Author Topic: Where and When...  (Read 1105 times)

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Offline willieH

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Where and When...
« on: August 12, 2007, 04:46:55 AM »
willieH: Hello!  me brathiz   :rocker   &  sistiz...   :girlheart:

We've spoken of this before, but let's try it again on this new version of Tentmaker! 

The "term" ETERNITY... is one that cannot be truly beheld by finite beings... for we have not the ability to percieve entities that have NO BEGINNING or ENDING... so the terms which are found translated ETERNAL or EVERLASTING... are thereby set outside of the human comprehension range... and therefore are a useless terminology to teach...

It is something like trying to teach differentiation of colors to a blind man... which is not possible, because the man does not possess the TOOL necessary, which is the ability to SEE...  Because we stand within a realm based upon beginnings and endings, we cannot behold or understand something or anything that has neither of these limitations...

This does not mean the existence of an EVERLASTING state, is INVALID by any means... but terms which we use to define OUR realm of Time, in which ALL THINGS have beginnings and endings, ...cannot (validly) be applied to that which does NOT have these two main characteristics... such as ETERNITY...

OWLAM (Hebrew) and AION/AIONIOS (greek) have been so translated (as EVERLASTING)... I suggest this translation to be invalid... AION/AIONIOS and OLAM both deal with amounts of TIME... and their use in translation sometimes suggests a beginning without an end... rather than WITHOUT Beginning OR End... big difference...

OWLAM appears in many OT verses such as 1 Chro 16:17 / 2 Sam 23:5 / Lev 24:8 / Lev 16:34... and it is immediatly apparent that these instances of the use of Owlam, had both a beginning, and also found an end...

AIONIOS has the same type of properties, which disqualify it from being considered truly ETERNAL... As is noted in its application to the FIRE found in  Jude 7 (the fire of Sodom & Gomorrah is no longer burning (ended), and the burning actually, had a beginning as well)  this observation shows that the noted scenario was NOT founded in perpetuity (without beginning or end)

Let's use the teaching of HELL for example... If HELL is truly "Everlasting"... then it has ALWAYS BEEN, ...IS, ...and ALWAYS WILL BE...

Not as church theologians suggest OWLAM / AIONIOS to mean ETERNAL, and teach HELL to be UNENDING period, "tacked on" to the end of THIS LIFE...  :thumbdown:

TIME is an invalid measuring tool for that which has no BEGINNING or ENDING... simply because TIME in ALL its increments has both BEGINNINGS and ENDINGS...

If an entity such as YHVH God, Always ...IS... as He states in His Word (which He IS of course!)... then TIME cannot measure His existance... for by definition, HE is INFINITE in ALL "directions" ...and FINITES such as ourselves, are rendered incapable of beholding, or comprehending that existence...

"WHERE" and "WHEN"...

TIME... a commodity that is to come to an END!  In which ALL EVIL is done, and in which ALL things deteriorate, and degenerate, and DIE...

ETERNITY...  THANK GOD, through JESUS CHRIST our Lord, ...that He shall draw ALL to Himself and the ETERNAL LIFE and place in which He IS...

Time shall end, for JESUS said so:

John 6:44 ...No man CAN come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me, draw him and I will raise him on the ...LAST DAY... ...and...

John 12:48 ...He that rejecteth Me, and recieveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him, the same shall judge him in the ...LAST DAY... ...and...

Rev 10:6 ...And sware by Him that liveth for ever and ever, who created Heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, the there should be TIME NO LONGER...

If there shall be a LAST DAY (and there shall!)... then the FOUNDATIONAL element of which all TIME consists (days) in ceasing... will bring the end of days, ...and the end of TIME...

 :clock: ...TIME...  :ticked: 

...is the opposer of ETERNITY... It is the "where and when" things CHANGE,   :Violinhit:  ...and through those changes it is "where" things CORRUPT,   :swordfight:  ...and through that corruption, it is "when" in which ALL things DIE...    :grave:

:boyheart: ...ETERNITY...   :girlheart:

...is "where and when" things CHANGE NOT...   :happyclap: ...and that they do not change is the "when" they do NOT CORRUPT,   :myahoo:  ...and through that incorruption,  ...is "where" things LIVE   :grouppray:

 :Chinscratch:  Any thoughts on Eternity and Time:JCThink:



Peace... :love1:

In  JESUS  ...willieH 

Offline 97531

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Re: Where and When...
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2007, 11:23:47 PM »
Just a thought here

If the Greek to English is incorrectly translated could it not be stated that they used the best word known or in that particular time-frame (no pun intended) dictionary of Greek words. 

Is there no early Greek word that would describe eternal or eternity?  I have seen this argument used before.

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Offline willieH

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Re: Where and When...
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 02:55:00 AM »
willieH: Hi Brother B...  :winkgrin:

 :mblush:  Hope this isn't confusing...  :blah: ...it's hawd to put inta woids...   :Chinscratch:

No matter what word we use in ANY language, the concept (in terms of comprehension) is beyond us...

The terms, ETERNAL and/or EVERLASTING which entail NO Beginning, as well as NO Ending... is beyond Human ability to grasp...

...In the end, the concept itself, cannot even be understood by the ones endeavoring to apply this ("eternal") idea...

Most theology percieves EVERLASTING to mean... from NOW - ON...

But what ETERNAL or EVERLASTING really means is... ALWAYS IS...

We, as FINITES (percieving from our common, TIME oriented position of beginnings and endings) are just unable to fully KNOW or comprehend the concept, which "EVERLASTING or ETERNAL" truly proposes...

Many HELL believers would find objection to the term ETERNAL (which they so readily "apply" to it)... as meaning that "HELL" has ALWAYS been burning, IS burning and, always WILL BE burning...  They are okay with the "from now-on" idea... but the "ALWAYS" thing includes not only the present and future, but the PAST as well...

Their observation is... that at the END of this LIFE... it (eternal HELL) ...BEGINS, for the poor souls which enter it!  This is an incorrect observation of the word ETERNAL...

AIONIOS and OWLAM... propose this... but time-bound observers of these words are still leaving OUT the "NO BEGINNING" part... which admittedly lies beyond ALL of us...

We, as TIME-bounds, can envision living IN an "ETERNAL" (never ending) FUTURE... because we are moving into it (the future), moment by moment, ...but what we are completely unable to envision is ACTIVELY living IN an "ETERNAL" (never ending) PAST...

Also... IF the punishment for SIN is HELL... (which it isn't, but just for discussions sake), ...then JESUS went to HELL in order to compensate - right?   :JCThink:  WRONG!  :mnah:

If this would be actually TRUE, and HELL is ETERNAL, ...then JESUS IS burning FOREVER for US... always HAS BEEN burning forever for us, and always WILL BE burning forever for us...  :omg: :mnah:

YHVH noted Himself as "I AM"... which includes NOW in ALL phases... past, present, future... in TIME... but in ETERNITY, He just (as He noted), ...IS...  (and we will be, just "IS" as well)

PAUL noted NOW is the Day of Salvation... what "NOW" did he mean? ...ALL DAYS, which contain ALL NOW'S!  The "DAY" of Salvation is TIME...

JESUS noted NOW is the JUDGEMENT... what NOW? ALL NOW'S!  The NOW of the JUDGMENT is TIME...

Again, bro, hope I didn't sound too confusing...  :heat:

Peace bro...  :Peace:

In  JESUS  ...willieH  :trampoline: