Author Topic: The Greek soul vs what a soul is  (Read 5274 times)

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Offline eaglesway

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2012, 05:13:17 AM »
Hmmm two soles, How blessed are the feet of them ;o)
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jaareshiah

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2012, 05:07:19 AM »
Many have the view that the soul is immortal and separate from the body. However, the Bible provides a different understanding. Of the soul, the Bible says that it can be "cut off" or put to death, at Leviticus 7:20, saying: "But the soul that eateth of the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, that pertain unto the Lord, having his uncleanness upon him, even that soul shall be cut off from his people."(King James Bible)

Thus it can eat, for verse 25 also says: "For whosoever eateth the fat of the beast, of which men offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, even the soul that eateth it shall be cut off from his people", that the soul can "be afflicted" at Leviticus 16:29, that God condemns it for "eating blood" at Leviticus 17:10 and 12, that the soul can touch something "unclean" and be "unclean" itself, at Leviticus 22:6, that it can be purchased, at Leviticus 22:11, that it works and can be destroyed (therefore not immortal), at Leviticus 23:30, that it can " pine away" at Leviticus 26:16, that animals are souls at Numbers 31:28, that it has a desire to eat at Deuteronomy 12:15 and 20, that the soul can crave for "oxen...sheep...wine" at Deuteronomy 14:26, that Joshua destroyed all the souls of Makkedah at Joshua 10:28, that it has blood at Jeremiah 2:34 and that it is not immortal, for Peter said: "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."(Acts 3:23 King James Bible)

Hence, just what is the soul ? What is it that eats, that can touch something, that can be "afflicted", that can be "destroyed" ? The soul is us as a person, with all our feelings and desires, with blood flowing through our veins. Hence, at Genesis 2:7, of Adam the Scripture says that "the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (King James Bible)

The apostle Paul reiterated this at 1 Corinthians 15:45, saying that "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."(King James Bible) Therefore, God did not place a soul in Adam, but rather, he "became a living soul". Before God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life", Adam was a dead soul.

At Ezekiel 18:4, it says that the "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."(King James Bible) Thus, we as souls, sin, and eventually die. The Hebrew word for soul is ne´phesh (Greek psy·khe´ ) and evidently comes from a root meaning "breathe" and in a literal sense ne´phesh could be rendered as "a breather."

The word soul can also be rendered as a person's life, for Jesus said that " And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (hades, Greek)."(Matt 10:28 King James Bible) Thus, one's future life or "soul" or you as a person being resurrected is dependent upon not fearing those who can "kill the body" or present life.

However, Greek philosophers, such as Socrates (469-399 B.C.E.), Plato (428-347 B.C.E.) and Aristotle (384-322 B.C.E.) of Athens, Greece, promoted the belief of the immortality of the soul. Greek philosophical teachings later influenced so-called Christians to also promote the religious belief in the immortality of the soul, such as the writer of the apocryphal writing of the Wisdom of Solomon, employing Platonic terminology in advancing the doctrine of the immortality of the human soul.

Greek Orthodox Metropolitan Methodius of Pisidia wrote the book The Hellenic Pedestal of Christianity in order to show that Greek culture and philosophy provided the infrastructure of modern "Christian" thought. In that book, he unhesitantly admits: "Almost all the prominent Church Fathers considered the Greek elements most useful, and they borrowed them from the Greek classical antiquity, using them as a means to understand and correctly express the Christian truths."

Plato quotes Socrates as saying: "The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods."—Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A. This false religious teaching influenced Jewish thinking, along with the idea of an underworld place of torment after death.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2012, 08:17:01 AM »
 :welcome:

Hence, just what is the soul ? What is it that eats, that can touch something, that can be "afflicted", that can be "destroyed" ? The soul is us as a person, with all our feelings and desires, with blood flowing through our veins.
Clear list of verses; but what about this one?

Mat 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

If the soul is a person then what is that verse about? Replacing the word soul with body in that verse gives an odd reading.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2012, 08:17:31 AM »
Hmmm two soles, How blessed are the feet of them ;o)
:winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2012, 08:34:00 AM »
:welcome:

Hence, just what is the soul ? What is it that eats, that can touch something, that can be "afflicted", that can be "destroyed" ? The soul is us as a person, with all our feelings and desires, with blood flowing through our veins.
Clear list of verses; but what about this one?

Mat 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

If the soul is a person then what is that verse about? Replacing the word soul with body in that verse gives an odd reading.

 :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c:

it is the soul and the body of the person. A person is composed of spirit soul and body. the heart of the person is the place where the three are joined in one. the heart is the throne, if Jesus sits on it then there is glory in the temple. The spirit of God floods the temple. The temple is the heart(golden altar of incense) the holy of holies(the spirit) the holy place(the soul) the outer court(the body). For those who live in the outer court there are sacrifices a plenty and bloodshed all over the place. But Paul exhorts , Yield your body as a living sacrifice.....(move up the stairs to the holy place) be not conformed to this world(carnal-outer court) rather be transformed by the renewing of your mind (Lampstand and fellowship/shewbread in the holy place)....so that you may prove what the will of God is, what is good acceptable and perfect( the fire consumes the acceptable offering, the glory fills the temple) and so proceed into the holy of holies - "walk in the spirit" so that you do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. walking in the spirit is living in the holy of holies, renewed in the spirit of your mind, transformed into the image of Christ from a broken and a contrite heart.

