Author Topic: John 5:24 explained please for newbie  (Read 1239 times)

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Captain Caveman

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John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« on: December 09, 2010, 08:50:53 AM »
Hi. First post here. I've enjoyed and am thankful for the posts I've read over last few months. I am a 33 year old male.  I came across Christian Universalism/Universal Reconciliation (or whichever term you prefer) earlier this year.  Unlike many members on here,  I'm no scholar. I'm still trying to understand all the terms like judgement, salted, fire etc.. So hopefully this question makes sense.

Question:  Are we all judged?

John 5:24 says: 'Verily, verily, I say to you -- He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life." (Young's Literal Translation)

However, a couple of versus that seem to say otherwise are:

Romans 14:10 "And thou, why dost thou judge thy brother? or again, thou, why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand at the tribunal of the Christ;" (Young's Literal Translation)


2 Corinthians 5:10 "for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil;" (Young's Literal Translation)


Thanks,
CC


Offline jabcat

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 09:55:09 AM »
Welcome.   :bigGrin:

Maybe 2 different types of judgment?  One as to whether one is believing yet or not?  And if not, still needing the application of the Lake of Fire (which will be [spiritually] painful, i.e., hurt of the second death), to bring repentance?

The other for believers, having to do with works of righteousness and obedience as a son; related to rewards and position of service rather than "saved or lost"?  And therefor they won't be hurt by the second death?  "There is therfore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus".

There also seems to be a judgment of nations, the sheep and goats.  (could this have already occured?) :2c:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 01:26:25 PM »
 :welcome:

I think everyone is judged. I think not a single rule in the Bible makes sense without judgement. Very over simplified judging is checking if someone meets some standards. And those standards are (partly) explained in rules/laws. But what use would it be if God writes dow 100 rules and after that never uses them....
According to orthodox teaching His judgement basicly can have 2 outcomes. Eternal happiness in heaven or eternal suffering in hell.
Someone that sinned 100 times enters heaven and someone that sinner 101 times enters eternal hell.
Even the most corrupt judge on earth has more than 2 possible outcomes in his ruling. (free to go or execution)



Judged
kri,nw krino {kree'-no}
Meaning: 
to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
to approve, esteem, to prefer
to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
to determine, resolve, decree
to judge
to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
to rule, govern
to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
to contend together, of warriors and combatants
to dispute
in a forensic sense
to go to law, have suit at law

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »
Hi. First post here. I've enjoyed and am thankful for the posts I've read over last few months. I am a 33 year old male.  I came across Christian Universalism/Universal Reconciliation (or whichever term you prefer) earlier this year.  Unlike many members on here,  I'm no scholar. I'm still trying to understand all the terms like judgement, salted, fire etc.. So hopefully this question makes sense.

Question:  Are we all judged?

John 5:24 says: 'Verily, verily, I say to you -- He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life." (Young's Literal Translation)

However, a couple of versus that seem to say otherwise are:

Romans 14:10 "And thou, why dost thou judge thy brother? or again, thou, why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand at the tribunal of the Christ;" (Young's Literal Translation)


2 Corinthians 5:10 "for all of us it behoveth to be manifested before the tribunal of the Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body, in reference to the things that he did, whether good or evil;" (Young's Literal Translation)


Thanks,
CC


John 5:24 is talking about the spiritually dead.


Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10  are talking about the platform in which Christ provides for all.


Romans 14:10 is a warning that we all must be provided for by Christ and not to judge anothers standing with God because of that.   2 Corinthians 5:10 is an explanation of what the tribunal of Christ actually does through this word.

Quote
G2865  komizo  kom-id'-zo

from a primary komeo (to tend, i.e. take care of);

properly, to provide for, i.e. (by implication) to carry off (as if from harm;
genitive case obtain):--bring, receive
.







Captain Caveman

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2010, 07:53:40 AM »
Thanks for the welcome and responses. 

Ha ha yes White Wings Captain Cavemen was a legend.  I used to love that cartoon when I was a kid. 

Okay dokey time for some more reading - and probably questions too  :bigGrin:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2010, 09:10:34 AM »
Thanks for the Ha ha yes White Wings Captain Cavemen was a legend.  I used to love that cartoon when I was a kid. 
I felt a very strong urge to shout when I saw your nickname :director:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2010, 09:43:05 PM »
I guess I have a little bit different view on this and I could be wrong and usually am, according to WhiteWings  :laughing7:. Just kidding WhiteWings.

I think that we who are called and have accepted and are in Christ are already judged by what Christ did.  The rest will be judged by what they call THEIR WORKS. You know, most people think they have to DO SOMETHING in order to be saved and I think God will judge them by THESE WORKS.  This judgment will result in the lake of fire and the second death. They will have to die spiritually and be released from their works.

CHB

Offline shawn

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2010, 10:07:10 PM »
I guess I have a little bit different view on this and I could be wrong and usually am, according to WhiteWings  :laughing7:. Just kidding WhiteWings.

I think that we who are called and have accepted and are in Christ are already judged by what Christ did.  The rest will be judged by what they call THEIR WORKS. You know, most people think they have to DO SOMETHING in order to be saved and I think God will judge them by THESE WORKS.  This judgment will result in the lake of fire and the second death. They will have to die spiritually and be released from their works.

CHB

I think you are correct.  But, I have the opinion believers will still face a judgment.  While what you say is true...we are judged (concerning the second death) by the blood of Jesus, we are also held accountable for how we lived beyond that particular judgment.

1 Corinthians 10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 10:44:42 PM by shawn »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2010, 10:18:04 PM »
I guess I have a little bit different view on this and I could be wrong and usually am, according to WhiteWings  :laughing7:. Just kidding WhiteWings.
You could be wrong about that.
But not this time  :icon_jokercolor:

Quote
I think that we who are called and have accepted and are in Christ are already judged by what Christ did.  The rest will be judged by what they call THEIR WORKS. You know, most people think they have to DO SOMETHING in order to be saved and I think God will judge them by THESE WORKS.  This judgment will result in the lake of fire and the second death. They will have to die spiritually and be released from their works.
I think everyone will be judged by their works. Believer or none believer. If someone that really believes in Jesus was a menace to society then there are a lot of works to burnt for that person.
A non-believer that lived a good caring life very ciould have much less bad works to burn up.
None believers have a lot to learn spiritually. But believers are not spiritually perfect either.
So I think there must be two judgements and 100% of humanity is judged.
 :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2010, 10:48:09 PM »
I read another thought on the below passage that I believe has some serious merit.

1 Corinthians 10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.


The opinion stated that this works tested by fire is divine earthly judgment of believers that leads the sanctification process.  God will not leave us in our sin state but can send judgment our way to the work of purification.  In that light, we are judged by our works, deeds, actions and motives.  They will be exposed and burned out of us, preparing us for eternity with Christ.

Offline CHB

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 12:12:40 AM »
I guess I have a little bit different view on this and I could be wrong and usually am, according to WhiteWings  :laughing7:. Just kidding WhiteWings.
You could be wrong about that.
But not this time  :icon_jokercolor:

Quote
I think that we who are called and have accepted and are in Christ are already judged by what Christ did.  The rest will be judged by what they call THEIR WORKS. You know, most people think they have to DO SOMETHING in order to be saved and I think God will judge them by THESE WORKS.  This judgment will result in the lake of fire and the second death. They will have to die spiritually and be released from their works.
I think everyone will be judged by their works. Believer or none believer. If someone that really believes in Jesus was a menace to society then there are a lot of works to burnt for that person.
A non-believer that lived a good caring life very ciould have much less bad works to burn up.
None believers have a lot to learn spiritually. But believers are not spiritually perfect either.
So I think there must be two judgements and 100% of humanity is judged.
 :dontknow:

WhiteWings, You might not realize it but you actually agreed with me. I did say everyone would be judged but those who are dead in Christ have no works of their own, it is Christ that is working in them. These will be judged according to Christ works. Otherwords we are being judged now. These will not experience the second death, nor be hurt by it because they have already died to sin. The rest will be judged by their works and will experience the second death and lake of fire.

CHB

Offline CHB

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Re: John 5:24 explained please for newbie
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 04:01:53 PM »
Sorry I made a mistake by saying we will not experience the second death. What I was trying to say is, we all will not experience the lake of fire and second death AT THE SAME TIME. I believe we who have died to sin are experiencing the second death and lake of fire now.

After reading back over the post I think jabcat pretty much covered what I was trying to say.

CHB