Author Topic: Conciliation and Reconciliation  (Read 4284 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Conciliation and Reconciliation
« on: July 02, 2009, 08:42:07 PM »
Quote
In the Greek, the word for 'conciliation' is commonly mistranslated 'reconciliation' but there is a big difference between these two words. Conciliation is one-sided, and reconciliation is both sides at peace. See Concordant Version. Humanity as a whole is not reconciled to God as yet, but God is conciliated to humanity at present, refusing to reckon their offences against them and continually holding out His hand of friendship and peace to all who will believe. See 2 Corinthians 5:14-21. For further study, see article entitled 'The Conciliation of the World'.

Full article: www.purposeoflife.org.uk/files/Download/the_evangel.pdf

Mentioned in the article above: http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/files/Download/conciliation.pdf

« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 09:40:10 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Tim B

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009, 09:47:47 PM »
That's a very cool article. I haven't finished it all the way yet, but I read most of it late last night. Good find!  :bigGrin:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2009, 04:07:20 AM »
Quote
In the Greek, the word for 'conciliation' is commonly mistranslated 'reconciliation' but there is a big difference between these two words. Conciliation is one-sided, and reconciliation is both sides at peace. See Concordant Version. Humanity as a whole is not reconciled to God as yet, but God is conciliated to humanity at present, refusing to reckon their offences against them and continually holding out His hand of friendship and peace to all who will believe. See 2 Corinthians 5:14-21. For further study, see article entitled 'The Conciliation of the World'.

Full article: http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/conciliation%20doc.htm

 :cloud9: Haven't read the article, but that's a good point! Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2009, 08:16:13 AM »
So basicly the article claims this: Since creation God is standing 'there' with His arm extended and only a few want to shake hands.
Sounds good but brings us nowhere in the UR-ET debate. God stops extending His arm after death. As a matter of fact He only extends His arm to a handful...
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Tim B

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2009, 07:15:02 AM »
So basicly the article claims this: Since creation God is standing 'there' with His arm extended and only a few want to shake hands.
Sounds good but brings us nowhere in the UR-ET debate. God stops extending His arm after death. As a matter of fact He only extends His arm to a handful...

Dude, are you talking about another article? Because this article definitely says this, and I quote:

Quote
Now in verse 20, Paul clearly reveals that God will RECONCILE ALL to Himself, making peace, through Christ's sacrifice and Christ's ministry. The ALL includes 'those on the earth' (i.e. humanity) and 'those in the heavens' (i.e. the spirit beings), which has to include even Satan himself! Now this is Good News! This is real Power! This is real Victory! This is love and grace reigning Supreme! This is God's ultimate Purpose for ALL - Universal Reconciliation! Let us believe it and rejoice in it!

(Bold and italics are mine.)

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2009, 08:49:21 AM »
Hi Tim,

The quote in my first message is a from half way down this page: http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/the%20evangel%20doc.htm
Quote
and continually holding out His hand of friendship and peace to all who will believe.

Then I wrote this:
Quote
Sounds good but brings us nowhere in the UR-ET debate. God stops extending His arm after death. As a matter of fact He only extends His arm to a handful...
Maybe not clear enough but I was trying to say:
If we show the quote/research of the meaning of (re)conciliation the typical ET response will be pointing to the words in red. Most will not believe. Most will not shake hands with God. And after you die God doesn't want to shake hands anymore.

So, Tim, your quote is 100% correct but useless for the ET vs UR debate because this is basicly another "all verse"; and all means all of the elect to them.
I hope this clears up the misunderstanding  :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2012, 09:52:23 PM »
Found something odd I can't really 'connect' yet.
Altough not the same words they are related. But they seem so far apart.
Note: It's Hebrew not Greek as in the articles above
 
 
 

 
1344 (n) be sony, repent, regret, be comforted, comfort. Not used in the Qal, n occurs chiefly in the Niphal and Piel.
Derivatives
1344a
(n) sorrow, repentance (Hos 13:14, only).
1344b (ni) comfort (Isa 57:18), compassion (Hos 11:8).
1344c (ne) comfort (Ps 119:50; Job 6:10).
1344d (tanm) consolation (e.g. Jer 16:7; Isa 66:11).
The origin of the root seems to reflect the idea of UT 19: no. 1230) and is found in ot proper names such as Nehemiah, Nahum, and Menehem. The LXX renders n by both metanoe and metamelomai.
The KJV translates the Niphal of nsh (q.v.), meaning Gen 6:6: Ex 32:14; Jud 2:18; I Sam 15:11 et al.), i.e. he relents or changes his dealings with men according to his sovereign purposes. On the surface, such language seems inconsistent, if not contradictory, with certain passages which affirm GodI Sam 15:29 contra v. 11); Ps 110:4). When n is used of God, however, the expression is anthropopathic and there is not ultimate tension. From manI Chr 21:15; Jer 18:8; 26:3, 19; Amos 7:3, 6; Jon 3:10). Certainly Jer 18:7 is a striking reminder that from GodThe Prophets, p. 194) has said,

The second primary meaning of
n is naIsa 40:1). The same word occurs in Ps 23:4, where David says of his heavenly Shepherd, II Sam 10:2; I Chr 19:2; Isa 61:2; Jer 16:7; 31:15). People were consoled for a death of an infant child (II Sam 12:24), teenage son (Gen 37:35), mother (Gen 24:67), wife (Gen 38:12) et al. A mother might comfort her child (Isa 66:13) but it is God who comforts his people (Ps 71:21; 86:17; 119:82; Isa 12:1; 49:13; 52:9). Godni, a derivative of n) grows warm and tenderHos 11:8).
Bibliography: Girdlestone, Robert B., Synonyms of the Old Testament, Eerdmans, 1956, pp. 87A Theological Word Book of the Bible, ed. Alan Richardson, London: SCM, 1957, pp. 191[/color][/size]ZPEB[/size], V, pp. 62[/size]THAT[/size], II, pp. 59
[/size]
M.R.W.
[/size]
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

anna274

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2012, 10:07:03 PM »
Oh my...    I've mulled long and hard on Gen 6:6 and Isaiah 40:1    repent/comfort???   I've not yet carefully read your post, but I'm certain it will shed some more light ...  so much to learn, to enjoy, to give thanks, praise...   God bless, Anna

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 12:16:55 PM »
1344 (n) be sorry, repent, regret, be comforted, comfort. Not used in the Qal, n occurs chiefly in the Niphal and Piel.

Qal

Qal is the most frequently used verb pattern. It expresses the
"simple" or "causal" action of the root in the active voice.

Examples:
He sat,  he ate,  he went,  he said,  he rose,  he bought

This form accounts for 66.7% of the verbs parsed.
Niphal

a) Niphal is the "passive" of Qal-See [H8851]

Qal                    Niphal
He saw                 he was seen,  he appeared
He saw the angel       the angel was seen
He sent                he was sent
He created             it was created

b) Niphal sometimes expresses a "reflexive" action.
He guarded             he was guarded,  also
He guarded himself

c) Several verbs use Niphal,  although they express simple action
and are active in English. Common examples are:
He fought,  he remained,  he swore,  he entered

This form accounts for 6.0% of the verbs parsed.
Piel

a) Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action.

Qal                  Piel
He broke             he broke to pieces,  he smashed
He sent              he sent away,  he expelled

b) Sometimes the Piel introduces a new meaning to the Qal form.
He counted           he recounted,  he told
He completed         he paid,  he compensated
He learned           he taught

c) Piel expresses a "repeated" or "extended" action.
He jumped            he skipped,  he hopped

d) Some intransitive verbs in Qal become transitive in Piel.

to be strong         to strengthen,  to fortify
to become great      to make great.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 10:03:37 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

anna274

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 06:30:25 PM »
1344 (n) be sony, repent, regret, be comforted, comfort. Not used in the Qal, n occurs chiefly in the Niphal and Piel.

Qal

Qal is the most frequently used verb pattern. It expresses the
"simple" or "causal" action of the root in the active voice.

Examples:
He sat,  he ate,  he went,  he said,  he rose,  he bought

This form accounts for 66.7% of the verbs parsed.
Niphal

a) Niphal is the "passive" of Qal-See [H8851]

Qal                    Niphal
He saw                 he was seen,  he appeared
He saw the angel       the angel was seen
He sent                he was sent
He created             it was created

b) Niphal sometimes expresses a "reflexive" action.
He guarded             he was guarded,  also
He guarded himself

c) Several verbs use Niphal,  although they express simple action
and are active in English. Common examples are:
He fought,  he remained,  he swore,  he entered

This form accounts for 6.0% of the verbs parsed.
Piel

a) Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action.