The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2012, 08:48:02 AM »
So your view is that soul in not the body?

About the rest of your post (where the throne is) are, as usual, different views.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline eaglesway

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2012, 09:10:32 AM »
No, I believe the soul is in the body, equivalent to the middle court of the temple
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline eaglesway

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2012, 09:46:42 AM »
So your view is that soul in not the body?

About the rest of your post (where the throne is) are, as usual, different views.

 :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c:

Not really so different. Many hold that the heart is the highest seat of consciousness in man. Paul speaks of "the eyes of your heart" being enlightened. In the same letter he speaks of "being strengthened with might by His spirit in your inner man".
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God, and, "love the Lord your God with all your heart(kardia), mind(dionia deep meditation) and soul(psuche)

We know that "where your heart is there will your treasure be also". The eye is the "window" of the soul. We see flames in Jesus eyes because the Spirit has completely filled His soul and His heart is perfect in zeal for God.

"having your hearts cleaned from an evil consciousness and your bodies washed with pure water" we have bold access into the holy place (Hebrews)

Of course, I am not at all interested in establishing a systematic theology for the construction of the inner man. I am just sharing some things I see through a glass darkly.

The consciousness of man is in the heart(eyes of the heart enlightened, heart cleansed from an evil consciousness)
The will of man is in the heart(where your heart is there will your treasure be also)
A broken and a contrite heart cleanses the spirit(Create in me a clean heart of God and renew a right spirit within me)

The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
(Psa 34:18)

Psa 77:6  I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search.

Pro 15:13  A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.

Eze 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner(making manifest) of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The soul and the spirit can be divided asunder and indeed must be before the secrets of the heart are manifest. Three things here in this verse- soul, spirit, heart. connected yet different, perhaps as the lungs , brain and heart are to the body, so the spirit soul and heart are to the BEING.

If one lives for physical pleasure and appetites they are living in the flesh, under the dominion of the body.

If one lives for the "pride of the eyes and the pride of life and the pleasures of the mind" they are living under the dominion of the soul(this wisdom is not from below but is earthly, "soulish(psuche) and demonic").

If a person yields there body as a living sacrifice and is transformed by the spirit as they behold His face because their "eye is single" and "the whole body is full of light" then they are living under the dominion of the spirit, walking in the spirit, because
 their heart is right and their treasure is in Christ and the kingdom of God.

It is as the heart that decides the matter.....and where our heart is there will our treasure be and where our treasure is there we will find ourselves for good or ill- eventually.

Watchman Nee wrote a book called "The Release of the Spirit- good on this

George Warnock wrote on this in "Feast of Tabernacles"- available free online somehwere thru google
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 09:52:00 AM by eaglesway »
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

jaareshiah

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Re: The Greek soul vs what a soul is
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2012, 04:17:11 AM »
:welcome:

Hence, just what is the soul ? What is it that eats, that can touch something, that can be "afflicted", that can be "destroyed" ? The soul is us as a person, with all our feelings and desires, with blood flowing through our veins.
Clear list of verses; but what about this one?

Mat 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

If the soul is a person then what is that verse about? Replacing the word soul with body in that verse gives an odd reading.

At Matthew 10:28, Jesus used language that assists a person to understand the need to be loyal to Jehovah God, saying "not (to) become fearful of those who can kill the body (our life prospects now, we as a person now) but cannot kill the soul (the future prospect that we as person after death, will be resurrected); but rather be in fear of him that can destroy soul and body (our life now as well any hope of living in the future when die) in Gehenna (or everlasting destruction)".

Hence, Jesus said to not to "become fearful" of those who can kill us now, but cannot take away our future life by means of a resurrection from the dead.  Rather, we should "be in fear of him (Jehovah God) that can destroy soul and body in Gehenna", whereby once we die, there is no future prospect of ever living again.

Satan and his agents are bent on creating fear in those loyal to God, threatening some of them with death unless they quit loyally serving Jehovah God. Satan has used the political governments (and continues to do so), which is his creation as a "wild beast".(Rev 13:1, 2) It is Jehovah alone who is worthy of our fear, our profound awe and respect.

Jesus never allowed fear of death to hinder him from doing his Father's work of making known "the good news of the kingdom".(Luke 8:1) The Pharisees tried to instill fear into Jesus, saying to him: "Get out and be on your way from here, because Herod wants to kill you", Jesus responded: "Go, and tell that fox, ' Look ! I am casting out demons and accomplishing healing today and tomorrow, and on the the third day I shall be finished."(Luke 13:31, 32)

On the "third day", Jesus was arrested by the order of the Jewish religious leaders (Matt 26:47) and was impaled the following day.(Matt 27:35) He never became "fearful of those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul."