Author Topic: Is David in Heaven?  (Read 1246 times)

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Offline Rhodes

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Is David in Heaven?
« on: August 27, 2012, 12:29:02 AM »
50 days after the Cross of Christ Peter said 
Quote
Act 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead
and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Peter says that, David the person, IS BOTH DEAD AND BURIED...he does not say..David's body is dead
and buried, BUT DAVID IS DEAD AND BURIED and his tomb is with us TO THIS DAY!!

Peter certainly did not believe that David was in heaven after the cross. Instead Peter said, indeed God says that David is Dead in the grave to this day.

Church Tradition says that David is in heaven...the Bible says that he is dead and buried!!!

Supposedly Jesus went down to hell and took the Old Testament saints with Him to heaven...but
Peter by inspiration of the Holy Spirit said the opposite....David is both dead and buried and his tomb
is with us to this day.
No, no, no Peter!!! David is not dead!! No silly man, he is in heaven now playing his harp. Hmmm?
No. David IS dead and buried. 
An Aussie who believes God is God enough, and Love enough to save all.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Is David in Heaven?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2012, 04:37:01 PM »
In ways similar to when we are embodied, Paul seems to think we can experience things as a spirit apart from the body.  He believes He could be out of the body and snatched, seized, possessed (Greek: harpazo-ed) by God to go into the third heaven or into Paradise.

2 Corinthians 121-5 (Concordant Literal)
1 If boasting must be, though it is not expedient, indeed, yet I shall also be coming to apparitions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I am acquainted with a man in Christ, fourteen years before this, (whether in a body I am not aware, or outside of the body, I am not aware -- God is aware) such a one was snatched away to the third heaven.
3 And I am acquainted with such a man (whether in a body or outside of the body I am not aware -- God is aware)
4 that he was snatched away into paradise and hears ineffable declarations, which it is not allowed a man to speak.
5 Over such a one I shall be boasting; yet over myself I shall not be boasting, except in my infirmities.
________________________________________

Peter also said Jesus, after he was put to death, went in the spirit and preached to the dead.

1 Peter 318-20 (Concordant Literal)
18 seeing that Christ also, for our sakes, once died concerning sins, the just for the sake of the unjust, that He may be leading us to God; being put to death, indeed, in flesh, yet vivified in spirit,
19 in which, being gone to the spirits in jail also,
20 He heralds to those once stubborn
, when the patience of God awaited in the days of Noah while the ark was being constructed, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were brought safely through water...

Notice the KJV in the following says, "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead."

1 Peter 46 (Concordant Literal)
6 For for this an evangel is brought to the dead also, that they may be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, yet should be living according to God, in spirit.

Distinguishing these idea and approving of one or the other should not determine our relationship with each other.  God sees our hearts and whether we are humbly pursuing His Truth or not.  I've changed in my understanding about many things.  Through it all Jesus has never forsaken me.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Rhodes

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Re: Is David in Heaven?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2012, 07:32:04 PM »
Good answer, especially the last parts. Love(Jesus) is the glue not doctrine
An Aussie who believes God is God enough, and Love enough to save all.

Offline Rhodes

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Re: Is David in Heaven?
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 01:52:45 AM »
You quoted from the Concordant version. This is what Knoch who translated the concordant version says about these passages in his commentary.

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1Pe 3:18  For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
1Pe 3:19  by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
1Pe 3:20  who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.


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18 A grasp of the apostle's argument here will help us through this difficult passage. The
subject is suffering for doing good. The Example is Christ and those sufferings which came to
Him as they come to His disciples, because of the sin which surrounded Him. The argument is
that He, though put to death, has now been exalted, even over the messengers and authorities
and powers of the spirit realm (22), therefore those who suffer for doing good will also be
exalted in due time.
With this in mind, it is evident that it is not the evangel which is proclaimed to the spirits in
prison, for that would be entirely out of line with I Peter 3:19-5:4
the argument. It would imply that, as a result of their sufferings, their enemies will be
evangelized. Such grace is foreign to Peter's epistles. The word here used is not evangelize,
but herald or proclaim. It tells us, not that they were blessed, but that He was exalted. And
what is more likely than that, after His ascension, He should be proclaimed the universal
Suzerain to all creation, obedient or rebellious?
19 Who are these imprisoned spirits ? Are they not the same that Peter mentions in his second
epistle (2:4) who were thrust down to the gloomy caverns of Tartarus, and the messengers of
Jude's epistle (6) , who kept not their own sovereignty and left their own habitation?
The fact that they are called spirits, assures us that they are not human. The proclamation
was not made to them during our Lord's death, but after He had been made alive. It was a
token of His exaltation. In due time all will be subjected to Him, not only Israel on the earth in
the kingdom, and all the rest of humanity in the resurrection, but all sovereignty and authority
and power in the spirit realm, so that, at the consummation God may become All in all.
21 Baptism, with repentance, are the two essentials for entrance into the kingdom (Ac.2:38).
6 This difficult passage depends, for its interpretation, on the force of the interjected "indeed",
which is usually omitted in translation. Even when present in the English, its force is not
readily perceived. It must be evident to all that there is a turn in the argument, for the evangel
is not the precursor of judgment from God, nor is it according to men. This judgment, then, is
not God's but man's. Men judged them according to their own standards. They are judged,
"indeed", but not in the judgment of the living and the dead just mentioned (5). The next
statement, that they should be living according to God, makes it evident that the evangel was
not preached to them after they had died. Men could not judge them, in flesh, nor could they
live according to God, in spirit, after they had died. They are dead now, but the preaching and judging and living were all apart of their experience before they fell asleep.
An Aussie who believes God is God enough, and Love enough to save all.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Is David in Heaven?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 10:05:48 PM »
Knochs speculative conclusions are not of course, sustained by a sufficient volume of scripture that anyone should take a stand on them, anymore than on any of these flimsy debates based on very few scriptures, over which Christian's speak as if they are in the know, and treat the other interpretations of the matter as obviously deceived.

Some things we just see through a glass darkly :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com