Author Topic: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God  (Read 10502 times)

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ItIsFinished

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2010, 03:38:12 AM »
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

        Benjamin Franklin (I think), with Martin Luther and his sidekick Philip Melanchton in agreement I suppose!

Online WhiteWings

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2010, 09:46:28 AM »
In that case you found an error in the Bible  :laughing7:

Psalm 30:5 Weeping may last for the night, but there is a song of joy in the morning.

But if you add beer to the mix the song is in the evening and the sorrow/headache in the morning  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2010, 06:31:49 AM »
I am enjoying your posts lizzybeth.  :HeartThrob:

Offline rosered

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 04:00:53 PM »
Hey Gals .. hee hee  :icon_flower:    Good to see ya SQ  :thumbsup:
 
  I to have been reading your Posts Lizzybeth  and I also feel the same way you do about being perfect , I think only God can  decide who is and who is not perfect / Complete in Him , till He gets done with us we wait upon the Lord   ..
 
 and
  I am not perfect by no means , till the Lord finishes His work in us all ,
 be blessed sis  :HeartThrob:

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2010, 04:15:00 PM »
I am not perfect by no means , till the Lord finishes His work in us all ,
The work on Rose Red is never finished. If the work stops the house dies  :laughing7:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2010, 11:27:06 PM »
The existence of God cannot be proven scientifically. Nor does it need to be. It can, however be discussed from a philosophical standpoint. The ancient philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle accepted the existence of God based on philosophical reasoning.

Plato reasoned that the universe could not have been created out of nothing. (Ex Nihilo)

Aristotle held that a "prime mover" or "unmoved mover" must have set the universe in motion.

Parmenides said that "nothing can come from nothing".

The essence of these arguments is that, even traced back to its earliest form, the highly compressed single ball of matter that exploded to create the universe had to have come from somewhere. Where? Creationism gets too specific and literal for me. I prefer not to limit God in His ability to create the universe as He saw fit. Understanding it starts with understanding the purpose for it. (Our being here in the first place) That is a much deeper matter.

The problem is that creationists have tried to argue that it is a science. It is not a science.

Agreed belief in God does not come from science.  We can not prove the existance of God.  With that said, I can't look at a tree and not see God.  When I wake up in the morning I feel God's presence...well maybe after my coffee.   :winkgrin:  I have seen his handiwork through my life and need no further convincing.

Offline thinktank

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2010, 12:48:31 AM »
Perhaps science will one day prove the existence of God, I don't think it would convert many though.

Offline Robert Sparks

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2013, 05:57:32 AM »
PROPHECIES FULFILLED BY JESUS CHRIST

 

The Old Testament, written over a 1,000 year period, contains over 300 references to the coming Messiah. All of these were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and they established a solid confirmation of His credentials as the Messiah; the Anointed One (King; Priest; Saint); Intercessor (to release or deliver; help; meet; seek; accompany).

 

Many of the prophecies concerning the messiah were totally beyond human control:

Birth: Place, time, manner of.

Death: Peoples reactions, piercing of side, burial

Resurrection: Where did His body go?

By using the modern science of probability in reference to just eight of these prophecies --- the chance that any man might have lived to fulfill all eight prophecies is one in one hundred trillion!

 

To illustrate this: If we take 100 trillion silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas, they would be two feet deep. Now we mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly --- all over the state. Now blindfold a man and let him travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick only one silver dollar. What chance would he have of picking the right one? The same chance that the prophets would have of writing just eight of these prophecies and having them all come true for any one man --- if they had written them without God's inspiration!

 

The chance of any one man fulfilling all of 48 prophecies is one in 10 to the 157 power. The electron is about as small an object as we can imagine. if we had a cubic inch of these electrons and tried to count them, it would take us (at 250 per minute) 19,000 time 19,000 time 19,000 years to count them. Now mark one of them, and thoroughly stir it into the whole mass. What chance does our blindfolded man have of finding the right electron? --- The same chance as one man of fulfilling 48 of the prophecies about Christ, without being the Son of God!
 

Jesus Christ fulfilled every prophecy written about the coming Messiah --- over three hundred of them! Would that have been possible had He not been the Son of God?

