Author Topic: What exactly happened last night???  (Read 10875 times)

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Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2011, 09:48:00 AM »
Quote from: Michelle
Or He knew before the beginning of the world what our wants and dreams would be and made at least some of them part of His plan. The Fundies have a saying that goes like this: "God doesn't want you happy, He wants you holy." This is absolutely not true. I can assure you that some of our wants and dreams are part of His perfect plan, because contrary to popular belief, He wants us to have some level of happiness in this life and He knows that people need to be motivated sometimes.
Yes.


1The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice!

 2Thou hast given him his heart's desire, and hast not withholden the request of his lips. Selah.

 3For thou preventest him with the blessings of goodness: thou settest a crown of pure gold on his head.

 4He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever and ever.

 5His glory is great in thy salvation: honour and majesty hast thou laid upon him.

 6For thou hast made him most blessed for ever: thou hast made him exceeding glad with thy countenance.

 7For the king trusteth in the LORD, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved.

--Psa 21

"Rejoice in the Lord and He shell give you the desires of your heart." Can't remember which book and verse. I rarely do. If I didn't have a disability, I wouldn't have a defective memory. This is extremely frustrating because I can hardly memorize anything and that includes scriptures. I have begged God for months to remedy to that, to cure my defective memory, but apparently the Holy Scriptures must not be high on His list since He doesn't give a damn whether I can memorize them or not. He didn't cure me. And people who can't memorize scriptures cannot do spiritual warfare. Which means that they can hardly resist temptation, demonic suggestion and stand in trials, aka easy prey for demonic spirits. I will never understand why God prevents me from being prepared for the worse. Maybe He just love when I am weak, vulnerable and fall flat on my face. And people who can't memorize scriptures can hardly minister to anyone. All I can do is send links and hope people will check them and learn by themselves. If God wants me to be an effective servant and minister, why does He keep me in a state of uselessness, unpreparedness and physical hindrances? If He really loved me, He wouldn't do this to me. Let my handicaps make me a big useless, hindered servant, instead of curing me, preparing me and using me... 

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2011, 11:36:54 AM »
Michelly, first TM is a site like no other I have visted.  They welcome those who are hurting, the abused, the misguided, those of like mind and those who are not.  We have believers from all walks of life.  I think there is a good base built upon faith who are filled with spiritual insight.  I know they have helped me.  I hope I have helped a few along the way as well.

I say this because it seems you want to talk, but don't care to listen.  When faced with suggestions you seem to meet them with resistance and arguments.  Maybe I shouldn't say anything but I think there comes a time when things need said.  If you want answers and help, it's staring you in the face.

You are very welcome here but I think it would benefit you to listen, think, and pray about some of the things you are being presented with.  I hope this doesn't sound harsh.  I know I personally care about your spiritual well being.  I would say many others do here as well.  So, please show the membership here enough respect to listen and reciprocate healthy communication.

Understood. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything. Just want to say that I talk from personal experience. If I haven't personally experienced something, I don't talk about it. That's why I sometimes get zealous in defending my point. Because my personal experience is not an opinion, a point of view or even a belief, it's personal experience and testimony. I would be insulting the Lord if I didn't stick to the facts and defend my testimony...

2 Corinthians 13:8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

No one is saying you can't have your own mind, but you must allow others to have theirs.  You can't just insult people because they don't agree with you, no matter how passionately we feel.  We can debate doctrine til we are blue in the face but that isn't helpful.  You have been indoctrinated enough.  You need a functional faith.  So, personally I won't debate doctrine with you as I see it not being fruitful.  What could be fruitful with you is getting down to the mistrust towards God behind your posts.  I think another thing that might be fruitful is finding out why you lack peace and are filled with anxiety.

For me, it's about starting there and that means going back to the basics.  Debating theology 501 with you when you are stumbling on the basics (ie God truly loves Michelle and wants the best for her)...is going to bring nothing but frustration from you and the community.

With the risk of sounding like I am trying to dictate others behavior, I hope no member here continues to debate doctrine with you.  At least not right now.  As much as you believe you know, it's not working for you.  If it was, peace, love and grace would be flowing from your posts.  That is not what I see.

Do you want a debate or do you want peace?  If you want some peace and rest for your weary soul, then you came to the right place.  If you came to buck heads with people over doctrine there are plenty of communities that embrace that.

One of the reasons I hardly trust God is I can't even entrust my family to Him. My mother and sister are still unsaved and all of my praying and begging of the last few months are not giving any result, so He clearly doesn't give a damn about them. In one of his articles, Gary said that very few people will be saved and born again in this life. We both know that punishment in this life is the lesser of the two punishments, the worst being the lake of fire. If my family is not saved in this life and end up in the lake of fire, then it'll be all God'd fault because He wouldn't have been a responsible enough Father to save them in this life, so they will get the worst of the two punishment and it'll be all His fault, for not saving them in this life, directing their steps and teaching them where they were wrong. That means they will go through unnecessary suffering in the lake of fire and all this because He didn't take His responsibilities. It's unfair and disgusting to punish people when you don't take your responsibilities. Everyone should be saved in this life so that no one would ever have to go in the lake of fire at all. If God punishes people because He didn't take His responsibilities and save them in this life, then He's an unfair, unjust and unrighteous judge. If God got everyone saved in this life, hell and the lake of fire would be totally unnecessary. He's the one who responsible for people's salvation. People should never be punished because Daddy Almighty didn't take His responsibilities. Also, if He got rid of evil and sin, hell and the lake of fire would be totally unnecessary too. No one would ever have to go in there at all. And if God creates, do and control all evil and planned everything from the start, then why punishing people for their sins at all? People are not responsible for their sins if He planned all of their sinful actions and evil deeds before the beginning of the world. People were programmed to do those things against their will to serve His divine agenda. Punishing people for doing what He planned for them when they had no control over their actions, no say in the matter is simply too sick and disgusting to contemplate. People are not sinners, they are victims. Even the most evil of all beings is a victim. Satan was created evil. He was a mankiller and a liar from the start. A tool, a puppet, a victim. God created evil, sin and willed the fall of mankind. But everyone blames Adam, Eve and Satan. And the Bible says that Satan and the fallen angels will be destroyed, when they only did what God intended to do. What's fair about that? Maybe some of you have no problem with that, but I do! The Fundamentalists and the Calvinists certainly don't. They blame everything on the victims. According to them, Satan acted independently of God, out of God's will. And they call us heretics? The true heresy is to give credits to Satan for evil and sin and say that God is not in control.   

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/TheProblemofEvil.html

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d031002.htm

Also, let's use our brains. You can't create and do evil unless you are part evil yourself. God is not 100% pure good, 100% pure righteousness and 100% pure love. If He was 100% pure love, people who cry in agony would not be met with silence, they wouldn't be ignored, abandonned and they wouldn't spend their whole mortal lives in total, ceaseless suffering, like those who have cancer or mental illness. Secondly, God is not and cannot be perfect. Perfection is the absence of evil. You can't create and do evil unless you are part evil yourself and if you are part evil yourself, you can't be perfect. If the Creator is duality, both good and evil, then He's not different and no better than His created beings. He's not different from humans and He's no better than humans. He's even worse considering the fact that He creates and do all evil. How could He ever be trusted? He's no more trustworthy than any human. In fact, considering the fact that He creates and do all evil, it would be wiser for me to put my confidence in man instead, the lesser of the two evils. The victim rather than the author.

It's even worse than that...

"In this example, we see God as the Divine Potter, the great Creator of all, insisting upon His right to do either good or evil toward His creatures, and He exercises this right all through the Scriptures." 

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

"Of the same lump. There is nothing in the basic material of the two vessels to make one different from the other—the difference lies in the design of the potter. There is no reason within themselves why one should be a lamb and the other a tiger. It is not the lamb's fault or the tiger's fault that they were made thus. Out of the same lump of clay, which God turned into humanity, He can produce in the same generation a Cain and an Abel—a Cain who is self-centered and an Abel who is full of faith—a Cain who is a murderer and an Abel who is a servant of God. Out of the same lump, out of the same kneading, He can produce a self-righteous Pharisee and a self-abnegating Publican."

Satan, Judas, Pharaoh, they were all victims of God exercising His "right" to do either good or evil toward His creatures. It's nothing but a game for Him and people are His toys. He just doesn't care how many people get hurt. He's only "exercising His right" to do good or evil toward His creatures. Just for the heck and the fun of it. "Exercising His right." What about His created beings's right not to be toys and not to be unjustly done wrong to? There is certainly no love in this. Notice that God doesn't talk about love, but "His right to do good or evil" to His created toys. Just for the heck of exercising His right.

"Yes, the same God Who made the lamb also made the tiger. The God Who made the lovely flowers also made the nettles with their stings. The God Who made the harmless worm also made the poisonous serpent. The God Who made the good, made the evil, too."

"Why be reconciled to God? We should be reconciled to God because God is responsible for evil and suffering in the world. He created it. He made the world system since creation. God chooses not to stop the evil in the world — not yet. In fact in the present era evil will grow worse and worse as we approach the moment of Christ's return (2 Timothy 3:13)."

Now ask yourself why I can't trust God...

He does evil in judgment (Daniel 9:11–14)...

Another reason why I don't trust Him. Adam and Eve were programmed to eat that fruit because He willed the fall of mankind, and God is so hypocrite, that He says to Adam and Eve: "What have you done?" And then He punished them for doing what He planned from the start. They had no control over their actions, no say in the matter. They did what they were programmed to do, what He planned for them. It's like forcing a child to lie and steal and then turn around and slap Him in the face, punishing him for something you planned all along. God certainly isn't a fair, just and righteous judge. He punishes people for things that weren't even their fault. He planned all this and the victims get the punishment. In light of all this, we can say that people will be punished only for doing what He planned from the start and for doing what He programmed them to do. An unfair, disgusting and unjust punishment. The only one who deserves punishment is God Himself. He should judge, condemn and punish Himself for creating sin and evil and planning all sinful actions and evil deeds from the start. Satan, Judas, Pharaoh, they were all punished only for doing what He planned from the start, for doing what they were programmed to do. In light of all this, how can we be sure that the Fundies and the church are wrong? There is only one step between that and eternal punishment. God is behind everything and then He blames His victims and punishes them. Ask me again why I can trust God...

"Then comes the judgment, which for most people will not be such a bad thing considering their ordinary circumstances in life."

Boy is he dead wrong about that one...

You think it can't get any worse than that? You are dead wrong!

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Drop down, you heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it. Woe to him that strives with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashions it, 'What make you?' or your work, He has no hands? Woe to him that says to his father, 'What begat you?' or to the woman, 'What have you brought forth?'" Isaiah 45:7–10

"The opposites of light/darkness, and peace/evil in this passage indicate that God is in control of everything and everyone, and that He has a purpose for each person. He is the Maker. He does "all these things."

"To paraphrase what God told Job, "I will do what I will do, when I will do it, because I am God." End of discussion."

God creates the tiger and the wolf, the murderer like Cain, the traitor like Judas and the tyran Pharaoh. But they weren't evil from the start, like Satan. Many of them became evil in their adults lives, because that's how God planned it. See what I'm getting at? You and I could could become thieves, tyrans, rapists, traitors or murderers any minute now. It might very well be part of His plan for us to attack, rape, slaughter, destroy, etc. How would you feel if one of these days, you woke up with blood on your hands because it was all part of God's plan for you to harm or murder someone at that very specific moment of your life? Wouldn't you feel sick to your stomach? You would be left to deal with the guilt and sorrow for the rest of your entire life and nothing of what God would say would ever make you feel better. Could you ever trust Him again if that ever happen? And don't tell me yes, because no one could ever cope with that. Sure He could erase your memory. That would be even worse, He would only add to the evil He did by hidding it. you think I want to be a thief, a tyran, a rapist, a traitor or a murderer. That could happen any minute now. It might very well be in His plan for me. And I would never be able to stop Him. I would be mentally, emotionally and spiritually raped and violated into doing things against my will and left to deal with the consequences for the rest of my life. Violated, polluted, overtaken by the evil He planned for me, prepared for me...

Again, ask yourself why I can't trust God.

His evil side could take over His good side anytime now. He would be an out-of-control, unstoppable enemy. We would all be deceived, harmed and destroyed. Some people talked about the end times and the return of Jesus on TV. They said that Jesus would return and totally blow a fuse. That He would turn inti a wrathful, schizophrenic, enraged, wild beast, slaughter billions of people and cover His flesh and white garment in blood. He could become extremely dangerous and He would be unstoppable. An extrenely dangerous threat to the whole species and no one would be able to stop Him. How could a being who creates and do evil could ever be trusted? How a being part evil who could blow a fuse anytime could ever be trusted?

You wanted to know about my concerns, you have them...

You care about my spiritual well-being? You want me to find peace and rest? Then I suggest you start giving me some answers. Because I am so tortured now, you have no idea...
« Last Edit: March 09, 2011, 11:58:08 AM by Michelle »

Offline jabcat

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2011, 11:49:43 AM »
You care about my spiritual well-being? You want me to find peace and rest? Then I suggest you start giving me some answers...

Michelle, who are you arguing with?

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2011, 12:40:10 PM »
Like I said Michelle, I won't debate doctrine with you.  But suffice it to say, I wouldn't agree with much of what you said.  Your anger towards God is apparent.  And for some believers that's part of the journey.

Am I concerned about your spiritual well-being?  Absolutely.  Do I have all the answers...not even close.  Do I hope that you can find the rest you so desperately need?  Yes I do.

Have I had questions similar to the ones you are asking...yes.  Have I ever had problems trusting God?  Yes.  Did I get all the answers before I found peace...nope.

All I know is this...we all have our histories.  I have told my story in parts and it's also filled with pain.  Some of that pain was inflicted by others but most was inflicted by myself.  Am I concerned about loved ones in this life and after death?  Absolutely.

What I know is this...none of us have this all worked out.  I doubt any of us know what the LoF really is and what it entails.  But, I have gained peace with knowing whatever temporal pain there is in this life or the next will be put in it's proper perspective through eternal joy of living with Christ for eternity.  I gained much peace with that.

My life came to a crisis point.  Either I was going to live by faith...true faith...not because I had everything worked out and I approved of God's methods.  Or, I was going to go serve the world and die.  I faced two options...joy/peace paved with faith...or insanity and death paved with anger, anxiety and mistrust.  By the grace of God I chose the first.

So, if you are looking to me, or anyone to give you the answers you will be greatly disappointed.  But, if you want to learn to live by faith, I know of no better community that can help that grow in you.  The first step to faith for me was a broken surrendering.  I just gave up.  I gave up trying to figure it all out and I just cried out to God.  It didn't happen over night.  But, it began a wonderful process of growth that continues to this day. 

I truly love you as a sister in Christ and I want this faith for you.  Are you not tired?  You sound exhausted. 

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2011, 03:38:07 PM »
"Your anger towards God is apparent. And for some believers that's part of the journey."

Well, what did you expect, Shawn? I just wish I could go back believing the lie of Satan being behind all the evil in the world because my relationship with Jesus was easier then. Why did He had to... And I'm sick and tired of living with all that boiling anger inside. It seems that Jesus just doesn't keep His promises. I've been praying for weeks asking to be ridden of my anger issue, but He apparently didn't do a thing about it because it's back full force. So much for, ask and you shall receive, and whatsoever you ask in your prayer, I will do it. He knows that anger is not only damaging, but also dangerous, because it's a major door opener for demonic oppression. But He just doesn't solve the problem...

"Am I concerned about loved ones in this life and after death? Absolutely. What I know is this...none of us have this all worked out.  I doubt any of us know what the LoF really is and what it entails. But, I have gained peace with knowing whatever temporal pain there is in this life or the next will be put in it's proper perspective through eternal joy of living with Christ for eternity. I gained much peace with that."

If my mother and sister are sent there because He didn't take His responsibility and saved them in this life, it'll be all His fault. Only He can save them and teach them to live better lives. And if they are sent there, I'm going in there with them. And God better let me go with them. I want to suffer with my mother and my sister and be by their side. It's my choice. If He REALLY is love, He will let me go in there with them. If He cannot understand that, then He doesn't know the first thing about love. Might as well not have died on the cross...

"My life came to a crisis point.  Either I was going to live by faith...true faith...not because I had everything worked out and I approved of God's methods.  Or, I was going to go serve the world and die.  I faced two options...joy/peace paved with faith...or insanity and death paved with anger, anxiety and mistrust.  By the grace of God I chose the first.

So, if you are looking to me, or anyone to give you the answers you will be greatly disappointed.  But, if you want to learn to live by faith, I know of no better community that can help that grow in you.  The first step to faith for me was a broken surrendering.  I just gave up.  I gave up trying to figure it all out and I just cried out to God.  It didn't happen over night.  But, it began a wonderful process of growth that continues to this day."

Thanks for the advice, but It's not that easy, Shawn. It's just not that easy. Maybe it was for you, but not for me. One of my gifts of the Holy Spirit is the gift of mercy. There are too many people suffering all over the world and it's driving me crazy. If I didn't have that disability, if I wasn't handiccaped, if I could take a job, if I didn't have a tight budget, if I could orient myself and travel, then I'd be able to alleviate the suffering of countless people and I would have money to give for the sick and the poor. But hindrances is all there is in my life. That's all God filled my life with, hindrances. He made me a totally useless servant. I can't help anyone, can't make myself useful, I cannot alleviate the pain of others. I can't do anything useful. I'm cursed. Don't you get that? I can't make a difference in other people's lives. Heck, I can't even improve my own life. Whatever I do, I'll always be the most useless servant of Jesus Christ. And all this because He won't remove the hindrances and ACTUALLY use me...

"I truly love you as a sister in Christ and I want this faith for you."   

Well, you can at least TRY to convince Him to give it to me. Our pathetic, weak, human faith is nothing. We have no faith of our own, just like we have no strength of our own. If He won't give me HIS faith, it's not like I can force Him into it. I have neglected my prayer life a lot these past few days, because like it happened so many times in my life, it just seem that my prayer fall upon deaf ears. So what's the point of trying again? Everything feels hopeless. I don't even know how to really communicate with Him and build a better relationship with Him. I've never had any kind of relationship. I just suck at it. Thanks for caring. I just wish I could go back to that state of pure, perfect love and peace that I walked in for three days straight... until God cut the juice...

"Are you not tired? You sound exhausted."

You can do that too? I thought I was the only one. I too can pick up vibes from people just by reading what they write. I never told anyone about it, because when I tell people about my differences, they call me a freak. Exhausted? That's all I ever am now, exhausted. So exhausted... :sigh:

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2011, 03:49:56 PM »
You care about my spiritual well-being? You want me to find peace and rest? Then I suggest you start giving me some answers...

Michelle, who are you arguing with?

No arguing, James. Shawn asked me about my mistrust and my anxiety, I gave him an answer. There is no arguing.

Offline CHB

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2011, 04:54:16 PM »
Hi Michelle,

Sometimes I ask God why about things that happen in this world but I am thankful I haven't gotten to the point that you have gotten. It must be really frustrating and mind boggling for someone to think the things you think about God. I can only imagine what you are enduring.

Personally, just knowing that God is in control of all situations and that he is working it all out for the best of mankind,...even though it might not seem like it at this time,...brings me peace of mind.  Even though we have to deal with all the evil in the world and in our own lives there will come a time when all of this will be gone and only good will remain. This is what I try to focus on.

Michelle, God gave us good and bad for our learning,...the tree of good and evil,...we are experiencing and seeing the bad in this life, from which is making us sons of God which is the good. So, in the end the good wins!!! You are only focusing on the now, {bad} shouldn't we look to the end result and thank God for the good?

CHB

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2011, 05:45:17 AM »
Hi Michelle,

Sometimes I ask God why about things that happen in this world but I am thankful I haven't gotten to the point that you have gotten. It must be really frustrating and mind boggling for someone to think the things you think about God. I can only imagine what you are enduring.

Personally, just knowing that God is in control of all situations and that he is working it all out for the best of mankind,...even though it might not seem like it at this time,...brings me peace of mind.  Even though we have to deal with all the evil in the world and in our own lives there will come a time when all of this will be gone and only good will remain. This is what I try to focus on.

Michelle, God gave us good and bad for our learning,...the tree of good and evil,...we are experiencing and seeing the bad in this life, from which is making us sons of God which is the good. So, in the end the good wins!!! You are only focusing on the now, {bad} shouldn't we look to the end result and thank God for the good?

CHB

This is seasoned with much wisdom.  I would have to say my views are identical to this concerning "why bad things happen".  I try to focus on the good, the beautiful, and the loving things in this life.  I fill my mind with such things.  I have done the other...I have been angry and confused.  And Michelle, I don't have any special powers but I can put myself in your shoes.  I know exhausted when I hear it or read it.  Do you even sleep?  I was up last night pulling a 24 hour shift so I have an excuse.   :bigGrin:

What this boils down to is asking ourselves about the fruit of our thought life.  Is it working for you?  Is it a functional faith or do you wax and wane between this trembling fearful love of God and this anger.

I really can't be your therapist, but let me offer a possible insight.  I don't think you are mad at God.  You have unforgiveness which is rotting you from the inside out.  You have unresolved pain which is killing you.  God is just an easy place for you to project.  There is little doubt in my mind that you suffer from a crippling anxiety disorder.  Some of that might be genetic but I think much was learned through abuse and pain.

You are starting at the wrong place...you want all your questions answered.  That's not how this will work for you.  I highly suggest seeking a professional Christian counselor.  Don't take this like I think you are "crazy".  I don't.  But, I do think you are going to need some help processing some things.  Once that happens you will start asking the right questions.

Offline Lefein

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2011, 06:55:16 AM »
Michelle, I am one of Jesus' little brothers.

I have a question, why are you so afraid?  Perfect Love casts out fear, yet you are so afraid.  This surely means that God has not invaded you, because you have not let him in as the gentleman who is knocking on the door, requesting to come in, and cast out that fear which keeps you so imprisoned, and so angry at him.

Please do not be afraid anymore.  Fear, go away in the name of Christ.
CLV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred, it rouses up quarrels, Yet love covers over all transgressions.
KJV: Proverbs 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2011, 07:02:34 AM »
"And Michelle, I don't have any special powers but I can put myself in your shoes."

Picking up vibes from people just be reading what they say has nothing to do with special powers. I don't know why I have this ability, I just do. I can tell how people feel or pick up their tone of voice just by reading what they say, even if they are not explicit about it.   

"I know exhausted when I hear it or read it.  Do you even sleep?  I was up last night pulling a 24 hour shift so I have an excuse."

That's what I said. You have the same ability. You can read people in what they write. Well, you get the picture. Do I even sleep? Sure I do. During the day. I'm a night owl, most of the time. It's so quiet at night. I love to study the TM material all night, between prayer and a Bible study. I'm exhausted these days because I'm dealing with too many issues and too many emotions at the same time. That's another I should ask God about. I'm curious as to why our spirits have such an impact on our physical bodies, why issues and emotions the spirit deals with result in physical exhaustion. Unless it's another lie or illusion fabricated by the carnal mind. What do I know. Maybe the physical body is never exhausted and it's only a percetion. Is the spirit really attached, linked to the flesh body? Do they really affect each others? I have also noticed that lack of exercise and good food for the physical body has an impact on the spirit. So possibly it works both ways. If only the Bible told us more about these things, but no. Jesus left us no Biblical instructions and teachings on how God created our bodies and spirits, how they work and how to remain healthy physically, mentally and spiritually. And all the teachings and instructions we have on that, we have just no way to know if they truly are from Jesus because they don't come from the Bible but from secular material like books written by just about anybody. Many lying spirits and ascended masters are walking around just waiting to deceive people. Many books are written by new-agers, and here's a good word of advice, stay away from that stuff. There are deceivers and liars everywhere. Even some so-called "Christian Universalist" groups spread false teachings. Like the CUA who teach Theosis. That eventually humans will become gods or divine. It's an heresy and a satanic lie.

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

All teachings about humans becoming gods or divine are false teachings. Those people at CUA are false Christian Universalists. Stay away from any group that teaches Theosis (divinization). They even lie about where the teaching comes from:

http://www.christianuniversalist.org/faq.html#faith

"We see salvation as more of a process of growth and transformation of the soul to become one with the Christ Spirit, rather than being saved from God's anger and the threat of punishment. This concept, called "theosis" (Greek for divinization) is the original teaching of the Bible and most of the early church fathers about human nature and destiny, which was mostly lost in the Western churches (Catholic and Protestant) but has been retained to some limited degree in the Eastern Orthodox churches.

Our strong belief in divinization is only one way in which the CUA seeks to return to the teachings and practices of the early church. In general, we seek to educate Christians about the prevailing beliefs of the apostolic and patristic era of Christian history, and the great work of early systematic theologians such as Origen of Alexandria. We wish to return to the roots of Christianity rather than blindly accepting the later distortions of Augustine and Roman Church theology, and the errors that were passed on into Protestantism. The Universalist Gospel has been taught by many Christians during the past 2000 years, and is a major historical faith tradition."

True Christian Universalism like the one taught here at TM has nothing to do with such false teachings, like Theosis (divinization). I've read many of the TM articles and none of them talked about that kind of stuff. If you ask me, the CUA and the likes of them are new-agers disguise as Christian Universalists, or new-agers with some kind of universalist belief. But they are to be avoid. They are being deceived by acended masters (fallen angels)...

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/universalism-refuted.htm

"There is a Universalism taught in what is commonly called the “New Age Movement.” They speak of a cosmic Christ, an ascended Master, one among many other ascended masters. Among the names given as ascended masters by these various New Age groups are: Sanat Kumara, Jesus, Kuthumi, Lanello, Clara Louise, Kuan, Yin Afra, Igor, Venus, El Morya, Lanto, Paul the Venetian, Serapis Bey, Hilarion, Nada, Saint Germain, and Maha Chohan.

This is NOT the universalism of Tentmaker Ministries, or true Christian Universalism. We have nothing to do with the various forms of the New Age Movement. There is only one Name under heaven by which one must be saved as far as Gary Amirault and Tentmaker Ministries goes -- that name is Jesus the Christ (English), Yeshua Ha Machiach (Hebrew), Iesus Christos (Greek). There are no “ascended masters” as far as we are concerned. Everything we believe centers around the Father of Creation, His Son Whom the Father sent to redeem the world and His Holy Spirit, Whom Jesus sent to “lead us into all truth.”     

The Cosmic Christ/ascended master he's talking about is a false Christ and goes by the name of Sonanda. God sent me a warning in the form of a dream. There are at least two dozens of ascended masters, maybe more. The most dangerous and powerful ones are Sonanda and Metatron. They are superior in rank and power. That's all I can tell you from what I've gathered from that dream/warning from God...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 07:12:48 AM by Michelle »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2011, 07:21:21 AM »
I would like to have some of what you got a hold of.  :laughing7:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2011, 08:43:21 AM »
Michelle, that might be the calmest most well reasoned post you have written since coming here.

A few things I can give an educated opinion about is the human body and it's connection with the thought life.  Taking care of the body is one very helpful component to taking care of the soul which seems to effect the spiritual life.  People wear their mentality through their physical being.  For instance, with something like Fibromyalgia, it's mainly a disease of females.  These afflicted individuals tend to have a great deal of depression and insomnia.  They wear their stress with physical pain.  At one time, due to physician ignorance about the disease it was believed by many to be fabricated.  But, we know that different organ systems such as the intestinal track have some receptors similar to the brain...ie serotonin.  It's reasonable to believe that the muscle pain that these individuals feel is a direct result of their depressive state.  Skin problems, gastric ulcers, memory, cognitive abilities, viral flare ups, the immune system etc are all effected by not only mind state, but nutrition and quality sleep.

So, when approached by someone like yourself with a painful history, physical, and mental symptoms it's important that I address multiple areas.  If you can get someone on a regular exercise and sleep regimen that is a terrific physical base with which to build.  If they suffer from obesity, helping them to lose weight and decrease cortisol levels is very helpful.  I truly believe it's easier to approach emotional trauma when the body is healthy.  Then Christian counseling, or some sort of support group is so essential.  The socialization alone is extremely helpful.  We are not meant to be locked up away from people.  But, being able to express yourself, and work things out in a safe environment is extremely beneficial.  Retraining our brains not to obsess, depress or oppress doesn't happen over night but I assure you it can be done. 

This is a solid base in which our spiritual life has the best chance to flourish.  I don't know how it works but our body, soul and spirit are intimately connected.  When one is sick, other parts are likely to suffer.

Prayer, Bible study and worship time is so crucial to my mental health for the day.  Staying balanced in my life doesn't come naturally to me.  But, God has been working on me for quite sometime.  I don't know how God did it but he just seemed to remove the questions.  The best way I can describe it is a child like faith with an adult understanding.  I study and try to work out things but it doesn't bother me like it used to when I can't work it out right away.  I live in the knowing that I am in the hands of God.  Even if trouble enters into my life he will use it to better me.  I know that any suffering I feel or the world feels will be brought into it's proper perspective when we are with him.  I take great comfort in that.  I must live in that, because if I let the anxieties of the world overwhelm me I am miserable.  Today I wish to live in his rest, and by the grace of God I will.

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2011, 09:03:23 AM »
This is extremely interesting:

http://www.danielrevelationbiblestudies.com/mistaken_id.htm

Along with that:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

So many Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled. The Fundies should definitely catch on on this one. They always have a "we're in the end times" mentality. Even if it was true, it's unhealthy to dwell on these things. I really don't need to add that to all the issues I'm working on...

And thank you very much for the infos and the advices, Shawn...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 09:20:20 AM by Michelle »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2011, 09:49:38 AM »
This is extremely interesting:

http://www.danielrevelationbiblestudies.com/mistaken_id.htm

Along with that:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

So many Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled. The Fundies should definitely catch on on this one. They always have a "we're in the end times" mentality. Even if it was true, it's unhealthy to dwell on these things. I really don't need to add that to all the issues I'm working on...

And thank you very much for the infos and the advices, Shawn...

What are you really looking for in the way of information on what is it that you are disgruntled about? Or better, what do you want to hear? For me, and I have not read all, but what I have rushed over, it is quite like a saber fight, and you deem the upper hand of knowledge that your opponent is in lacking. It would seem to me you are fighting what we, here, believe to be truth, and you argue, debate, or post that we, here on this site lack what you are trying to convey. You have the answeres and no matter what we may counter we are incorrect and you are right. Who are you?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2011, 10:38:49 AM »
Still not convinced that the Vatican is the whore of Babylonia? Not only do they wear purple and scarlet, they borrowed sun worshipping from the Azteks and introduced it into the Vatican. You should do research on Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Semiramis and Tammuz are the fake Mary and fake baby Jesus of the Roman Catholic Church. And most Catholics don't even know about this. The Vatican christianized pagan doctrines and rituals, hell is one of them. The king Nimrod, Semiramis' husband is one of the founders of Freemasonry, maybe even the main one. And for those who don't already know it, Freemasonry = Satanism. Semiramis was a queen who, to control the people, made them believe she had been impregnated by some divine power and that her son was a god. She came up with a fake trinity Nimrod/Semiramis/Tammuz. It's obvious that their main goal was to destroy Christianity. Because of them, many atheists or pagans think that Christianity is a false religion, plagiarized. Read Ezekiel 8 and check these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiramis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz_(deity)

Also, read the book of Exodus.

Exodus 5:

7 Ye shall no more give the people straw to make brick, as heretofore: let them go and gather straw for themselves.

8 And the tale of the bricks, which they did make heretofore, ye shall lay upon them; ye shall not diminish ought thereof: for they be idle; therefore they cry, saying, Let us go and sacrifice to our God.

14 And the officers of the children of Israel, which Pharaoh's taskmasters had set over them, were beaten, and demanded, Wherefore have ye not fulfilled your task in making brick both yesterday and to day, as heretofore?

16 There is no straw given unto thy servants, and they say to us, Make brick: and, behold, thy servants are beaten; but the fault is in thine own people.

17 But he said, Ye are idle, ye are idle: therefore ye say, Let us go and do sacrifice to the LORD.

18 Go therefore now, and work; for there shall no straw be given you, yet shall ye deliver the tale of bricks.

19 And the officers of the children of Israel did see that they were in evil case, after it was said, Ye shall not minish ought from your bricks of your daily task.

It all started with the Pharaohs, masonry, slavery, tyranny and occultism and it can be found in the Bible...

"Satan and Masonry have the exact same goals. The secret goal of Masonry is to subjugate the world for Masonry, and be like God. Satan 'sold' this same lie (you are a God) to Eve in Eden, and he sold this same lie to the Masons."

"Ex-33 degree Mason Jim Shaw says; "The Blue Lodge Mason is taught that the "G" in the basic Masonic symbol represents God. Later on, he is told that it represents "deity". Later still, he is told that it represents "geometry". In reality, this letter represents the "generative principle," the Sun-god and, thus, the worshipped phallus, the male "generative principle..." In its position (along with the square and compass) on the east wall over the chair (throne) of the Worshipful Master, it is the representation of the Sun, thus of the Sun-god, Osiris.  Its earthly meaning, then, is of the sacred phallus; its cosmic meaning is of the Sun, worshipped since antiquity by pagans while facing the East. Reference, book: The Deadly Deception", page 144"

What does that tell you? Both the Vatican and the Freemasons are into sun worshipping. Mmm, what are the odds, huh?

"Masons have mixed idolatry, paganism, the occult, Gnosticism, Kabala, fertility cults, Satanism, spiritualism, demonology, and put it into a blender and come up with the Masonic religion. It is not of God!  It is a false religion; the Harlot of Babylon. Masons say they offer new candidates "the light". The light they are actually giving is: Lucifer. The Christian Bible says that Satan walks to and fro on this earth masquerading as an "angel of light", that many might be deceived." 
 
"Paine, like Franklin, was a Deist.  He believed in one God, but rejected all religions, saying:  "My own mind is my own church." He also maintained an interested in Freemasonry. His pamphlet, Origin Of Free-Masonry, proposed that Masonry's embodiment of the sun worship of ancient Druidism was a legitimate alternative to Christianity. He notes that Freemasonry's god, "...Osiris and Isis, theologically represented the Supreme Being and universal Nature..."

