Author Topic: Michelle  (Read 7443 times)

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Offline peacemaker

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2010, 04:28:08 AM »
It appears that some men see similarities between their thoughts and that of the SPIRIT, however, there are very dissimilar functions beneath which are unrelated to man's common descent into hell and genocide.

Survival mode is within the minds of men; death.

"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it."

peacemaker

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2010, 05:28:34 AM »
God ordered the death of those nations and children for one simple reason, survival. It was a military reason. God was teaching Israel's leaders and even commanded them, when defending from attack or when invading another nation not to allow anyone to live or when they grow up their descendents will seek revenge.

God taught Israel, as a nation, in order to survive that when no enimies, current or future are left behind there would not be residual attacks.

We need to remember that Israel was a real nation really living amongst hostile nations and they had an army and were attacked and attacked others. God, who gave them intsructions on all things, also gave intruction concearning thier war tactics.


So can we say that is how we should conduct military operations now? 

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2010, 06:25:59 AM »
Hello people...   Anyone notice michelle7mickey has made only 2 post?  Hello??? Can anyone say TROLL!

Jesus, are you guys this blind to whom your responding?

michelle7mickey has in no way earned what you have given her! Test the Spirit you read from her!  I do not judge, I only see, but why should you share your pearls to those whom would just trample them?

Paul  


Well, for the record, I certainly am not Michelle7Mickey, but feel that Paul has sort of implied that I might be.  So I just thought I'd set the record straight.

Anne
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 10:52:18 AM by jabcat »
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2010, 06:31:28 AM »


Well, then maybe God does created most of humanity to fry forever, after all, whos to question God.

He does as he pleases.   


I can see how one could reach that conclusion if they believe the scriptures literally from cover to cover.   
I have come to realize that there are what I would call UR FUNDAMENTALISTS.  They operate almost exactly the same
as your typical right-wing churchy fundamentalist.   I'm not one of them - that is for sure.

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2010, 06:34:50 AM »
It appears that some men see similarities between their thoughts and that of the SPIRIT, however, there are very dissimilar functions beneath which are unrelated to man's common descent into hell and genocide.

Survival mode is within the minds of men; death.

"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it."

peacemaker

Thank you, Peacemaker for choosing to clarify these things.   Survival of the fittest often boils down to survival of the one who loves his life in this world more than anything.  That, it appears is why there is so much war and bloodshed all around.   Jesus did not seek to save his life.  He is our pattern.

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2010, 06:43:32 AM »
 :cloud9: Well, then I guess I'm a UR fundamentalist because I believe the scriptures from cover to cover.

To me, aside from being obvious by virtue of the fact that Jesus Christ was the spiritual embodiment produced by the OT scriptures (ALL of them, not just the ones in Isaiah), additional "proof" lies in the fact that He is being produced IN US from those same scriptures every time revelation is unlocked from them.

Paul said to the Galatians that Christ needed to be formed in them. It is by the revelation of all the scriptures that He is formed in us as a heart of (celestial or spiritual) flesh. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2010, 06:49:57 AM »
:cloud9: Well, then I guess I'm a UR fundamentalist because I believe the scriptures from cover to cover.

To me, aside from being obvious by virtue of the fact that Jesus Christ was the spiritual embodiment produced by the OT scriptures (ALL of them, not just the ones in Isaiah), additional "proof" lies in the fact that He is being produced IN US from those same scriptures every time revelation is unlocked from them.

Paul said to the Galatians that Christ needed to be formed in them. It is by the revelation of all the scriptures that He is formed in us as a heart of (celestial or spiritual) flesh. Blessings.....

Paul (the apostle) said he was determined to know nothing among his brethren but CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED.  I wonder if we actually understand what Paul meant by that statement?   Cardinal - you can be a  biblical literalist and innerrantist if you choose, however, you should be careful about condemning those who are not because you very well might find in the end that you are wrong about some things.  Humility - we all need it, lest we be found esteeming ourselves as better than others.  
Anne
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 10:52:56 AM by jabcat »
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2010, 06:59:24 AM »
 :cloud9: Yes I do know what Paul meant by that statement, which again is by revelation of the Spirit only. And I haven't said anything condemning anyone.

I have no idea who Fred Phelps is......which is probably a good thing...... :laughing7: :dontknow:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2010, 07:09:36 AM »
:cloud9: Yes I do know what Paul meant by that statement, which again is by revelation of the Spirit only. And I haven't said anything condemning anyone.

I have no idea who Fred Phelps is......which is probably a good thing...... :laughing7: :dontknow:

Gosh, I thought everyone (at least those in the modern Christian world) knew who Fred Phelps is.  He's in the news a lot.
He is very opinionated and very certain about his views of "Who God is and What God thinks and does".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2010, 07:18:42 AM »


Well, then maybe God does created most of humanity to fry forever, after all, whos to question God.

He does as he pleases.   


I can see how one could reach that conclusion if they believe the scriptures literally from cover to cover.   
I have come to realize that there are what I would call UR FUNDAMENTALISTS.  They operate almost exactly the same
as your typical right-wing churchy fundamentalist.   I'm not one of them - that is for sure.

Anne



I was being a bit sarcastic because you can use that argument for anything. Gods character is in scripture and we can determine what he will and won't do. Some seem to get offended that someone dares to say they can learn what God won't do.  I know that the scriptures ARE true.  Disagreeing with someone concerning what scripture is telling us has nothing to do with believing the scriptures are not sound.

If I believe the whole bible is a metaphor I am asserting that religion is not necessarily correct, nothing more.


Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2010, 07:22:16 AM »
Thanks Paul, good clarification.   :thumbsup:  (Who, you?  Sarcastic?  :bigGrin:)

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2010, 07:30:16 AM »
Thanks Paul, good clarification.   :thumbsup:  (Who, you?  Sarcastic?  :bigGrin:)


LOL, never.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2010, 07:33:53 AM »
:cloud9: Yes I do know what Paul meant by that statement, which again is by revelation of the Spirit only. And I haven't said anything condemning anyone.

I have no idea who Fred Phelps is......which is probably a good thing...... :laughing7: :dontknow:

Gosh, I thought everyone (at least those in the modern Christian world) knew who Fred Phelps is.  He's in the news a lot.
He is very opinionated and very certain about his views of "Who God is and What God thinks and does".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps


 :cloud9: Nope......I'm not a watcher of Christendom and not a lot of news unless it's something He draws my attention to for intercession. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2010, 07:55:02 AM »
I believe even every letter is inspired and should be read. When it comes to Holy Scripture, God preserving His Word refers the actual words He choose to make His revelation known. These were in Greek and Hebrew. For years The Canadian Bible Society published something called The Numerical New Testament by (I thinK) Ivan Panin. Because the letters of Greek, and Hebrew as well, are numbers as well as letters, without knowing the language(s) with a chart and an inter-linear you can examine the mathmatical patterning that Holy Scripture contains. Through this means what is thought to be authoritatively "THE" text was arrived at and published. For a good translation that gives the evidence of the original languages, the Concordant Literal Translation as well has all the words of the "Textus Receptis" and the three oldest Uncials. The difference between all the manuscript evidence has been said to be, other than word order, only about fifty instances and no important doctrine hangs or falls on any of them.

I liken it to about a meter square of cloth from the bedchamber of the king at Versailles of gold with jewels, rubies and pearls entwined that I saw on display at DKOTA (Design Center of the Americas) in Ft Lauderdale, FL. While insured for $30,000 Dollars, the curator that accompanied it said it was actually priceless. They were refurbishing the bedroom, which is how it came to be so far from home.  There were several things wrong with what I saw. Some jewels were missing, for instance. Like the cloth of a cloak of the king is how I see Scripture. There is an obvious testimony to Divine perfections, inerrancy, though frayed a bit here or there, maybe a jewel missing.  But the obvious cannot be hidden for those who have the will to use their eyes to see.

As far as "fundamentalism" is concerned, those of that stripe wouldn't ever have me unless it was their reward for dancing the dance of seven veils. That means I think they'd accept my head on a platter.

Acts 24:14-16 (Concordant Literal Translation)...
14 "Yet I am avowing this to you, that, according to the way which they are terming a sect, thus am I offering divine service to the hereditary God, believing all that is written, according to the law and in the prophets,
15 having an expectation in God, which these themselves also are anticipating, that there shall be a resurrection which is impending for both the just and the unjust.
16 "In this, I am exerting myself also, to have a conscience which is no stumbling block toward God and men, continually.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2010, 08:00:11 AM »
 :cloud9: Amen  :thumbsup: The letters are literally symbols of His breath.......just as He spoke everything into existance. Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2010, 11:04:10 AM »
I've cleaned this thread up some, including some of the mod posts - including my own.

Any further scriptural insights that may help our understanding?

Offline Molly

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2010, 04:34:55 PM »
Quote from: Cardinal
It is by the revelation of all the scriptures that He is formed in us as a heart of (celestial or spiritual) flesh.

That's a keeper.  :bigGrin:

Offline Nathan

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2010, 04:46:31 PM »
just catching up on this thread.  Apparently I wasn't around to see what was written before it needed cleaned up . . .and probably just as well. :wink2:

But I did want to reach back a bit and address the "fundamentalist" conversations just a bit.  I'm not sure everyone was seeing the word in the same light.  For me, I used to be a fundamentalist if you regard it to be one that rigidly adheres to what is written only and anything metaphoric or spiritually discerned was coldly frowned upon.  So for me, a fundamentalist was more than just believing everything was literal, it was believing everything was ONLY to be taken literal.  

But then I found that walking in the spirit is more than just enforcing what's literally written.  So if I were to pursue that direction, I had to let go of my "fundamentalist" position.  I still believe the entire Bible has a literal application to it, but for me, that's just the first step of a much deeper reality.  There's the moral lessons we learn from those literal experiences, and even more importantly is the spiritual revelation that lies beneath the surface of the moral venue as well.

This actually reminds me of  . .who was it . . .Achan?  The guy who hid silver and gold in his tent . . .the silver was buried at one level, but then deeper down below that was the gold.  Granted, in that story, it implicated the silver and gold had the stamp of pagans, but there's always a reverse side to every story, you just have to look for it is all.  Kind of like a silver lining behind every cloud sort of thing.

Offline CHB

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2010, 08:00:31 PM »

I was kind of like you Nathan, I was more of a literal than a spiritual reader of the Bible. I saw everything literal. It has only been a few years that I have come to see that if we take the Bible literally we can learn more spiritual truths from it if we think spiritually. As Paul said, "set your mind on things above and not things here below". I think both literal and spiritual lessons are to be learned from the Bible and I believe all of the things that are written literally did happen.  I believe every word that was originally written by the prophets and apostles were inspired by God Himself, for our learning and admonition.


About why Israel killed whole nations including children:

God chose Israel to be an example for the whole world, to show forth his power and glory and the fact that he existed. To Israel he showed his love and mercy, to the nations his power and glory. (Ex. 14:18) And the Egyptians shall know that I am the Lord, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh. (Ex. 15:2-13)

(Ex. 23:22) But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an ENEMY UNTO THINE ENEMIES, and an ADVERSARY UNTO THINE ADVERSARIES. (Ex. 23:27) I will send MY FEAR before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come.

(Ex. 34:10) And he said, Behold I make a covenant: Before all thy people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the Lord: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

(Lev. 20: 23) And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I CAST OUT BEFORE YOU: FOR THEY COMMITTED ALL THESE THINGS, AND THEREFORE i ABHORRED THEM.

CHB     
 

Offline Dallas

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2010, 01:49:33 AM »
Quote
So can we say that is how we should conduct military operations now?

That's up to the politicians, as far as God is concearned, the goevrnment has changed. Israel isn't the chosen nation, for all are the chosen nation, if one were to rise up against another then it would be Kingdom of God vs. Kingdom of God.

Psalm 2: 6 "But as for Me, I have installed My King
         Upon Zion, My holy mountain."
      7"I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
         He said to Me, 'You are My Son,
         Today I have begotten You.
      8'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance,
         And the very ends of the earth as Your possession."

and

Revelation 21:1 "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

   2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

   3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them

All of the nations are God's, therefore He isn't about to genocide what is His. For all have been washed in the blood and all have been reconcilled. The nations before weren't.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2010, 02:21:36 AM »
Excellent input today everyone.  Thanks!   :thumbsup:

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2010, 03:59:58 AM »
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood

 Gods character is in scripture and we can determine what he will and won't do. Some seem to get offended that someone dares to say they can learn what God won't do.  I know that the scriptures ARE true.  Disagreeing with someone concerning what scripture is telling us has nothing to do with believing the scriptures are not sound.

If I believe the whole bible is a metaphor I am asserting that religion is not necessarily correct, nothing more.


Well said - I completely agree with you on these points.

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2010, 04:14:58 AM »
Quote
So can we say that is how we should conduct military operations now?

That's up to the politicians, as far as God is concearned, the goevrnment has changed. Israel isn't the chosen nation, for all are the chosen nation, if one were to rise up against another then it would be Kingdom of God vs. Kingdom of God.

Psalm 2: 6 "But as for Me, I have installed My King
         Upon Zion, My holy mountain."
      7"I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
         He said to Me, 'You are My Son,
         Today I have begotten You.
      8'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance,
         And the very ends of the earth as Your possession."

and

Revelation 21:1 "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

   2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

   3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them

All of the nations are God's, therefore He isn't about to genocide what is His. For all have been washed in the blood and all have been reconcilled. The nations before weren't.


So Hitler was leading a nation of God?

Offline Dallas

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2010, 05:00:44 AM »
Quote
So Hitler was leading a nation of God?

No, Hitler lived within the nation of God, he lead a group of people known as Germans, who also lived within the nation of God.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2010, 06:03:15 AM »
Quote
So Hitler was leading a nation of God?

No, Hitler lived within the nation of God, he lead a group of people known as Germans, who also lived within the nation of God.

What was the nation of God then?