Author Topic: Hello  (Read 974 times)

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Offline Isaac

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Hello
« on: December 18, 2010, 05:14:47 PM »
Hello,

I have already made five posts, so I should probably introduce myself.

I am from Ireland and have chosen Isaac (after Isaac of Syria) as my pseudonym.

I am a Catholic born and bred and I first started to explore UR in 2008 after a deep crisis in faith forced me to question how I could square God's love against his threats of hell and damnation.

I started to look very tentatively at UR thinking that I would just find a lot of wishful thinking and twisted verses of scripture, but I was amazed by what I found. I had no idea that UR was so huge in the early years of the Church and I had no idea that the UR verses in the New Testament were actually quite compelling, unlike the aion verses which are far from clear!

For me, there are three ways to argue UR: Theology, history and scripture. I am utterly convinced that UR wins the first one hands down. The second is a more narrow victory, but I think we still have it, and the latter (scripture) is far more open, but definitely in play.

I don't describe myself as a 100% universalist. For one thing, as a Catholic I have to accept that my Church has dogmatised ET and I also accept that the NT did give some clear warnings which are meant to make us sit up and take note, even if they're not 100% literal. Catholics are allowed to hope and pray for UR and we are allowed to believe that it is more inline with God's nature than ET, but we aren't allowed to hold UR as a definite. That's probably where I am. I hope and pray for UR, but ultimately when I pray I say thy will be done.

I have a belief that most Christians these days are universalists, even if they don't admit it. It's amazing how many Catholic priests are universalists. When you really drill down into it with them, most of them don't see people ending up in hell. I wonder if the Church (i.e. all churches) have been that way all along - most of the members and ministers are universalists quietly, but don't want to shout too loud about it?

Interestingly, since I have been a (almost) universalist, I have found it far easier to love God and far easier to love other people. I see so much more joy in life and the world now and I feel far more alive in my faith. I completely hate this idea which says that UR makes us lax and more likely to sin. If people are only being good because of a threat, then they're not really being that good - they're actually being quite selfish. True freedom, for me, means being able to make a choice with no threat attached to it. True justice to me, means things being put right. It means love and forgiveness, not punishment.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hello
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 05:31:30 PM »
It's amazing how many Catholic priests are universalists.
The previous pope was one too I think.
There was a thread on this forum with several quotes from RCC leaders that sounded very URish.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Isaac

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Re: Hello
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 10:28:49 AM »
It's amazing how many Catholic priests are universalists.
The previous pope was one too I think.

Yes, both the current and former Pope have been suspected of Universalism. Both were very devoted to Hans Urs Von Balthesar. Many of their Encyclicals have been seen as expressing Universalist sentiment too.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hello
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 10:41:41 AM »
It's amazing how many Catholic priests are universalists.
The previous pope was one too I think.

Yes, both the current and former Pope have been suspected of Universalism. Both were very devoted to Hans Urs Von Balthesar. Many of their Encyclicals have been seen as expressing Universalist sentiment too.
Isaac,
You may like this thread.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Isaac

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Re: Hello
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 02:23:25 PM »
Which thread?

Offline WhiteWings

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1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hello
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 09:42:55 PM »
I found another bit of information:


BOOK: Jesus Christ: Salvation of All

Review starts at page 8: http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d100801.pdf
Quote
the Catholic Church, with approval
and encouragement at the highest levels including that of the current Pope Benedict XVI, has allowed to be
published and is quietly promoting the doctrine of universal salvation.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Hello
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 10:19:52 PM »
 :cloud9: All truly means all. His Spirit is not limited by the walls of denominations; when He wants to reveal Himself to someone, He does. Blessings and welcome to the board...... :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hello
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 11:18:44 PM »
The above post if a truth! :thumbsup:  WELCOME :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.