 

Here is a short listing of some of the hundreds of prophecies concerning Christ:

 

Linage Genesis 3:15; 9:26: 22:18; 26:4; 28:14; 49:10; 2 & Samual 7:12-16

Son of God Psalm 2:6-7

Virgin birth Isaiah 7:14

Birthplace Micah 5:2

Piercing of side Zechariah 12:10

Darkness Psalm 22:2

Vinegar Psalm 69:21

Mocking Psalm 22:6-8

Nakedness Psalm 22:17

Gambling for clothes Psalm 22:18

Unbroken bones Psalm 34:20

Burial Isaiah 53:9

Resurrection Psalm 16:10; Hosea 6:2; Psalm 30:3,9; Isaiah 53:10

Assention to right hand of God Psalm 110:1; 68:18; Proverbs 30:4; 24:3-10

Jesus only fulfilled half of the prophecies concerning the Messiah. One reason why Jews don't accept Jesus is their argument that he only fulfilled half of the Messianic Prophecies. The reason why this is is because there are what appear to be 2 Messiahs in the Old Testament. The suffering servant and the Lion of Judah. Jesus fulfilled the suffering servant role and will fulfill the Lion of Judah prophecies when he returns. The Jews couldn't imagine the same Messiah who comes, leaves and then comes back and thus the confusion. When Christ came they were expecting the Lion not the Lamb. Who would wait for and hope for the arrival of a suffering servant? It wasn't the popular Messiah to expect but that's who came fulfilling half of the prophecies.

Offline T-Bone

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2013, 06:42:50 PM »
ALL VERY INTERESTING POSTS .

I MUST SAY THOUGH THAT IN MY CASE I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN A NATURAL BELIEVER AND NEVER DOUBTED THAT THERE WAS A GOD .

TO GROW UP IN HIS CREATION, HOW COULD I THINK OTHERWISE FOR EVEN THE APOSTLE PAUL HAS SAID THAT NONE OF US HAVE ANY EXCUSE TO NOT SEEK THE LORD BECAUSE OF THE REALITY OF THE NATURAL SURROUNDINGS THAT WE ARE BORN INTO AND THE CONSCIENCES THAT WE ARE BORN WITH .

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SCIENCE OR EVOLUTION PER SAY.
THEY HELP EXPLAIN TO ME SOMETHING  OF HOW GOD'S CREATION WORKS, SO TO ME THERE IS NO REASON FOR THE CURRENT  POLITICAL ARGUMENT THAT IS GOING ON THESE DAYS ABOUT TEACHING EVOLUTION VS CREATIONISM, IF IT WERE DONE FAIRLY WITH NO PARTICULAR POLITICAL SLANT TO IT BUT THAT BEGS THE QUESTION "IS IT POSSIBLE TO DO THAT?"

I BELIEVE IN  CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM ( I.E. THE RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS) BUT THINK THAT FROM WHAT I'VE READ ON THIS SITE THIS WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE TO KEEP THIS DISCUSSION OF "IS THERE A GOD" GOING IF IT BRINGS GLORY TO GOD AND NOT TO ANY ONE PARTICULAR POINT OF "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" REGARDING EVOLUTION OR CREATIONISM .

AS FOR THOSE WHO ARE NON-BELIEVERS ON THIS THREAD , I SAY WELCOME AND STICK AROUND .
 WE WELCOME YOUR THOUGHTS AND SEE WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM BUT TO PARAPHRASE JABCAT , GOD IS DRAWING ALL MEN TO HIMSELF AND THE FACT THAT YOU ARE EVEN ON THIS SITE IS EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE SEEKING ( AND BEING DRAWN ).
I GET THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU WANT TO BE CONVINCED JUST AS THE APOSTLE THOMAS WANTED TO BE CONVINCED ALL THE TIME WHICH IS WHY HE IS AFFECTIONATELY CALLED "DOUBTING THOMAS ".
THAT'S OK.
LOOK AT ALL OF THE APOSTLES.
 THEY PRETTY MUCH MAKE UP THE PERSONALITIESS AND TYPES THAT WE SEE IN PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD TODAY PLUS THE SEED OF FAITH "OF" CHIRST DOESN'T ALWAYS FALL ON FERTILE SOIL ALL THE TIME, BUT NOT TO WORRY, THAT DOESN'T KEEP GOD FROM DRAWING YOU TO HIMSELF. HE WILL NEVER STOP DOING THAT FOR HE VENER GIVES UP ON ANY OF US.

