Author Topic: Michelle  (Read 6280 times)

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Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2010, 12:28:08 AM »

I believe everything in the old testament literally happened as stated below in verse 11.

1 Corinthians 10:11
10 Nor yet be murmuring even as some of them murmur, and perished by the exterminator.
11 Now all this befalls them typically. Yet it was written for our admonition, to whom the consummations of the eons have attained.
12 So that, let him who is supposing he stands beware that he should not be falling.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2010, 12:43:08 AM »
Though there may be some symbolism and interpretational things involved (a day/a thousand years, whole world/inhabited world, etc.) I believe it still literally happened as well, with spiritual applications (learning/admonition) for us.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2010, 12:59:44 AM »
I have no doubt that Armies went into lands and killed citizens, raped women, stabbed babies through the head with their swords.  This doesn't mean that God honored baby murder by human hands because they wrote that God was on their side.  


We were literally created too, because we are here, we at least got here somehow.  I am sure humans commit incest too.  That doesn't mean  I have to rationalize that incest was a God honored thing that advanced the human race.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 01:04:31 AM by Paul Hazelwood »

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2010, 01:01:34 AM »

People scoff in more modern times when a human being says God commanded them to do what others call something evil.  But why scoff?  Perhaps it is only someone acting as they have been taught their father behaves.


Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2010, 01:06:10 AM »

 :cloud9: I personally look at the same way. He's God and He can do whatever He wants. This realm is not our home to begin with.
My  :2c:........Blessings......


I know many people who say that.  Hyper calvinists are among them.   Universalism is indeed the attempt to understand what God will or won't do.   In our hearts we know that it is possible to know that is why when we break the chains of fear, we let it out.



Exactly, Paul.   At least some believers in UR reached that revelation because they realized there was something morally wrong with God commanding one thing and then purportedly doing whatever evil He pleases.  It is RIGHT to ask ourselves WHAT IS GOD LIKE.  It is disappointing to me when UR believers begin to act like it is not important to them what God's character is like.

Anne

Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2010, 01:08:58 AM »
I have no doubt that Armies went into lands and killed citizens, raped women, stabbed babies through the head with their swords.  This doesn't mean that God honored baby murder by human hands because they wrote that God was on their side.  


We were literally created too, because we are here, we at least got here somehow.  I am sure humans commit incest too.  That doesn't mean  I have to rationalize that incest was a God honored thing that advanced the human race.


Exactly, again, Paul.  I am really tired of the implication that just because there is so much evil going on in the world that God must want it that way.  I reject that thoroughly!!!
It is the slippery slope of religion and fear that promotes such dogma.

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2010, 01:10:37 AM »

People scoff in more modern times when a human being says God commanded them to do what others call something evil.  But why scoff?  Perhaps it is only someone acting as they have been taught their father behaves.



Exactly!   Let us reason together!  My God is not UNREASONABLE.  Sheesh!

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2010, 01:11:47 AM »
I think a lot of it has to do with the perversions of carnality itself.  This is the realm of death and decay.  When you feed into it, it will lead to unspeakable and twisted tortures and death of the very beings God cherished as his own creations.  Of course God isn't pleased but it's the course we've been put on since Adam.  Talk about generational curses.  But the authority really doesn't lie in the observing of perverisions of men.  The power comes when we are surrounded by our own perversions and yet as we yield to the Father, we can become illuminators of his light and love toward others who are also bound by secret perversions and darknesses of their own.  



Exactly, Paul.   At least some believers in UR reached that revelation because they realized there was something morally wrong with God commanding one thing and then purportedly doing whatever evil He pleases.  It is RIGHT to ask ourselves WHAT IS GOD LIKE.  It is disappointing to me when UR believers begin to act like it is not important to them what God's character is like.

Anne


[/quote]

I'm not sure I would say it's not important so much as it's hard to comprehend.  The thing about revelation is that it's not an area logic plays much of a role at.  It appears to us as we mature in Christ at different intervals in our lives and as such, when we come to areas where we haven't seen the reality of it yet, it's not that we don't care, but we know that as we advance in the kingdom, God will reveal it eventually.  Until then, we just wait on the back-burner with things that we can't explain for now.

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2010, 01:14:29 AM »
Though there may be some symbolism and interpretational things involved (a day/a thousand years, whole world/inhabited world, etc.) I believe it still literally happened as well, with spiritual applications (learning/admonition) for us.

And what of those who don't believe certain things literally happened?  Or what of those who believe that if certain things literally happened, that it is because they were not hearing from the true God?   I already know your answer.  But the fact is, some people who are Christians do hold this other view.   And neither can be proved right or wrong.  But we can REASON about such things without fear.

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2010, 01:24:54 AM »
 :cloud9: But I think it can and has been proved to be literal, as the Bible codes prove the Torah is letter perfect, as the odds are in the millions to one that the codes found could exist. And if letter perfect, then a divine writer was at work thru men used of the Holy Spirit. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2010, 01:31:59 AM »

I like the way The Amplified footnotes this verse.


Isaiah 45:7;
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] [a]evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.

Footnotes:
a. Isaiah 45:7 Moral evil proceeds from the will of men, but physical evil proceeds from the will of God.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2010, 01:37:06 AM »

Amos 3:6;
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Lamentations 3:38;
Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2010, 01:49:48 AM »


Well, then maybe God does created most of humanity to fry forever, after all, whos to question God.

He does as he pleases.   

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2010, 02:05:33 AM »

The beautiful Psalm 13

    1 HOW LONG will You forget me, O Lord? Forever? How long will You hide Your face from me?

    2 How long must I lay up cares within me and have sorrow in my heart day after day? How long shall my enemy exalt himself over me?

    3 Consider and answer me, O Lord my God; lighten the eyes [of my faith to behold Your face in the pitchlike darkness], lest I sleep the sleep of death,

    4 Lest my enemy say, I have prevailed over him, and those that trouble me rejoice when I am shaken.

    5 But I have trusted, leaned on, and been confident in Your mercy and loving-kindness; my heart shall rejoice and be in high spirits in Your salvation.

    6 I will sing to the Lord, because He has dealt bountifully with me.

   

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2010, 02:09:08 AM »

Matthew 7

7 "Request and it shall be given you. Seek and you shall find. Knock and it shall be opened to you.
8 For everyone who is requesting is obtaining, and who is seeking is finding, and to him who is knocking it shall be opened.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2010, 02:18:27 AM »
Quote
Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;




Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2010, 02:29:36 AM »
a divine writer was at work thru men used of the Holy Spirit. My  :2c: Blessings....

Amen Card. 
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2010, 02:35:38 AM »


I've been enjoying the discussion, if michelle wants to join in she is welcome.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2010, 02:39:11 AM »
Though there may be some symbolism and interpretational things involved (a day/a thousand years, whole world/inhabited world, etc.) I believe it still literally happened as well, with spiritual applications (learning/admonition) for us.

And what of those who don't believe certain things literally happened?  Or what of those who believe that if certain things literally happened, that it is because they were not hearing from the true God?   I already know your answer.
Anne


OK. 

-----------------------------

I think I'm out of this discussion now and will be moderating only.  It looks as if it may be necessary.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 02:43:46 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Pierac

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2010, 02:48:21 AM »
Do the rules prevent a mod from making insulting comments to the posters? 

It's not a insult if someone comes on a site questioning your beliefs then leaves offering no response! Creating conflict among seekers! Your were set up Paul!

I'm suprised at your level of post you did not see this!

Paul

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2010, 02:55:19 AM »
I see your point Paul/Pierac, but I was personally just looking at it as much of a discussion amongst other members as much as "responding" to Michelle - whether she came back around or not.  I have been watching her profile, and she was only on about 20 minutes and hasn't been back.   Seems a few folks were interested in the topic, but I agree, it is one that OBVIOUSLY can bring dissension.  :dontknow:  
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Pierac

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2010, 03:09:56 AM »
I see your point Paul/Pierac, but I was personally just looking at it as much of a discussion amongst other members as much as "responding" to Michelle - whether she came back around or not.  I have been watching her profile, and she was only on about 20 minutes and hasn't been back.   Seems a few folks were interested in the topic, but I agree, it is one that OBVIOUSLY can bring dissension.  :dontknow:  

Then we shall unlock the topic!

But we should all understanding we are seeking truth, not responding to Michelle or some Troll if that be what she is!

Topic is now unlocked! Enjoy the topic! 

Paul

Offline jabcat

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2010, 03:16:27 AM »
I'm OK either way, because I do want it be able to be discussed without taking petty shots at people or subtle suggestions that the scriptures themselves are not to be trusted - taking into account translation, interpretation, etc.

It's likely one of those topics that will be need to be moderated closely.  Thanks Paul.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 03:38:29 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2010, 03:17:39 AM »
I have no doubt that Armies went into lands and killed citizens, raped women, stabbed babies through the head with their swords.  This doesn't mean that God honored baby murder by human hands because they wrote that God was on their side.  

We were literally created too, because we are here, we at least got here somehow.  I am sure humans commit incest too.  That doesn't mean  I have to rationalize that incest was a God honored thing that advanced the human race.


Exactly, again, Paul.  I am really tired of the implication that just because there is so much evil going on in the world that God must want it that way.  I reject that thoroughly!!!
It is the slippery slope of religion and fear that promotes such dogma.



"Two choices, one word; Syncretism!"

Corrupted thoughts, as in devilish For I desire mercy, not sacrifice.

When you eat of the tree of man's knowledge, you get both; good and evil.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways..."

"I have spread out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in the way which is not good..."


peacemaker


Offline Dallas

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Re: Michelle
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2010, 03:29:20 AM »
God ordered the death of those nations and children for one simple reason, survival. It was a military reason. God was teaching Israel's leaders and even commanded them, when defending from attack or when invading another nation not to allow anyone to live or when they grow up their descendents will seek revenge.

God taught Israel, as a nation, in order to survive that when no enimies, current or future are left behind there would not be residual attacks.

We need to remember that Israel was a real nation really living amongst hostile nations and they had an army and were attacked and attacked others. God, who gave them intsructions on all things, also gave intruction concearning thier war tactics.