Author Topic: New here and I hope you read my post.  (Read 1285 times)

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BigD

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New here and I hope you read my post.
« on: October 02, 2011, 03:06:04 AM »
Hey guys my name is BigD. I have been coming to tentmaker for some two years on and off. I am a pastor of a pentecostal church for about 35 years. I have been terrified of the doctrine of hell all my life. I remember crying to my mother when I was only 5 or 6 years old,she ask me what was wrong and I told her I didn't want to go to hell. The feeling and the fear never left me,actually it only got worse over the years. For though I went into ministry and had a lovely wife I held a secrect. I had a sexual addiction that has tormented me to this very day. Always feeling God hated me and never secure in his love. I am still fighting this sin disease. I win more than I lose but even when I have victory and then fall I feel like the worse sinner and go back to feeling God is going to send me to hell. I love God very much and want to serve him. I must confess the power of the hell doctrine runs deep in me and I hate the doctrine and the thoughts of anyone going to hell. If I could ever feel secure in God's love and commitment to me I think the battle with the addiction would be less,simply because I could trust Him more. I want to believe love wins in the end and everybody goes to heaven. I'm not looking for and excuse to continue in sin in any way. I'm looking for a God who I can truly trust no matter how many times I fall, that his for me and not against me. Sexual abuse started very young,about 5 or 6 and exposure to things a child should never have seen or went through. I seem stuck right out of the gate, I hate my sin and I want complete deliverance,I haven't given up and I need to know God loves me and doesn't give up on me either. When things are going right I love reaching out to the hurting and bruised world. I seem attracted to the misfits and outcast,probably because I feel like they do. The church here is full of every kind of addict in all stages of recovery. Gays and lesbians are welcome here,we had a transgender person for a while. My wife and I tried to show the love of God in every way and so did the rest of the church. No judging anybody is the way we try live in the church community. We never know what got a person to the place they are in life, and it's easy to condemn with limited knowledge and little understanding of a persons whole story. I hope to hear back from some of you. Thanks for reading this long post. I want no hell for no person. BigD

Offline jabcat

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2011, 03:50:40 AM »
So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 04:46:28 AM »
Welcome BigD.  I hope you find the truth here.  God is so loving, I pray that He frees you completely.  Where the spirit of the Lord is there is LiBERTY.

BigD

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2011, 05:50:54 AM »
Thanks Guys, I know that nothing is impossible for the Lord. I know that if will surrender my life completely God will do the job. I attend a 12 step group and I've seen many miricles in this addiction. Do you believe the Hell we have grown up believing in is the hell of fire and brimstone? I understand the aion or eon as a age but is all going to be redeemed? will the devil and fallen angels be redeemed? I have been using a lot of the UR scriptures in my messages lately and I've had no reaction to them in any negitive way. If everybody goes to heaven then the gospel is really good news. Good news for all.

Offline shawn

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2011, 09:00:42 AM »
BigD...I'm glad you are here.  I too am misfit and outcast.  Those are the people who I love in an extra special way, and who I serve through my profession.  I am a recovering alcoholic, drug addict and I know personally how difficult lust can be to deal with.  I also know that when I fall on my face, it's very easy for me to revert back into lawful thinking...and assuming I must earn my salvation.  So, some if not many of us here know how you feel.

As for UR...it has been a seed planted which continues to grow in my heart.  I don't claim to know God's judgments, but I do believe God has good things intended for all of mankind.  I do not believe He casts away forever.  I also know there is very strong scriptural support for it.  But, I must say it wasn't the scriptures that convinced me...even with all of the support.  It was a calm within me, that didn't come from me concerning this subject that convinced me.  It was a inner working, not a study and knowledge thing.

As for the make up of your church...I think that is awesome.  I believe Jesus would be associating with the same people you associate with...and that imo is what it's all about.

