Author Topic: healing in hebrews  (Read 953 times)

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Offline erwan

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healing in hebrews
« on: July 13, 2012, 09:18:30 PM »
healing in hebrews means that the maladie has been totally destroyed . But does it may mean only that the EFFECTS,DISAGREMENTS are destroyed for the time of TREATMENT (2 kings 2:21), and that the salt is continually working ?
thank you for your help

Offline reFORMer

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2012, 08:48:42 AM »
Sometimes I feel like I want to bite something, like everybody else speaks a foreign language and no treatment can help me.

The words don't always fit together in our minds.  Just stay with the Holy Spirit.  When we call on Jesus' name He answers us.  He shows Jesus to us, makes us to know Him.  That's what makes us like Jesus, seeing Him.  Even the name Jesus has healing in its meaning.  "Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."  That being saved includes healing.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline jabcat

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2012, 11:36:34 AM »
like everybody else speaks a foreign language and no treatment can help me.


Good post, but this part is actually funny.  I think erwan is posting from France.   :dsunny:

------
Hi erwan, could you explain what you mean a little more?  are you asking "is healing temporary", or "is healing immediate but also God keeps protecting and helping us over time, etc."?  Thanks, and blessings, James.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 12:20:16 PM »
Hi erwan, could you explain what you mean a little more?  are you asking "is healing temporary", or "is healing immediate but also God keeps protecting and helping us over time, etc."?  Thanks, and blessings, James.
My understanding:

Healing in the Jewish mind means that the illness has been totally detroyed. But perhaps it means only the symptoms are destroyed and the real healing is done afterwards by the salt?

(2Kgs 2:21) And he went forth to the spring of the waters, and cast salt therein, and said, Thus says LORD, I have healed these waters. There shall not be from there any more death or barren land.

So looking at the above verse:
- Waters destroy the symptoms, outward appearance, immediately.
- Salt is the long term cure. (inward cure)

That's my understanding from Erwan's post
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline erwan

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2012, 04:11:35 PM »
whitewings you have understood my question
maybe the purification in the lake of fire is endless: people are purified each moment of the eternity so they are seen "not dirty" by God
i wish i am wrong

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2012, 04:42:13 PM »
You are wrong.

Only purity enters heaven. No human (except Jesus) ever was pure.
That includes all prophets, Apostles and saints.
Is heaven empty?
Not according to Revelation.
So the LoF process is not everlasting.
The effect is.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2012, 08:16:24 PM »

Only purity enters heaven. No human (except Jesus) ever was pure.
So the LoF process is not everlasting.
The effect is.

 :thumbsup:  Whom the Son sets free is free indeed!
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline eaglesway

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2012, 03:28:52 PM »
one view of the lake of fire is this.

In revelations Jesus is depicted as having eyes that are as flames of fire. the eye is the light(portal into) of the soul.

Jesus is the fulness of the Godhead in bodily form and our God is a consuming fire

"For so it pleased the Father for all the fulness to dwell in Him and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself."(Col 1)

God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all(1 Jn).

The light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it(Jn 1).

Everything hidden in darkness shall be brought to light.

All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do(Hebrews 4). Eyes of fire.

Light is fire to darkness. Evrything that is brought to the light becomes light. The Lake of fire could be an experience of being suspended in anapproachable light until everything hidden in darkness is brought to light, every adversary bows the knee and is set free into the ALL IN ALL of God which is universal love.

Those of us who have bowed the knee already are being tried by fire already(Peter).

Peter reveals that everything that is, is reserved for transformation by fire, after which, there will be a new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
(2Pe 3:4-13)

Many people concentrate on the world "destroyed"nasb or "dissolved"kjv here but notice, the earth was not destroyed in the flood. It was purged, cleansed, renewed, transformed. The dove returned with a fig leaf. This is a statement of peace on earth good will towards men.

The greek word there is "luo" to loosen, break up. This to me speaks to the removal of the veil that covers the nations. "Upon this mountain I will remove the veil that covers the peoples".

That mountain is spiritual Zion, the place of the dwelling of the souls of His feet, the place where all his enemies are being made a footstool for His feet, the throne of God- where the Lamb is the Lamp and God is the Light in the midst of it.

It is written that the adversary and His angels(messengers) will be tormented "in the presence of God and His holyangels/ messengers".

It is written, "Know you not that you shall judge angels?"

Eze 28:14  "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15  "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Eze 28:16  "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.

Here we see "destroyed from the midst" meaning forcibly removed.

Like the "axe being laid to the root of the trees". Like unfruitful branches being cut-off, gathered, and thrown into the fire. Like the chaff being winnoed out from the seed and burned with "unquenchable fire".

The fire works upon all, for God is becoming all in all.....but it is taking some time, as He has planned it, an administration suitable to the fulness of times. The lake of fire may describe one such administration.

The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it. For He has founded it upon the seas And established it upon the rivers. Who may ascend into the hill of the LORD? And who may stand in His holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood And has not sworn deceitfully. He shall receive a blessing from the LORD And righteousness from the God of his salvation. This is the generation of those who seek Him, Who seek Your face--even Jacob. Lift up your heads, O gates, And be lifted up, O ancient doors, That the King of glory may come in! Who is the King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, The LORD mighty in battle. Lift up your heads, O gates, And lift them up, O ancient doors, That the King of glory may come in! Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, He is the King of glory.
(Psa 24:1-10)

Everyone will be salted with fire and every sacrifice seasoned with salt.





The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2012, 05:46:37 PM »
 :goodpost:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: healing in hebrews
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2012, 07:44:58 PM »

5.Revelation 9:5
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Revelation 9:4-6 (in Context) Revelation 9 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

6.Revelation 11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Revelation 11:9-11 (in Context) Revelation 11 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

7.Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone (theon- godfire) in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Revelation 14:9-11 (in Context) Revelation 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

8.Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:9-11 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

In these passages torment is the following Greek word

basanos: a touchstone (a dark stone used in testing metals), hence examination by torture, torture

Of couse the definition is entirely conditioned by culture and prejudice....... There is no reason why "a touchstone".... used in "testing precious metals" should be equated automatically with "examination by torture"- In Fact It Is Just The Opposite. The precious metal here is MANKIND, the value of which, as God's creation, is measured by the value of THE SACRIFICE HE MADE TO REDEEM IT.
 And as it is written in many places, we kno that the sacrifice was sufficient TO REDEEM IT ALL.

Also consider who/what this touchstone IS. It is the divine nature of God in Christ, or, as defined in 2 Cor 4

3 But if our gospel(good news) be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ

and in Hebrews 1

God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2  in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.

which folds into Romans 2

 For when Gentiles who do not have [m]the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

On the Day, in the Daylight, the Secrets of Men's Hearts will be Revealed/exposed/brought to the surface by the Light/Fire/Presence of the Lamp that searches the souls of men.....the Word that is sharper than any two edged sword dividing asunder soul and spirit MAKING MANIFEST the thoughts and intentions of the heart .


Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting.............

 
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment(olam/aionian kolassis): but the righteous into life eternal.

It is easy, because of translation, our training and our culture(a culture of a god who hates and calls it love), to read this   ".....these shall burn forever; but the righteous shall live forever"

I won't get too far into olam/aionian here because it has been well covered on this site, but I will submit that what it should read is......

these shall go into correction(kolasin) in the age to come; but the righteous will go [paraphrase.... directly into] the life(zoe)of the age to come.

Why? Briefly

Aionian, from Olam(meaning the world to come) in Hebrew. To this day, olam ha-ba means the afterlife(interestingly enough, characterized as a wedding feast in rabbinical teaching). Olam Ha-ze, means this world (characterized as a trial and preparation for the world to come).
Olam, in ancient Hebrew, was a word used to characterize an indefinite period, or a dimly seen period of time because of far ancientness or far futureness or otherworldiness(as in beyond the veil of the flesh-i.e. spiritworld, or the world to come-i.e. beyond the pale of death)

Jesus characterized this experience of "aionian kolassis" also as "aionian pur" and "gehenna pur"....... and described it as a very difficult experience for those who will endure it- "better to pluck out your eye" and enter the heavens blind, etc.

Why?


God is light. Light is fire to darkness. God is love. God is a consuming fire. Love is a consuming fire. Love is not always comfortable. Love/light/fire can surround hate/darkness/chaos and force it to the surface like anti-bodies forcing an infection to the surface of the skin(where it can be lanced, drained, disinfected and covered with healing balm).

This to me is the lake of fire.

When John the Baptist preached we read that those believed "were baptized in the Jordan river confessing their sins".

They were salted with fire and the fire brought hidden things to light. They judged themselves, therefore escaping "aionian kolasis". Jesus later said to His disciples, "you are all clean because of the word I have spoken unto you".....Then He said, but you are not all clean....because there was one among them carrying a corrupting secret in His heart- he had not gone "all in" into the fire.

Through that secret the adversary lured Judas into evil. "lead me not into temptation, but deliver me from evil, for thine is the kingdom, and the power and the glory throughout all ages, amen"

This is what baptism represents to me.

Therefore, "confess your faults one to another and pray for each other that you may be healed"(James)

Stay in the fire. Stay "all in". Find those one or two with whom you can be completely humble and completely honest and "come clean"......"Let there be light".

If we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship(koinonea) with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.(1 John)

 This is how we walk among the stones of fire.....enter into His holy hill......abide in His presence so that we can look ibnto His flaming eyes and rejoice in our cleansing by His blood- because we are not "hiding in the garden", "kept at bay by a flaming sword", but rather, "having our hearts sprinklled clean from and evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water" we have "free access by a new and living way into the holy of holies".

"Not many days hence, I will baptize you with the holy spirit and with fire".
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com