Author Topic: hebrews 9:26 ?  (Read 4718 times)

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Offline erwan

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hebrews 9:26 ?
« on: July 14, 2012, 05:34:16 PM »
why is not it written "abolish" in this verse, in the young's literal translation ?
is not sin destroyed ? it is putting away
why ? thank you for your help

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012, 06:39:29 AM »
Hi Erwan,

"putting away" doesn't mean something like "store for later use".
It means

ἀθέτησις
athetēsis
Thayer Definition:
1) abolition, disannulling, put away, rejection

ἀθέτησις
athétēsis; gen. athetḗseōs, fem. noun from athetéō (G114), to abrogate. Cancellation, disannulling. In Heb 7:18, it refers to the natural abrogation or annulment of the commandment for the sacrifice of animals in that it was weak and unprofitable. Such sacrifice was set aside by the death of Christ which could not only justify the sinner before God, but also render the sinner just. Christ's death changed the character of the sinner (Rom 5:19). In Heb 9:26, it is used similarly, indicating the putting away or the abolition of the animal sacrifices since their benefit was not permanent. The death of Jesus Christ is presented as a once-and-for-all sacrifice with permanent effect and thus naturally to be preferred. One cannot accept the permanent sacrifice of Christ and keep the recurring sacrifices of animals. The one naturally replaced the other.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 06:58:47 AM »
The following verses give extra information.

v20: Tells us there is a blood convenant.

v21-23: Tells us that the priest had to sprinkle blood in the Temple and on the things they used on daily basis. (even more than once a day)

v23: Jesus never entered into the most holy places of the Temple building made of stone. (He wasn't a Levite priest)

v24: This verse tell us the Temple made of stone is just a reprensatation/pattern of the real Temple. That Temple is in heaven.

v25: This verse states Jesus didn't offer His own blood often (just once). But the high priests did offer blood many times. The verse also mentions the priests didn't use thier own (human) blood. That's they used blood of animals.

v26: This verse explains if He had to sprinkle His blood more than once it woul mean He had to do so thousands of times. Foundation of the world is creation of the world.

v27: Jesus died once. Mankind dies once. God judges once.

v28: Jesus will return.



(Heb 9:20) saying, This is the blood of the covenant that God made for you.

(Heb 9:21) And likewise he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the service.

(Heb 9:22) And almost all things, according to the law, are cleansed with blood, and remission does not occur without bloodshed.

(Heb 9:23) Indeed therefore, a necessity was for the models of the things in the heavens themselves to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things with better sacrifices than these.

(Heb 9:24) For the Christ entered not into a holy place made with hands, representative of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.

(Heb 9:25) And not so that he might offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the Holy things each year with blood by another,

(Heb 9:26) since it would be necessary for him to suffer often, from the foundation of the world. But now once, at the end of the ages, he was made known for an annulment of sin by the sacrifice of himself.
(Heb 9:27) And inasmuch as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, judgment,

(Heb 9:28) so also the Christ, having been offered once in order to take up the sins of many, will appear a second time, independent of sin, to those waiting for him for salvation.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2012, 07:05:51 AM »
Summary:

The priests covered sin with blood. That was good but it good but it only worked for a short while.

Jesus did not cover sins; Jesus washed away all sins commited in the past, present and future. Permanently.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2012, 07:15:17 AM »
The Christian Bible uses 'rejection', as in, (my understanding) He's coming back to finally reject/completely do away with all evil.  TCB says;  26) Otherwise, He would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world;  yet it is a fact that He is appearing once at the conclusion of the ages, for the rejection of wrongdoing by means of His sacrifice  27)  Now as it is appointed unto humans once to die and then after that the judgment,  28) so too the Anointed One, who has been offered up once for all time to carry the wrongdoings of many, will be seen a second time, not to deal with wrong-doing again, but to give Salvation to those who are continually waiting for Him.

It seems to me to make a distinction between what He did at the cross and what His return as Lord and Conquereing King will do, although that was "set in motion" by His sacrifice on the cross.   :2c:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 07:19:23 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2012, 07:18:27 AM »
The thing that confuses me is: conclusion of the ages

????
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2012, 07:26:36 AM »
I know, I thought about that.  That's part of why I think it's 2 separate events.  But I think the "conclusion of the ages" thing is the TCB translator's view..that there's only one more age, and when that one starts, it's "the conclusion".  I agree with them that Christ will return to do this, but I don't agree that there is necessarily only one more age and I think they could have worded it better.   :2c:

So I see them (and the scripture saying) "He was our sacrifice on the cross" once, but He will return "once" again at the beginning of the next age, to "*finish what He started".  2 distinct but very much entwined events.  One built on and vitally connected to the other.


*"It is finished" [said on the cross] to my understanding means "the debt is paid, and the way has been made unto salvation", not "everything's already done".  Although, IMO, since God isn't limited by our understanding or by time, space, etc., it was all done in effect[good as done, it WILL happen] before the foundation of the world. 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 07:40:55 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jabcat

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2012, 07:44:12 AM »
...but now that I read more closely the translation you posted, "since it would be necessary for him to suffer often, from the foundation of the world. But now once, at the end of the ages, he was made known for an annulment of sin by the sacrifice of himself", I'm not sure...  :Chinscratch:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2012, 08:20:02 AM »
Exactly.
Jesus suffers once. Safe bet that was 2000 years ago.
That moment of suffering is linked to the end of the ages.

The question is: Which ages?

All ages? Nope; because that would mean we now live in a renewed world in the God all-in-all phase.
Maybe the ages of man? Like kings, judges, priests?

But the current church age is an age of man too....

 :msealed:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2012, 04:50:57 PM »
The thing that confuses me is: conclusion of the ages

????

It's the conclusion of the age--this age.

Jesus is returning at the end of this age.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2012, 04:56:58 PM »
Jesus suffered (on the cross) at the end of the ages.
He suffered ~2000 years ago. Not in a future time/age.
Even if you include 2000 years from His suffering as this age the problem is still there.
His 1000 year reign is an age too.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2012, 04:59:29 PM »

He suffered at the end of one age and will return at the end of the next age.


King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the age has he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 06:10:39 PM »
Translators don't agree on that one.
Nearly half translates "end of the world", nearly half as "end of the ages", two as end of the age.

Ok, yes, even many ages can be followed by even more ages.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2012, 06:11:31 PM »
There was a woman who was shown all the ages, it was posted on here a while back, I think her name was Dora Van Assen or something like that? I searched her name and got nothing though. Maybe I'll google her.
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline lomarah

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 06:15:38 PM »
Here's the link to her stuff, don't have time to go through it right now but just posting it in case it interests anyone.

http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/searchdb.php?what=author&searchfor=|VAN%20ASSEN,%20DORA|&type=&show=titles&showitems=
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 08:23:14 PM by lomarah »
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Offline Molly

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 08:05:04 PM »
Looks like momentous things happen at the ends of ages.

Offline lomarah

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2012, 08:24:07 PM »
Here's the link to her stuff, don't have time to go through it right now but just posting it in case it interests anyone.

http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/searchdb.php?what=author&searchfor=|VAN%20ASSEN,%20DORA|&type=&show=titles&showitems=

Dang it, not sure why the full link won't work but just search under "V" for Van Assen. And then read her stuff, it's REALLY good!  :thumbsup:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2012, 08:30:03 PM »
Because the forum replaces space with %20.
Some sites can't handle that.

Use the URL tags

http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/searchdb.php?what=author&searchfor=|VAN ASSEN, DORA|&type=&show=titles&showitems=
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 09:04:26 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2012, 08:36:21 PM »
Prince WhiteWings to the rescue again!  :icon_king:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2012, 12:37:13 AM »
(For about a year ('87-'88 ?) I lived in rooms that were part of Westgate Tabernacle's fellowship hall in West Palm Beach, Florida.  Dora Van Assen lived a couple blocks away and she had an office in the same building where I was staying.)

Dora and her husband had been led to leave Holland, without any organization backing them and without any support, to live in Arizona with two American Indian tribes, spending about twenty years with each one.  She had gone into some other state of consciousness for about twelve hours while outside lying under the full brightness of the sun in 130 degree heat without suffering any ill effects.  She wasn't even sunburned.  She said God showed her the eight ages in His plan.  I have a chart she made up to illustrate what she was shown.

While the Concordant Literal people teach five ages, it is admittedly only the Scriptural minimum.  There doesn't seem to be any direct statement in the Word specifying just how many eons there are.  I find some discrepancy with Scripture saying Jesus appeared and was slain at the end of the eon(s) and Knoch's having this happen in the middle of all the ages.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline lomarah

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2012, 01:43:39 AM »
Very cool reFORMer! Did you know her, or speak with her at all?
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline jabcat

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2012, 05:12:16 AM »
One of my favorite "UR witnesses"!


http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/    [SEARCH VAN ASSEN under Authors Directory]


Excerpt - "In the beginning of this account we want to impress upon all the importance of worship – true praise and adoration. God had made it known to our assembly that he desired worship. He can make and send forth a missionary or preacher any time he desires - but he is searching for worshippers, "For He SEEKETH SUCH to worship Him" – John. 4:23

 

In obedience to this command, four of us were gathering daily under a juniper tree in the Mojave Desert near Lancaster, CA over twenty-five years ago, to SEEK GOD in the spirit of true worship. Though I had been a minister of the gospel for several years, I still had so many unanswered problems and questions concerning God's plan of salvation. Though my hands were lifted heavenward in praise and my lips were saying "hallelujah," my mind was filled with these many disturbing thoughts.

