Im so confused!

[imsoconfused]

Rules state  must post here first.

My story is so long, complex and messed up, that im way to weary today to share.

But the basics are: I cannot live with the idea of a wrathful God (even tho I have felt his wrath and no one can talk me out of that, they all try) I have a mental illess and Christianity has worsened it! I was in a cult that preached fear and beyond. I have also felt Gods tremendous love and was delivered from Addiction.

I cannot read the Bible for what i grasp is an arrogant, sadistic punisher who LOVES you? Hello?

I know God And Jesus Are True, but I cannot figure out their character. Im at a point of leaving this religion for it torments me. 

Im terrified of God cause I did not follow after salvation and he got pissed! I continued to sin and will contiue to sin becuz its OUR nature.I try to be pure, but fail daily.

Im confused and tormented. All these Christians Say "ill pray for you" or "God is Good" well, im living proof that God can be cruel with backsliders.

Okay, thats all i can manage.

thx

[rosered]

  Hi Confused ,
 
   Its the pits isnt it ...  sounds like you need  the peace of  the Lord right now  ,  but  there are times when you do just give up  trying 

 
   but the Lord  will rescue you  out of it all
    maybe you are trying to hard or thinking to much about it ,  this will drive you crazy . btw . prayer is a good thing , not a bad thing
 
  What is most important to you at this time ?
 
  His peace  to you ,  sure  mean that 
 

[fullarmor2]

Hang in there confused one.    You have come to a good place here at Tentmaker.    I hope you will be helped here.
  I know I am.    

[peacemaker]

"Human beings tend to focus on the worst, rather than the best."

The Spirit is boundless for it is not subjected to the limitations of human thought, thus, on the surface man's ways
are really insignificant. And he cannot comprehend the existence of error, when too deeply immersed in it.

Things are not always as they appear.

  

peacemaker

[sparrow]

Hey confused...

I saved this awhile back. Don't remember where I found it:


Blessed Are the Confused

*M. Scott Peck*


"When Jesus gave his big sermon, the first words out of his mouth were: "Blessed are the poor in spirit." There are a number of ways to translate"poor in spirit," but on an intellectual level, the best translation is "confused."

Blessed are the confused. If you ask why Jesus might have said that, then I must point out to you that confusion leads to a search for clarification and with that search comes a great deal of learning. For an old idea to die and a new and better idea to take place, we have to go through periods of confusion. It is uncomfortable, sometimes painful to be in such periods. Nonetheless it is blessed because when we are in them, we are open to the new, we are looking, we are growing.

And so it is that Jesus said, "Blessed are the confused." Virtually all of the evil in this world is committed by people who are absolutely certain they know what they're doing. It is not committed by people who think of themselves as confused. It is not committed by the poor in spirit".

Now, this teaching makes sense to me!

[jabcat]

Hang in here with us brother.  Many of us have come out of confusing situations.  Our God is a healing God, and it's especially apparent when we come into His truths.  There is much light and comfort there.  Stay and learn that God really does love you.  His punishments are corrective, not to torture us as many teach - and then we believe it, see God that way, and our flesh takes advantage of that - making us miserable.  Learn of God's goodness, we will try to help.

Jesus, Savior of the world. I John 4:42

God's blessing, James.

[WhiteWings]

I cannot live with the idea of a wrathful God

You don't have to as you will learn if you vistit this forum more often.

I have also felt Gods tremendous love

And that is what the Bible teaches. The wrath is nothing but the teachings of man.

There are a lot of free articles and books on the main site that proof, in a scriptual manner, that the warth God is a fable.

Firsy watch this little video. I think it makes you feel a little better: http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7339.0

 

[Barry DuPont]

Rules state  must post here first.

My story is so long, complex and messed up, that im way to weary today to share.

But the basics are: I cannot live with the idea of a wrathful God (even tho I have felt his wrath and no one can talk me out of that, they all try) I have a mental illess and Christianity has worsened it! I was in a cult that preached fear and beyond. I have also felt Gods tremendous love and was delivered from Addiction.

I cannot read the Bible for what i grasp is an arrogant, sadistic punisher who LOVES you? Hello?

I know God And Jesus Are True, but I cannot figure out their character. Im at a point of leaving this religion for it torments me.  

Im terrified of God cause I did not follow after salvation and he got pissed! I continued to sin and will contiue to sin becuz its OUR nature.I try to be pure, but fail daily.

Im confused and tormented. All these Christians Say "ill pray for you" or "God is Good" well, im living proof that God can be cruel with backsliders.

Okay, thats all i can manage.

thx

With all the law and performance that both Christians and society has taught us it's a wonder that any of us are still sane.

If you are not presently in a position to study or read the bible then my personal advice is don't, until you think you might be ready.

The bible is about relationship.
But it is a book that is easy to misunderstand when read through a lot of pre-programing.

Some of the wrath scriptures are best described in what takes place in the conscience of man.

We also know that we have a linear existence here. So that means learning things sometimes the hard way. We need history in other words. But still I know that God is love

My very personal conviction is that nothing that is good and loving is ever lost permanently for us.

And when we do goodness and loving kindness it is eternal. When it is done to us it is eternal. No one we love is forever lost or will ever be.

God loves us unconditionally. But Fathers still have to teach us and we still have to learn things, about love and loving others and loving ourselves.

Just some thoughts.
Only take from it what might be of any benefit for you.
Barry

[imsoconfused]

Wow! so many replies so quickly! Thx a lot.

But when you hear my full story about my eperiences w God, you'l come to an understanding that I hope you folks can help me with.

Its simply too hard to drum up all the pain confusion and hope right now. I feel ive failed at Chritianity...

BUt when im stronger, ill explain

in love

[Cardinal]

  Hang in there and keep seeking Him; it only gets better. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

But when you hear my full story about my eperiences w God, you'l come to an understanding that I hope you folks can help me with.

Don't fear to ask. Many on this forum walked you path. And all came to know it was a path of lies.... Just give it a little time. Don't run of when you hear new 'strange' things.
1. 1Ti_2:4 - God will have all to be saved - Can His will be thwarted?
2. 1Ti_2:4 - God desires all to come to the knowledge of truth - Will His desire come to pass?
3. 1Ti_2:6 - Salvation of all is testified in due time - Are we judging God before due time?
4. Joh_12:47 - Jesus came to save all - Will He succeed?
5. Eph_1:11 - God works all after the counsel of His will - Can your will overcome His?
6. Joh_4:42 - Jesus is Savior of the world - Can He be Savior of all without saving all?
7. 1Jo_4:14 - Jesus is Savior of the world - Why don't we believe it?
8. Joh_12:32 - Jesus will draw all mankind unto Himself - To roast or to love?
9. Col_1:16 - By Him all were created - Will He lose a part of His creation?
10. Rom_5:15-21 - In Adam all condemned, in Christ all live - The same all?
11. 1Co_15:22 - In Adam all die, in Christ all live - Again, the same all?
12. Eph_1:10 - All come into Him at the fulness of times - Are you getting tired of seeing the word, all?
13. Phi_2:9-11 - Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord - Will the Holy Spirit be given to everyone?
14. 1Co_12:3 - Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit - See what I mean?
15. Rom_11:26 - All Israel will be saved - But most Jews don't believe yet!
16. Act_3:20-21 - Restitution of all - How plain can you get?
17. Luk_2:10 - Jesus will be joy to all people - Is there joy is "hell"?
18. Heb_8:11-12 - All will know God - How long, O Lord?
19. Eph_2:7 - His grace shown in the ages to come - Have we judged Him before the time?
20. Tit_2:11 - Grace has appeared to all - Experientially or prophetically?
21. Rom_8:19-21 - Creation set at liberty - How much of creation?
22. Col_1:20 - All reconciled unto God - There's that word "all" again.
23. 1Co_4:5 - All will have praise of God - What for?
24. Jam_5:11 - End of the Lord is full of mercy - Is "hell" mercy?
25. Rev_15:4 - All nations worship when God's judgments are seen - Could His judgment be mercy?
26. Rom_11:32 - All subject to unbelief, mercy on all - All?
27. Rom_11:36 - All out of, through, and into Him - ALL into Him?
28. Eph_4:10 - Jesus will fill all things -  Including "hell?"
29. Rev_5:13 - All creation seen praising God - Including Satan?
30. 1Co_15:28 - God will be all in all - What does that mean, preacher?
31. Rev_21:4-5 - No more tears, all things made new - ALL made new?
32. Joh_5:25 - All dead who hear will live - How many will hear?
33. Joh_5:28 - All in the grave will hear and come forth - How will the "righteous" judge, judge?
34. 1Co_3:15 - All saved, so as by fire - How can fire save you?
35. Mar_9:49 - Everyone shall be salted with fire - Including you?
36. Rom_11:15 - Reconciliation of the world - Will fire save the world instead of destroy it?
37. 2Co_5:15 - Jesus died for all - Did He die in vain?
38. Joh_8:29 - Jesus always does what pleases His Father - What pleases the Father? (1Ti_2:4) 
39. Heb_1:2 - Jesus is Heir of all things - Does "things" include people?
40. Joh_17:2 - Jesus gives eternal life to all that His Father gave Him - How many did the Father give Him?
41. Joh_3:35 - The Father gave Him all things - (Repeated for emphasis) Study the word "things" in the Greek.
42. 1Ti_4:9-11 - Jesus is Savior of all! - Can't seem to get away from that word "all."
43. Heb_7:25 - Jesus is able to save to the uttermost - How far is "uttermost?"
44. 1Co_15:26 - Last enemy, death, will be destroyed - Including "lake of fire" which is "second death?"
45. Isa_46:10 - God will do all His pleasure - Does Old Testament agree with the New?
46. Gen_18:18 - All families of the earth will be blessed - Here comes that word "all" again.
47. Dan_4:35 - God's will done in heaven and earth - What can defeat His will?
48. Psa_66:3-4 - Enemies will submit to God - Can any stay rebellious in "hell?"
49. Psa_90:3 - God turns man to destruction, then says return - How can one return from "destruction?"
50. Isa_25:7 - Will destroy veil spread over all nations - All nations?
51. Deu_32:39 - He kills and makes alive - Kills to bring life?
52. Psa_33:15 - God fashions all hearts - "All" hearts, including men like "Hitler?"
53. Pro_16:9 - Man devises, God directs his steps - What about "free will?"
54. Pro_19:21 - Man devises, but God's counsel stands - So much for "free will".
55. Lam_3:31-32 - God will not cast off forever - Why does He cast off in the first place? (1 Cor. 11)
56. Isa_2:2 - All nations shall flow to the Lord's house - ALL nations?
57. Psa_86:9 - All nations will worship Him - ALL nations!
58. Isa_45:23 - All descendants of Israel justified - Including the wicked ones?
59. Psa_138:4 - All kings will praise God - Are you catching on?
60. Psa_65:2-4 - All flesh will come to God - That sounds wondrous.
61. Psa_72:18 - God only does wondrous things - I wish we would believe that.
62. Isa_19:21-23 - Egypt & Assyria will be restored - Really?
63. Eze_16:55 - Sodom will be restored to former estate - Sounds impossible.
64. Jer_32:17 - Nothing is too difficult for Him - Nothing? No, nothing!
65. Psa_22:27 - All ends of the earth will turn to Him - For what purpose?
66. Psa_22:27 - All families will worship before Him - Praise His name!
67. Psa_145:9 - He is good to all - Including your worst enemies.
68. Psa_145:9 - His mercies are over all his works - Let's start believing that.
69. Psa_145:14 - He raises all who fall - Who hasn't fallen in sin?
70. Psa_145:10 - All His works will praise Him - For "eternal torment?"
71. Isa_25:6 - Lord makes a feast for all people - And you are invited.
72. Jer_32:35 - Never entered His mind to torture his children with fire. This came from the carnal mind.
73. Joh_6:44 - No one can come to Him unless He draws them. You can't "chose" to follow Him.
74. Joh_12:32 - I will draw all mankind unto Myself - Amen!!!
75. Psa_135:6 - God does what pleases Him - If it pleases Him to save all that He might be in all, are you upset?

[firstborn888]

Hey confused...

I saved this awhile back. Don't remember where I found it:


Blessed Are the Confused

*M. Scott Peck*


"When Jesus gave his big sermon, the first words out of his mouth were: "Blessed are the poor in spirit." There are a number of ways to translate"poor in spirit," but on an intellectual level, the best translation is "confused."

Blessed are the confused. If you ask why Jesus might have said that, then I must point out to you that confusion leads to a search for clarification and with that search comes a great deal of learning. For an old idea to die and a new and better idea to take place, we have to go through periods of confusion. It is uncomfortable, sometimes painful to be in such periods. Nonetheless it is blessed because when we are in them, we are open to the new, we are looking, we are growing.

And so it is that Jesus said, "Blessed are the confused." Virtually all of the evil in this world is committed by people who are absolutely certain they know what they're doing. It is not committed by people who think of themselves as confused. It is not committed by the poor in spirit".

Now, this teaching makes sense to me!

A sparrow carrying hope in her wings. How cool is that? 

Hey there imsoconfused. Let God's perfect love embrace you. To the pure all things are pure. 

[jfraysse]

Hey Confused:

I don't know your story, but I strongly suspect that it was Orthodox Christianity that has failed you.

When you have about 45 minutes, please watch this four-part video series on Carlton Pearson.  Just remember, you can be a follower of Jesus and honor Him in your life without being a "Christian".  It's just a label.  I will guarantee you that Our Father will NOT ask you what others call you!  God Loves you and knows your Heart but cares not about "your label"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYtlsduMUM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AvsSh-VUKY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwh2_xo7HFE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYcwQCz4c6w&feature=related

In His Love, John

[Raggedy Anne]

Good advice, John. 

Confused - my heart goes out to you.  I used to feel the same way you do now.  It's a symptom of traveling through Babylon (carnality/religion).  It leads to much confusion and little peace.   Hope you stick around and hang on to your rope.

Anne

[Werner]

I am in the same confusion. You are not alone. You mentioned mental illness ... I have struggled with it my whole life (depression, anxiety). It is a terrible feeling to think you never can do enough to please God, to feel that God sees you as a miserable failure who is not worthy of His Kingdom. This I have felt for a long time. But, for the first time in my life, I am realizing why Jesus really came, to save us precisely because we cannot save ourselves. To save us and forgive us our sins, not to condemn. This is salvation and peace is starting to fill my life. My old way of thinking comes back sometimes but I am on my way.

Be patient with yourself. We ALL fall many times.

[V.I.D.]

to feel that God sees you as a miserable failure who is not worthy of His Kingdom.

I wish i thought about god as you did think . I would LOVE to know that God hates me and sees me as not worth of his kingdome .
I rather think that He sees me this way and will FORCE me to be in his kingdome . This makes my life even more misarable . PLEASE dont make the mistake to believe in UR . Hell is a better place than this brainwashing evil doctrine .Here God is a brainwashing , evil being with no true justice,or TRUE LOVE  that forces people to be with Him even if they never asked for it . It is worse to feel like you are forced to be with an evil being ,or brainwashed to love it ,than be in hell .
Every single day i hate this doctrine more and more . It is manipulative ,evil and lying. There is no true justice in it and no true love .

[WhiteWings]

to feel that God sees you as a miserable failure who is not worthy of His Kingdom.

I wish i thought about God as you did think . I would LOVE to know that God hates me and sees me as not worth of his kingdome.
I rather think that He sees me this way and will FORCE me to be in his kingdome.

What if God would not force you? What if God shows you evidence that your view was wrong and you simply change you view because of that?

This makes my life even more misarable . PLEASE dont make the mistake to believe in UR . Hell is a better place than this brainwashing evil doctrine.

Goto  hospital and talk to someone with 3rd degree burns all over their body. They had a tiny example of what the ET hell is.  I can't believe you or anyone would prefer to be in such a place.

Here God is a brainwashing , evil being with no true justice,or TRUE LOVE  that forces people to be with Him even if they never asked for it.

What would be best according to you VID? That at judgement God asks you if you want to stop existing. You may not like to be with God because you didn't choose Him. But other didn't choose hell. Isn't that equally unfair?

It is worse to feel like you are forced to be with an evil being ,or brainwashed to love it ,than be in hell .
Every single day i hate this doctrine more and more . It is manipulative ,evil and lying. There is no true justice in it and no true love.

VID, what doctrine you believe has true love and justice?

[V.I.D.]

Goto  hospital and talk to someone with 3rd degree burns all over their body. They had a tiny example of what the ET hell is.  I can't believe you or anyone would prefer to be in such a place.

Never wanted hell for enyone . I just think that what you believe is NOT better .
Being forced ,or brainwashed in to God ,or being in hell are BOTH crap .

What would be best according to you VID? That at judgement God asks you if you want to stop existing.

If He does ask me such a thing ,it only confirms to my thought that He is evil . I just want to have a choice to not serve Him ,or not be with Him . I dont want hells ,or enything . Every being desires to exist and that is obvious .

VID, what doctrine you believe has true love and justice?

No doctrine . Doctrines have NOT true love and justice .

What i think comes CLOSE to goodness is perfect independence and freedom .Goodness and love .
Those things should be a gift for every being .

[WhiteWings]

What would be best according to you VID? That at judgement God asks you if you want to stop existing.

If He does ask me such a thing ,it only confirms to my thought that He is evil . I just want to have a choice to not serve Him ,or not be with Him . I dont want hells ,or enything . Every being desires to exist and that is obvious.

Just to understand your view better. So you would chose that you would be put on a nice planet where you just live on without ever hearing of God again. Just live on that planet with others that made the same choice as you did. Is that what you mean VID?

[V.I.D.]

Just to understand your view better. So you would chose that you would be put on a nice planet where you just live on without ever hearing of God again. Just live on that planet with others that made the same choice as you did. Is that what you mean VID?

Nope .
I want to be independent . That means : No one can make you be tortured . No one can force you to do enything you dont want . No one can put you where you dont want .No one can manipulate you . No one and NOTHING will  bind you ,make you a slave , make you incapable of the things you can be capable in ,or infact in enything .
None can boss you arround . You are pefectly ok and whole in your self . You are good and loving UNCONDITIONALY . And powerfull and DOING and GIVING ALL YOUR LOVE without limitations NOW and to everyone .

This is as CLOSE as i can get to the truth about what i think that should be . O do my mind is too small and BOUND to touch what i desire.

I dont want to be a god ,or whatever . I want to be the things that i said and i want this for everyone .
I know its sounds stupid ,but just call me a dreamer and that is better than being a slave to enything .

[Molly]

Just to understand your view better. So you would chose that you would be put on a nice planet where you just live on without ever hearing of God again. Just live on that planet with others that made the same choice as you did. Is that what you mean VID?

Nope .
I want to be independent . That means : No one can make you be tortured . No one can force you to do enything you dont want . No one can put you where you dont want .No one can manipulate you . No one and NOTHING will  bind you ,make you a slave , make you incapable of the things you can be capable in ,or infact in enything .
None can boss you arround . You are pefectly ok and whole in your self . You are good and loving UNCONDITIONALY . And powerfull and DOING and GIVING ALL YOUR LOVE without limitations NOW and to everyone .

This is as CLOSE as i can get to the truth about what i think that should be . O do my mind is too small and BOUND to touch what i desire.

I dont want to be a god ,or whatever . I want to be the things that i said and i want this for everyone .
I know its sounds stupid ,but just call me a dreamer and that is better than being a slave to enything .

It doesn't sound stupid to me, V.I.D.  It sounds a lot like this--


 We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

--Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence, 1776

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/

[V.I.D.]

This is a nice idea ,but i dont believe that eny goverment has ever been like this .
And yes it is simular ,but i do not like liberty ,i like freedom .

I have had some research and know that the goverment of every country just tries to bound people in order to achieve the political goals that they have .

[Molly]

This is a nice idea ,but i dont believe that eny goverment has ever been like this .
And yes it is simular ,but i do not like liberty ,i like freedom .

I have had some research and know that the goverment of every country just tries to bound people in order to achieve the political goals that they have .

Only because people allow it, V.I.D.

But, isn't your ideal that people would no longer allow themselves to be bound?  That was Jefferson's ideal--Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness for all.

[V.I.D.]

Why do you think i am still without a job ?
I left my job because i could not stand the mercyless exploitation that the company had toward the workers .
They were smart and very nice people ,yet used like mops for miserable payment .
And now i am unhapy because i dont have a job and dont know what the future will bring .

People allow it YES . But those that want a change are such a small group that it is only their heads that will hurt from the atempts they make to change things .

That is why i dont like your god aswell . I didnt choose to be here ! I dont want to be here !
And i did not choose to be limited and bounded as i am now . Even if one day i have the best job and live in the best nation ,i am still a small piece of dust in this universe that the big powers can use without care of what suffering may be on my head .

[Molly]

People allow it YES . But those that want a change are such a small group that it is only their heads that will hurt from the atempts they make to change things .

You may think it irrelevant, but Jesus experienced the same thing.  That's why he said this--


Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.


He knew he was fighting for something bigger than himself as one man, and that his disciples would be few in number against a huge, unjust, man-made system.

He also promised us he would be with us in the battle--it's a spiritual war, which you have already perceived--

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

These are the things his followers have to find out for themselves, as they pick up whatever cross they have in their own lives and follow him.

But, it might take a leap of faith...