Author Topic: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...  (Read 6990 times)

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Texas Son

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Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« on: November 26, 2008, 11:12:09 AM »
If there is already a thread for this could someone kindly direct me there?  :bgdance:

Since Universalism doesn't necessarily have a denomination (as far as I know) I was wondering where everyone fellowships, whether they keep their UR leanings to themselves, and also what version of the Bible do you use?

The Bible question is one of particular interest for me as I love my NASB. Of course now I am interested in getting one that holds closer to the original text in regards to "hell" and "eternal".

TS

Offline jabcat

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 11:20:24 AM »
Grew up AG and independent Pentecostal, joined the Southern Baptist denomination (wife a life-long member) the past 15-20 years, resigned from the denomination this summer following God's strong conviction for me to come out of it.  I attend on Sunday mornings with her as a "compromise" and gesture toward her, son also still attends there (though I'd say they're both UR)...otherwise, if not for them going there, I wouldn't go. 

I started a thread "Taking the plunge..sharing UR with the Pastor" which you may enjoy reading.  I share UR s/w gradually.

I like the way the NASB reads (although it has hell, forever, eternal, doesn't it?), but I mostly read the CLT, Young's, Modern Young's, and The Christian Bible (www.christianbiblesociety.com).
 
God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 11:24:07 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 11:25:52 AM »
My origin is Roman Catholic. I need a map to find a church....
I read from around 70 Bibles. Most of them electronic ones.
I often use KJV because 'everyone' uses it and because it is linked to Strong.
Next step is usally comparing with YLT or Rotherham
Basicly the first step is always KJV and the second step whatever translation uses age instead of eternal
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Texas Son

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 11:29:19 AM »
Grew up AG and independent Pentecostal, joined the Southern Baptist denomination (wife a life-long member) the past 15-20 years, resigned from the denomination this summer following God's strong conviction for me to come out of it.  I attend on Sunday mornings with her as a "compromise" and gesture toward her, son also still attends there (though I'd say they're both UR)...otherwise, if not for them going there, I wouldn't go. 

I started a thread "Taking the plunge..sharing UR with the Pastor" which you may enjoy reading.  I share UR s/w gradually.

I like the way the NASB reads (although it has hell, forever, eternal, doesn't it?), but I mostly read the CLT, Young's, Modern Young's, and The Christian Bible (www.christianbiblesociety.com).
 
God's blessing, James.

Thanks for sharing! If you have the link for it could you share the one for "Take the plunge". I have shared with my elders that I am leaning UR. I am just now catching flack for it and muddling through answering their questions.

Texas Son

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 11:31:51 AM »
My origin is Roman Catholic. I need a map to find a church....
I read from around 70 Bibles. Most of them electronic ones.
I often use KJV because 'everyone' uses it and because it is linked to Strong.
Next step is usally comparing with YLT or Rotherham
Basicly the first step is always KJV and the second step whatever translation uses age instead of eternal

WhiteWings, would you think that it would be easier for a Roman Catholic or a Protestant to receive UR? I know all revelation comes from God, but I believe it may be more difficult for some due to their religious doctrines.

Offline jabcat

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« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 11:49:37 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline firstborn888

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2008, 12:34:49 PM »
My origin is Roman Catholic. I need a map to find a church....
I read from around 70 Bibles. Most of them electronic ones.
I often use KJV because 'everyone' uses it and because it is linked to Strong.
Next step is usally comparing with YLT or Rotherham
Basicly the first step is always KJV and the second step whatever translation uses age instead of eternal

WhiteWings, would you think that it would be easier for a Roman Catholic or a Protestant to receive UR? I know all revelation comes from God, but I believe it may be more difficult for some due to their religious doctrines.

Somewhere around here (IICC) there was a post that quoted the Pope saying it was a 'possibility'. Does anyone know where that is?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2008, 12:47:04 PM »
My origin is Roman Catholic. I need a map to find a church....
I read from around 70 Bibles. Most of them electronic ones.
I often use KJV because 'everyone' uses it and because it is linked to Strong.
Next step is usally comparing with YLT or Rotherham
Basicly the first step is always KJV and the second step whatever translation uses age instead of eternal

WhiteWings, would you think that it would be easier for a Roman Catholic or a Protestant to receive UR? I know all revelation comes from God, but I believe it may be more difficult for some due to their religious doctrines.

