Author Topic: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God  (Read 10906 times)

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DeeDee

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So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« on: November 13, 2008, 10:33:04 AM »
Hello to all viewing this. I am not posting this in judgement of anyone or their beliefs. I am simply posting this for those that feel they need something to help them believe - something to help them see the glorious splendour of our Lord and Maker.

Reasons to believe:
/ Proof:

1. The Holy Bible - just look at how many years The Bible has been around for. There are
countless Bible manuscripts. Even in this day and age they are still finding manuscripts. To those of you that claim its just a story book or something someone invented, ask yourself honestly how that can be? If someone invented the Old Testament and then someone else invented the New Testament (what I have seen claims of online) how would it be possible to have so many documents. There are thousands of Bible manuscripts that have been found all over the world. If it was just a story someone wrote then how could there possibly be so many manuscripts splattered all over the world? If you don't believe me do a little research online. If you do a little more research you will see that History and the Bible do in fact back each other up.

2. Incorruptable Bodies of The Saints - I am not Catholic and I am not familiar with many Catholic beliefs and ways. But you have to admit that there is something very mystical about the fact that the bodies of saints don't decay. Look up St. Bernadette of Lourdes.

3. Colors and Animals - For those that believe The Planet Earth just somehow "popped' into existance without the help of God, look in the mirror. Don't you think that you are a unique design? Look at your features and how clever the whole human form is. How could something like you just "evolve" out of nothing and with no help from a Supreme Being? Look at animals, there are so many species and all are so unique. Look at nature and all the colors and really think deeply to yourself.

4. Miracles - There are countless miracles that have happened throughout the ages. So many things that medical science can't explain. In fact there are tons of things that plain science can't explain on its own either.

There are many, many proofs of our Makers existance, and I will keep adding more to this thread when I have the time. For those of you who doubt another sure proof is prayer. Prayer for as long as it takes and you too will start to feel something amazing inside of you. Just try it. Prayer is a very powerful thing.

Remember as well that everyone on these boards are here for you. Feel free to join and ask questions about anything you would like to know concerning Christianity and of course Universal Salvation.

Bless you all
Dee

Offline Davo22

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2008, 01:43:47 AM »
For those of you who doubt another sure proof is prayer. Prayer for as long as it takes and you too will start to feel something amazing inside of you. Just try it. Prayer is a very powerful thing.

Bless you all
Dee

Yes, amen. Prayer is a very powerful, and can override whatever state you're in.

Those who seek the truth, who are pure in heart, will see God. We should never be surprised by people's rejections the to the existence of God, because it does hit people's deepest soul. They count the cost and it is too weighty. But arguments do go along way in tearing down the false picture, and for any interested there is a great overview of some of the arguments for the existence of God here: http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/18_god-existence/peter-kreeft_god-existence.mp3

Davo
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 08:30:30 AM by Davo22 »
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alihaymeg

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2008, 08:25:33 AM »
The existence of God cannot be proven scientifically. Nor does it need to be. It can, however be discussed from a philosophical standpoint. The ancient philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle accepted the existence of God based on philosophical reasoning.

Plato reasoned that the universe could not have been created out of nothing. (Ex Nihilo)

Aristotle held that a "prime mover" or "unmoved mover" must have set the universe in motion.

Parmenides said that "nothing can come from nothing".

The essence of these arguments is that, even traced back to its earliest form, the highly compressed single ball of matter that exploded to create the universe had to have come from somewhere. Where? Creationism gets too specific and literal for me. I prefer not to limit God in His ability to create the universe as He saw fit. Understanding it starts with understanding the purpose for it. (Our being here in the first place) That is a much deeper matter.

The problem is that creationists have tried to argue that it is a science. It is not a science.

Online WhiteWings

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2008, 08:33:46 AM »
The existence of God cannot be proven scientifically.

Mmm, but if you can find scientific facts that where unknown during writing the Bible it is some proof of a higher intelligence. No solid proof for a God because it also can be alien intelligence.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2008, 08:41:38 AM »
PROPHECIES FULFILLED BY JESUS CHRIST

 

The Old Testament, written over a 1,000 year period, contains over 300 references to the coming Messiah. All of these were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and they established a solid confirmation of His credentials as the Messiah; the Anointed One (King; Priest; Saint); Intercessor (to release or deliver; help; meet; seek; accompany).

 

Many of the prophecies concerning the messiah were totally beyond human control:

Birth: Place, time, manner of.

Death: Peoples reactions, piercing of side, burial

Resurrection: Where did His body go?

By using the modern science of probability in reference to just eight of these prophecies --- the chance that any man might have lived to fulfill all eight prophecies is one in one hundred trillion!

 

To illustrate this: If we take 100 trillion silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas, they would be two feet deep. Now we mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly --- all over the state. Now blindfold a man and let him travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick only one silver dollar. What chance would he have of picking the right one? The same chance that the prophets would have of writing just eight of these prophecies and having them all come true for any one man --- if they had written them without God's inspiration!

 

The chance of any one man fulfilling all of 48 prophecies is one in 10 to the 157 power. The electron is about as small an object as we can imagine. if we had a cubic inch of these electrons and tried to count them, it would take us (at 250 per minute) 19,000 time 19,000 time 19,000 years to count them. Now mark one of them, and thoroughly stir it into the whole mass. What chance does our blindfolded man have of finding the right electron? --- The same chance as one man of fulfilling 48 of the prophecies about Christ, without being the Son of God!
 

Jesus Christ fulfilled every prophecy written about the coming Messiah --- over three hundred of them! Would that have been possible had He not been the Son of God?

 

Here is a short listing of some of the hundreds of prophecies concerning Christ:

 

Linage Genesis 3:15; 9:26: 22:18; 26:4; 28:14; 49:10; 2 & Samual 7:12-16

Son of God Psalm 2:6-7

Virgin birth Isaiah 7:14

Birthplace Micah 5:2

Piercing of side Zechariah 12:10

Darkness Psalm 22:2

Vinegar Psalm 69:21

Mocking Psalm 22:6-8

Nakedness Psalm 22:17

Gambling for clothes Psalm 22:18

Unbroken bones Psalm 34:20

Burial Isaiah 53:9

Resurrection Psalm 16:10; Hosea 6:2; Psalm 30:3,9; Isaiah 53:10

Assention to right hand of God Psalm 110:1; 68:18; Proverbs 30:4; 24:3-10


Offline Davo22

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2008, 08:45:37 AM »
Check out C.S. Lewis' argument (currently known as "Argument from desire".)

"Most people if they really learn to look into their own hearts would know that they want and want acutely something that they cannot have in this world. There are all sorts of things in this world that offer to give it to you, but they never keep their promise. The longings which arise in us when we first fall in love, or first visit some foreign country, or first take up some subject that excites us, are longings which no marriage, no travel, no learning can ever fully satisfy. There is something we grasped at in that first moment of longing which fades away in the reality. Creatures are not born with desires, unless some satisfaction for those desires exists. A baby feels hunger, there is such a thing as food. A duck wants to swim, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire, there is such as sex. If I find in myself a desire, which nothing in this world can satisfy, then I was made for another world." --C.S. Lewis.

There is a world out there that many of us don't know about; I find all too many people stepping back from Apologetics and saying, "That's not for me" when it absolutely is, it is our hope.

http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/08_arguments-for-god/peter-kreeft_arguments-for-god.mp3
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 09:00:56 AM by Davo22 »
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Offline Davo22

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2008, 10:21:57 AM »
There is the music of Van Morrison, therefore there is a God.

:grin:
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alihaymeg

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 02:05:06 PM »
Quote
There is the music of Van Morrison, therefore there is a God.

That's a good point.


alihaymeg

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 02:07:25 PM »
Quote
No solid proof for a God because it also can be alien intelligence.

Technically God is extra terrestrial.

Online WhiteWings

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2008, 02:19:31 PM »
Yep.
But that term is usually used for lifeforms from our own universe (perhaps parallel universes too)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

alihaymeg

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 02:27:51 PM »
I hope they never find us if aliens do exist. We would probably be seen as an infestation.

Offline Davo22

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2008, 12:27:57 AM »
That's a good point.


Haha yep, that is the Argument from aesthetic experience.
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JeffA

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2009, 11:53:32 AM »
Hi all,

I have to be honest and say this thread could do with people taking some 101 classes in science and in particular evolution.  You have to offer more than 'Gee look at all this neat stuff in the universe - I have no idea how it all works so God must have done it'.

As a non-believer I have spent many years studying faiths (with emphasis on Christianity) and have at least read and studied all the books in the Bible many times over - I would at least expect the same kind of familiarity by the Christian community with the intricacies of opposing views to their own.

Here is a link to a Christian web site that explains why many scientific concepts that Christians generally disagree with (and don't understand too well) are in fact correct (but that doesn't stop him being a Christian).  Mostly it deals with evolution and why flood geology is just plain wrong http://home.entouch.net/dmd/

All the best,

Jeff - The Agnostic Universalist.

alihaymeg

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2009, 02:51:06 AM »
Agnostic Universalist eh?

That's interesting. I actually am in the process of trying to educate myself about other world religions. From what I can tell so far, they all point to the same place; God. They use different names for Him, but they all seem to have some level of truth revealed in them. It seems reasonable to me that God would have revealed Himself in some capacity to all peoples.

The only reason I say that the existence of God cannot be proven scientifically is that the principals that we use as proof are not universally accepted as truth. Some examples would be virgin birth, resurrection, etc. After having gone to several Atheist forums and having my brains beat out by those guys, I had to take a serious look at what I presumed to know. After some deliberation I realized that the essence of belief in God is faith. I cannot say anything that is provable beyond a shadow of doubt for every person on the planet. It is, and will always be a matter of faith.

JeffA

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2009, 11:06:58 AM »
That is a very sensible approach - I am not here to hassle people for their beliefs I just ask them to find out something about a subject before trying to refute it with arguments that just aren't up to the job.

alihaymeg

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2009, 11:42:07 AM »
Yep, nobody seems to understand that these are strictly matters of faith. There is no irrefutable proof.

ducktapehero

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 11:11:07 PM »
God wants us to have faith, if we could prove there's a God we wouldn't need faith. At least that's my opinion.

jesushandsarekindhands

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2009, 11:33:10 PM »
The fact there is anything at all proves theres a cause!
Anything made has a maker!

Sit and study an ant for an hour.  (Seriously, just do it).  Then wonder how it did all the things it just did with a brain so small you cant even see it.

And thats all im saying about this EVER because the debates are never ending on this subject!

ducktapehero

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2009, 09:17:18 PM »
Atheism, the peculiar belief that everything came out of nothing, for no reason whatsoever. :)

Banksy

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2009, 12:36:47 PM »
PROPHECIES FULFILLED BY JESUS CHRIST

 

The Old Testament, written over a 1,000 year period, contains over 300 references to the coming Messiah. All of these were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and they established a solid confirmation of His credentials as the Messiah; the Anointed One (King; Priest; Saint); Intercessor (to release or deliver; help; meet; seek; accompany).

 

Many of the prophecies concerning the messiah were totally beyond human control:

Birth: Place, time, manner of.

Death: Peoples reactions, piercing of side, burial

Resurrection: Where did His body go?

By using the modern science of probability in reference to just eight of these prophecies --- the chance that any man might have lived to fulfill all eight prophecies is one in one hundred trillion!

 

To illustrate this: If we take 100 trillion silver dollars and lay them on the face of Texas, they would be two feet deep. Now we mark one of these silver dollars and stir the whole mass thoroughly --- all over the state. Now blindfold a man and let him travel as far as he wishes, but he must pick only one silver dollar. What chance would he have of picking the right one? The same chance that the prophets would have of writing just eight of these prophecies and having them all come true for any one man --- if they had written them without God's inspiration!

 

The chance of any one man fulfilling all of 48 prophecies is one in 10 to the 157 power. The electron is about as small an object as we can imagine. if we had a cubic inch of these electrons and tried to count them, it would take us (at 250 per minute) 19,000 time 19,000 time 19,000 years to count them. Now mark one of them, and thoroughly stir it into the whole mass. What chance does our blindfolded man have of finding the right electron? --- The same chance as one man of fulfilling 48 of the prophecies about Christ, without being the Son of God!
 

Jesus Christ fulfilled every prophecy written about the coming Messiah --- over three hundred of them! Would that have been possible had He not been the Son of God?

 

Here is a short listing of some of the hundreds of prophecies concerning Christ:

 

Linage Genesis 3:15; 9:26: 22:18; 26:4; 28:14; 49:10; 2 & Samual 7:12-16

Son of God Psalm 2:6-7

Virgin birth Isaiah 7:14

Birthplace Micah 5:2

Piercing of side Zechariah 12:10

Darkness Psalm 22:2

Vinegar Psalm 69:21

Mocking Psalm 22:6-8

Nakedness Psalm 22:17

Gambling for clothes Psalm 22:18

Unbroken bones Psalm 34:20

Burial Isaiah 53:9

Resurrection Psalm 16:10; Hosea 6:2; Psalm 30:3,9; Isaiah 53:10

Assention to right hand of God Psalm 110:1; 68:18; Proverbs 30:4; 24:3-10

The Only problem with prophecy is it is only as good as you trust the person who wrote it. Its all very well to write after His death that He was born in Bethlehem to fulfill the prophecy, its another thing again to BELIEVE it...as obviously there is no evidence

Offline jabcat

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2009, 05:05:26 AM »
The Only problem with prophecy is it is only as good as you trust the person who wrote it. Its all very well to write after His death that He was born in Bethlehem to fulfill the prophecy, its another thing again to BELIEVE it...as obviously there is no evidence

You can trust the Holy Spirit.

"for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  2 Peter 1:21"

Gab

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2009, 07:37:06 AM »
You can trust the Holy Spirit.

"for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  2 Peter 1:21"

If someone doesn't believe that the New Testament is God-inspired and infallible cover-to-cover, then a quote from it isn't going to be very convincing, no?

Offline jabcat

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2009, 08:16:57 AM »
One can go there at their own peril.  I don't have to convince.  God will take care of that.  

Gab

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2009, 08:27:23 AM »
One can go there at their own peril.  I don't have to convince.  God will take care of that.  

Well, I'm just sayin', the purpose of this thread seems to be to convince others of the existence of God and other related things, so it seems to me that it would be good to have the arguments in it be sound in nature... no?  Otherwise we're just reassuring ourselves of what we already believed, which doesn't seem too productive.

Offline jabcat

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Re: So You Say Prove To Me There Is A God
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2009, 09:23:48 AM »
The scriptures are sound to me Gab.  If you, me, or anyone else doesn't see them as sound, and won't listen, then that quickly becomes between each of us and God.

It may be true, we probably can't "prove" God, at least to certain people.  He calls us to declare Him, but God reveals Himself.  He gives the faith to believe, or fits vessels of dishonor for destruction (Romans 9) which I believe He will restore.  All according to His plan and mercy ("...have seen the outcome of the Lord's dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful."  Js. 5:11).

So even though I did weigh in on this thread with Biblical proofs, it's true that if someone doesn't believe, then they will have to be purged and brought to belief  in God's timing (I'm purged on a regular basis for my shortcomings, unbelief, etc.).

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.  (Hebrews 11:1)