The ancient egyptian fake trinity of Osiris, Isis and Horus were borrowed from the ancient mesopotamia's first fake trinity with Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz.

The Vatican is the whore of Babylonia. The proofs are everywhere and can easily be found on the Internet...

Some Fundies who are not very bright, think that our doctrine of UR is of the Freemasons:

"Masonic heresy of Universality

The Masonic heresy of Universality raises a more serious question: What "god" is this that allows acceptance of the followers of Baal and these other pagan deities as brethren? This is certainly not the God of the Bible. Another 180-degree reversal of what is taught in Scripture....

Don't think for a moment that when Masons refer to the Supreme Architect of the Universe or God, they are referring to Yahweh or His Son Jesus."

*Sarcastic* Yeah, right. Because we worship Satan, ascended masters and practice occultism, witchcraft and idolatry... Not very bright indeed... They even say it wrong. It's Universalism, not Universality...

The ful article is there:

Christians Beware - of Freemasonry: http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm

Never doubt it. The Vatican is indeed the whore of Babylonia...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 12:42:23 PM by Michelle »

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2011, 11:16:15 AM »
This is extremely interesting:

http://www.danielrevelationbiblestudies.com/mistaken_id.htm

Along with that:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

So many Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled. The Fundies should definitely catch on on this one. They always have a "we're in the end times" mentality. Even if it was true, it's unhealthy to dwell on these things. I really don't need to add that to all the issues I'm working on...

And thank you very much for the infos and the advices, Shawn...

What are you really looking for in the way of information on what is it that you are disgruntled about? Or better, what do you want to hear? For me, and I have not read all, but what I have rushed over, it is quite like a saber fight, and you deem the upper hand of knowledge that your opponent is in lacking. It would seem to me you are fighting what we, here, believe to be truth, and you argue, debate, or post that we, here on this site lack what you are trying to convey. You have the answeres and no matter what we may counter we are incorrect and you are right. Who are you?

I never said that you were incorrect. I don't say that. Just because I disagree doesn't mean that you are incorrect. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'm incorrect either. When I talk about my testimony, I know that I'm right in the things I say. I'm dealing with some issues, right now, Micah. That might not be your case, but Shawn and James have been nice to me while all you do is attack me because I disagree with some of the things you said. You show no compassion. When you have answered my posts on Bible atrocities, you bluntly told me that the compassion "of our natural mind" is quite useless in our regeneration and growth in the Spirit, as if compassion wasn't compassion, that we had to forsake our common sense (tell that to those who took part in the Crusades or so many religious wars) and that people had nothing to do with the outcome, as if we didn't matter when in fact He cares enough about our happiness in this life to give us some of the things we ask for and even not force things upon us when we ask Him not to like He didn't force me into marriage and to top it all you tried to force on me your belief that He always force things on people when that's not even true. I can testify of that. I'm going through a hard time and am in a learning process just like everyone else on this planet. It's not easy for me, especially considering everything I've been put through in the last few months. So don't take this the wrong way, but please, lay off my back. If you want to have a nice conversation, okay. But if you want to be rude, then please, just don't talk to me.

Sincerely,

Michelle.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 11:29:40 AM by Michelle »

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2011, 12:12:47 PM »
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html#101

"IMPORTANT FACTS

The following are only a few of the reasons why Sheol-Hadees in the Old Testament denotes a condition of temporal punishment:

1 Hell is in this world. The Lowest Hell is on earth. Deut. xxxii:22,24,25. "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest Hell (Sheol--Hadees) and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains." See Jonah ii:2; Rev. vi:8.

2 Hence David, after having been in Hell, was delivered from it. Ps. xxx:3; II Sam. xx:5,6. "O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave; thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid. The sorrows of Hell (Sheol--Hadees) compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me," so that there is escape from Hell. Ps. xviii:5,6; cxvi:3; lxxxvi:12,13; Rev. xx:13; Ps. xvii:5, xxx:3.

3 Jonah was in the fish only seventy hours, and declared he was in hell forever. He escaped from Hell. Jon. ii:2, 6: "Out of the belly of Hell (Sheol--Hadees) cried I, and thou heardest my voice, earth with her bars was about me forever." Even an eternal Hell lasted but three days.

4 It is a place where God is, and, therefore, must be an instrumentality of mercy. Ps. cxxxix:8: "If I make my bed in Hell (Sheol--Hadees) behold thou art there."

5 Men having gone into it are redeemed from it. I Sam. ii:6: "The Lord killeth and maketh alive; he bringeth down to the grave (Sheol--Hadees) and bringeth up."

6 Sheol is precisely the same word as Saul. If it meant Hell would any Hebrew parent have called his child Sheol? Think of calling a boy Hell!

7 Nowhere in the Old Testament does the word Sheol, or its Greek equivalent, Hadees, ever denote a place or condition of suffering after death; it either means literal death or temporal calamity. This is clear as we consult the usage.

8 Jacob wished to go there. Gen.xxxviii:35: "I will go down into the grave (Sheol--Hadees) unto my son mourning."

9 If the word means a place of endless punishment, then David was a monster. Ps. lv:15: "Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into Sheol--Hadees."

10 Job desired to go there; xiv:13: "Oh that thou wouldst hide me in Sheol--Hadees."

11 Hezekiah expected to go there. Isa. xxxviii:10: "I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of Sheol--Hadees."

12 Korah, Dathan and Abiram (Numbers xvi:30-33) not only went there, "but their houses, and goods, and all that they owned," "and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into Sheol--Hadees, and the earth closed upon them; and they perished from among the congregation."

13 It is in the dust. Job xvii:19: "They shall go down to the bars of Sheol--Hadees, when our rest together is in the dust."

14 It has a mouth, is in fact the grave. See Ps. cxli:7: "Our bones are scattered at Sheol's--Hadees' mouth, as when one cutteth and cleaveth wood upon the earth."

15 The overthrow of the King of Babylon is called Hell. Isa. xiv:9-15, 22-23: "Hell (Sheol--Hadees) from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming; it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from the thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave and the noise of thy viols; the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. For I will rise up against them saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord. I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water; and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts." All this imagery demonstrates temporal calamity, a national overthrow as the signification of the word Hell.

16 The captivity of the Jews is called Hell. Isa. v:13-14: "Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge; and their honorable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst. Therefore Sheol--Hadees hath enlarged herself and opened her mouth without measure; and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it."

17 Temporal overthrow is called Hell. Ps. xlix:14: "Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in Sheol--Hadees, from their dwelling." Ezek.xxxii:26-27: And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to Sheol--Hadees, with their weapons of war, and they have laid their swords under their heads." Men are in hell with their swords under their heads. This cannot mean a state of conscious suffering.