TS,

I'm not the one you should ask such things. I've been in church of over 20 years. Atheist would be a better name for me than RC.
To be honest I don't even (care to) know the diffrence between most dominations.
But if this a yes now question I would say yes for Catholics.
Simply because they already believe in purgatory.
It's a mild form of hell where you are cleaned from sin and eventually goto heaven.
I think it contains real flames but not as hot as real hell. Ok many will find it nonsense; but my point is that it's a good starting point. UR also knows some punishment/cleaning. So common ground to build on.
If RC would believe all would end up in purgatory that would be a big step.
I have my own theory on purgatory that isn't based on scripture at all. Just a feeling I get from reading all kinda things.
Article son this webiste show that church was (almost) 100% UR at start. Now many 100% ET churches exist.
RC due to its purgatory are say 40% UR (no idea who gets in purgatory or not)
When I read history of church I read things about political pressure (often to accept paganism) and other none spiritual things. It may well be RC invented purgatory as middleground between Christianity and paganism.
Somewhere on the Vatican website is a transcription of one of the speeches of the former pope where he states he doesn't belive hell to be real flames but more a emptyness felt because of 100% seperation of God.
I don't know how common his view is in RC circles. Maybe it's a small step away from ET?

Personally I think teh easiest step to UR might be atheism or perhaps some fuzzy wuzzy lifestyle like new age.
Learning is often easier than unlearning....

I hope someone with a solid background can verify or debunk my post.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 01:03:14 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 12:51:41 PM »
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1572646.ece

Current pope preaches real eternal flames. Previous pope seperation of God.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/16159/pope-to-end-doctrine-of-limbo

http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=69  => read words "nature of fire"

http://www.dawnbible.com/1999/9911-hl.htm
Quote
"'Heaven,' he said in late July, 'is neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but a living and personal relationship with the Holy Trinity. Better to think of hell,' he explained the next week, 'as more than a physical place, as the state of those who freely and definitely separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy.'

Quote
From Hieronymus Bosch to the creators of the animated TV series "South Park," artists, writers and theologians have tried to mentally transport Christians to a miserable place called hell as a sure deterrent to sin. Early Christians tried to locate hell as a spot on the sun or a comet, but most used their imagination to keep alive the image of a Gothic torture chamber. Lately though, that image is fading, say evangelicals, as modern Americans focus less on the wages of sin and more on the uplifting message of self-help. While 70 percent of Americans say they believe in heaven, only 50 percent believe in hell.

Quote
CONCEPTS OF HELL
"The Orlando Sentinel" published the reactions of area religious leaders to this papal pronouncement, and considered other concepts, saying:

"The pontiff's remarks surprised a few area religious leaders who supported his position.

"'The pope basically reiterated standard Catholic teaching, that hell is a state, rather than a place, said the Rev. Joseph Hart of Orlando's Mary, Queen of the Universe Shrine.

"There is very little known about hell,' Hart said. 'You can't use hell as a deterrent, like the electric chair.'"

The Rev. Charles Horton of College Park Baptist Church agrees.

"'I think the pope has helped us to bring about an awareness of the fact that people make a virtual hell on earth for themselves by their choices and lifestyle,' he said. 'Hell is eternal separation from God's love. A separation from God is worse than fire.'"

For Lutherans, hell is "the logical consequence of the choices that human beings make in excluding God from our lives," said the Rev. Barry Snowden, of Epiphany Lutheran Church in Oviedo.

The concept of hell has long had a hold on the popular imagination. Dante, in the 14th century, told a story of cosmic rebellion in which Satan (Lucifer) and his angels rebelled against God, only to be cast out of heaven, and into their underworld domain.

In the 1700's, scientists thought hell might be on the sun or a comet. In the past decade, Trinity Broadcasting Network and other evangelical organizations spread tales that in Russia, a microphone lowered two miles below the surface of the earth had recorded the sound of souls in torment.

The notion of a physical hell after death predates Christianity.

For ancient Greeks, it was Hades, surrounded by the River Styx. The dead were ferried across by the boatman, Charon. Their concept of the afterlife evolved from a muddy bog to what the philosopher Plato called a place of "temporary punishment for the curably wicked and eternal punishment for the incurably wicked."
==> that looks a lot like the RC hell and purgatory....

For Greek Orthodox Christians, hell is "a separation from God, that in our exercise of free will we bring upon ourselves," said the Rev. Mark Elliott of Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Maitland. "The soul is in torment because it is separated from God."

In the Old Testament, some believe it is the underworld of Sheol, which can be translated simply as 'the grave.' Other rabbis, in the 2nd century B.C., believed it was Gehenna, named for an infamous valley south of Jerusalem where an early pagan cult sacrificed children. Gehenna was considered "a cosmic disposal site for the wicked," according to historian Alan Weinstein, author of "The Formation of Hell."

"Today, Jews don't talk much about hell from the pulpit," said Rabbi Alan Londy, of Temple Israel in Orlando.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 02:05:04 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline firstborn888

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2008, 01:40:25 PM »
Good info WW... :thumbsup:

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2008, 11:16:29 PM »
If there is already a thread for this could someone kindly direct me there?  :bgdance:

Since Universalism doesn't necessarily have a denomination (as far as I know) I was wondering where everyone fellowships, whether they keep their UR leanings to themselves, and also what version of the Bible do you use?

The Bible question is one of particular interest for me as I love my NASB. Of course now I am interested in getting one that holds closer to the original text in regards to "hell" and "eternal".

TS


I was raised in a Southern Baptist and currently do not go to any organized place at all.

I like the concordant literal version, Rotherhams emphasized and use a program I downloaded from www.scripture4all.org  that has the Hebrew and greek references in it.


Offline willieH

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 11:37:26 PM »
willieH: How-D ...TEX!   :laughing7:

Was a member of the Salvation Army for 20yrs, and 7th Day Adventist for 5... but presently (and for the last 8 years) do not attend or adhere to ANY "Church"...  :boogie:

Since Universalism doesn't necessarily have a denomination (as far as I know) I was wondering where everyone fellowships, whether they keep their UR leanings to themselves, and also what version of the Bible do you use?

First, ...I am not a "UNIVERSALIST" and do not even find a definition for it, ...but ABSOLUTELY do believe in the TRUTH of Universal Reconciliation...  :thumbsup:

Aside from that, I kind of believe differently than most here at TM...

Second, ...I - NEVER... keep quiet about the GOSPEL (which IS ...that God HAS RECONCILED ALL THINGS unto HIMSELF via the Cross of JESUS CHRIST -- Col 1:20)

As far as Bible, ...I use the KJV for 2 reasons...

(1) Specific Original word meanings can be traced in Strongs Ex Concordance lexicons... :yes:

(2) I don't have to try to remember which version I quoted from...  :dontknow:

I also find the CLT, Young's Literal, and Scofields study bible, as useful comparisions... as well as Biblegateway.com ...which also helps when comparing what differing translators might have said of a given word...

One of my favorites is the few (can't remember which they are at the moment) which translate "RA" [evil] as CALAMITY in Isaiah 45:7... and then everywhere else they translate "RA" as EVIL...  :laughing7:

Evidential to me that their translation was in accordance to their DOCTRINAL beliefs, and not TRUE to the word being translated...  :dontknow:

my  :2c:

peacE...
willieH    :handshake:

Offline Taffy

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2008, 11:49:16 PM »
yo TS, :icon_flower:
Much a heathen for many Yrs...then a Member for some maybe 10 yrs at the Old wwcg, tried the Baptists for a few weeks, to them i certainly was the Son of pedition...so that didnt last long, didnt fancy being burnt at the stake much, so left.

since, No wheres these last 10 yrs...or so,....Alone but never Lonely bud.

 Bibles..? KJV for me generally, but cross check many other versions...

 :icon_flower:



Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

martincisneros

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2008, 12:24:21 AM »
I guess my affiliation would still be Word of Faith and/or Charismatic Churches 'cause I'm more likely to hear some UR music in their recordings and 'cause that's how Christ drew me to Himself.  If I think in terms of going to Church in Fort Worth, Texas, in the absense of solid Christian Universalist alternatives that are Biblically based and Biblically solid, and easy for me to get to from where I live, then my first thought is a good Word of Faith Church.  But I'm sorta in the midst of reformulating the health and increase doctrines, getting away from indulgences based economic prosperity and putting more emphasis on 2Corinthians 8:9, the Bread and Cup, etc. 

I'm not sure if I'm either Word of Faith or Christian Universalist.  I'm thinking more in terms of using the word "Expansionism" or "Expansionist" to describe what I've been developing, in the way that Carlton Pearson's been using "Inclusion" to describe his excessively liberal and Biblically lite brand of Universalism.  My "Expansionism" would include all of the above of my beliefs, plus Postmillenialist eschatology, and some other things.  Not necessarily trying to create a new religion, but trying to distance myself from former religious tags that I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with, (Universalist, in particular,) and trying to create a new niche for my writings online in order to take the message places online that it wouldn't necessarily reach into with the old keyword labels.

My main translations are the Concordant Literal, Scarlett's New Testament, and the NASB, Updated Edition.  And I'll frequently consult Rotherham's at www.studylight.org and sometimes Young's Literal Translation.

Andromeda_Organa

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2008, 01:41:44 AM »
Lutheran here- the "grace" denomination.

Offline onlytruth

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2008, 03:03:20 AM »
pretty much did every demonation(oops i spelled that wrong hehe).ive been the last two years at a charismatic spirit filled church called global harvest(to be honest this is the same church that todd bently's wife still attends)
before everything fell apart for todd last spring, God took away the desire to attend.it might have something to do with the fact that my wife and i both had a word for leadership about this very thing.they did not want to receive it.the following sunday eli(one of todds leadership in florida)preached directly against ur.this sealed my fate and ive only been back a couple of times.
so this place is where i connect.so i appreciate you all
as for what i read-i wait for the spirit to put it on my heart-and i know He will show me
blessings everyone :icon_king:

Average_Bear

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2008, 03:07:38 AM »
Hi all,

My favorite denominations are tens, twenties, and fifties  :laughing7:

Grew up Catholic. My mom or grandfather took us to mass, dad wasn't too interested. We lost interest when I was about 10. Later, I got curious about spiritual matters, read a lot of books (like Hal Lindsey, etc.). I accepted Christ and went to Conservative Baptist church (CBA) for several years. Later, after some life changes I attended a grace type church (no particular demonination - not UR, just an emphasis on grace and Christian living). Now, I'm in AG church. :omg: I don't like it at all  :help: , but I have my reasons for going. When I leave, I'm considering hooking up with some folks of the "organic church" breed.

As for bibles, I've read through all of NIV and KJV. I recently bought a Young's Literal with hopes of reading through it all. Once you get used to the style, Young's is an awesome version to read.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 03:10:11 AM by Average_Bear »

Offline Molly

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2008, 03:29:06 AM »
Puritan.  :bigGrin:

Offline jabcat

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2008, 04:47:47 AM »
in the way that Carlton Pearson's been using "Inclusion" to describe his excessively liberal and Biblically lite brand of Universalism. 

 :ok:  still gotta get saved at some point/come through the blood of Jesus.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

ScarletWren

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2008, 06:32:13 AM »
I grew up in the Church of Christ, left it for a time and went nowhere, then went back there and took my husband and kids.  Started questioning the necessity of water baptism, searched the internet, and somehow became a calvinist for a short while.  Attended several baptist churches and then found solace and peace for awhile in a church with grace in the title, I can't believe I can't remember the actual name.  While there I became uncomfortable with the thought that God preplanned to send millions of people to hell and started reading up on universal reconciliation, something I swore at one time I would never consider, haha.  Bolt of lightning hit and I've been on a path I doubt I'll ever waver from now.  Strange doings.

I don't go to church anywhere now.  Kind of a lonely road, this, but a long sight more fulfilling and so much more at peace with my creator.

Thanks for letting me participate.

Grace be unto you.

alihaymeg

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2008, 07:21:45 AM »
Quote
Personally I think teh easiest step to UR might be atheism or perhaps some fuzzy wuzzy lifestyle like new age.
Learning is often easier than unlearning....

I hope someone with a solid background can verify or debunk my post.

For the most part I think you are correct. Although I think it depends more upon personal differences than prior church affiliation. I was raised Pentecostal Holiness which is (ET) all the way. I never personally found that explanation to fit what I knew of my God though. The message of (UR) actually makes sense. That is why I think many Atheists and Agnostics are able to accept the message of (UR) more readily than deeply involved Christians. In every major movement of the Spirit it has always been the religious leaders of the time that raised the most opposition, including the coming of the Christ. This movement may be led by those who the mainstream churches had previously written off as headed for Hell. Wouldn't that be cool?

Texas Son

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2008, 05:32:05 PM »
Thanks for all the responses! Of particular interest to me was the Bibles and concordances. I have noticed my Strongs does lean toward the KJV definitions as Brian said. I look forward to adding the Youngs Analytical Concordance to my arsenal.

I have been attending a Wesleyan church for the past 13 years. Our church in Austin has an interesting history. The youth pastor became the pastor shortly before I started atttending. He is actually Baptist in his leanings. We are the "black sheep" of the Wesleyan denomination and are barely tolerated. We chose elder rule recently, of which I am one, which is against the Wesleyan doctrine. They love us (sarcastically) when we attend the regional conference each year.

As I have mentioned in a few other threads I have told the other elders and pastor of our church that I lean towards UR. The first time I mentioned it it raised a few eyebrows. However last week the pastor and I got into a fairly deep discussion as he shared his extreme concerns about my interest in UR. I tread carefully as I do not care to cause strife or division in our church body. We recently went through that with some hardcore Calvinist.

I have always had a love for God through my Christian walk, but since I have come to know that God loves and has a plan for everyone I have had such a peace and renewed awe for my heavenly Father. Many men and women in our church have burdened hearts for loved ones that they presume are either going to hell or are already there. Understandably they have the uncertainty of a loving God that plans to roast their loves ones for eternity. I pray I see the time where God reveals His true Self and unfathomable love to the rest of the world.

Blessings!
TS

Offline rosered

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2008, 05:47:35 PM »
 
  That was  a great testimony TS. :icon_flower:
  All you you I have enjoyed hearing from on a personal level  :thumbsup:
 
  I  personally was scattered abroad ..hee hee  , been everywhere 
 and  even in the harlots body  :mshock: [prison  in unclean and hateful birds cage] Christ has set me Free ..! :cloud9:
 and am  sooooo very graetful to be   in the BODY OF CHRIST  ,  never  have  in my life known such comfort and joy in the Lord and true fellowship and had so much in common .
  I love His Word /Spirit   and have many bibles and on line bibles and references http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=
  my personal fave is Blueletter Bible   and been using it for 5  years or more http://www.blueletterbible.org/with strongs refference  . just  easier for me I reckin'
 
  you can pick the translations  on both of these sites 

  God love ya all today  and always inand Through  the Lord Jesus 
   Christ ....
 

DeeDee

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2008, 06:44:01 PM »
I was raised a Methodist (since my mother was a Methodist). I haven't been to church in a while though and can't wait for the day South Africa gets a few UR churches ( I am praying that does happen oneday). I use online bibles these days since the KJV scares me silly. I use whichever Bible version makes the verse I am reading make most sense to me.

Blessings
DeeDee

Texas Son

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Re: Curious to see what denomination most of y'all are...
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2008, 04:06:37 AM »

As for you attending a Wesleyan church, you might have to share this bad news with the pastor:
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=3304.msg34338#msg34338



That is interesting! Hmmm... I wonder what the pastor would do if I nailed this "thesis" to the door.   :laughing7: