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Offline WhiteWings

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Fallen angels
« on: June 22, 2012, 10:49:14 PM »
(Gen 6:2) that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair. And they took to them wives of all that they chose.
(Gen 6:3) And LORD said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he also is flesh. Yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
(Gen 6:4) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and they bore sons to them, the same were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.


It's often said the fallen angels/Nephlim/sons of God fell out of heaven.

If they fell; when?
(Job 1:6) Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before LORD, that Satan also came among them.

The same sons of God?

nephilim is plural of nephil.
Looking at the defenitions below nephil can just as well mean "cause to fall", "one that cuts down", etc
Tyrants, fearsome warriors.

(Num 13:32) And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had spied out to the sons of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that eats up the inhabitants of it. And all the people that we saw
(Num 13:33) And we saw there the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim. And we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

(Josh 11:21) And Joshua came at that time, and cut off the Anakim from the hill-country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill-country of Judah, and from all the hill-country of Israel. Joshua utterly destroyed them with the

When were the Nephlim chained? They are chained in Jude 1:6. They were still free in Job 1:6.
They aren't mentioned in Joshua 11:21

???





נפל  /  נפיל
nephı̂yl  /  nephil

BDB Definition:
1) giants, the Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H5307
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1393a

1393 נפל (npl) II. Assumed root of the following.
1393a נְפִילִים (nĕpı̂lı̂m) giants, the Nephilim (Gen 6:4; Num 13:33, only).
While some scholars attempt to relate this term etymologically to nāpal I via the noun nēpel "untimely birth" or "miscarriage" (as productive of superhuman monstrosities), a more likely reconstruction is the proposal of a root nāpal II, akin to other weak verbs, pl II "be wonderful, strong, mighty," pālā' "be wonderful," and even pāl "separate, distinguish," pālal "discriminate." This pattern of semantically related groups of weak verbs with two strong consonants in common is a notably recurrent phenomenon in Hebrew lexicography. Actually, the translation "giants" is supported mainly by the LXX and may be quite misleading. The word may be of unknown origin and mean "heroes" or "fierce warriors" etc. The RSV and NIV transliteration "Nephilim" is safer and may be correct in referring the noun to a race or nation.

ְנִפיִלים
nep̱iyliym:
A masculine noun used only in the plural meaning giants. The celebrated, puzzling passage where this term is first used is Gen 6:4 which merely transliterates the Hebrew word into English as Nephilim. These beings evidently appeared on the earth in the ancient past when divine beings cohabited with woman, and Nephilim, the mighty men or warriors of great fame, were the offspring. This huge race of Nephilim struck fear into the Israelite spies who had gone up to survey the land of Canaan (see Num 13:31-33). The sons of Anak, a tall race of people, came from the Nephilim (Num 13:33; cf. Deu 2:10-11; Deu 9:2; Jos 15:14). Eze 2:21, Eze 2:27 may have the Nephilim in mind, possibly equating them with the mighty men or mighty warriors in the passage. These beings were not divine but only at best great, powerful men.


ָנַפל
nāp̱al:
A verb meaning to fall, to lie, to prostrate oneself, to overthrow. This common Hebrew verb carries many possible variations in meaning, much like the English verb to fall. For instance, it can be used literally of someone or something falling down (Gen 14:10; 1Sa 4:18; 1Sa 17:49; 2Ki 6:5); or into a pit (Exo 21:33; Deu 22:4). It is employed for inanimate objects like walls, towers, trees, and hailstones (1Ki 20:30; Ecc 11:3). It is used idiomatically for a violent death, especially in battle (Jdg 5:27; 1Sa 4:10; Amo 7:17); and for the overthrow of a city (Jer 51:8). The word also describes those who fall prostrate before God or those in authority (Gen 50:18; 2Ch 20:18). With the preposition ‛al (H5921), meaning upon, it carries the meaning to attack (literally, to fall upon) (Job 1:19); to desert (to fall away) (2Ki 25:11; Jer 21:9); to be overcome by sleep or emotion (to fall into) (Gen 4:5; Gen 15:12; Jos 2:9; 1Sa 17:32; Neh 6:16). It is used to express the idea of being bedridden or debilitated (Exo 21:18); to be overtaken (lit., to fall into the hands of) (Jdg 15:18; Lam 1:7); and to be born (Isa 26:18). In its causative usage, it also takes the meaning to cast lots (Neh 10:34 [35]; Isa 34:17).
נפל
nâphal

BDB Definition:
1) to fall, lie, be cast down, fail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to fall
1a2) to fall (of violent death)
1a3) to fall prostrate, prostrate oneself before
1a4) to fall upon, attack, desert, fall away to, go away to, fall into the hand of
1a5) to fall short, fail, fall out, turn out, result
1a6) to settle, waste away, be offered, be inferior to
1a7) to lie, lie prostrate
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to cause to fall, fell, throw down, knock out, lay prostrate
1b2) to overthrow
1b3) to make the lot fall, assign by lot, apportion by lot
1b4) to let drop, cause to fail (figuratively)
1b5) to cause to fall
1c) (Hithpael)
1c1) to throw or prostrate oneself, throw oneself upon
1c2) to lie prostrate, prostrate oneself
1d) (Pilel) to fall
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1392
1392 נָפַל (nāpal) I, fall, lie, be cast down, fail. 
Derivatives
1392a נֵפֶל (nēpel) untimely birth, abortion (Job 3:16; Eccl 6:3).
1392b מַפָּל (mappāl) refuse.
1392c מַפָּלָה (mappāl) a ruin (Isa 17:1).
1392d מַפֵּלָה (mappēl) a ruin (Isa 23:13; 25:2),
1392e מַפֶּלֶת (mappelet) a carcass (Jud 14:8), ruin (Ezk 31:13), overthrow (Ezk 32:10).
Besides the common physical action or occurrence, a violent or accidental circumstance is often indicated, as well as expanded range of meanings by combination with prepositional specifiers.
Occurring in verbal usage 365 times in the ot, this word displays rich variety of connotation. Though something as simple as a falling wall may be described (Isa 30:13) or as literal as reporting that "Ahaziah fell down through the lattice," more often a much more specific or idiomatic use is involved. One may fall in battle (Jud 20:44), fall into the hands of another (Lam 1:7), or fall by the hand of an opponent (I Chr 20:8). Damage, death, or destruction are often designated by nāpal, but far from exclusively so. A listing of some facets of meaning with examples of occurrence would serve to demonstrate the range of usage. (Transitive force is expressed by the Hiphil stem.)
Observation of denotations of the verb root makes the rationale of the noun derivatives self evident. Twice occurring mappāl speaks of droppings or refuse of wheat (Amos 8:6) and the hanging, fleshy paunch of the crocodile (Job 41:15). mappāl or mappēl (Isa 17:1; 23:13; 25:2 only) means ruin of a devastated or decayed city, while mappelet, besides "ruin, overthrow" (Ezk 26:15, 18 and elsewhere), designates a cut down tree trunk (Ezk 31:13) and animal carcass (Jud 14:8).
M.C.F.
 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 11:04:58 PM by WhiteWings »
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Offline eaglesway

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 06:30:05 AM »
(Gen 6:2) that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair. And they took to them wives of all that they chose.
(Gen 6:3) And LORD said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he also is flesh. Yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
(Gen 6:4) The Nephilim were on the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came to the daughters of men, and they bore sons to them, the same were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.


It's often said the fallen angels/Nephlim/sons of God fell out of heaven.

If they fell; when?
(Job 1:6) Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before LORD, that Satan also came among them.

The same sons of God?

nephilim is plural of nephil.
Looking at the defenitions below nephil can just as well mean "cause to fall", "one that cuts down", etc
Tyrants, fearsome warriors.

(Num 13:32) And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had spied out to the sons of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that eats up the inhabitants of it. And all the people that we saw
(Num 13:33) And we saw there the Nephilim, the sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim. And we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

(Josh 11:21) And Joshua came at that time, and cut off the Anakim from the hill-country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill-country of Judah, and from all the hill-country of Israel. Joshua utterly destroyed them with the

When were the Nephlim chained? They are chained in Jude 1:6. They were still free in Job 1:6.
They aren't mentioned in Joshua 11:21

???





נפל  /  נפיל
nephı̂yl  /  nephil

BDB Definition:
1) giants, the Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H5307
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1393a

1393 נפל (npl) II. Assumed root of the following.
1393a נְפִילִים (nĕpı̂lı̂m) giants, the Nephilim (Gen 6:4; Num 13:33, only).
While some scholars attempt to relate this term etymologically to nāpal I via the noun nēpel "untimely birth" or "miscarriage" (as productive of superhuman monstrosities), a more likely reconstruction is the proposal of a root nāpal II, akin to other weak verbs, pl II "be wonderful, strong, mighty," pālā' "be wonderful," and even pāl "separate, distinguish," pālal "discriminate." This pattern of semantically related groups of weak verbs with two strong consonants in common is a notably recurrent phenomenon in Hebrew lexicography. Actually, the translation "giants" is supported mainly by the LXX and may be quite misleading. The word may be of unknown origin and mean "heroes" or "fierce warriors" etc. The RSV and NIV transliteration "Nephilim" is safer and may be correct in referring the noun to a race or nation.

ְנִפיִלים
nep̱iyliym:
A masculine noun used only in the plural meaning giants. The celebrated, puzzling passage where this term is first used is Gen 6:4 which merely transliterates the Hebrew word into English as Nephilim. These beings evidently appeared on the earth in the ancient past when divine beings cohabited with woman, and Nephilim, the mighty men or warriors of great fame, were the offspring. This huge race of Nephilim struck fear into the Israelite spies who had gone up to survey the land of Canaan (see Num 13:31-33). The sons of Anak, a tall race of people, came from the Nephilim (Num 13:33; cf. Deu 2:10-11; Deu 9:2; Jos 15:14). Eze 2:21, Eze 2:27 may have the Nephilim in mind, possibly equating them with the mighty men or mighty warriors in the passage. These beings were not divine but only at best great, powerful men.


ָנַפל
nāp̱al:
A verb meaning to fall, to lie, to prostrate oneself, to overthrow. This common Hebrew verb carries many possible variations in meaning, much like the English verb to fall. For instance, it can be used literally of someone or something falling down (Gen 14:10; 1Sa 4:18; 1Sa 17:49; 2Ki 6:5); or into a pit (Exo 21:33; Deu 22:4). It is employed for inanimate objects like walls, towers, trees, and hailstones (1Ki 20:30; Ecc 11:3). It is used idiomatically for a violent death, especially in battle (Jdg 5:27; 1Sa 4:10; Amo 7:17); and for the overthrow of a city (Jer 51:8). The word also describes those who fall prostrate before God or those in authority (Gen 50:18; 2Ch 20:18). With the preposition ‛al (H5921), meaning upon, it carries the meaning to attack (literally, to fall upon) (Job 1:19); to desert (to fall away) (2Ki 25:11; Jer 21:9); to be overcome by sleep or emotion (to fall into) (Gen 4:5; Gen 15:12; Jos 2:9; 1Sa 17:32; Neh 6:16). It is used to express the idea of being bedridden or debilitated (Exo 21:18); to be overtaken (lit., to fall into the hands of) (Jdg 15:18; Lam 1:7); and to be born (Isa 26:18). In its causative usage, it also takes the meaning to cast lots (Neh 10:34 [35]; Isa 34:17).
נפל
nâphal

BDB Definition:
1) to fall, lie, be cast down, fail
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to fall
1a2) to fall (of violent death)
1a3) to fall prostrate, prostrate oneself before
1a4) to fall upon, attack, desert, fall away to, go away to, fall into the hand of
1a5) to fall short, fail, fall out, turn out, result
1a6) to settle, waste away, be offered, be inferior to
1a7) to lie, lie prostrate
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to cause to fall, fell, throw down, knock out, lay prostrate
1b2) to overthrow
1b3) to make the lot fall, assign by lot, apportion by lot
1b4) to let drop, cause to fail (figuratively)
1b5) to cause to fall
1c) (Hithpael)
1c1) to throw or prostrate oneself, throw oneself upon
1c2) to lie prostrate, prostrate oneself
1d) (Pilel) to fall
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1392
1392 נָפַל (nāpal) I, fall, lie, be cast down, fail. 
Derivatives
1392a נֵפֶל (nēpel) untimely birth, abortion (Job 3:16; Eccl 6:3).
1392b מַפָּל (mappāl) refuse.
1392c מַפָּלָה (mappāl) a ruin (Isa 17:1).
1392d מַפֵּלָה (mappēl) a ruin (Isa 23:13; 25:2),
1392e מַפֶּלֶת (mappelet) a carcass (Jud 14:8), ruin (Ezk 31:13), overthrow (Ezk 32:10).
Besides the common physical action or occurrence, a violent or accidental circumstance is often indicated, as well as expanded range of meanings by combination with prepositional specifiers.
Occurring in verbal usage 365 times in the ot, this word displays rich variety of connotation. Though something as simple as a falling wall may be described (Isa 30:13) or as literal as reporting that "Ahaziah fell down through the lattice," more often a much more specific or idiomatic use is involved. One may fall in battle (Jud 20:44), fall into the hands of another (Lam 1:7), or fall by the hand of an opponent (I Chr 20:8). Damage, death, or destruction are often designated by nāpal, but far from exclusively so. A listing of some facets of meaning with examples of occurrence would serve to demonstrate the range of usage. (Transitive force is expressed by the Hiphil stem.)
Observation of denotations of the verb root makes the rationale of the noun derivatives self evident. Twice occurring mappāl speaks of droppings or refuse of wheat (Amos 8:6) and the hanging, fleshy paunch of the crocodile (Job 41:15). mappāl or mappēl (Isa 17:1; 23:13; 25:2 only) means ruin of a devastated or decayed city, while mappelet, besides "ruin, overthrow" (Ezk 26:15, 18 and elsewhere), designates a cut down tree trunk (Ezk 31:13) and animal carcass (Jud 14:8).
M.C.F.
 

Anakim may hav been interchangeable with Nephilim since they are all sons of Anak.
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 09:34:55 AM »
Maybe, but read this: sons of Anak, who come of the Nephilim

The sons of Anak are half human and half Nephilim (Gen 6:2)
So strickly speaking that verse is not about pure humans, neither is it about pure Nephlim.

Anak himself wasn't there. Who is Anak? A pure Nephlim? Halfbreed? Were are the other Nephlim?

It's often said God caused the great flood to kill the Nephlim. There are several problems with that. Nephilim a spirit beings so can't drown. They can hide in heaven.
Assuming all crossbreeds died during the flood it must mean the son of Anak originate from after the flood. (maybe even Anak himself)
Why is only Anak's offspring mentioned? Because the Bible usually only focusses on the area the Isrealites my thought is that at that time there may have been thousands crossbreeds across the world. Or none at all.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 10:25:03 AM by WhiteWings »
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Offline Molly

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 10:04:25 AM »
The nephilim weren't chained.  The nephilim were the offspring of fallen 'angels'/elohim and human women.

The fallen angels were chained for what they started in the time of Noah.

nephilim do not equal sons of God.

The sons of God are the elohim.

fallen angels=sons of God=elohim='gods'

nephilim are half human.  the human half can drown.

the army of Joshua and Caleb conquered the nephilim [giants] that had settled in canaan and took the promised land.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 10:10:48 AM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 10:13:06 AM »
The fallen angels/ elohim will be unchained at the end times to bring judgment upon the world--that means more nephilim.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 10:27:46 AM »
The nephilim are already around I think. Ever hear stories of "aliens"? Nephilim.
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 10:35:02 AM »
Looking at the word Anak or Anakians gives very little info. Anak=neck, Anakians=long necks. Perhaps some were red :-)


ANAK
ק
‛ânâq
BDB Definition:
Anak = "neck"
1) progenitor of a family, or tribe of the giant people in Canaan
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: the same as H6060
ֲעָנק
‛anāq:
A masculine noun indicating a necklace, a chain. It is used figuratively of wearing parents' instructions around one's neck as a necklace or chain of remembrance (Pro 1:9). It refers to a necklace worn as an ornament or jewelry (Son 4:9). It was used of ornaments worn on animals, camels in particular (Jdg 8:26).
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 10:45:45 AM »
(Deut 3:11) For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

9 cubits=162 or 189 inch depending on the cubit standard used. Well over 4 meter. That's a giant.

(1Sam 17:4) And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

About 3 meter.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 10:51:36 AM »
The nephilim are already around I think. Ever hear stories of "aliens"? Nephilim.
If Neplilim are ofspring of the Jude 1:6 angels that can only mean 2 things.
- The angels are already unchained.
- The race of Nephlim never was completly wiped out.

I don't know exactly when the alien stories started but around the sixties I think. If there is a connection between alien stories and gianst/nephilim/Jude 1:6 then the last judgement started decades ago.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 11:35:58 AM »
Unchained they be...
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 12:04:55 PM »
I'm wondering if all those Greek, Norse, etc gods are the ones mentioned in Genesis 6:2.

Greek gods had much interaction with humans.
For example the Greek half-god Hercules is a Nephilim.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 12:18:53 PM »
Huh. You never know.
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2012, 01:33:45 PM »
(Lev 19:19) Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shall not let thy cattle engender with a diverse kind. Thou shall not sow thy field with two kinds of seed, neither shall there come upon thee a garment of two kinds of stuff mingled together.


Laws against genetic engineering? Not sure how the statement about the garment fits in there. Today there are hardly any clothes that are not made of two or more fabrics.
The Nephilim are the first example of cross-breeding.

(Gen 1:11) And God said, Let the earth put forth grass, herbs yielding seed, [and] fruit trees bearing fruit according to their kind (in which is the seed of them) upon the earth. And it was so.


1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2012, 01:50:26 PM »
Genetic engineering is certainly stupid and I'm sure we'll be paying for it soon. I see the spiritual aspects in these verses though. We want the pure seed of Christ ONLY, not mixed with serpent seed.

Oh hasten that day!!
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Offline lomarah

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2012, 01:51:24 PM »
Oh and garments - we want garments of pure righteousness.  :cloud9:
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2012, 01:57:25 PM »
I'm aware of the symbology of linen and wool but to compare that to genetic enginering....


Quote
Genetic engineering is certainly stupid and I'm sure we'll be paying for it soon.
Food becomes more of void nutrients every day.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2012, 01:59:44 PM »
I know... it's not looking good is it?
Oh the genious ideas of man...  :mnah:
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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2012, 02:37:29 PM »
The verses below show the Nephilim and/or their offspring pop up all over the OT. They are defeated in local battles but nowhere it says all of them are gone. The Bible only writes about the ones that meet the Isrealites.


Joshua 11:22 No Anakites were left in Israelite territory; only in Gaza, Gath and Ashdod did any survive.
Goliath was from Gath.

Deuteronomy 2
(10) (The Emites used to live there a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites.
(11) Like the Anakites, they too were considered Rephaites, but the Moabites called them Emites.

1 Chronicles 20
(4) In the course of time, war broke out with the Philistines, at Gezer. At that time Sibbecai the Hushathite killed Sippai, one of the descendants of the Rephaites, and the Philistines were subjugated.
(5) In another battle with the Philistines, Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.
(6) In still another battle, which took place at Gath, there was a huge man with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot-- twenty-four in all. He also was descended from Rapha.
(7) When he taunted Israel, Jonathan son of Shimea, David's brother, killed him.
(8) These were descendants of Rapha in Gath, and they fell at the hands of David and his men.

Deuteronomy 2
(19)When you come to the Ammonites, do not harass them or provoke them to war, for I will not give you possession of any land belonging to the Ammonites. I have given it as a possession to the descendants of Lot."
(20) (That too was considered a land of the Rephaites, who used to live there; but the Ammonites called them Zamzummites.
(21) They were a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2012, 03:57:26 PM »
The verses below show the Nephilim and/or their offspring pop up all over the OT. They are defeated in local battles but nowhere it says all of them are gone. The Bible only writes about the ones that meet the Isrealites.


Joshua 11:22 No Anakites were left in Israelite territory; only in Gaza, Gath and Ashdod did any survive.
Goliath was from Gath.

Deuteronomy 2
(10) (The Emites used to live there a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites.
(11) Like the Anakites, they too were considered Rephaites, but the Moabites called them Emites.

1 Chronicles 20
(4) In the course of time, war broke out with the Philistines, at Gezer. At that time Sibbecai the Hushathite killed Sippai, one of the descendants of the Rephaites, and the Philistines were subjugated.
(5) In another battle with the Philistines, Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.
(6) In still another battle, which took place at Gath, there was a huge man with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot-- twenty-four in all. He also was descended from Rapha.
(7) When he taunted Israel, Jonathan son of Shimea, David's brother, killed him.
(8) These were descendants of Rapha in Gath, and they fell at the hands of David and his men.

Deuteronomy 2
(19)When you come to the Ammonites, do not harass them or provoke them to war, for I will not give you possession of any land belonging to the Ammonites. I have given it as a possession to the descendants of Lot."
(20) (That too was considered a land of the Rephaites, who used to live there; but the Ammonites called them Zamzummites.
(21) They were a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites

I think it was the nephilim that the Israelites were told to wipe out every man, woman, and child, but try explaining that to someone who has never heard of nephilim lol.  They usually think God wants to dash the heads of innocent little human babies against rocks.  They were in Canaan, where the remnant of the nephilim lived ['we are like grasshoppers in their eyes'].


"When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgacrapes and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them nor show mercy to them.Nor shall you make marriages with them."
--Deut 7

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2012, 04:07:09 PM »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2012, 04:12:44 PM »
Oh Wings... hahahahaha
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2012, 04:43:35 PM »
Looking at the word Anak or Anakians gives very little info. Anak=neck, Anakians=long necks. Perhaps some were red :-)


ANAK
ק
‛ânâq
BDB Definition:
Anak = "neck"
1) progenitor of a family, or tribe of the giant people in Canaan
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: the same as H6060
ֲעָנק
‛anāq:
A masculine noun indicating a necklace, a chain. It is used figuratively of wearing parents' instructions around one's neck as a necklace or chain of remembrance (Pro 1:9). It refers to a necklace worn as an ornament or jewelry (Son 4:9). It was used of ornaments worn on animals, camels in particular (Jdg 8:26).

There is very little info about any of this. All the conjecture is based on a few verses. Whether the "sons of God" were angels, or not- all conjecture. Maybe they were some other order of created beings. Since, as Jesus described angels- "neither male nor female....."  I kind of doubt that theyre was any crossbreeding at all. However, since we are looking through eons based on a couple verses connected by various conjectures, I use caution on all sides. There is no argument. There is not enough info to fuel one. I always get a kick out of people who have constructed detailed cosmologies of past and future ages from a few verses of scripture. My conjecture is that we will be like the angels also, neither male nor female.  But according to John, we kno not yet what we shall be, and according to Paul we sewe thru a glass darkly, so it is really all just conjecture at this point :o)

However, the scripture says the Nephilim were the sons of Anak- therefore I consider it reasonable to postulate that maybe the Anakim were Nephilim :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Molly

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2012, 04:58:35 PM »
There are very few dots to connect in our Bible, but there should be enough to get a broad understanding, at least, if not the details.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.  Gen 6


This scripture tells us there were Nephilim after the flood, which other scripture confirms.

truthquest

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2012, 05:42:42 PM »
There are very few dots to connect in our Bible, but there should be enough to get a broad understanding, at least, if not the details.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.  Gen 6


This scripture tells us there were Nephilim after the flood, which other scripture confirms.
Molly, I was doing a study on this scripture Gen. 6:4. Something didn't seem right to me about the way this scripture was translated. The Greek, Aramaic, and main Ge'ez manuscripts of 1 Enoch and Jubilees obtained in the 19th century and held in the British Museum and Vatican Library, connect the origin of the Nephilim with the fallen angels, and in particular with the egrḗgoroi (watchers). The Book of Jubilees (7:2125) states that ridding the Earth of these Nephilim was one of God's purposes for flooding the Earth in Noah's time.

So with this in mind, I was wondering why so many translations say, "and also after that,". Some of the older translations such as Douay-Rheims 1899 has Gen. 6:4 this way. Gen. 6:4 Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown. Miles Coverdale Bible 1535. Gen. 6:4 There were giauntes also in the worlde at that tyme. For whan the children of God had lyen with the daughters of men, and begotten them children, ye same (children) became mightie in the worlde, and men of renowne.

And what I noticed about this scripture from these translations when I read it, was that when it says there were giants in the earth in those days, it then gives the reason why. When it says for after, I understood for the first time that this must be saying something like, as a result of or because of, as the reason for why there were giants in the earth in those days. There were giants in the earth in those days and this is the reason why.  And not that "and also after that", which gives the impression that giants were present also after that.
This is just an observation I made which seems to make more sense to me. But that's just me.
 :2c:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 05:58:08 PM by truthquest »

Offline Molly

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Re: Fallen angels
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2012, 06:14:10 PM »
In E-sword, the phrase 'and also after that' is three Hebrew words.  One of them is a conjunction --also, even, both--so it seems to be connecting two things [time before and time after?] which seems most reasonable--but who knows?

Yet, we do know from our own Bible OT, that there are giants after the flood.  So the KJV seems to be verified in that this activity is continuing after that or these are a remnant that made it through the flood on the ark [genetically].

And, Jesus himself tells us that the end times will be as in the days of Noah...and  Revelation tells us that certain 'angels' who started this activity will be released from the river Euphrates at the end time for judgment.  They have been reserved in chains for the sixth trumpet.


14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men
--Rev 9