18 All men are to go there. No one can escape the Bible Hell, (Sheol--Hadees) Ps. lxxxix:48.

19 There is no kind of work there. Eccl. ix:10.

20 Christ's soul was in Hell (Sheol--Hadees) Acts ii:27-28.

21 No one in the Bible ever speaks of Hell (Sheol--Hadees) as a place of punishment after death.

22 It is a way of escape from punishment. Amos vii:2.

23 The inhabitants of Hell (Sheol--Hadees) are eaten of worms, vanish and are consumed away. Job. vii:9-24. Ps. xlix:14.

24 Hell (Sheol--Hadees) is a place of rest. Job xvii:6.

25 It is a realm of unconsciousness. Ps. vi:5. Is xxxviii:18. Eccl. ix:10.

26 All men will be delivered from this Hell (Sheol Hadees). Hos. xiii:17.

27 This Hell (Sheol--Hadees) is to be destroyed. Hos xiii:14: "Oh grave I will be thy destruction." I Cor.xv:55: "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" Rev. xx:13-14: "And death and Hell delivered up the dead which were in them, and death and Hell were cast into the lake of fire."

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html#102

"THE OLD TESTAMENT REPUDIATES THE HEATHEN DOCTRINE

At the time these declarations were made, and universally accepted by the Hebrews, the surrounding nations all held entirely different doctrines. Egypt, Greece, Rome, taught that after death there is a fate in store for the wicked that exactly resembles that taught by so-called orthodox Christians. But the entire Old Testament is utterly silent on the subject, teaching nothing of the sort, as the sixty-four passages we have quoted, the only texts containing the word Hell, show, and as the critics of all churches admit. And yet "Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians": (Acts vii:22) who believed in a world of torment after death. If Moses knew all about this Egyptian doctrine, and did not teach it to his followers, what is the unavoidable inference?

Dr. Strong says, that not only Moses, but "every Israelite who came out of Egypt, must have been fully acquainted with the universally recognized doctrine of future rewards and punishments." And yet Moses is utterly silent on the subject.

Dr. Thayer remarks: "Is it possible to imagine a more conclusive proof against the divine origin of the doctrine? If he had believed it to be of God, if he had believed in endless torments as the doom of the wicked after death, and had received this as a revelation from heaven, could he have passed it over in silence? He knew whence the monstrous dogma came, and he had seen enough of Egypt already, and would have no more of her cruel superstitions; and so he casts this out, with her abominable idolatries, as false and unclean things."

In addition to the passages already quoted, the word Sheol--Hadees is rendered Hell in the following texts: Job. xi:7-8; Ps. cxxxix:8; xviii:5; lxxxvi:13; cxvi:3; Prov. xv:11; xxiii:14; xxvii:20; Isa. xxviii:15-18; lvii:9; Ezek. xxxi:16-17; Jon ii:2; Amos ix:2; Hab. ii:5.

We believe we have recorded every passage in which the word occurs. Suppose the original word stood, and we read Sheol or Hadees in all the passages, instead of Hell, wouldany unbiased reader regard it as conveying the idea of a place or state of endless torment after death, such as the English word Hell is also generally supposed to denote? Such a doctrine was never held by the ancient Jews, until after the Babylonish captivity, during which they acquired it of the heathen. All scholars agree that Moses never taught it, and that it is not contained in the Old Testament.

Thus not one of the sixty-four passages containing the only word rendered Hell in the entire Old Testament, teaches any such thought as is commonly supposed to be contained in that"

Babylonia... That explains a lot... Eternal torment is of the harlot of Babylonia...

Please, Jesus, wake the Fundies up... My poor beloved brother, Thomas... :HeartThrob: :sigh:
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 12:41:16 PM by Michelle »

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2011, 02:48:29 PM »
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html#103

"ORTHODOX" AND HEATHEN VIEWS IDENTICAL

"Now do popular Christian descriptions resemble anything in the Old Testament? Do they not exactly copy the heathen description? Whence came these ideas? They are not found in the Old Testament. And yet the world was full of them when Christ came.

Jeremy Taylor, of the English Church, says: "The bodies of the damned shall be crowded together in hell, like grapes in a wine-press, which press one another till they burst; every distinct sense and organ shall be assailed with its own appropriate and most exquisite sufferings."

Calvin describes it: "Forever harrassed with a dreadful tempest, they shall feel themselves torn asunder by an angry God, and transfixed and penetrated by mortal stings, terrified by the thunderbolts of God, and broken by the weight of his hand, so that to sink into any gulf would be more tolerable than to stand for a moment in these terrors."

Johnathan Edwards said: "The world will probably be converted into a great lake or liquid globe of fire, in which the wicked shall be overwhelmed, which will always be in tempest, in which they shall be tossed to and fro, having no rest day or night, vast waves and billows of fire continually rolling over their heads, of which they shall forever be full of a quick sense within and without; their heads, their eyes, their tongues, their hands, their feet, their loins, and their vitals, shall forever be full of a glowing, melting fire, fierce enough to melt the very rocks and elements; and, also, they shall eternally be full of the most quick and lively sense to feel the torments; not for one minute, not for one day, not for one age, not for two ages, not for a hundred ages, nor for ten thousand millions of ages, one after another, but forever and ever, without any end at all, and never to be delivered.'

And Spurgeon uses this language even in our own days: "When thou diest, thy soul will be tormented alone: that will be a hell for it; but at the day of judgment thy body will join thy soul, and then thou will have twin hells, thy soul sweating drops of blood, and thy body suffused with agony. In fire exactly like that which we have on earth thy body will lie, asbestos-like, forever unconsumed, all thy veins roads for the feet of pain to travel on, every nerve a string on which the devil shall forever play his diabolical tune of Hell's unutterable Lament."

These horrible ideas were not obtained from the Old Testament, and yet they were fully believed by Jew and Pagan when Christ came. Whence came these views? If the New Testament teaches them, then Christ must have borrowed them from uninspired heathen. What does the New Testament teach concerning Hell?

The Jews of the time of Christ had abandoned the Old Testament teachings concerning retribution. They had made void the word of God by their traditions. How did they come to change their views?"

Praise the Lord that I'm free from all that crap, that abomination of a false doctrine. This is just so sick and unhealthy that I am at a loss of words to describe how much this is sick and unhealthy. Pressed like grapes until you burst, burned, roasted, stinged, terrorized, tortured. *Snort* What do you know. They forgot skinned alive. Maybe they'll come up with that next. From what I've heard, hell was first a cold place with blue demons. Then it was a hot place with red demons. What's next, huh? Hell will turn green with rainbow-colored demons? LOL. They don't even know what hell really looks like. None of us do. They need to wake up and realize that it is redemptive and that there is no such thing as "endless" punishment. A punishment by definition must serve a purpose and cannot be endless. If it's endless and doesn't serve a purpose, it's not punishment but sick and sadistic torture...



« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 03:01:32 PM by Michelle »

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2011, 12:12:26 AM »
This is extremely interesting:

http://www.danielrevelationbiblestudies.com/mistaken_id.htm

Along with that:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

So many Bible prophecies have already been fulfilled. The Fundies should definitely catch on on this one. They always have a "we're in the end times" mentality. Even if it was true, it's unhealthy to dwell on these things. I really don't need to add that to all the issues I'm working on...

And thank you very much for the infos and the advices, Shawn...

You are very welcome Michelle.  If you ever need a hand with something just PM me.  I am always glad to help.

Offline thinktank

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2011, 01:26:03 AM »
Never doubt it. The Vatican is indeed the whore of Babylonia...
Michelle

But they have not denied Jesus as the Son of God. I think the vatician and/r catholic church is one of the churches in the book of revelation, the one that speaks of offerings to Jezebel. According to saint Saint Malachy there is one more pope after Benedict, who will be the last pope. This got me thinking that either the last pope is the false prophet with 2 horns, or the church gets destroyed or broken up, perhaps due to political or spiritual movement. Perhaps the people will demand the end of the vatician and no longer thinks it's biblical and are willing to let go of it's traddition. Anyone interested should read the prophecies themselves, as I have only glimpsed upon it, and may have incorect information.

Offline Nathan

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2011, 01:34:38 AM »
Quote from: Michelle
I want so bad to be perfect to Him and for Him.

Hi,

I'm afraid that isn't going to happen as long as you are in the flesh. No one is perfect in this life, if we were we wouldn't need Jesus Christ.

CHB

But if I was, I would never disappoint Him or hurt Him ever again. I would never have any sin and I would be everything He wants me to be. And if perfect people don't need Jesus, then why do people who live in heaven need Him once they are perfect?

This is what Adam and Eve thought. Hey we are perfect beings, we don't need God anymore, we will rule by ourselves. This world is a demonstration of what life is like without God.

That's not what I meant at all. Don't twist my words. I don't think I don't need God and I certainly don't want to rule. I'm a follower, not a leader. That's why I hope I won't be chosen to rule with Him in the millenial kingdom (if that doctrine is true). I would give my crown to someone else. The thought of so many responsibilities and thousands of people to take care of makes me shudder. I prefer to serve and follow rather than lead and what's the point of ruling yourself if it seperates you from God? Adam and Eve weren't very bright if you ask me. What I was saying is, I wish I was perfect so I would never disappoint Him or hurt Him ever again, because everytime I do, I hate myself and I hurt too. Also, I wish I was perfect because if I was, I would be everything He wants me to be, so He would always be pleased with me and we would both be happy. And people living in heaven are perfect and they still need Him. Everyone needs God. Those who pretend that they don't are either lying or spiritually dead aka unsaved...

But Michelle, God doesn't see us like "we" see us.  Because of Jesus, God sees us through his perfection, not through our limitation . ..that's what makes all of this so crazy awesome.  You "become" a leader through the power of his spirit.  He created this world, you don't think he could transform you from a follower into a leader?  That's what makes the cross so great.  It fills in the gap between my inability and his completness. 

Offline reFORMer

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2011, 06:44:19 AM »
Never doubt it. The Vatican is indeed the whore of Babylonia...
One problem with making the Roman Church Mother of Wh---- is it isn't "mystical" or "secret" in substance.  A secret is psychological, in the mind.  This topic is better understood by examining the parallel of Israel's history when they were condemned into captivity to Babylon.  (The same process is traced in the time of the early church, already apostate when it had been identified as "The Church of the Bishops".)

Another problem is this explanation is at least part of how Protestant and Independent "Churches" brush off onto others what should convict themselves of the same sin.  You can hardly blame the Roman Catholic bureauchracy and ignore ancient Israel, first in line before it, and the subsequent sects, including todays staged religious shows in steeple houses that usurp the ministry of the body of Christ.  It is Institutional Christianity (and Judaism) which most clearly fits the description.  Men have intercourse with institutions for reward and positions of Gentile authority.  Like the bricks of Babel, they are made the same as one another by conforming to something that doesn't exist but in their imaginations.  God builds with living stones.  Instead of the hierarchies of religious systems, authority in the kingdom of God is by direct relationship to God.  Without other mediators, only direct communion with God, is how the realm where God reigns progresses.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 07:39:58 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline micah7:9

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2011, 07:24:50 AM »
Never doubt it. The Vatican is indeed the whore of Babylonia...
One problem with making the Roman Church Mother of Wh---- is it isn't "mystical" or "secret" in substance.  A secret is psychological, in the mind.  This topic is better understood by examining the parallel of Israel's history when they were condemned into captivity to Babylon.  (The same process is traced in the time of the early church, already apostate when it had been identified as "The Church of the Bishops".)

Another problem is this explanation is at least part of how Protestant and Independent "Churches" brush off onto others what should convict themselves of the same sin.  You can hardly blame the Roman Catholic bureauchracy and ignore ancient Israel, first in line before it, and the subsequent sects, including todays staged religious shows in steeple houses that usurp the ministry of the body of Christ.  It is Institutional Christianity (and Judaism) which most clearly fits the description.  Men have intercourse with institutions for reward and positions of Gentile authority within the institution.  Like the bricks of Babel, they are made the same as one another by conforming to something that doesn't exist but in their imaginations.  God builds with living stones.  Instead of the hierarchies of religious systems, authority in the kingdom of God is by direct relationship to God.  Without other mediators, only direct communion with God, is how the realm where God reigns progresses.

I wished I would have been able to put that into words, I agree.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline thinktank

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2011, 07:17:31 PM »
Reformer remember to quote the correct source of any quote you post.

I was convinced in the past that the catholic church, mainly due to others showing me perceived correlations, but after much study I have the identity of the real whore and it is much easier than I thought, although I have run into one or two puzzles of scripture that need to be solved for it to be complete, I'll try to post some info on here sometime, for people to see that I have a very strong case for my argument.


Offline Lonely Summer

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2011, 05:22:43 AM »
I don't know if this is any comfort to you, Michelle, but I am wrestling with some of the same issues as you. Right now I just don't see God's presence in the world. Deep down I feel that He has abandoned us, given up on us. "Well, I gave humanity x_____ (number) or chances, and they just never got it together, so to hell with them (not literally)!" Like, there never was a truly humble, sincere coming to Him, so why should He care anymore? Human's will just repeat the same mistakes over and over and never truly learn. I've been wasting my life as a wannabe musician, thinking I could make a difference, even in just a small way, but it hasn't happened. Nobody's life has been changed by listening to my attempts at music making. Nobody cares if I ever play another note or not. Tonight I took my guitar into the street and smashed it. Time to give up the illusion. Nobody cares if I live or die. My family certainly doesn't care. They don't try to understand my depression. They just wanna pretend everything's fine. Just get up in the morning, go to your job, come home, watch tv, go to bed, that's what life's all about. You don't need anything else. I hate this lie! Why doesn't the Almighty just reveal Himself to us all and end the questioning? I've got friends who were raised in the church, but they walked away as adults, because they just don't see any proof that there is a God or Higher Power or whatever name you want to use, they just don't see anything. Life is meaningless, pointless. I don't know how they carry on, believing there is nothing except science and money. Some people have these dramatic "road to Damascus" conversion stories, it's like one day the truth just hits them, God visits them, and there are no questions anymore. I don't have anything EXCEPT questions.