Qal                  Piel
He broke             he broke to pieces,  he smashed
He sent              he sent away,  he expelled

b) Sometimes the Piel introduces a new meaning to the Qal form.
He counted           he recounted,  he told
He completed         he paid,  he compensated
He learned           he taught

c) Piel expresses a "repeated" or "extended" action.
He jumped            he skipped,  he hopped

d) Some intransitive verbs in Qal become transitive in Piel.

to be strong         to strengthen,  to fortify
to become great      to make great.

Hi WW:

oops... almost missed this...  thanks, this is some good additional info for me to use.  and now that I have your attention... what do you have re:  likeness, figure, like, as, etc.  ...  perhaps you have already posted some on these words...  God bless, anna

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 06:48:53 PM »
Do you have a verse Anna?
English translations are often bad. Meaning likeness can be translated from various Hebrew words.
To understand a certain verse we must start with the correct Hebrew or Greek word.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 06:54:46 PM »
For example
Gen 31:34 Refers to idol statues
Gen 1:26 Refers to God or pagan gods (Obviously God in this verse but the word itself also to pagan gods)

The Hebrew words used are totally different.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

anna274

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 07:04:15 PM »
Do you have a verse Anna?
English translations are often bad. Meaning likeness can be translated from various Hebrew words.
To understand a certain verse we must start with the correct Hebrew or Greek word.


Oh WW... you're so quick to come to our aid...  I'm particularly interested in the use of "likeness" because at least in one instance in OT... Man is created in the "likeness" of God (Gen 1:26) and in the NT Jesus came in the "likeness" of sinful flesh (Rom 8:3)????

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 07:11:27 PM »
Have to look into it but the verse you request is quite difficult.
Some say it's just "look like"
Others say it means outline or shadow.
Like Jesus is the corona of the sun and we are the filled dark part inside that corona.
I have search for details.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 07:35:34 PM »
Quick reply Anna. To much PC time the last 2 days. My eyes are squares and burn.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/breath-of-life-8901/msg110490/#msg110490
http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/shadow-shadow-and-image/msg81911/#msg81911

Genesis 1:26-28



As God created, it is extremely significant that of all He created, only one creation is in His image, mankind. This is important to the purpose God is working out. Also, it is significant that of all the creatures God created, only mankind is given dominion over anything else, animate or inanimate.

Verses 26 and 28 show the first inkling of man's awesome potential. We are in God's likeness and His image, and have been given dominion in order to fulfill that potential.

If one looked up the word "image" in a Hebrew dictionary, it would not be very satisfying, being a typical textbook definition. It merely means "a shadowing forth, a phantom, a sketch, an outline." It gives the impression of a mere shape, a stickman. However, it has another, more interesting definition that means "whatever makes a man remarkable or procures respect."

The word "likeness" is commonly thought by linguists to mean nothing more than an intensification of the word "image." Even though it is a different word, its meaning is very similar. Putting those two words together, the Hebrew clearly shows that we are remarkable, especially in comparison to all other life. We are in the image of God.

Though we are remarkable, we are merely an outline, a mere copy or representation. We are illusory compared to God, because He is the reality.

The word "image" deserves further examination. The word "image" could evoke different mental images depending upon one's perspective. Over the past several decades in the United States, "image" has acquired a deceptive application that obscures its true meaning. This application skews one's understanding, interfering with the meaning God intends.

For example, today, a politician hires a publication firm to create an image for him that the people will find acceptable, and, thus, vote him into office. If someone is trying to find employment, they dress a certain way to project a particular image for employers to perceive. Corporations also try very hard to find the right image before the public.

To an American, an "image" has subtly come to mean "the illusion of what something is presented to be" rather than "the essence of what it really is."

In Hebrew, the word translated "image" is not "a deceptive illusion." Rather, image means "the likeness of one subject expressed in another." This difference is important. It means, "the likeness of one subject, God, expressed in the other, man." The verse indirectly says that man is very much like God.

The Hebrew meaning is frequently used in English in reference to family resemblance or characteristics. We say that a child is the spitting image of his father or his mother, possibly referring to physical or social traits.

The "image" is no illusion; it is the reality. It is the family trait. It is the essence of reality.



Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/bible.show/sVerseID/28/eVerseID/28#ixzz1xyUw0Vx0
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

anna274

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Re: Conciliation and Reconciliation
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 07:59:36 PM »
First and very, very important... please, please rest your eyes... this new information will be sufficient for me for studying for a couple of days.  Thank you dear WW...  our physical eye sight is too important to overuse, misuse, abuse  (but, of course, you know that)  ... Take care and God bless you abundantly, anna