John 17:20-21 The key to lifting Jesus up

[alihaymeg]

John 17:20-21: "20 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be ONE, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us SO THE WORLD WILL BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE SENT ME."

Jesus was pointing out something that was all important to him. It is something that He stressed here in a prayer to the Father. His wish for us was that we remain as one. He also said that if He be lifted up, He would draw all men unto him. How do we lift him up? We can only achieve that by uniting under a unified purpose. The body is hopelessly fragmented as of now. Is it possible to fix it? We must find a way! Jesus said that it was the way that the world would know that the Father had sent Him. What could be more important? It is essential that we put aside our differences and prove ourselves worthy of the message which He entrusted to us. Stop fighting! Stop demanding that everyone think as you do! We are each members of the body. We are not all eyes or ears or brains. Each plays his/her part.

We must learn to love unconditionally as God loves us. Only then can we put aside our own selfish motivations and become united as we were intended to be. Only the Holy Spirit is able to lead and guide us into all truth. First we must make sure we are listening to the right voice. Not the voice of tradition. Not the voice of indoctrination. How will you know Him? There is no darkness in Him at all. Never any encouragement  to argue or coerce. His intentions are always pure. Listen only to that voice and speak the truth in love.

I look forward to conversing with all of you. May God bless you and keep you.

[martincisneros]

We must learn to love unconditionally as God loves us. Only then can we put aside our own selfish motivations and become united as we were intended to be. Only the Holy Spirit is able to lead and guide us into all truth. First we must make sure we are listening to the right voice. Not the voice of tradition. Not the voice of indoctrination. How will you know Him? There is no darkness in Him at all. Never any encouragement  to argue or coerce. His intentions are always pure. Listen only to that voice and speak the truth in love.

Amen!  I've backed out of many conversations around here, not because I couldn't refute, which would be the easiest thing in the world for me, for my flesh, for the research, Christian life, and sanctification that I've had, etc, but because a true Son of the Kingdom has nothing to prove with the turning of rocks into stone ground bread, by flying from the top of the Sears Tower, etc.  If the doctrine is true, then it'll absolutely always exemplify greater works than the Son of God did, according to John 14:12, as I've always found to be the case in my life and in the lives of all Sons of the Kingdom.

Welcome to Tentmaker.  Thank you so very much for joining!

[alihaymeg]

Thank you for your reply.

I come with a humble spirit ready to learn from my brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm seeking God's will in the matter of fellowship with other Christians. My heart tells me that I have need of this, but I find it difficult to feel comfortable in a traditional church setting. I want to learn and grow, but I find most of these church bodies to still be suckling at the teat rather than feasting on the flesh of the word. Not to be judgmental, but I need more than that. Any guidance in this matter would be much appreciated. How have likeminded others solved this problem?

[HappyBoy!]

Welcome to Tentmaker!

[YoungYuni]

Is not Jesus already lifted up with a Name already greater than any other Name? Would it not be, the key to peace and understanding would be to believe that He is already risen?

Do not get me wrong, I understand and agree with the Love.

I may have misunderstood the advise; however, I do not understand what you think fighting among us means. Do you mean disagreements? Those are inevitable.

Are we not to test the spirits because false prophets have gone out? Are we not to refute, rebuke, correct, preach in season and out? Would that not require a level of confidence and boldness, which some may find offensive? Are we not followers of Christ, who suffered as much or more for His confidence and boldness, even sharing with others how to live their life to the fullest?

Perhaps it is culture, but my French background, we argue and yell all the time with each other in a family context. A stranger would could walk by and wonder how a family could hate each other so much. Though that is not what is happening. We argue and yell all the time because we are a passionate people, and have a freedom I see so many lack but that does not mean we abandon each other because of disagreement, or hate each other for it. In fact, as much as we passionately disagree and raise our voices high, we are just as or more passionate about each other and how much we love.

I have been reading a lot, so I apologize if I did not speak up earlier. I was so confused on where to start and now I am not confused on how the forum works. I am confused by some reasonings people have concerning how and what love works and means. So forgive me should I step on your toes, I find some sorts of love very artificial and not anchored in what actually happens in our life.

 

[alihaymeg]

It oppologize if that post sounded strange to you. Our world view may be a little different because of the distance between us and our cultures. I was refering to a specific dissention between American churches. There is a refusal to accept one another and work together. I know what you are saying. My family is very vocal and argumentative as well. It can be very fun to be boisterous. That is not what I'm refering to. An example would be when one Church organization refuses to accept another because of a few differences in doctrinal beliefs. There is often even hatred between them. Even though they both claim to be Christian. Jesus said that, if He be lifted up, He would draw all people unto Himself. That has obviously not happened as of yet.

[rosered]

Jesus said that, if He be lifted up, He would draw all people unto Himself. That has obviously not happened as of yet.

 
  Hi alihaymeg ,
I have read what you have said and  can understand some of it
  But to  me    when Jesus  appeared  He   made this statment  that He  had no where  to lay His Head  , to me the body of Christ was not formed yet  ,  but when  you read  Pauls writtings the Bodyof Christ / True Church  was being   drawn  to the Head [Christ Jesus ]
  So I do believe that    the body is being drawn  to the Head  and being formed  and knitted in Love   in the Spirit it is ,, but the flesh is being destroyed simultaneously    and that is maybe what is being  observed outwardly ?
 
  here is  a few scriptures  to show my point,   the body without forming to the Head /Christ ?

 
  Mat 8:20 And Jesus said unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man has no where to lay [his] head.[metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent]of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church
 
 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, making  increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
  Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

 now PAUL  shows the  lack  or dividing and not drawing  here  hummm.

  Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increases with the increase of God.  Wherefore if you be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are you subject to ordinances,(Touch not; taste not; handle not]

Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh.
 
  we are to glory in God through Christ  in Spirit and Truth
 
 as Paul said above  we do not glory/boast  in our flesh or let others glory in your flesh
  the  word glory  means  basically to "boast"
 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/boast

Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory/boast  in your flesh.
 

makes you wonder dont it ?

[alihaymeg]

Absolutely!

     I'm not sure of the exact direction you are leading, but I agree with all of those statements.

[YoungYuni]

Oh I see!  I am new here too.

You were not speaking generally about Christians but specifically towards a denominational system which prevents people from questioning what they were taught in order to find understanding. The moment we disagree, we are treated as heretics, not seekers of understanding concerning the things of God.

I just read through this forum, it just appears to me that some here who think any disagreement is evil and to stand up for what we believe in is some how makes us unloving. So I thought you were agreeing with that statement.

 I think I will be quiet from now on because I don't want to contribute to a misunderstanding.

 

[Taffy]

Jesus said that, if He be lifted up, He would draw all people unto Himself. That has obviously not happened as of yet.

 
  Hi alihaymeg ,
I have read what you have said and  can understand some of it
  But to  me    when Jesus  appeared  He   made this statment  that He  had no where  to lay His Head  , to me the body of Christ was not formed yet  ,  but when  you read  Pauls writtings the Bodyof Christ / True Church  was being   drawn  to the Head [Christ Jesus ]
  So I do believe that    the body is being drawn  to the Head  and being formed  and knitted in Love   in the Spirit it is ,, but the flesh is being destroyed simultaneously    and that is maybe what is being  observed outwardly ?
 
  here is  a few scriptures  to show my point,   the body without forming to the Head /Christ ?

 
  Mat 8:20 And Jesus said unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man has no where to lay [his] head.[metaph. anything supreme, chief, prominent]of Christ: the Lord of the husband and of the Church
 
 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, making  increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
  Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

 now PAUL  shows the  lack  or dividing and not drawing  here  hummm.

  Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increases with the increase of God.  Wherefore if you be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are you subject to ordinances,(Touch not; taste not; handle not]

Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh.
 
  we are to glory in God through Christ  in Spirit and Truth
 
 as Paul said above  we do not glory/boast  in our flesh or let others glory in your flesh
  the  word glory  means  basically to "boast"
 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/boast

Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory/boast  in your flesh.
 

makes you wonder dont it ?

he sis..
I missed this one too

Amen kiddo

Ecc 2:13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.
 Ecc 2:14 The wise man's eyes [are] in his head; but the fool walketh in darkness: and I myself perceived also that one event happeneth to them all.

[rosered]

 
  Glad you are back in the ol' saddle again  Taffy 
 
 

[rosered]

Oh I see!  I am new here too.

You were not speaking generally about Christians but specifically towards a denominational system which prevents people from questioning what they were taught in order to find understanding. The moment we disagree, we are treated as heretics, not seekers of understanding concerning the things of God.

I just read through this forum, it just appears to me that some here who think any disagreement is evil and to stand up for what we believe in is some how makes us unloving. So I thought you were agreeing with that statement.

 I think I will be quiet from now on because I don't want to contribute to a misunderstanding.

 

  Hi Young  Yuni
  I personally feel that some of the best TRUTH comes though  , the  defending of your faith  and stand in it , I have been blessed to see this for myself right here on this forum  ! 
 
  I dont think alihaymeg   meant to not disagree , but  respect  one anothers opinion  , and share what GOD  has given freely  , many times
  as long as there is no name calling and hatred   , I see it as a good thing
  I have witnessesed out and out warfare and a certain man thinking he was the only man with all truth and was talking to a bunch of babies
 not on this fourm  but a past forum I dont even go to anylonger
  the bible even  warns  about  speaking to a fool  , they  dont listen  to anyone and get mad at you if you do not listen to  them 
  I think that is what Bro G was  saying in the above post  perhaps ?!
  I have not seen that here at all  though  whew !  them types suck the life out of you and  expect respect as if they were a god 

 here are them  warnings
 
Pro 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of your  words. 


 Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, unless you also be like unto him.


 Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, unless  he be wise in his own conceit.


 

 
 

[alihaymeg]

Absolutely! Disagreement is inevitable. Criticism is not necesary.

[rosered]

Absolutely! Disagreement is inevitable. Criticism is not necesary.

   very well said  sis !

 
 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Criticism
  we are all in this together       a help and being helped by the Good Lords mercy and grace 

[rosered]

 
  I have a healthy   fear and awe of the Lord  from reading His Word 
 
 
 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.


 Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren.


 He that speaks evil of [his] brother, and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law, and judges the law: 
 
but if you  judge the law, you are not a doer of the law, but a judge.


 Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are you  that judges another?
 
  this is very convincing to me