 

These questions in my mind had first begun to prick me when my husband, a confirmed atheist, was so marvelously converted while lying on his deathbed cursing God! Suddenly, he began to cry in agony of soul, tears gushing out of his eyes like a fountain, his body rolling from side to side in bed. When at last he could speak, he said, "God spoke to me." Then, he added, "I did not want to pray; God made me pray!" Sitting up, he placed his hand on his side saying, "God reached down His hand, touching my side. I'm healed! I'm going to get up."

While I stood in dumb-founded amazement, he dressed, went outside, and began hoeing weeds in the garden. Suddenly he again began to shout at the top of his voice, as he ran around the house, in an incoherent fashion. Then, rushing into me he threw his arms around me saying so sweetly, "Oh, Mama, I'm saved! Aren't you glad I'm saved?" Later that day as God led him to pray (exposed to the neighborhood right on our porch) he was filled with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues and prophesying to the neighbors who, out of curiosity, had gathered in our home to see what was taking place.

 

While hoeing in the garden he had such a tremendous experience of seeing Jesus standing before him in light form and then, entering into him, overwhelming him completely within and without. Later, after things quieted down, I saw him gazing in a mirror in order to see if he could see Jesus reflected in his own face – (2 Cor. 3:18).

 

In my own self-righteousness, I, whom had thought I was so far ahead of the unbelieving world (holding out very little hope for them), saw my own unbelieving husband saved, healed, filled with the Spirit, and receive the revelation of the indwelling Christ by the sovereign power of God. Within in a matter of minutes my suppositions that one must repent, believe, pray through, endure, and prove their self to be faithful before experiencing salvation had been disproved. My mind began to be filled with doubts and questions. Could I be mistaken? Had I falsely presented the gospel, basing salvation on works instead of the grace of God? In one day God had reached out to my husband, who I thought was so far behind spiritually, and placed him ahead of me in spiritual knowledge and experience of our Lord and Savior. Oh glory! I have had to move at a rapid, rapid pace since that time in order to keep abreast of the move of God.

 

A few days later I heard my husband praying for his deceased father. Surely he should not be praying for his father who also was an atheist. According to my teaching, his destiny was sealed. Therefore, I had supposed that there was no hope for his soul. However, I was afraid to stop him as he was under such an intense burden of prayer. I began praying that God would lift the burden by blotting out the memory of his father. Is this not what we are taught? That in heaven God will remove the memory of our unsaved loved ones from our minds? Otherwise, how would we ever be happy in heaven thinking of our father, mother, brother, sister or one of our dear children suffering in the torment of hell forever?

 

After a while my husband came in the house, his face shining with the radiance of God. He said, "I've been praying for my father." I interrupted, "Oh, honey, don't you know that you cannot pray for anyone after they are dead?" He replied, "I had to pray for my father; I could not bear to think that he was lost. I had to tell God how honest my father was, and how good he was to everyone, and oh, how much I loved him! And God answered me too!" In amazed unbelief I asked, "He did? What did He say?" And my husband, looking at me in calm assurance replied, "God said, 'MY LOVE IS GREATER THAN YOUR LOVE!' and if God's love is greater than my love, I know my father is in good hands!" From that hour he never worried about the welfare of his father anymore. How this shook me! Could there possibly be hope for the unsaved after death?"  Dora Von Assen
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2012, 08:20:32 AM »
Prince WhiteWings to the rescue again!  :icon_king:
Retribution is at hand! :punish:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline reFORMer

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2012, 08:24:27 AM »
Very cool reFORMer! Did you know her, or speak with her at all?
Dora's friend Flo, at who's house she lived, kept us (me and Dora) eating together at her table.  I had almost no money at all, just a little from odd jobs here and there.  No car, few new books, I had only enough for food and laundry, taking into consideration the gifts the people of Westgate Tabernacle gave me.  Dora's office was like our living room.  We shared a lot of the things God had done In our lives over the years and how He'd taught us.

I really wanted tapes of her messages and copies of the books she wrote.  It was in this circumstance I stumbled in pride.  I'm sure she would have given them to me if I'd asked; but, I was too proud.  She was so humble she may have thought I was far enough along I didn't need her teachings or I may have given the impression I looked down on her and didn't need what she had.  Here was another of my many failures to enter on into relationships due to lack of love I'm trying not to remember so much.  The truth was I only wanted them if I could pay for them.  I only have a few things from her now as a result.  I helped make several of her books.  She did some VCR messages that were for a series of programs in African Television.  I did some illustrations, some charts that were shown along with her teaching.  These series were used there at Westgate too.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 08:35:15 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: hebrews 9:26 ?
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2012, 08:39:13 AM »
The whole ages thing can be interpretated in many ways.
Say, the age of Kings is one age. I the rule of King David an age inside that age?
I think we (all Tenties) should have a in depth discussion about the number of ages.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...