Author Topic: Michelle  (Read 7549 times)

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Offline Cardinal

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #100 on: June 14, 2010, 07:10:55 AM »
 :cloud9: Please accept our apologies for any misunderstandings here. For a little background information, the mods were dealing with some spammers around that time, who were being banned one day, and logging back in the next day under a new name, and even doing the same thing several days running.

In general, asking the same strife engendering questions, or touching on topics that the owner of the board has requested that we mods deal with strictly and quickly so that we do not have the "food fights" of the past, lest the owner decide to shut the board down.

THIS is why you were viewed wrongly with suspicion as to your identity, and it in no way was anyone's desire to mistreat you in any way. Blessings to you....

"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #101 on: June 14, 2010, 08:08:50 AM »
 :thumbsup:

michelle7mickey

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #102 on: June 14, 2010, 04:12:19 PM »
I appreciate the response and accept the apoplogy. (Thanks for explaining what is meant by a "Troll" too.)
Just remember some people don't have a lot of time for forums and may not know how to use them...always leave room for grace here. Even if I was a troll it could have been said in better tones. That being said, it must be frustrating with the spammers and trying to know what's going on.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #103 on: June 14, 2010, 08:44:18 PM »
I think we in the world today living in AD don't realize that in the times of the old testament the Earth was an absolute cesspit of evil. Things such as child sacrifices were not a small thing hidden in some remote villages, but were an open thing and practiced by the nations. They were much closer to the spirit world in those days where sorcerers witchcraft, were reverenced and feared throughout the lands, the magicians even rivalled Gods miracles during the time of Moses, written in the bible.

Women and children in those days were property of men and were of little use. The nation of Israel was the greatest nation on the Earth and was known for its great wealth and power, its kings were renowned and its God was feared among the lands, many Kings such as the king of babylon confessed that the God of Israel was the one true God. But even though God was with Israel the people were still a stiff necked people, and so God gave them comandments such as stone the women caught in adultery. Jesus said the reason why Moses gave you that command was because of the hardness of your hearts. I interpret this to mean that stoning the women was Gods mercy upon the women, for the alternative would be to live with their hard hearted husbands, who because of their unfaithfullness, would probably treat them like a dog, they would also be set free to marry another wife if their wife is killed. But today because Gods spirit is upon the Earth who softens mens hearts, we no longer stone women who commit adultery, but instead are commanded to forgive them.

That's what I think

michelle7mickey

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #104 on: June 14, 2010, 09:23:36 PM »
As a woman I don't think there is any mercy in being stoned either!...I think that Jesus was referring to divorcing their wife...not murdering their wife. I know there is differnt interprataions on that, but the later makes more sense when considering Jesus' love for people. I have to look deeper because our translation of scripture needs to line up with what Christ always taught on love..and stoning a woman does not sound like love...regardless of a bad marriage! lol...just my 2 cents :)

As for the genicide, I think it's possible that the Jews may have thought God told them to kill all the babies, woman & children...because it was in their culture to think in such ways...God's own commandents said DO NOT KILL and that was OLD TESTAMENT not NEW. I think we need to give room for the fact that the Scriptures, (although mostly God-inspired) were still written by man...and we need to give room for that too...it does not have to be a threat to what we believe to look at that angle...it can strengthen our faith in a loving God if we let it. (Gary Amirault often says this same thing in his newsletter: "Bible Matters".) Sometimes as Christains I think we always feel we have to justify such things (like genicide) because we don't understand it...ET Christains do it all the time in regards to Hell...same thing. Personally I do not have a for sure conclusion on what I believe on the genicide topic...but I think as Christians we need to keep an open mind that we don't have all the answers and maybe JUST MAYBE  we are justiflying the sin of man that was recorded in the Bible...I think the fact that we never re-consider this is why we lose so many to atheism cause they look at these issues and take them very seriously...and Christians don't want to hear anything that puts a stumbling block in their belief systems so atheists have no one to really talk out thier issues with and usually get bitter against Christians...anyways, no hard feelings...just trying to share a different angle. hope you don't mind. :girlheart:

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #105 on: June 14, 2010, 09:30:35 PM »
Hi Michelle.  Paul said all scripture is inspired, which means "God-breathed".  Where does it say most scripture is inspired?  Thanks, James.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #106 on: June 14, 2010, 10:30:32 PM »
Hi Michelle.  Paul said all scripture is inspired, which means "God-breathed".  Where does it say most scripture is inspired?  Thanks, James.
My opinion....
The originals are 100% perfect.
But AFAIK the originals no longer exist. Copying was not flawless.
Then we have translations. "Lost in translation" => Doctrinal reason, misunderstandings, impossibility to accurately translate.
Scriputre is fully God inspired. The question is this; Is the Bible we own Scripture for each and every verse?
Or is it perfection (God inspired Scripture) mixed with man-made errors?

I think we especially are missing a lot in the OT due to (impossibility of) translation. One example: Names of people.
Generally I feel that Hebrew and Greek readers have more God inspiration in their Holy book.

I hope the above is within "No Bible bashing" forum guideline. If not... press teh big fat delete button  :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #107 on: June 14, 2010, 10:48:10 PM »
 :bigGrin: 

I think we'll let all stand as is right now, with the request that we refocus the thread on seeking understanding/insight/revelation into what was the purpose, intent, outcome, and future reconciliation of the events.  I.e., instead of were they, more so what do they mean and what can we spiritually glean from it now. 

"For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope."  Romans 15:4

Thanks, James.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #108 on: June 14, 2010, 11:12:34 PM »
 :cloud9: I realize this is something that comes up a lot, and I can only say from my point of view, I never focused on that aspect of the OT.

I think that is because from the beginning He had me focusing on the names of people, places and things in there, the days when things happened, ect.

So because I was receiving so much LIFE and revelation of the person and plans of Him from the OT, that there was no doubt that it was all divinely inspired as written. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

michelle7mickey

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #109 on: June 14, 2010, 11:18:45 PM »
thanks for giving a bit of understanding as to where i was coming from. It was not my intention for a harsh debate. i don't like that avenue at all! i'm happy the discussion was ended as i ddin;t feel to go on either...although thanks White Wing...that was more of what I was looking for.  :thumbsup:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #110 on: June 14, 2010, 11:21:12 PM »
I think that is because from the beginning He had me focusing on the names of people
And for people who don't know Hebrew it means they are missing a lot of depth.
Even the 'encoded' UR message.
That depth and all those little 'word games'  are lost in translation. God is not to blame for that. It's our peanut brains.
But people that don't speak Hebrew are missing that extra depth and info.
Unless ofcourse TMTM members. They have read about the true meaning of  names  :winkgrin:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Nathan

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #111 on: June 15, 2010, 01:36:46 AM »
On the surface, I'd agree WW, but at the same time, the Pharisees and Saducees . .and scribes are great examples of those who knew the original languages and had the most in-depth understanding of the culture and how everything was to fit together, yet they were also the same who were the hardest to recognize Christ when he was standing right in front of them in the flesh.

I have read Scriptures for years, as I'm sure most everyone can say this, I've read Scripture for years and not understood half of what I've read.  I think the Spiritual inspiration comes not from just what's been written, but I believe the Spirit inspires "as" it's READ. 

Maybe that's the part we've been reading wrong.  Rather than say men were inspired to write it . . . maybe it's a more accurate way to say men are inspired when reading it.  Not because of the stories in and of themselves, but because of the Spirit in us that uncovers . .  . reveals what's been written. 

If the inspiration was all about what was written, then the words themselves would reveal the mysteries on their own merit.  But it's actually the Spirit that is doing the revealing within us as we read what others wrote.  There was a lot of corruption in many of the writers . . .David was one who had a husband who was one of his strongest warriors that put his life on the line for David, only to have David sleep with his wife and then give him a letter that brought about his own death . . .yet David wrote much of Psalms, an inspirational hymn book.  So . . .is it the words on their own that inspire?  Or is it the spirit in us that breathes on those words, creating life to rise up in us as a result?

If it's the latter, then should we not always pursue the spiritual side of the literal letter?

Offline thinktank

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #112 on: June 15, 2010, 01:50:20 AM »
Michelle said

As a woman I don't think there is any mercy in being stoned either!

Your right Moses should have comanded them to use a bow and arrow :laughing7:
im taking the Mickey Michelle

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #113 on: June 15, 2010, 02:32:31 AM »
I don't think I disagree with the main thrust of your bottom line Nathan, if it's that the scriptures must be Spirit-revealed to us.  Otherwise, we don't "get it".  Howevah... :bigGrin: - what Paul said was, all scripture is God-breathed (inspired).  I take that to mean God specifically gave it to us, and further, that He will use it for His good purpose.  Either for us to be veiled for a time, having little-to-no clue and serving as that "vessel of dishonor", OR, when it's His time to reveal it to us, to bring it to life by His Spirit in our spirit.   :thumbsup:    Also, I believe it's alive and powerful (able to cut/divide) - even if we don't at the time consciously "get it", it is still working a work - judging, preparing, planting itself for later use and affect - because "My Word will not return unto Me void".

Opening Post - "Do not kill, kill them all"... :HeartThrob:
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 02:58:14 AM by jabcat »

Offline Pierac

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #114 on: June 15, 2010, 02:34:35 AM »
As a woman I don't think there is any mercy in being stoned either!...I think that Jesus was referring to divorcing their wife...not murdering their wife. I know there is differnt interprataions on that, but the later makes more sense when considering Jesus' love for people. I have to look deeper because our translation of scripture needs to line up with what Christ always taught on love..and stoning a woman does not sound like love...regardless of a bad marriage! lol...just my 2 cents :)

As for the genicide, I think it's possible that the Jews may have thought God told them to kill all the babies, woman & children...because it was in their culture to think in such ways...God's own commandents said DO NOT KILL and that was OLD TESTAMENT not NEW. I think we need to give room for the fact that the Scriptures, (although mostly God-inspired) were still written by man...and we need to give room for that too...it does not have to be a threat to what we believe to look at that angle...it can strengthen our faith in a loving God if we let it. (Gary Amirault often says this same thing in his newsletter: "Bible Matters".) Sometimes as Christains I think we always feel we have to justify such things (like genicide) because we don't understand it...ET Christains do it all the time in regards to Hell...same thing. Personally I do not have a for sure conclusion on what I believe on the genicide topic...but I think as Christians we need to keep an open mind that we don't have all the answers and maybe JUST MAYBE  we are justiflying the sin of man that was recorded in the Bible...I think the fact that we never re-consider this is why we lose so many to atheism cause they look at these issues and take them very seriously...and Christians don't want to hear anything that puts a stumbling block in their belief systems so atheists have no one to really talk out thier issues with and usually get bitter against Christians...anyways, no hard feelings...just trying to share a different angle. hope you don't mind. :girlheart:

Welcome to your own debate...

CLV version Ecc 3:10 I see the experience that Elohim (GOD) gives To the sons of humanity to humble them by it. 11 He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity in their heart So that the man may not find out His work, That which the One, Elohim (GOD), does from the beginning to the terminus."

What experience did he see ???

CLV Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim (GOD) has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Read your scripture Michelle... No less that six times... Paul tells you... All is of GOD!  Do you believe him? And also was Solomon a fool to make such comments in Ecc 1:13?

Personally, I think not!
Paul

« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 01:00:14 AM by Pierac »

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #115 on: June 15, 2010, 02:46:30 AM »
I'm temporarily locking this thread until we (mods) sort some things out.