through the gift of faith in Yeshua Moschiach and His saving work on the cross [tree/stake] - His shed blood as the all-sufficient sacrifice for our sins? 

If they do, great. 

Paul said he preached the whole counsel of God.  He preached salvation  by faith in Yeshua through His finished work of salvation on the cross [stake/tree].  "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,  not of works, lest anyone should boast.  Ephesians 2:8,9

For Christ didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News--and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power.  I Cor. 1:17

If they don't, IMO, that's a grave concern.

 But even if ever I, or a Messenger from heaven, should bring a "good message" to you that
goes beyond the one that I have brought to you, a curse upon him!  Galatians 1:8
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 06:11:12 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2012, 01:50:58 PM »
Jaareshiah,
I'm kinda surprised #2 statement didn't bother you since the man said outright JW's are being manipulated by the organization.
...and I'm not rying to undermine the witnesses, I'm simply encouraging to read the word of God. If you insist on using the New World translation, it's certainly better than the organizations publications.
By the way, I never use the king James version either. Read thru it once and that was enough.
The error in "being witness to the truth" is the organization has told you that "the truth" was evil christians removing the name of Jehovah from the Bible while proclaiming the systematic removal of the name Jesus from their songbooks.
"Being Witness to the truth" would actually mean telling people the good news about salvation through Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life.
I do hope you take some time and contemplate some of the questions I posed earlier in the discussion. If you do though, I will be somewhat surprised as that and Jesus discussions are considered "spiritual pornography" by the organization.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2012, 02:35:51 PM »
It's possible you may answer Jabcat and his question. You are an unusual witness in that you're even participating in this discussion board and you answered honestly about being a witness.
I didn't ask you if you were a witness to put you down. It was to find out what you're mindset is.
If someone tells me they are a Baptist, Mormon, Church of Christ, Catholic, Methodist, etc. I know what their particular group believes and usually even why. Sometimes, like Mormons, about 70% have almost no idea about some of the "secret doctrines" that the church holds.
I think Jabcat already knows but Witnesses do NOT believe in salvation by grace alone by his shed blood on the cross/torture stake.  They err greatly by believing that verses concerning Jesus are for the 144,00 and not them. (They believe that only 144,000 are going to be with Jesus in heaven) and Jehovah has the organizational plan for them (the rest) here are a few verses from the New World Translation many here are familiar with:

Rom 6:23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting
life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 10:9  9 Foi if you publicly declare that 'word in your own mouth,' that Jesus
is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him
up from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 14:11 11 for it is written: "'As I live,' says Jehovah, 'to me every knee will bend down, and every tongue will
make open acknowledgment to God.' "

Phil 2:09-11   For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior positions and kindly gave him the name that is above
every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground,11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Makes me wonder why the made up name of "Jehovah" is considered by Witnesses to be greater than the name Jesus which is above every other name.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline thinktank

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2012, 08:25:08 PM »
But Jehoavh witnesses believe in a restored earth for All. They were one of the first that introduced me to universal salvation.

Although it was the IBS that I read about a part of the watchtowersociety. The witnesses are an ofshhot of this orginization and have changed many of the originaldoctrines.


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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2012, 10:17:47 PM »
But Jehoavh witnesses believe in a restored earth for All. They were one of the first that introduced me to universal salvation.


I don't understand what you're saying tank.  It's my understanding they believe in annihilation for most of humanity, and the restored earth is for jehovah's witnesses that don't "make it to heaven".  I had one say to me once when discussing something,  "I don't want to lose my eternal life".
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2012, 10:32:48 PM »
For me the word eternity, seeing the word is only used once in the whole Bible Isa. 57:15 will remain mostly unexplained without just guessing. Rotherham says "Inhabiting futurity or (progress)" and I am satisfied with that, for me there is nothing to compare it to, except what man's dictionary contends.
I don't believe the Greeks new much about the word "eternity" because they didn't use it, right? (imo)
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2012, 12:08:09 AM »
the Hebrew word "olam" is the word that the Greeks translated to "aion" and then the English translators rendered "forever, eternal, world, age" -kinda whatever they wanted to with little consistency in the new testament

"Ad", the Hebrew word translated forever in Isaiah 57:15 occurs over 50 times in the old testament

ad
From H5710; properly a (peremptory) terminus, that is, (by implication) duration, in the sense of perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition): - eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.

In my experience, reading many lexicons, commentaries, dictionaries etc..... there is a lot of disagreement on the exact meanings of these words.

One interesting verse is

"The LORD shall reign forever(olam olam) and ever(ad)."
(Exo 15:18)

The Lord shall reign olam olam ad...."world without end" or "ages without end" or "Unknowable terminus" would all be scholarly translations.


"Olam" for certain, is a word that draws its meaning from context and the subject it is attached to, I think ad may be the same.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

jaareshiah

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2012, 03:09:20 AM »
I ran a support group for people that had been disfellowshipped, had realized the truth about the organization, and or had friends or family members that were still "working" for their salvation through the organization. Whenever someone knew someone that was in JW's they would try to set up an introduction. Most were fearful, some were willing to listen. Some knew the organization was wrong but feared losing family/children and/or friends. The fact that you're here shows that there is the possibility of an open mind unless you're chalking time spent here as you're "witnessing time."

The interesting thing is many many came "out" after doing nothing more than reading even the New World translation rather than the organizations publications and contemplating some questions. (Some I posed earlier)
Statistically, there are four pages of organization literature to read for every 1 page of scripture. I believe I'm one of the few people in the world that has never been a witness but have read the New World translation in it's entirety.
It seems because the "translators" that had almost no knowledge of the greek or Hebrew there was stuff that they missed or didn't realize what they were writing was contradictory and much was left in that STILL pointed to Jesus as God incarnate and our Saviour.

Those that have been disfellowshipped from Jehovah's Witnesses have shown themselves as unrepentant of the wrongs committed in violation of God's word. Jesus said of a certain situation, that "if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."(Matt 18:15-17)

How did the Jews feel about "a man of the nations" or Gentiles ? Peter told Cornelius: "You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to join himself to or approach a man of another race; and yet God has shown me I should call no man defiled or unclean."(Acts 10:28) And of "tax collectors" ? They definitely avoided tax collectors, men who were born Jewish but who turned into misusers of the people.(Luke 5:30)

In addition, Jesus said that some would initially accept his words, but would later abandon them when persecution arose. At Matthew 13, Jesus said that "when the sun rose they were scorched, and because of not having root they withered."(Matt 13:6)

Jesus explained what this meant, saying: "As for the one sown upon the rocky places, this is the one hearing the word and at once accepting it with joy. Yet he has no root in himself but continues for a time, and after tribulation or persecution has arisen on account of the word he is at once stumbled."(Matt 13:20, 21)

These then allow others to dissuade them from serving Jehovah God, listening to false reasoning or feeling "the heat" from those who strongly condemn Jehovah's Witnesses. They are "at once stumbled", perhaps now "getting on the bandwagon" and make scathing remarks concerning the Witnesses, saying that they were "mislead". The pressure may be off, but they have then ' disowned the owner that brought them'.(2 Pet 2:1)

Some of these that were formerly Jehovah's Witnesses have ' followed their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth (is)...spoken of abusively", exploiting many with "counterfeit words".(2 Pet 2:2, 3) The apostle Paul wrote that loyal servants of Jehovah God are not to be "mixing in company" with anyone disfellowshipped, "not even eating" with them.(1 Cor 5:11,13)






« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 05:46:43 AM by jaareshiah »

Offline eaglesway

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2012, 05:22:21 AM »
What you have written assumes that God has given the Jehovah's Witnesses, as an organization, the sole responsibility for carrying the standard of truth, and that fellowship within the context of the Jehovah's Witnesses is the only approved fellowship of God. :director:

Unfortunate. :sigh:

"I will not dwell in a house made of stone" Rather He dwells with those who have a broken and a contrite heart  :HeartThrob:

God knows how men tend to seek power and control over one another. It is a form of wickedness for which He created chaos, so that all our attempts to build little 'towers of Babel' would fail. :punish:

Thank God for it.  :friendstu:

Our house is a "house of prayer for all people". It's builder and maker is God. We are the stones with which it is being built and Jesus is the chief cornerstone- the stone from which all else is aligned. This house has "foundations in the heavens" :cloud9:

It is being built of "living stones", "fitly joined together", "in the bond of peace and the unity of the Spirit"- held fast by the "mortar of brotherly love".  :grouppray:

Their is no earthly organization that can contain our house. Of earthly organizations our Lord says, "Not one stone will be left standing upon another".  :BangHead:

"For freedom Christ has set you free, why submit again to a yoke of bondage?" :bdh:

"If you continue in My Word you shall know the truth, AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE"  :dsunny:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Online jabcat

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2012, 06:07:57 AM »
..Jehovah's Witnesses..


Do they believe in salvation by grace alone, through the gift of faith in Yeshua Moschiach and His saving work on the cross [tree/stake] - His shed blood as the all-sufficient sacrifice for our sins? 

Paul said he preached the whole counsel of God.  He preached salvation  by faith in Yeshua through His finished work of salvation on the cross [stake/tree].  "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,  not of works, lest anyone should boast.  Ephesians 2:8,9

For Christ didn't send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News--and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power.  I Cor. 1:17

 But even if ever I, or a Messenger from heaven, should bring a "good message" to you that
goes beyond the one that I have brought to you, a curse upon him!  Galatians 1:8



It's possible you may answer Jabcat and his question. You are an unusual witness in that you're even participating in this discussion board and you answered honestly about being a witness.

I think Jabcat already knows but Witnesses do NOT believe in salvation by grace alone by his shed blood on the cross/torture stake.  They err greatly by believing that verses concerning Jesus are for the 144,00 and not them. (They believe that only 144,000 are going to be with Jesus in heaven) and Jehovah has the organizational plan for them (the rest) here are a few verses from the New World Translation many here are familiar with:

 God exalted him to a superior positions and kindly gave him the name that is above
every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground,11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord
to the glory of God the Father.

Makes me wonder why the made up name of "Jehovah" is considered by Witnesses to be greater than the name Jesus which is above every other name.


I had thought of asking your understanding further, ded,  but I saw your above post tonight. 

Re: Jehovah;  From the Forward of The Christian Bible (1991), one of the most literal translations (from the Koine Greek) available today;

"Jesus vs. Yesu:
The first English Bible to be translated from the Greek (Tyndale's, 1525)
had "Iesu" and "Iesus," while the first edition of the KJV of the Bible(1611) had "Iesus."
 Until about the late 1600s "i" and "j" were only
different forms of the same letter; and when this letter was a vowel, it had
either the sound of the "i" in "police" or "pin," while when it was a
consonant, it had the sound of the "y" in "yet." During the 1700s it
became common to separate the two, and to use the "i" for the vowel
sounds, and the "j" for the consonant sound ("yet").
By the early 1800s the "j" had lost its "y" sound and taken on its
present sound, the sound of the soft "g" as in "jet"; and the "y" had lost
its "u" sound ("up") and taken on its present sound, the consonant "i" as
in "yet." So even as late as the 1700s "Iesus" or "Jesus" was pronounced
"Yeh-soos," and not "Gee-zuss" as is popular today.
This name in the Greek has three different spellings, depending
on its case: the nominative case is "Yesus" ("Yeh-soos"); the accusative
case is "Yesun" ("Yeh-soon"); and the vocative, genative, and dative
cases are "Yesu" ("Yeh-sue"). When His first students called to Him,
such as in Mark 10:47, they used the vocative case and said, "Yesu." So
it seems most proper for us to transliterate this name as "Yesu," which is
both the vocative spelling and the root of all three spellings.
In the Old Contract Writings ("Old Testament") God's name in
Hebrew was spelled with four letters (Yodh-He-Waw-He). When using
our alphabet, it is usually transliterated as "YHWH," but since all of
these letters can also be vowels, it could also be transliterated as "IEUE."
Some would say God's name in the Hebrew Writings was "Jehovah" or
"Yahweh," but these are merely [either] ignorant [or] educated corruptions from
the Masoretic tradition.
Notice that the second and fourth letters are the
same; so the literal pronunciation of this word is "ee-eh-oo-eh" and is
best spelled as "Yehweh."
With the coming of His Son to the earth, God revealed that He is our
Savior by means of His Son. Also, by this time Jews had refused to ever
say God's name ("Yehweh") out of fear that they might say His name in
vain. So God modified His name to "Yesu" which in Hebrew means
"Yehweh-Savior," and also gave this name to His Son (see John 17:11-12).

 
from  http://www.bibleprofessor.com/files/Jehovah.pdf
"1. It is possible to combine the vowels of 'Adonay and JHVH and form the nonsense word
Jehovah. This course has been followed by the American Standard Version (1901), seven times
in the King James Version (1611), and by the New World Translation of Jehovah Witnesses.
The only possible argument that can be offered in favor of this approach is that it calls attention to the fact that the personal name for God is being used. Against this approach the following points can be raised.
 
a. It is unnatural and unscholarly to combine the vowels of the substitute word (the so called qeri) and the consonants of the written word (the so-called ketiv).
b. It is inconsistent to always combine the vowels of 'Adonay with JHVH when in fact
numerous times the vowels of 'Elohim are actually used in the text. If the translators were consistent, the name in these passages should be Jehovih.
c. It is misleading to imply by usage that Jehovah is the name of God when in fact Jehovah is a nonsense name."
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:21:35 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2012, 03:35:31 PM »
Jaareshiah said, "Those that have been disfellowshipped from Jehovah's Witnesses have shown themselves as unrepentant of the wrongs committed in violation of God's word."
You are either unaware or you are intentionally misleading. The only "sin" the unrepentant ones are guilty of is disagreeing witht the organization. One MUST believe (or at least say they beleive) every single doctrine of the JW's to the letter with no exceptions. This even includes doctrine which have changed. (called new light) Because no one is permitted to talk to these disfellowshipped persons, most have no idea WHY the person was disfellowshipped, other than "unrepentant of the wrongs committed in violation of God's word." One of the members of my group was disfellowshipped because he invited some friends over and called it a "party" In witness circles, you can be disfellowshipped for that. However, if you do the same exact thing and call it a "gathering" you're OK.  A mother, 3 doors down from me when I lived in Margate Florida was almost disfellowshipped over allowing her 10 year old daughter to play with my ten year old daughter. The 2 former friends never spoke to each other again and my daughter was to be treated as a disfellowshipped JW even though she had no idea what JW's believed.
The truth is Jaareshiah,
Having the Lord Jehovah Jesus find you and have you born again spiritually from above and have the Holy Spirit come to reside in your body, will get you disfellowshipped so fast your head will spin because you cannot be repentant for entering a love relationship with God rather than the organization.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 05:06:01 PM by ded2daworld »
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline micah7:9

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2012, 04:51:29 PM »
Heavy.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2012, 05:17:15 PM »
I forgot to mention. A Jehovah Witness can be caught in adultery or murder or both.
If he escapes Jail and is repentant, he is welcome in the organization.
If a witness confesses that he believes Jesus is God in the flesh and/or that Jesus IS Jehovah and is NOT repentant of what he said, He will be disfellowshipped forever.
To the JW, eternal life is being a member of the Jehovah Witness organization at the time of Armageddon. Not a member, you will be disintegrated for all eternity so one can see why disfellowshipping is a big deal to the average JW.
and by the way, JW's believe that Jesus was NOT resurrected and was not "made alive". They believe the man Jesus is dead, forever dead. They believe Jehovah re-created a being that has all the mind and charateristics of the former Jesus who they also believe is Michael the archangel!
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline dajomaco

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2012, 06:05:29 PM »
God knows how men tend to seek power and control over one another. It is a form of wickedness for which He created chaos, so that all our attempts to build little 'towers of Babel' would fail.

Wonderfully insightful and very concisely put . :iagree:


Offline micah7:9

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Re: is there a greek word for "eternity"
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2012, 06:12:48 PM »
God knows how men tend to seek power and control over one another. It is a form of wickedness for which He created chaos, so that all our attempts to build little 'towers of Babel' would fail.

Wonderfully insightful and very concisely put . :iagree:

 :iagree:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.