Author Topic: hebrews 9:26 ?  (Read 5422 times)

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Offline lomarah

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2012, 10:11:51 PM »
In a major way it does = dying to self. Life before kids: do whatever you want whenever you want. Life after kids: have to get a sitter just to have a shower LOL. (I'm exaggerating... a little.) It's very worth it though. I think most parents can vouch that we would die for our kids anyhow. :)
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2012, 10:16:03 PM »
As far as I can figure out the curtain was huge.
20 meters = 22 yards high. 10 meters = 11 yards wide.
It was a hand palm thick.
It took 300 priests to carry it. Estimated weigth 4-6 tons.

When comparing the many small doors to the rest of the bulding they can't be 20 meters high.
Besides the fact that they are doors and not curtains.
The centurion saw it happen; so but be viewable from mt. Olives.
It's also reasonbly to assume it's the curtain that's most important. Not some minor curtain without importance. It would be to small to see from the crucifixion spot.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 03:08:06 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2012, 01:31:26 PM »
I would say this eon is the holy place, the realm of pentecost.
That would mean past the Laver (LoF imo)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2012, 03:04:46 PM »
The Two Veils

   At last this brings us to the subject of the veils. Now there are two distinct veils in the NT. The first is the veil of the temple (Matt. 27: 51, Mark 15: 38, Luke 23: 45) and the second is the veil of the tabernacle (Heb. 6: 19, 9: 3, 10: 20). The temple veil was rent when Christ died; the tabernacle veil was never rent. Both facts are of equal importance although many speak of 'the rent veil' as if there was only one. To understand the difference between these two veils, one must understand something of the contrast between the temple and the tabernacle.

 


More: http://judev3.co.uk/59TwoVeilsNotOne.htm
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2012, 03:05:58 PM »
#27 Veil of the Temple

And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made... and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy. - Exodus 26:31,33

Text: Mark 15:38

Prop: a small curtain

Summary: God used the veil of the temple as a barrier to access the Holiest of Holies. This separation ended as He became the mediator between God and man.

Today I want to share with you about a curtain, or veil, that was placed to separate the sanctuary from the Holiest of Holies in the tabernacle. It was actually a veil that served to separate God from man. This portion of the tabernacle was entered into once a year by the high priest to make an atonement, or sin offering, for the whole nation of Israel.

There is something else I want to explain. It has to do with tearing of the robe. If a king were really mad about something, to show his displeasure, he would tear or rend his robe from top to bottom. He would start at the collar and tear it until he exposed his undergarments and that was shameful. It meant that he was really upset about whatever had happened. 

When Jesus was crucified for our sins on the cross, some amazing things happened. For one thing, there was a supernatural darkness that covered the land for three hours while Jesus hung on the cross. He willingly gave up his spirit; it was not taken from him by the crucifixion. A great earthquake shook the ground when he died. In Matthew 27:51 the Bible says And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. Imagine that! It was God the Father that was upset that Jesus had died. He showed his indignation by tearing the veil of the temple in two from top to bottom. The veil which separated God from man had been removed by the sacrifice Jesus made for our sins. Jesus, not a high priest, was now the mediator between God and man. All who seek forgiveness of sins must ask Jesus. He is the One that paid the price for all mankind.

The writer of Hebrews said it eloquently in Hebrews 10:19-22 "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having a high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2012, 03:31:05 PM »
So if the outer veil was rent, then I'd say we're in pentecost, and the separation between the inner court and the outer court was removed.  Those two courts make up the second resurrection possibly (wheat being threshed in the wine press).  Only those who are in Christ enter into the HOH, the first resurrection.  As far as the laver being the LOF and us being in the outer court age, it says everyone is salted with fire, and the saints are present during the testing in the LOF of those requiring refining, so I don't know if the laver is only for outer court.  Or since outer and inner are now one in essence then we are in a hybrid of pentecost/passover, which would describe the church at large.  Gifts vs. cessation of gifts, baptists vs. pentecostals etc.

Ultimately  :dontknow:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2012, 05:29:23 PM »
So if the outer veil was rent, then I'd say we're in pentecost, and the separation between the inner court and the outer court was removed.  Those two courts make up the second resurrection possibly (wheat being threshed in the wine press).  Only those who are in Christ enter into the HOH, the first resurrection.  As far as the laver being the LOF and us being in the outer court age, it says everyone is salted with fire, and the saints are present during the testing in the LOF of those requiring refining, so I don't know if the laver is only for outer court. 

Barley = Overcomers in "The Holy of Holies" *
Wheat = believers in "The Holy"
Grapes = Nations in "The court" = "This eon"

That would mean different groups live in different eons... A whole new approach.... :-)

*= There are 3 ages in "The Holy of Holies" ?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2012, 05:29:54 PM »
TEMPLE OF HEROD:
Table of Contents
Dimensions.
The Temple Courts.
The Cloisters.
The Gates.

In the eighteenth year (20-19 B.C.) of his reign Herod rebuilt the Temple on a more magnificent scale. There are many evidences that he shared the passion for building by which many powerful men of that time were moved. He had adorned many cities and had erected many heathen temples; and it was not fitting that the temple of his capital should fall beneath these in magnificence. Probably, also, one of his motives was to placate the more pious of his subjects, whose sentiments he had often outraged.

The Jews were loth to have their Temple pulled down, fearing lest it might not be rebuilt. To demonstrate his good faith, Herod acccumulated the materials for the new building before the old one was taken down. The new Temple was rebuilt as rapidly as possible, being finished in a year and a half, although work was in progress on the out-buildings and courts for eighty years. As it was unlawful for any but priests to enter the Temple, Herod employed 1,000 of them as masons and carpenters.

Dimensions.
The Temple proper as reconstructed by Herod was of the same dimensions as that of Solomon, viz.: 60 cubits long, 20 cubits wide, and 40 cubits high. This space was divided into the Holy of Holies and the "Hekal." The former measured 20 x 20 cubits; the latter, 20 x 40 ("B.J." v. 5, 5). At the entrance to the outer Temple hung a veil embroidered in blue, white (byssus), scarlet, and purple; the outer Temple was separated from the Holy of Holies by a similar curtain.

<----two veils in Herod's Temple

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14304-temple-of-herod



Offline Molly

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2012, 05:49:40 PM »
The only mention of the Ark in the Prophets is the reference to it by Jeremiah, who, speaking in the days of Josiah (Jer. iii. 16), prophesies a time when the Ark will no longer be needed because of the righteousness of the people.

In the Psalms the Ark is twice referred to. In Ps. lxxviii. 61 its capture by the Philistines is spoken of, and the Ark is called "the strength and glory of God"; and in Ps. cxxxii. 8, it is spoken of as "the ark of the strength of the Lord." The Ark is mentioned in only one passage in the Apocrypha (II Macc. ii. 4-10), which contains a legend to the effect that the prophet Jeremiah, "being warned of God," took the Ark, and the tabernacle, and the altar of incense, and buried them in a cave on Mount Sinai, informing those of his followers who wished to find the place that it should remain unknown "until the time that God should gather His people again together, and receive them unto mercy."

--Jewish Encyclopedia

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1777-ark-of-the-covenant

In  Herod's Temple, the Holy of Holies was empty.  There was no Ark of the Covenant.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2012, 05:58:29 PM »
I think the tabernacle is the ideal pattern.  I don't think there are any prescriptions for much of what makes up the most recent temple.  There is no description of Solomons is there?

If thats the case then its all veils, 3 of them.
The second Temple was exactly (God gave very strickt dimensions) like Solomon's Temple. But later Herod renovated/enlarged it.




The GREENsquare represents  Solomon's original Temple compound.
The
BLUEsquare represents Herod's enlarged Temple compound when he enlarged the size of the old complex on the North, West, and South before 70 AD

The
RED  square in the middle represents the partition wall (soreg) that no gentile could go beyond, to do so would mean certain death.

 
http://www.oocities.org/theseder2/templeDiagram.html
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...