Welcome.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2011, 11:58:16 AM »
Do you believe the Hell we have grown up believing in is the hell of fire and brimstone?
Hell is the grave. LoF (Lake of Fire) is something different.
Jews never believed in LoF They always believed in restoring works of God. Even for Judas: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/members_lounge/judas_and_potters_field._9912.msg127138.html#msg127138
Early Church Fathers didn't believe in a hell of torture either.
The pagan Constantine forcefully introduced the classic concept of hell (and other Roman junk) into church doctrine.
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/index.html?page=The_prevailing_doctrine.htm
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/PrevailingUniversalism.pdf
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/index.html?page=The_Origin_and_History_of_the_Doctrine_of_Endless_Punishment_.htm
Quote
I understand the aion or eon as a age but is all going to be redeemed?
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/index.html?page=All_about_eons.htm
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/bible_verses_used_assert_not_all_will_be_saved/hebrews_927_after_death_comes_judgement_9660.0.html
Quote
will the devil and fallen angels be redeemed?
A better question would be: What/who are they?
Matt 25 [ACV]
41 Then he will also say to those at the left hand, Depart from me, ye accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his agents.

There are several verses stating God is all knowing, all powerfull, has perfect planning, doesn't change plans.
The above verse shows He planned LoF for the devil and his angels; but humans are cast into it.
Humm  :winkgrin:
Quote
I have been using a lot of the UR scriptures in my messages lately and I've had no reaction to them in any negitive way. If everybody goes to heaven then the gospel is really good news. Good news for all.
Most Christians believe the verses written down. They just think they mean something else...
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/index.html?page=Christian_double_talk.htm
My belief is that without understanding the culture and rituals of the ancient Jews the NT can't be fully understood.
Jesus was a Jew who preached to Jews who obviously understood everything from a Jewish concept.
Most of His audience were simple people. People who saw Jesus 1 or 2 hours in their life. Then He went on preaching elsewhere.
Today we keep fighting about each comma and letter but the people back then just heard a few words and a parable. The NT wasn't written yet. They couldn't reference to Revelation when reading Mark. That's not a real problem if the parable is easy to understand. According to scholars that's not the case. If a parable says "yes" studying 200 verses elsewhere in the Bible will show Jesus actually was teaching the opposite "no". That way of teaching sounds very similar to the serpents words in the Garden... :2c:
A prime example of that is LoF. It was a Jewish concept.
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/members_lounge/lake_fire_molten_sea_glass_laver_9507.msg123219.html#msg123219

Finally one of the verses from my signature. Think about it....
Rom 4 [AKJV]
5 But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 12:34:21 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2011, 12:02:56 PM »
Whoops, I forgot the most important part...

 :welcome: :reachout: BigD
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2011, 11:10:36 PM »
edited also :HeartThrob:
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 01:53:02 AM by redhotmagma »

Offline Molly

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2011, 01:39:59 AM »
True RHM, Just telling it like I see it.  I'll just stay off these threads and let you guys deal with it.

  I removed the post.

 :welcome:BigD

BigD

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2011, 03:26:33 AM »
I have battle for years with scripture that speaks of Jesus being savior of the world. The world? I have pastored so long and dealt with addicts alcoholics,people abused and hurt as children. They could never seem to get their lives together. Suicide by a guy who was one of the kindess people I have ever known. People raised in church who happened to be guy,just two nights ago,a man who is a double amputee and had battled with herion addiction for years died of a overdose. Yet this man really love the Lord and wanted to be better. If we are truthful,or if I am truthful,Jesus came for the sick and not those that felt they had it all together. If sickness is a qualifier for mercy and grace our world including me qualify. I would often wonder why is only the good church people seem to go to heaven at funerals? The people who seem to need most was always disqualified because they were still sinning. I read the other day that 2 out of every 4 men setting in church are struggling with porn. Yet you can't be honest in church when thats the very place you should be able to be honest. I'm a pastor and I know that if I go to heaven it's by His grace because I have not deserved it. If me being a human wants all people to be saved then how much more does the Father. The Father? That starts another series of thoughts. I'm a father,a earthly father,incomplete and sinful. Yet I would never! for any reason! destroy my daughter or hurt her in anyway. I may correct her or punish her but only with and through love. To bring better behavior. I can't stay angry because I love and enjoy her so much. Got a go I'll be back latter.

Offline Lindy

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2011, 12:16:50 PM »
I have battle for years with scripture that speaks of Jesus being savior of the world. The world? I have pastored so long and dealt with addicts alcoholics,people abused and hurt as children. They could never seem to get their lives together. Suicide by a guy who was one of the kindess people I have ever known. People raised in church who happened to be guy,just two nights ago,a man who is a double amputee and had battled with herion addiction for years died of a overdose. Yet this man really love the Lord and wanted to be better. If we are truthful,or if I am truthful,Jesus came for the sick and not those that felt they had it all together. If sickness is a qualifier for mercy and grace our world including me qualify. I would often wonder why is only the good church people seem to go to heaven at funerals? The people who seem to need most was always disqualified because they were still sinning. I read the other day that 2 out of every 4 men setting in church are struggling with porn. Yet you can't be honest in church when thats the very place you should be able to be honest. I'm a pastor and I know that if I go to heaven it's by His grace because I have not deserved it. If me being a human wants all people to be saved then how much more does the Father. The Father? That starts another series of thoughts. I'm a father,a earthly father,incomplete and sinful. Yet I would never! for any reason! destroy my daughter or hurt her in anyway. I may correct her or punish her but only with and through love. To bring better behavior. I can't stay angry because I love and enjoy her so much. Got a go I'll be back latter.

First, big hugs to you, and welcome from another newbie to the boards.

Second, check out every link WhiteWings shared, and really read the info with an open heart, God will open your eyes to see the depth and breadth and width of His love and mercy.

Third, I do not even go to church, precisely because of what you observed in your comment. I find information and fellowship here and elsewhere. We are all sinners, every last one of us, but looking good is more important to too many people than getting right with God. So many hurting people, so few real ministers to ease the pain with the loving truth of Jesus.

I think we've lost something really vital in the body of Christ. I think it is past time we relearned the old supposedly outdated practices of fasting and humbling ourselves before almighty God. I think we spend far too much time focusing on our worldly wants and creature comforts, and in doing so, we have taken our eyes off of what God wants us to do. We want to do it our way, but our way never, ever, ever works.

That is why I suspect we do not see the real outpouring of the Holy Spirit in power today as the early church did. The love has been buried beneath mountains of lies and deliberate misinterpretations, weighing people down with legalism that Christ did away with. It's all judgement and condemnation if you make a mistake, yet Jesus Himself did not condemn, He came to save us, and save us FULLY! Salvation isn't supposed to be just for your soul. It is supposed to be an ongoing work of healing of our bodies, of our minds, of our emotions, with the infilling of the Holy Spirit. It's not just about speaking in tongues, it is about power, God's power, infilling us, healing us, setting us FREE! For whom Christ sets free is FREE INDEED!

We haven't been set free because we have not let go and let God. We have not turned our eyes totally on Jesus, surrendered every area of our lives to Him, and given ourselves FULLY. The early christians sold everything they had and helped each other. They went house to house, breaking bread, praying, sharing the message of total love, and it completely revolutionized their society, with THOUSANDS of people coming to Christ EVERY DAY!

We don't NEED a huge church building that costs millions of dollars. It's an obscenity to me, as I look at these gaudy buildings, all I can see are empty stomachs and homeless children and lost souls in the surrounding areas that the members drive past to get to it and never even see.

I salute you in having a place where the rubber meets the road in dealing with humanity. While you are struggling with your own sin, it has at least kept your heart tender towards others who struggle, as well. I'll definitely be praying for you in seeing victory in your life. I suspect that you may be on the edge of a spiritual breakthrough that will completely revolutionize your life and the lives of everyone God brings your way.

Fast and pray, brother, get alone just as Jesus did, just as the disciples did, the apostles, the believers of old who put everything aside and fasted and prayed, and refused to stop until they touched the heavenlies. That is what this life is for, It is our testing ground, it is our trial arena in which we do battle with the flesh, putting our trust in God, overcoming with perseverance and faith, and when we finally touch the hem of His garment because we did not give up, we endured, THAT is when the healing comes, THAT is when the Holy Spirit will hit you like a freight train and blow away every last shred of addiction and sickness like so much chaff in the Holy breath of God!

God bless! didn't mean to preach, I'm not a preacher, but just had to put this out there for you, may God grant you the victory and strengthen you and use you mightily as a result!

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2011, 12:29:48 PM »
Third, I do not even go to church
This forum is a church.
A church isn't a building but a meeting of 2 or more people with the intention of praying or studying/discussing Biblical topics in a positive way.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them

I think meeting in an "electronic way" (forum, blog, all sorts of social media) is also included in that verse.

 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Lindy

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2011, 04:16:52 PM »
Third, I do not even go to church
This forum is a church.
A church isn't a building but a meeting of 2 or more people with the intention of praying or studying/discussing Biblical topics in a positive way.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them

I think meeting in an "electronic way" (forum, blog, all sorts of social media) is also included in that verse.

 :2c:

Sorry i wasn't clear in my meaning. I understand that, but was addressing his context. Apologies.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2011, 04:21:31 PM »
No need to apologize (for an opinion)
 :thumbsup:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2011, 09:46:07 PM »
Well, I'm not a newbie, but I am a Pentecostal pastor . . .on my way out, but currently, still hold the license.  And I can tell you that there are MANY parts of spiritual truth that God released on us that the church has twisted and perverted from truth of grace to attitudes of  condemnation.  It's what human nature is all about.  But I personally believe it's also what the message Paul was speaking about when he shared about having a thorn in his side that was such a frustration to his own life yet everytime he approached God about it . . .the answer was always the same.  Deliverance isn't always God's will believe it or not, but Grace is. 

What I tell people when it's pertaining to physical and emotional addictions is, lay it down.  Don't embrace it, but don't try to over come it with your own efforts either.  And don't beat yourself up when your flesh causes you to give in to it's constant pulling at you.  The more we think we have to fight the flesh, the more strength we give it.  The real truth is, you do have power over it, but it's not of your nature, it's of God's nature in you.  So my advise is, stop PAYING attention to the weakness and give the attention to Christ . . .pursue him, and the process of the pursuit will set you free from the other.

I'm not saying just accept the problem and live with it.  I'm saying now that you've acknowledged it's existence, ignore it's strength, and throw yourself into the sound that brought you here.  Because the reality is, it's not as strong as your mind has convinced you.  But because of many other religious issues being deep rooted in you from your upbringing . .which by thte way, we're all in the same boat on that one . . .but because of other adopted doctrines, religion has bound you and blinded you from what true freedom is all about.  Grace will truly set you free, but only when you stop trying to free yourself.  You've already proven all these years that you can't free yourself from this, so embrace the grace . . .is it or is it not sufficient?

Pursue Christ and the more you run toward him, the further away the noise of the flesh will be.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: New here and I hope you read my post.
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2011, 12:41:03 AM »
Well, I'm not a newbie, but I am a Pentecostal pastor . . .on my way out, but currently, still hold the license.  And I can tell you that there are MANY parts of spiritual truth that God released on us that the church has twisted and perverted from truth of grace to attitudes of  condemnation.  It's what human nature is all about.  But I personally believe it's also what the message Paul was speaking about when he shared about having a thorn in his side that was such a frustration to his own life yet everytime he approached God about it . . .the answer was always the same.  Deliverance isn't always God's will believe it or not, but Grace is. 

What I tell people when it's pertaining to physical and emotional addictions is, lay it down.  Don't embrace it, but don't try to over come it with your own efforts either.  And don't beat yourself up when your flesh causes you to give in to it's constant pulling at you.  The more we think we have to fight the flesh, the more strength we give it.  The real truth is, you do have power over it, but it's not of your nature, it's of God's nature in you.  So my advise is, stop PAYING attention to the weakness and give the attention to Christ . . .pursue him, and the process of the pursuit will set you free from the other.

I'm not saying just accept the problem and live with it.  I'm saying now that you've acknowledged it's existence, ignore it's strength, and throw yourself into the sound that brought you here.  Because the reality is, it's not as strong as your mind has convinced you.  But because of many other religious issues being deep rooted in you from your upbringing . .which by thte way, we're all in the same boat on that one . . .but because of other adopted doctrines, religion has bound you and blinded you from what true freedom is all about.  Grace will truly set you free, but only when you stop trying to free yourself.  You've already proven all these years that you can't free yourself from this, so embrace the grace . . .is it or is it not sufficient?

Pursue Christ and the more you run toward him, the further away the noise of the flesh will be.

 :thumbsup:  every time I think I have beat lust, I fall.  I think I've arrived, then well :BangHead: