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Now I See it...

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Welcome. The question I'm most often asked concerning ultimate reconciliation is, "What if you're wrong?"
My answer: IF I am wrong, then the God of love I've known is actually a sadistic torturer of people he says he loves. Torturing an infinite period of time for a finite number of sins. If I'm wrong I would rather be tortured forever than worship a sadistic "God" that hasn't made it perfectly clear to everyone what he wants and expects from him.
Until the time shortly after the new testament the concept of hell was never mentioned in scripture at all. Except in pagan myths, in 4,000 years no one had ever heard of the concept of "hell" as preachers define it today.

Another strange thing, it seems in believers minds when they think of people being tortured in hell they think of this being done by "God." Ask them if they can picture Jesus doing this or even approving it? Isn't this concept of Jesus totally foreign to what is portrayed in the New Testament?

Paul L:

--- Quote from: lomarah on November 09, 2012, 01:42:16 PM ---Welcome to you! My hubby is still on the fence too, he's scared to death to fully embrace it (you know, in case he's wrong and he goes to hell for it. ;) ) But he's come a looong way and I am hoping that sooner than later he is going to fully realize our Fathers true heart and nature and be set free from that fear. I pray the same for you both as well. :)  Be blessed here!


--- End quote ---

All of us have been wrong about many things. It is puzzling to me that embracing a concept in which everybody is saved is tantamount to a mortal unforgivable sin, something so wrong in God's eyes that it cannot be forgiven on the day of judgement, but an act murder can be? But just let there be a mere "thought" that is "wrong" & somehow just that one particular "thought" is worse than murder?

But this is where eschatology has taken us, and we pay the price because of the myopic vision of the future it creates as well as how we think of our next door neighbor. I'd rather be living among atheists than in a neighborhood of people bantering over which of their religious practices is the "one true way", at least the atheists will not be mortally judging me for a "thought", after all they don't believe in God so why should they even care about that "thought".

Just look out over the theological landscape today, all those hundreds of millions of people who are convinced their religion is the "one true way", and who would justify taking the life of another at worst or shunning them at best for only that reason. Yet the mere thought that murderers can be saved while a "UR thought" cannot because it is tantamount to an "unforgivable sin"? It puzzles me.....

I'm agreeing with Ded2daworld, I would have more hope in God who loves all mankind, which he created, because we are all his children. I'm not really sure but I thought that only the Pharisees were the only ones who supposedly committed the "unforgivable sin" but they are also part of God's creation, as legalistically annoying as they were at the time... Can't wait for the day when it all makes sense.

Hey Lomara (or is it Iomara, still a very nice name :))

Something you said, about freedom, I bet it's the true understanding of God's infinite love that IS the freedom, there is no fear in love. I like how you put that :) We haven't really mentioned how we feel with family and friends, because, you know some are set in their beliefs and I care too much to get into an argument where we feel like we have to be right or something. It's really a personal thing but we are both assured, everything will work out. We still want to witness to others the love of Jesus, but I would recommend someone visit this website or a few others that were very helpful :) This one is still my favorite. It is so nice to meet you guys, I know I'm going to enjoy sharing my understandings of this paradigm shift my husband and I had, and I like hearing what everyone here has to say.

Eph 1;4 " According as he made choice of US,
in Him,
BEFORE the founding of a world,
 that WE might be Holy and blameless in His presence."

That was before sin came into the world.

Eph 2;4-7 " But God, being rich in mercy by reason of the great love with which He loved US,
although we WERE dead by our offences,
TOGETHER with the Christ,
BY FAVOUR you have been saved,
and seated US together in the heavenlies IN CHRIST;
 that He might point out in the on-coming ages,
the surpassing riches of His favour in graciousness upon Us IN Christ Jesus."

concerning the Pharisees and the jews;
Rom 10;3,4 " For not knowing God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to the righteousness of God;
for Christ is an end of law for righteousness to every one who believes."
Rom 11;25 " For I wish not you should be ignorant of this sacred secret, lest you become presumptuous,
that a hardening in part has befallen Israel until the full measure of the nations shall come in;
and so ALL Israel shall be saved."

All part of the master plan.


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