Author Topic: New to Universalism.  (Read 1772 times)

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Lupac

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New to Universalism.
« on: November 04, 2009, 07:45:34 AM »
Hi all! I come from a very Calvinistic Reformed Presbyterian background. I believe God started me on this path that lead me here. I guess what started it all was the doctrine of ET. I got to where I could not even look at the world around me with out feeling awful, that so many people would go to hell. I am also a student of the Japanese language, which requires me to listen and watch a lot of Japanese shows and music. I couldn't even do that with out thinking about how all these people would end up in hell. (Japan is one of the most, um, I guess "advanced" non-Christian nations in the world.) Anyway, I started reading up on the origin of hell, and found it to be quite contrary to what I was always taught. For a very short while. (About a week or so.) I found the doctrine of annihilation to be the most correct, but it still didn't make sense to me. Then I found this website, and thank God for that. All these passages in the Bible I thought were contradictory made a whole lot more sense. I still don't understand everything, and I have a lot of questions, which is why I'm here.

Thank you, and Hello!

Gab

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 07:55:55 AM »
Welcome. :smile:

Offline sparrow

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 08:00:03 AM »
Welcome Lupac! We have a board memeber who shares similar interests as you (Japanese). Hopefully he will pop on and say hello!  :icon_flower:
Again, welcome to the board. Glad you are here.
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 09:07:24 AM »
 :cloud9: Welcome...... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 10:34:12 AM »
:welcome: Lupac  :welcome:
Look around and ask as much as you like.
I assume you aready found the main website?
http://www.tentmaker.org/
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline rosered

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 03:23:15 PM »

  Greetings Lupac!

  good  words  enjoyed your introduction !    May you always feel welcome .
  I so agree, when I believed in ET ,  found so much of the Bible 
 limited and contradictory  as well 
  Thank the good Lord also for His mercy and showing us , teaching us  His way in the  Spirit in Love .
 Hope you stick around awhile and get to know this great group of folks / family  in Christ
  you cannot help but love them all so dearly  :HeartThrob:  a sister in Christ Rose  :icon_flower:

natcat86

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 05:28:55 PM »
HI! Welcome!


Enjoy your time here.

Nat


 :welcome: :dsunny: :angelharp: :banana: :beerburp: :knitting: :beach:


(What an ace oppertunity to do some seriously smilie-ing.)

Lupac

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 03:19:32 AM »
One thing I found really disturbing in what I was taught, was that God basically made most people for hell. Now, I don't think any of them (My pastor, people in my church, etc.) would actually say that, but they believe that it's up to God to choose his "elect", and not up to man. (Which for the Baptist, it's the opposite.) Therefor, if God chooses which people to save, and sends the rest to hell, well, I think that really distorts the image of God.

Offline jabcat

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 03:22:20 AM »
Hi Brother Lupac.  In a hurry, but quickly, I came out of a Baptist denomination (as well Assembly of God growing up)...some things in common.

Giving you a quick welcome, and I'd like to share the same thoughts I just posted with another new member.

Welcome, thanks, and God's blessing.  James.

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7219.msg81819#msg81819

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 05:45:23 AM »
Welcome, Lupac -

I was not raised as a 'Calvinist' but certainly wrestled with that view due to certain scriptures, particularly sections of the book of Romans.    Calvinism was something I thought difficult to discuss in polite company, and especially not with those 'Once Saved Always Saved, Free Will Baptists'. 

It is great to have new faces coming here all the time.  Hope you find this place helpful.

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Lupac

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2009, 06:23:10 AM »
Maybe some background on myself will help you to see why I ask the questions I do. I'm still afraid of hell, as a place of eternal torment and damnation. This may seem strange, but I am also afraid that God, at least as we know him, isn't real. Now, it may seem silly to you that I'm worried about both these things. I don't know why, I just am.

Um, more background. I'm eighteen years old, male, I was raised a Christian, like I said in my earlier post, but I have always been worried, and had doubts. I don't know why. Many times I have prayed to God to help me out. To give me faith; and to show me what he wants me to do. I have some, mental problems. I have panic attacks, moderate depression, and really bad obsessive compulsive disorder. Before you discount me, I want to say, it got so bad once, I almost considered suicide; just to get the thoughts I was obsessing over to stop. Also, bad news tends to affect me, and seem more believable than good news to me. I guess that's one reason why I tend to be affected most by people who say the Bible isn't true. I used to spend all my time reading apologetics sites, mostly fueled by my fear (Not the right kind.) of God and hell. Trying to convince myself it was true, because I was, and still am to some degree, afraid of hell. (As defined up there ^.)

I guess I'm looking for some reassurance, and I ask for prayer. (My real name is Bryant, no last name, not right now.) So many people, supposed "Bible Scholars", archeologist, scientist, and just plain doubters that say that the Bible isn't true. Or that this contradicts that; and things of that nature. I don't want to believe them, but there seems to be so many of them. Sometimes I'm worried I'll at some point lose my faith, and then God will be very angry at me and burn me forever. Okay, I gotta stop now before I start crying. What do you think I should do?