WILLIAM BARCLAY, A GREAT SCOTS CHRISTIAN SCHOLAR,  IS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT " GOD HAS A SECRET STAIRWAY TO EVERY HEART" AND I SAY THAT HIS IRRESISTABLE LOVE AND GRACE WILL BRING ALL TO HIMSELF , IF NOT IN THIS AGE BUT IN THE AGE / AGES TO COME.
 OUR JOB IS TO NOT BE A HINDRANCE TO GOD'S "DRAWING TO HIMSELF" BY NOT BEING LOVING AND UNDERSTANDING TO THOSE WHO ARE SEEKING AND INQUIRING.

IT WOULD JUST BE BETTER IF YOU CAME AROUND IN THIS LIFE, IN THIS "AGE OF GRACE " FOR IN THE NEXT AGE "THE CHEESE GETS BINDING".

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2013, 07:16:01 PM »
"The problem is that creationists have tried to argue that it is a science. It is not a science." - said by one of our posters.

The problem is that evolutionists believe that it's science. Wrong. True science is:

1.) observable
2.) testable
3.) repeatable
4.) falsifiable.

Neither creation or evolution fits the definition of science. Unfortunately, evolutionists act as though creationists don't believe in real science when nothing could be further from the truth. Real science is what gave us a man on the moon, communications, computers cars, planes, etc.

God cannot be proven scientifically.
No God cannot be proven scientifically.
Creationism cannot be proven scientifically.
Evolution cannot be proven scientifically.
IMO, neither one should have any part in a science curricula for education. (and I taught high school biology) :Peace2:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline JulieTang84

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2013, 07:31:19 PM »
So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God


Prove to me there isn't.


As Paul said in Romans 1:20 - Everything that can be known about Father can be learned through the study of creation. Of course this means also, science, physics, mathematics, astronomy, biology. The list is truly endless. There is no excuse.


If evolution was without design, then surely we would have eyes in the back of heads, be at least 3 times stronger and 30 times smarter and have the missing hand that is always needed when two is not enough. Of we would be able to see in the dark and I guess we wouldn't mind walking around naked.


Physics and Science have done more to prove the existence of Father than they have ever did to disprove. It's not the data, just the perspective it is viewed from.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:
 
Don't Forget LOVE.

Offline JBerton

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2013, 11:50:47 PM »
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

        Benjamin Franklin (I think), with Martin Luther and his sidekick Philip Melanchton in agreement I suppose!

LIKE
   :laughing7:
:Book: NEVER STOP SEARCHING! :Chinscratch:

Offline JBerton

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2013, 12:03:58 AM »
Hi all,

I have to be honest and say this thread could do with people taking some 101 classes in science and in particular evolution.  You have to offer more than 'Gee look at all this neat stuff in the universe - I have no idea how it all works so God must have done it'.

As a non-believer I have spent many years studying faiths (with emphasis on Christianity) and have at least read and studied all the books in the Bible many times over - I would at least expect the same kind of familiarity by the Christian community with the intricacies of opposing views to their own.

Here is a link to a Christian web site that explains why many scientific concepts that Christians generally disagree with (and don't understand too well) are in fact correct (but that doesn't stop him being a Christian).  Mostly it deals with evolution and why flood geology is just plain wrong http://home.entouch.net/dmd/

All the best,

Jeff - The Agnostic Universalist.

Hey Jeff.
I'm a believer.
You have a good point.
IMO, anyone should know God's existence cannot be proven, not by any method.
We believers believe because of his work in our lives and hearts.
I personally have ample reasons (not proof) that God is real.
I have so many reasons, that no one will ever convince me he's not real.
For me, it's far too much to be mere coincidence.
I, like you, am tired of people coming up with lame "science" to explain things when they don't know what they are talking about.
I have a masters degree in a science-related field and have studied things like evolution and climate/weather.
I believe many of the bible stories, like the great flood and the 6-day creation, to be allegorical.
Frankly, if these stories are taken strictly literally, they are missing the point of the stories - and they all have a point!
The point?  To teach us about the nature of the god whose existence we cannot prove.
As several have already pointed out, it's all about faith.

Best wishes to you in your search for truth!
JBerton.
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Offline marie glen

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2013, 04:45:53 AM »


http://inner-monastery.blogspot.com/p/faith-or-science.html

sorry no time.. catching a plane in a few hours.. this is a study I did a few years back.. Not that most here don't know all of it!  :girlheart:

- Is it written? no repentance after death? if resurrected still in ones sins (2nd Resurrection) will be weeping and wailing? Holy Days - Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles prophecy the three peaks of His long 2nd advent? Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
``````````````````````````````````````````````````
- "...aLL things new" Rev21:5 "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1 - Is 11:7 Micah 4:4 Is 30:25
http://www.bubblews.com/news/8905465 - Sinead O'connor singing psalms 33, 91

Offline lomarah

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2013, 01:38:55 PM »
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

        Benjamin Franklin (I think), with Martin Luther and his sidekick Philip Melanchton in agreement I suppose!

LIKE
   :laughing7:

Blech! I think beer is proof that men have weird taste... ;-P
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2013, 04:40:14 PM »
So...
If the creation story is just an allegorical story, I guess Raising Lazarus from the dead was just an allegorical story.
The parting of the red sea, the plagues on Egypt, the virgin birth, Jesus rising from the dead and walking on water are all allegorical since science has 'proved' them impossible. What a relief. Every story men have told me is just a story I no longer have to believe. Thank God he gave us agnostics so we would know God never meant for us to take his word as correct.
BTW, anyone here think they have a proof of evolution, I'll be happy to give you information where your "proof" has been discredited by evolutionary scientists themselves. Talk about believing in miracles! :Peace2:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline Lazarus Short

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2013, 06:01:28 PM »


Creationism cannot be proven scientifically.
Evolution cannot be proven scientifically.


To observe and prove one or the other, a time machine is needed.  Only with a time machine can we go back and see the changes in species over time, or see if all the plants and animals were there together from the beginning.  Lacking that, looking at fossils is only a guessing game.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

Offline JBerton

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2013, 08:17:17 PM »
So...
If the creation story is just an allegorical story, I guess Raising Lazarus from the dead was just an allegorical story.
The parting of the red sea, the plagues on Egypt, the virgin birth, Jesus rising from the dead and walking on water are all allegorical since science has 'proved' them impossible. What a relief. Every story men have told me is just a story I no longer have to believe. Thank God he gave us agnostics so we would know God never meant for us to take his word as correct.
BTW, anyone here think they have a proof of evolution, I'll be happy to give you information where your "proof" has been discredited by evolutionary scientists themselves. Talk about believing in miracles! :Peace2:

And who do you think you are going to convince of truth using sarcasm?
Sarcasm stinks.
There is nothing unscriptural about believing some of the bible stories are allegorical.
Peace?  If you really want peace, dispense with the sarcasm!

Is that what God's love is about?
Truth must be distributed with love.
Got love? --> Got truth.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 12:51:39 AM by JBerton »
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Offline rrich7

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2014, 07:59:00 AM »
I knew God as child, my relationship with Him has been developing since then. I cant doubt it! When I see his creation & see how beautfil it is, how did that come from nothing!?

Someone had great care when they were making us & things around us!

I'm studying dental hygiene & have gotten to anatomy & physiology. Let me tell you all! The intricate working of each system, each part that has a purpose & how all these systems works together to make us up.. Every time I study I think, God, you're a Man of great imagination & wisdom. You knew just what to do! I almost come to tears!!

God spirit is among us, I believe its hard not to feel it! But maybe its difficult for those whose hearts have not yet been softened by God.
Love Never Fails : Yes My God Never Fails. The battle has been WON!

From Him and through Him and to Him are ALL things.

Offline 3in1

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2014, 06:50:47 PM »
Hello

Offline JBerton

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2014, 09:59:56 PM »
I knew God as child, my relationship with Him has been developing since then. I cant doubt it! When I see his creation & see how beautfil it is, how did that come from nothing!?

Someone had great care when they were making us & things around us!

I'm studying dental hygiene & have gotten to anatomy & physiology. Let me tell you all! The intricate working of each system, each part that has a purpose & how all these systems works together to make us up.. Every time I study I think, God, you're a Man of great imagination & wisdom. You knew just what to do! I almost come to tears!!

God spirit is among us, I believe its hard not to feel it! But maybe its difficult for those whose hearts have not yet been softened by God.


[Psa 139:14 KJV] I will praise thee; for I am fearfully [and] wonderfully made: marvellous [are] thy works; and [that] my soul knoweth right well.

I don't think it's difficult for anyone on this forum to believe that Yah created all things.  No one is questioning that.  The method by which he created all things is sometimes hotly debated.  Perhaps we should not use the word "evolution" (oops! I meant the "e-word") since it scares people.  :winkgrin:  I don't think "softness of heart" (or hardness of heart) is the problem. :Peace2:
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