Thank you.

(On a side note, maybe I should go back to my Doctor and try and get some medication. I don't take anything right now, and I don't want to start.)

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2009, 06:34:13 AM »

Dude, you're being brought forth in righteousness.
His name is being blazoned upon your heart.
Fear not and walk in the path that He will show you according to your faith.   

Offline Cardinal

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 06:42:16 AM »
 :cloud9: Bryant, do whatever you need to do to gain some stability if you're having any suicidal thoughts, until you get on your feet.

Perfect love casts out fear, and is NOT of God, for He IS perfect love. If you have not acknowledged him as Lord of your life, cry out to him in a baptism of tears in repentance and I promise you, HE will hear you and His Spirit will begin to let you know YOU ARE ACCEPTED in the Beloved which is Christ.

Fear hath torment, and God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind. It doesn't matter what the scholars think about anything, but what matters is what the Spirit of God will make real to YOU in your heart. They are just men, many of whom don't know Him for themselves, but YOU need to know Him. I am praying for you. Blessings to you; you will be alright, just turn with your whole heart to Him and let Him touch you. No man can do this for you.  :girlheart:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Lupac

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 06:52:58 AM »
Don't worry, I'm NOT suicidal. I'm just, IDK, I have cried out to Him man times. Everyday, I repent of every sin I can think of, even ones I have committed when I was much younger. I've tried so hard to turn my heart to him, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Thank though.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 06:54:25 AM »

You're doing everything right !

Offline jabcat

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2009, 07:20:37 AM »
Please feel free to PM me, Bryant.  I can relate to much of what you are saying.  I had many of the same issues when I was your age, and though time and grace have mellowed me, I still often struggle.  Learning and focusing on grace has been a biggie for me.  Trying to focus on HIS works, HIS love, HIS gifts, HIS power, HIS strength..remembering (over and over) that it's in my weakness that His strength sustains me, and that His grace, despite of all that's me, IS SUFFICIENT.

Know that He loves you.  That HE gives you your faith.  That HE has begun a good work in you, and HE will complete it.  That HE is the Author of your faith AND the Completer.  All the obedience He requests?  He gives us the strength to do it.  He knows we're flesh, and that in our flesh [in and of itself] there dwells no good thing.  It's only Him, His Spirit within us, and the blood of Jesus covering us, that makes us righteous - yes, RIGHTEOUS in His sight.  Righteous means "right standing", or "just right".  And HE is our righteousness.  He is your covering.  There are several scriptures in the above that I've not taken the time to reference, but they are there.  Much of what I've just told you is right out of the scriptures.

He holds you in the palm of His hand, and (more scripture) what can harm you if God is for you.  And He is.  He predestined you to be reconciled to Him before He even made the world.  Life can be hard, but He ONLY wants, and WILL BRING ABOUT WHAT IS GOOD FOR YOU!  You or I CANNOT do it in our own strength.  And He doesn't ask us to.  Open your heart and let Him breathe on and in you.

Hey Bryant.  He loves you this much - when He was on the cross, you were on His mind.

God's blessing, James.


Offline sparrow

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2009, 07:54:35 AM »
Bryant...  :HeartThrob:

Check your message's brother.
I'm sending you one right now.

love,
sparrow
"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Gab

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2009, 08:25:02 AM »
Bryant, I don't claim to have all the answers, but I think there's a very important question that I think you should ask yourself: namely, why are you afraid of hell?  I ask because, in my experience at least, fear of hell tends to come from a concern of one's own fate above and beyond the fate of others.  What is there to be afraid of in hell, except for one's own experience?

I don't know if I'm reading too much into this passage, but in three of the Gospels there's a story of a rich man who comes to Jesus and asks what good thing he must do to inherit aionion life.  Note here that the focus is on the work itself, not its motivation.  Jesus responds by basically telling him that he should go sell everything he owns and give to the poor, which causes the person to leave empty-handed.  Many take this to say that Jesus is saying that it doesn't matter what you do (i.e., "faith over works"), but I read it in a different way: I think that what Jesus is saying is that if you're asking what you can do to attain aionion life, then you're already lost because you've asked the wrong question to begin with.  There's nothing that you can do in order to attain aionion life for one simple reason: if you're doing something to attain aionion life, then you're doing it for the wrong reason.  Aionion life is a byproduct of love for and knowledge of God, not a goal towards which one ought to dedicate one's life.

In this respect, I think that Jesus is really saying that everything we do, we must do out of love for our fellow man and for God, not for ourselves.  If we are afraid of hell, then I would assert that this is because we are still doing things for ourselves - we are like the rich man who wanted very much to buy his way into heaven, when that's just not what it's about at all.  Nothing we can do is possibly "enough", because no matter what we do, there is always more we can do.  We should not, therefore, have our eternal destiny as our concern, but rather the welfare and well-being of our neighbor.  What is the point of anything, after all, if it does not come from love, and if it does not aim to bring others to love?

I believe that the moment that one begins to live for others, not simply for his own hide, is the moment that one will cease to have any fear in their heart at all of hell - because it's at that moment that the person will cease to even have any concern for his own eternal destiny.  Treat heaven as a nice side benefit, not as a goal, and everything else will come together in time.

Lupac

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2009, 05:43:54 PM »
Bryant, I don't claim to have all the answers, but I think there's a very important question that I think you should ask yourself: namely, why are you afraid of hell?  I ask because, in my experience at least, fear of hell tends to come from a concern of one's own fate above and beyond the fate of others.  What is there to be afraid of in hell, except for one's own experience?

I don't know if I'm reading too much into this passage, but in three of the Gospels there's a story of a rich man who comes to Jesus and asks what good thing he must do to inherit aionion life.  Note here that the focus is on the work itself, not its motivation.  Jesus responds by basically telling him that he should go sell everything he owns and give to the poor, which causes the person to leave empty-handed.  Many take this to say that Jesus is saying that it doesn't matter what you do (i.e., "faith over works"), but I read it in a different way: I think that what Jesus is saying is that if you're asking what you can do to attain aionion life, then you're already lost because you've asked the wrong question to begin with.  There's nothing that you can do in order to attain aionion life for one simple reason: if you're doing something to attain aionion life, then you're doing it for the wrong reason.  Aionion life is a byproduct of love for and knowledge of God, not a goal towards which one ought to dedicate one's life.

In this respect, I think that Jesus is really saying that everything we do, we must do out of love for our fellow man and for God, not for ourselves.  If we are afraid of hell, then I would assert that this is because we are still doing things for ourselves - we are like the rich man who wanted very much to buy his way into heaven, when that's just not what it's about at all.  Nothing we can do is possibly "enough", because no matter what we do, there is always more we can do.  We should not, therefore, have our eternal destiny as our concern, but rather the welfare and well-being of our neighbor.  What is the point of anything, after all, if it does not come from love, and if it does not aim to bring others to love?

I believe that the moment that one begins to live for others, not simply for his own hide, is the moment that one will cease to have any fear in their heart at all of hell - because it's at that moment that the person will cease to even have any concern for his own eternal destiny.  Treat heaven as a nice side benefit, not as a goal, and everything else will come together in time.

I think, I'm afraid of hell not only for myself, but for others also. Like I said in my eariler post, the main thing that led me here was fear of hell for others. But I think you may be right about me only caring about myself at times. I don't have many friends, and I mostly just stay in my room, learning all day. (Japanese, advanced math, etc.) (I was home schooled.) Thanks everybody who sent me a PM, I'll get to them soon. I still worry that there isn't a God, or he isn't who the Bible says he is, or something. I will always continue to pray in His and Jesus' name. I'm still afraid of hell for myself. I would be happy with ceasing to exist over burning forever. Although both are unpleasant to think about, and I want nether. Thank you everyone.

Offline DeAndra

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2009, 11:18:16 PM »
Welcome!!!

Offline Taffy

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2009, 11:20:37 PM »
Hi and Welcome to Tent Lupac :icon_flower:

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Gab

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2009, 12:17:55 AM »
I think, I'm afraid of hell not only for myself, but for others also. Like I said in my eariler post, the main thing that led me here was fear of hell for others. But I think you may be right about me only caring about myself at times. I don't have many friends, and I mostly just stay in my room, learning all day. (Japanese, advanced math, etc.) (I was home schooled.) Thanks everybody who sent me a PM, I'll get to them soon. I still worry that there isn't a God, or he isn't who the Bible says he is, or something. I will always continue to pray in His and Jesus' name. I'm still afraid of hell for myself. I would be happy with ceasing to exist over burning forever. Although both are unpleasant to think about, and I want nether. Thank you everyone.

Well, in terms of worrying that others will go to hell, I tend to look at it like this: if anyone else will go to eternal torment, then I will join them; therefore, either there is no eternal torment, or I will be with those in it.  Therefore, nothing to worry about - the only cause for worry is the unknown, and once you've come to terms with all possible options, there's nothing left to be afraid of.

I know that probably the most difficult thing to do in life is to not worry about that which you can't change - I still struggle with that - but it's something that ultimately will make one's life much better.

Lupac

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2009, 05:04:32 AM »
I wanted to know what kind of church you all go to, if you go. Also, I remember reading an article on this site about the sabbath, or something. Anyone have it? Also, I want to tell my parents about this, and about UR. But I'm afraid they'll think I'm a heretic, or something. (I still live at home, and go to church with them, so I think I'll hold off for now.)

Offline Cardinal

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Re: New to Universalism.
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2009, 05:29:06 AM »
 :cloud9: There are some people on here who attend to keep the peace in the family, ect. I don't think most go anywhere.

As for me, there is no family that would care if I did or didn't at this point, so I find it impossible to sit and listen to distortions, so I only go as He leads me to, for His purposes. My  :2c: Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor