Author Topic: What exactly happened last night???  (Read 10150 times)

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Offline Michelle

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What exactly happened last night???
« on: February 28, 2011, 02:26:59 AM »
Last night, I was sleeping and I saw a grey lake, with grey water and grey shores and grey sky. Eveything was grey, the color of ash. I felt that God was displeased with me and suddenly, I was overcome with great fear, tossing and turning and trembling in my sleep, half-conscious and I cried out to God. And I cried in my mind: "Not the shores, not the sea! Not like this! Not sin! Not the wrath! Please God, help me!" I'm not really sure what was that place of greyness and grey water, but I didn't want to go there. I knew that If I ended up there, I would feel separated from God. Not forever, but for a really long time and undergo some kind of punishment. Was that Hades I saw?

Revalation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

I woke up with my heart racing, scared to death and trembling. :mshock: I got out of bed and throwed myself face down on the floor and lied prostrate, swearing that I would quit smoking, that I would never lie to my mother again, that I would never become obssess with studying UR material at the cost of neglecting my prayer life and relationship with God ever again. I reached out to God and told Him that I didn't want to be terrified of Him, that I wanted to love Him and be loved of Him and be at peace with Him and myself. My fear suddenly disappeared as I was filled with comfort and love to overflow. :HeartThrob: When I woke up this morning, I tried to undestand what the "hell" happened last night, when the phone rang. My mom and my sis are constantly fighting with each other and they try to involve me in their quarrels. That, coupled with what happened last night made me feel depressed. I thought: "This is just too much, Lord. Why can't they just solve their conflict and leave me out of it? What is it exactly that you want from me? I'm not an enabler." If only they could just stop fighting... :sigh:

I thought about it all day, but I'm not sure I understand. Is it possible that God was correcting me to spare me future corrections? Can someone please explain to me what the "hell" happened last night??? :dontknow:

Michelle.

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 03:04:43 AM »
It's hard to say but I will certainly venture a guess.  I know God can come to us in our dreams.  But, I believe more often than not our dreams are our subconscience working out unresolved anxieties.  Gray is neither black or white...it's the depressing uncertainty.  I truly believe your natural mind is fighting with your spiritual being for control.  I believe God wants to reveal his true nature to you but history, the teachings and abuses of man have you bound.  It's keeping you from experiencing his fullness.

God is not a bully, nor is he an ogre.  Does he correct?  Certainly.  But, it's to steer you, to shape you in order to bring you closer...not to seperate you.  I believe your image of God is still greatly distorted and that is going to take some healing that only God can bring into your life.  A healthy fear of God is a good thing, but when that healthy fear turns into a chronic anxiety that leads to trying to stave off God's fury...you end up with a relationship with the law.

Michelle, God loves you deeply.  He isn't out to get you.  He isn't hiding behind the bushes hoping to catch you doing something wrong so he can slap your hands.  You are beautifully and wonderfully made in HIS image...a child of the living God.  We are to experience freedom, not another form of prison.  Be more God conscious than sins conscious.  Abide in relationship knowing you are accepted just the way you are...and find your rest.

Offline jabcat

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 03:12:10 AM »
Good answer Shawn.  I can't add a thing, other than something I said a little bit ago;  "take my yoke upon you and learn of me.  For I am meek and lowly, and my burden is light." - Yashua
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline thinktank

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 03:35:06 AM »
Interesting vision, could mean many different things, but it seems you have described the vision you have seen by your own words, that your spirit knows what it means, but your brain does not.

Your words are found within the bible

Luke 21:26

 26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

It sounds like you had a vision of the great tribulation, or the day of the lord, when his wrath is poured out. You also mention wrath in your words, the bible says. The grey ash you describe might be some kind of nuclear destruction or supernatural powers of great destruction such as a meteor, that is made of chemicals. Also notice that you mentioned it is temporary, punishement, which the bible also details and says that chastizement is for a season.


Jeremiah 23:15   
Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.


Revelation 8:11 
And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.


Perhaps the phone call was connected to the dream. Maybe the message is that if christian denominations continue to fight each other, they would be cast into great tribulation

Revelation 2:22   
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.


It might refer also to mystery babylon, that the harlot will be judged, the mother and her daughters in this great tribulation.

Revelation 18:10 
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Your vision may not be connected to your own personal place in this, but may be a general viewpoint of the future. But God wants us all to avoid his wrath, by keeping watch and making sure the thief does not break in unexpectingly and find us sleeping.




Offline onlytruth

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 03:51:34 AM »
Hi Michele grey usually represents things that are not as of yet clear
With all of us ,we don't see totally clear but it is coming.so as the old mixes with the new and as we try in our own strength to figure it out it can leave us disapponted.
Don't be discouraged for the father is revealing his truth to you
Blessings

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 08:59:44 AM »
"Your words are found within the bible

Luke 21:26

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

It sounds like you had a vision of the great tribulation, or the day of the lord, when his wrath is poured out. You also mention wrath in your words, the bible says..."

Really not helping... :mshock:

"The grey ash you describe might be some kind of nuclear destruction or supernatural powers of great destruction such as a meteor, that is made of chemicals."

Everything was ashy grey, there was no actual ash...

"Also notice that you mentioned it is temporary, punishement, which the bible also details and says that chastizement is for a season."

Yes, that vision or dream or whatever it was didn't shatter my conviction that the punishment was temporary. In fact, if I look on the bright side, I realize that that vision or whatever it was strenghtened my conviction that the punishment was temporary. If it wasn't certainty to me before, it is now, because I felt it as fact, as certainty and the Holy Spirit bore witness with my spirit. Another thing that I don't understand is why God doesn't reveal this to all the ETs so they can just stop causing so much damage to themselves and others...

"Perhaps the phone call was connected to the dream. Maybe the message is that if christian denominations continue to fight each other, they would be cast into great tribulation..."

It's not that simple, Thinktank. People have different beliefs and they are convinced that if they go against their personal beliefs or get along with people who have different beliefs, they will get in serious trouble with God. I will give you an example and don't think that I'm being criticizing other denominations here, I'm merely stating facts. Some Christians have a problems with Catholics because most Catholics are worshipping Mary, saints, angels, praying to the dead, have statues and images. To most Christians, it is idolatry because the only intercessor between man and God is Jesus. He alone is the way to God and created beings should never be worshipped. God also say in the Bible that communicating with the dead is forbidden, that includes prayer. So you can see that all the people fighting is because of fear that certain beliefs would be forced on them or that they would get in trouble with God. And then you have the whole free will/sovereignty or Trinity/no Trinity thing. No wonder it is forbidden to talk about it on this forum. It only causes fights and arguments. People will never agree with each other on everything and all the time. That's totally impossible. Even among a specific denomination there are people who don't agree with each other and people of the same denomination don't necessarily have the exact same beliefs or views. I've had a bad experience with Catholics in the past, but I have nothing against them as people. On the other hand, even though I'm polite when they talk to me, I avoid them as much as possible because I have a history of idolatry myself and the last thing I want is to get in trouble with God again. Not all religions lead to heaven. In fact no religion leads to heaven. It isn't about religion, it's about Jesus. Well, yeah, I'm friends with a ET who misrepresent God and It just seems that I can't give him up or give up on him. The Bible clearly tells us that we are not to compromise with the world, but Jesus never asked me to put an end to my friendship with my ET friend. He only asked me to drop the subject of UR when talking to my friend. But idolatry is something that makes most Christians shudder. I don't know if it's true, but someone once told me that it is the worst of all sins. Many people died in the OT because of that sin and sometimes I wonder why I'm still alive.

"It might refer also to mystery babylon, that the harlot will be judged, the mother and her daughters in this great tribulation.

Revelation 18:10 
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."

I don't see what Babylon and harlot have to do with me, my mom and my sis. My sister has sex outside of marriage because she's not married with her boyfriend, but she is faithful and even though they are both unsaved and they have sinned just like everyone else, I will not tolerate my family being compared to Babylon and harlots. And just so you know, the whore of Babylon is actually the Vatican. I suggest you study the subject and search these things for yourself. The Vatican has been infiltrated by Satanists and the Cardinals wear scarlet just like the whore of Babylon, not to mention that the Pope promote the idea of aliens from space which are nothing but evil fallen angels. All the so-called alien abductions are in fact demonic attack and demonic oppression. Before I became a Christian Universalist, I was attacked and tormented in my sleep by evil spirits. I have been for ten years. Have you ever heard of "Shadow men" or the "Shadow People"? Check on Wikipedia. Thousands of people have seen them. I've been attacked and oppressed by evil spirits in my sleep by them for ten years. But Jesus protected me and saved my soul from them countless times. They attack mostly when people are asleep, because people are completely vulnerable then...

"But God wants us all to avoid his wrath, by keeping watch and making sure the thief does not break in unexpectingly and find us sleeping."

Well, it's HIS responsibility now, isn't it? I'm not an enabler. I'm only human and I'm doing everything I can. He could start with curing me of my addiction to nicotine and cigarette. For how many months will I have to pray and beg before I am cured? How long will I keep smoking? How long will I keep enjoying it and hating it in turn? How long will I have to follow the desire of my flesh and then hate myself for enjoying something that is sinful, harmful to myself and displeasing to God? I'm the worst of all Christians. I keep smoking cigarette after cigarette and I say: "I'm sorry, Lord", "Forgive me, Jesus", but I just keep smoking anyway. And everytime, I smoke a cigarette, I hear that voice that tells me: "If you die before confessing all of your sins, you'll roast in hell for all eternity. That cigarette might very well be your downfall, but you'll just keep smoking anyway." That stupid drug addiction is killing me and I always feel like it's getting in the way of my relationship with God. And I feel guilty all the time. I feel dirty and disgusting and I feel like God is most displeased with me. Maybe that dream was about my guilty conscience. I just don't understand why God doesn't cure me. I've been praying and begging for weeks. What's the point of not curing me? I don't see how good could come out of this. I always feel like it's somehow putting distance between me and God and half of the time when I repent of it, I'm not sincere and it's killing me because I know I'm just gonna smoke another one. I'm doing harm to God's temple which is my body and the Bible says that those who defile God's temple, He will destroy them. I don't want to be punished and I just don't understand why He doesn't cure when I spent so much time praying and begging Him to cure me...

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 01:45:36 PM »
"I truly believe your natural mind is fighting with your spiritual being for control.  I believe God wants to reveal his true nature to you but history, the teachings and abuses of man have you bound.  It's keeping you from experiencing his fullness."

Well, yeah, I've often felt that my natural mind was fighting with my spiritual being for control and it's totally killing me. "Who will deliver from the body of this death?" I will never understand why the Lord chose such a salvation process. Is that really what He wants? His children becoming walking battlefields? I'm sick and tired of my flesh and spirit fighting it out. That in and of itself is torture. I just wish I knew how to murder that thing living inside me, which the Bible calls natural mind. Then the problem would be solved for good, because my spirit would finally be free to progress faster in the Lord. The natural mind is a cancer, a poison, just like that aging, decaying, mortal body my soul is forced to live in. Did you know that as soon as a human being is born, his cells starts to deteriorate? We are living souls living in decaying, dying bodies. And I have to live with the horror of that reality everyday. I am a living soul trapped in a rotting, decaying, dying flesh prison. Why, Lord, why? And as if that wasn't enough, there's sickness, malady, physical pain, and death (more often than not, painful). Why the Lord leaves us to live in such a state of fragility and vulnerability is beyond my understanding. Why not remedy to it? Sometimes, I can't help but think: "Does God really love us or does He just pity us?" How many times in my life will I have to ask the oh so important and still unanswered question: "Why, Lord, Why?" before I start getting answers? And I hate my natural mind and I wish I could utterly destroy it because it keeps me from understanding many spiritual things and it always try to hinder my walk with God. You think God wants to reveal His true nature to me? But the fact is, God is just way too big and way too holy for any human to receive the revelation of His true nature and stay sane. Why do you think He concealed or covered Himself when speaking to people in the OT? Things became different when He came here on earth, in the flesh, because His human flesh concealed or covered His true nature and people could actually look at Him without going blind or insane. The Bible says that no one can see God and live. I don't think God will ever reveal His true nature to anyone in this life. The finite mind wouldn't comprehend it and such revelation would make a man go insane. That's what most people say anyway and I think it's true...

"I believe God wants to reveal his true nature to you but history, the teachings and abuses of man have you bound.  It's keeping you from experiencing his fullness. God is not a bully, nor is he an ogre.  Does he correct?  Certainly.  But, it's to steer you, to shape you in order to bring you closer...not to seperate you.  I believe your image of God is still greatly distorted and that is going to take some healing that only God can bring into your life.  A healthy fear of God is a good thing, but when that healthy fear turns into a chronic anxiety that leads to trying to stave off God's fury...you end up with a relationship with the law.
Michelle, God loves you deeply.  He isn't out to get you.  He isn't hiding behind the bushes hoping to catch you doing something wrong so he can slap your hands."

Being an extremist doesn't lead anywhere good, you know. The ETs consider fear of God to be a great and useful thing, the Christian Universalists seem to consider it to be a very bad thing to be avoided. But there's a middle ground you know. I think God can use fear to an extent to bring about good things and I don't think fear is entirely a bad thing. Also, being corrected and chastized is a fearful thing:

"THE LIVING GOD FEARFUL.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."--Heb.x:31

To fall into the hands of God, the living God, is as when (I Sam. v:6) "the hand of the Lord was heavy," and "the hand of the Lord was against the Philistines."

"It denotes the judgments of God falling on the sinful. It is fearful to merit and receive those penalties. God has a merciful purpose in them, but they are often fearful to experience. We are always in God's hands, but we are said to "fall into" his hands when we suffer the consequences of sinfulness. It is a fearful thing to merit and receive the results of wickedness, even though a beneficent purpose moulds them, just as an amputation is a fearful process to undergo, though it may save life and restore health."

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html#14

Maybe, as you said, history, the teachings and abuses of man have me bound, somehow, but I seriously doubt that fear is entirely a bad thing. And that's from someone who hates being scared. But what happened last night left me with a new understanding of fear. That it wouldn't last, that peace and love would always follow, that God's mercy really endures forever, and that it wasn't entirely a bad thing because when God is displeased and angry, He will never refuse to make peace with someone who ask for peace and the fear I experienced on that night taught me two important things. One, When God is displeased, He will always lead people to repentance (I cried out to Him and asked for His help). Two, the consequences of sin are often fearful to experience as the "Bible threatening explained" article says, so it is only natural that it causes a certain amount of fear.

Also, something else recently happened to me that is bothering me. When I received the revelation of truth from the Holy Spirit and embraced Christian Universalism, I was filled with God's love to overflow and that peace that passes all understanding, and that joy, and true happiness for once. I was not only filled with His love for me, but with His love for all mankind. I truly loved all mankind. I was so filled and intoxicated with His love that I walked in a state of contentment and pure ecstasy or great inner peace for a time. It lasted a few days, then it subsided. As Gary put it:

"For the next three days after this incident I walked this earth in what seemed to me to be perfect love. I think it was absolutely impossible for me during that time to hate anyone, not even the most evil person I could think of. I felt like a small child holding on to the back of Jesus, looking at the world through His eyes, hearing with His ears, and loving with His heart. For three days this earth was paradise. Everything was beautiful. All the awful people were gone. Now you have to understand there were a lot of people I hated during that time of my life. I had become extremely prejudice and quick to write off people in general.

For several days thereafter, but especially the first three days, there was a love operating in me which either blinded me from seeing the awful side of people or dispelled some power in me which made me perceive people in a way different from what they really were. Whatever was going on, I had genuine love and concern for people to whom I would not normally give the time of day. Something totally not me was going on inside of me.

After three days of intense perfect love, there seemed to be a gradual decrease until by the eighth day, I felt almost like my normal self. That was awful!! I didn't know how I was going to live with myself the way I used to be, having experienced life in such a glorious way. What a downer! Having been an atheist all my life, I really had very little exposure to religion. I had no idea what was going on. I knew that I needed help. Whatever I experienced, I wanted to go back to that state."

http://www.tentmaker.org/testimonials/GaryAmirault.html

Some people say we shouldn't trust our feelings, but how are you supposed to keep living with your normal self when you have experienced this? Why doesn't it last forever? I want that back! Not anyone in their right mind wouldn't want that back! How can I convince God to do it again and make it last forever? I nearly lost my mind when I lost this. After experiencing this and losing it, I went through a painful emotional shock and it truly felt like separation from God. Maybe that was what my dream or vision was about. You said our dreams could be our subconscience working out unresolved anxieties. It's also proved that our dreams can be related to the traumas we went through. I dunno. I could speculate indefinitely because I have no idea what that dream or visions really means. I somehow know that I was never separated from God after this "experience", that it is only an "impression". But it just feels so real that it's killing me. I have to get that back at all costs. I cannot love mankind with ordinary, weak, human love. I cannot feel alive and fully believe the promises of scriptures without that supernatural, divine and infinite love for mankind. Once you have experienced this and you lose it, you feel dead inside. You might hurt, cry and feel depressed, but you feel utterly dead. Oh, to love all of mankind through Him again. Oh, to feel so close to the Master. To be so one with Him that you can't tell where you begin and where He ends and the other way around. *Sobbing* Everyday I hunger and thirst for more of Him. When I had that dream or vision, I was so terrified of losing Him, of being separated from Him, even temporarily. I know that He will never leave me and that He loves me very much, I've felt it after I woke up from that dream or vision, but I wish I was always so very close to Him and always love everyone with HIS perfect love. I want that to last forever. I have to ge that back. Life is nothing and meaningless without that...

"A healthy fear of God is a good thing, but when that healthy fear turns into a chronic anxiety that leads to trying to stave off God's fury...you end up with a relationship with the law. We are to experience freedom, not another form of prison.  Be more God conscious than sins conscious.  Abide in relationship knowing you are accepted just the way you are...and find your rest."

People just can't do anything they want, Shawn. We can't say that we are accepted just the way we are and continue in sin. We are to live righteous and holy lives. We are to be examples to those who do not know Christ and not give them a reason to believe that we are "heretics" and "dreamers" as the ETs say. I'm very well aware that we can't do that in our own strength, that only Jesus can do it for us, but it's no reason to continue in sin. And without being legalists, we must strive to avoid sin and ask for Jesus' strength in doing so. I just wish He would cure me of my addiction to nicotine and cigarette. Of all the sins I've ever struggled with, It's the worst. Maybe only second to becoming obssess with studying UR material at the cost of neglecting my prayer life and my relationship with Him. He tried to get my attention for days and I ignored Him. Why do I always have to be so stupid? I can't do that again, not ever. I hate myself for hurting Jesus. I hate myself everytime I hurt Him, but it just keep happening. I want so bad to be perfect to Him and for Him.




Offline CHB

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 08:34:11 PM »
Quote from: Michelle
I want so bad to be perfect to Him and for Him.

Hi,

I'm afraid that isn't going to happen as long as you are in the flesh. No one is perfect in this life, if we were we wouldn't need Jesus Christ.

CHB

Offline Cardinal

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 12:35:07 AM »
 :cloud9: Hi Michelle.......welcome to the board. I had an experience with His love in the beginning of my walk, just like you describe, and it too seemed to "disipate" over a about a week and a half. I believe some of us have to be shown the end from the beginning, especially if we have never know what love was, to keep us pressing in until we reach that again. My  :2c: Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline thinktank

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 01:22:12 AM »
"Your words are found within the bible

Luke 21:26

26Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

It sounds like you had a vision of the great tribulation, or the day of the lord, when his wrath is poured out. You also mention wrath in your words, the bible says..."

Really not helping... :mshock:

Maybe not initially, but once you realize you don't have to go there, it won't scare you so much.
TT

"The grey ash you describe might be some kind of nuclear destruction or supernatural powers of great destruction such as a meteor, that is made of chemicals."

Everything was ashy grey, there was no actual ash...
Perhaps it was a meteor shower  :winkgrin:

"Also notice that you mentioned it is temporary, punishement, which the bible also details and says that chastizement is for a season."

Yes, that vision or dream or whatever it was didn't shatter my conviction that the punishment was temporary. In fact, if I look on the bright side, I realize that that vision or whatever it was strenghtened my conviction that the punishment was temporary. If it wasn't certainty to me before, it is now, because I felt it as fact, as certainty and the Holy Spirit bore witness with my spirit. Another thing that I don't understand is why God doesn't reveal this to all the ETs so they can just stop causing so much damage to themselves and others...

"Perhaps the phone call was connected to the dream. Maybe the message is that if christian denominations continue to fight each other, they would be cast into great tribulation..."

It's not that simple, Thinktank. People have different beliefs and they are convinced that if they go against their personal beliefs or get along with people who have different beliefs, they will get in serious trouble with God. I will give you an example and don't think that I'm being criticizing other denominations here, I'm merely stating facts. Some Christians have a problems with Catholics because most Catholics are worshipping Mary, saints, angels, praying to the dead, have statues and images. To most Christians, it is idolatry because the only intercessor between man and God is Jesus. He alone is the way to God and created beings should never be worshipped. God also say in the Bible that communicating with the dead is forbidden, that includes prayer. So you can see that all the people fighting is because of fear that certain beliefs would be forced on them or that they would get in trouble with God. And then you have the whole free will/sovereignty or Trinity/no Trinity thing. No wonder it is forbidden to talk about it on this forum. It only causes fights and arguments. People will never agree with each other on everything and all the time. That's totally impossible. Even among a specific denomination there are people who don't agree with each other and people of the same denomination don't necessarily have the exact same beliefs or views. I've had a bad experience with Catholics in the past, but I have nothing against them as people. On the other hand, even though I'm polite when they talk to me, I avoid them as much as possible because I have a history of idolatry myself and the last thing I want is to get in trouble with God again. Not all religions lead to heaven. In fact no religion leads to heaven. It isn't about religion, it's about Jesus. Well, yeah, I'm friends with a ET who misrepresent God and It just seems that I can't give him up or give up on him. The Bible clearly tells us that we are not to compromise with the world, but Jesus never asked me to put an end to my friendship with my ET friend. He only asked me to drop the subject of UR when talking to my friend. But idolatry is something that makes most Christians shudder. I don't know if it's true, but someone once told me that it is the worst of all sins. Many people died in the OT because of that sin and sometimes I wonder why I'm still alive.

I don't mean to compromise on beliefs, I don't think that helps at all. But I mean to get rid of and repent of a spirit of hatred. There are groups out there that do hate other denominations. I notice a lot of anticatholic sites, that have a lot of fear and hatred towards the catholic church, this must be repented of.

"It might refer also to mystery babylon, that the harlot will be judged, the mother and her daughters in this great tribulation.

Revelation 18:10 
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."

I don't see what Babylon and harlot have to do with me, my mom and my sis. My sister has sex outside of marriage because she's not married with her boyfriend, but she is faithful and even though they are both unsaved and they have sinned just like everyone else, I will not tolerate my family being compared to Babylon and harlots.

Sorry you have misundrstood me. I did not connect it to your familly. I meant the dream had a deeper meaning for the body of christ, a message for others. In the interpreatation, your mother and daughter arguing represent Mother babylon and her harlot daughters. It does not matter if they are super holy, they are simoply playing a temporary character role, in my own movie interpretation of your dream.

 And just so you know, the whore of Babylon is actually the Vatican. I suggest you study the subject and search these things for yourself. The Vatican has been infiltrated by Satanists and the Cardinals wear scarlet just like the whore of Babylon, not to mention that the Pope promote the idea of aliens from space which are nothing but evil fallen angels.

I have studied the identity of mystery babylon for a long time. I cannot see the vatician being the whore, I'm sorry. I believe that most of the christian scholars have it completely wrong and that the catholic church having purple and scarlet clothing is an unfortunate coincidence which serves well in, sidetracking the identity of the real whore. The idea of the vatician being the whore is mans method of looking for a likely candidate and trying to force the piece into the scriptures. But if one look at the bulk of the scripture, a lot does fit but many do not, that is eqivalent to having a key that is the correct size to a lock, but does not have the correct pattern to fit the key hole, therefore is not the correct key.


 All the so-called alien abductions are in fact demonic attack and demonic oppression.

TT
That is a great relief for the christian world.
TT

 Before I became a Christian Universalist, I was attacked and tormented in my sleep by evil spirits. I have been for ten years. Have you ever heard of "Shadow men" or the "Shadow People"? Check on Wikipedia. Thousands of people have seen them. I've been attacked and oppressed by evil spirits in my sleep by them for ten years. But Jesus protected me and saved my soul from them countless times. They attack mostly when people are asleep, because people are completely vulnerable then...

"But God wants us all to avoid his wrath, by keeping watch and making sure the thief does not break in unexpectingly and find us sleeping."

Well, it's HIS responsibility now, isn't it? I'm not an enabler. I'm only human and I'm doing everything I can. He could start with curing me of my addiction to nicotine and cigarette. For how many months will I have to pray and beg before I am cured? How long will I keep smoking? How long will I keep enjoying it and hating it in turn? How long will I have to follow the desire of my flesh and then hate myself for enjoying something that is sinful, harmful to myself and displeasing to God? I'm the worst of all Christians. I keep smoking cigarette after cigarette and I say: "I'm sorry, Lord", "Forgive me, Jesus", but I just keep smoking anyway. And everytime, I smoke a cigarette, I hear that voice that tells me: "If you die before confessing all of your sins, you'll roast in hell for all eternity. That cigarette might very well be your downfall, but you'll just keep smoking anyway." That stupid drug addiction is killing me and I always feel like it's getting in the way of my relationship with God. And I feel guilty all the time. I feel dirty and disgusting and I feel like God is most displeased with me. Maybe that dream was about my guilty conscience. I just don't understand why God doesn't cure me. I've been praying and begging for weeks. What's the point of not curing me? I don't see how good could come out of this. I always feel like it's somehow putting distance between me and God and half of the time when I repent of it, I'm not sincere and it's killing me because I know I'm just gonna smoke another one. I'm doing harm to God's temple which is my body and the Bible says that those who defile God's temple, He will destroy them. I don't want to be punished and I just don't understand why He doesn't cure when I spent so much time praying and begging Him to cure me...

TT
It's not healthy to hate the flesh. I think this is a bad myth of christianity that does a lot of damage. Christians don't seem to realize that when the body is taken cared of and is fed good nutrition and also good healthy thoughts and healthy lifestyle, then there is no evil and struggle is much less. Eating food for example is not disgusting, but a pleasurable experience that is wonderfull. Excercise also gives pleasure. The body when operating well, is happy and the spirit or inner man, has a healthy relationship with the body.

The bible says

Ephesians 5:29   
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Instead of going cold turkey, smoke less each day. Excercise plan an athlete has, you create a smoking plan, in 6 months you could be smoking half the amount or even quit altogether.
TT


Offline redhotmagma

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 03:23:43 AM »
It's not healthy to hate the flesh. I think this is a bad myth of christianity that does a lot of damage. Christians don't seem to realize that when the body is taken cared of and is fed good nutrition and also good healthy thoughts and healthy lifestyle, then there is no evil and struggle is much less. Eating food for example is not disgusting, but a pleasurable experience that is wonderfull. Excercise also gives pleasure. The body when operating well, is happy and the spirit or inner man, has a healthy relationship with the body. 
ThinkTank

Thats good stuff man, I have been thinking that way lately, since I was so trying to kill the carnal nature (I would get it confused with my body) I've been making myself kind of miserable.

Offline jabcat

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 03:50:50 AM »
That's what I was thinking too, the difference between the natural flesh (our physical body, the temple) and the carnal "flesh", i.e., sinful MIND/desires/tendencies.  I haven't looked at the Greek, but although the English translations often use those terms (for flesh) interchangeably, I believe it's good to differentiate.   :thumbsup:   
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2011, 04:00:10 AM »
Michelle, a couple things caught my eye.  First, if you read my initial response you will see that I say a healthy fear of God is a good thing.  But, then go on to describe an unhealthy fear of God.  I don't believe that to be an extremist view.  Since I don't know you and you don't know me all we have is words on a screen.  You can not hear the tone of my heart.  My style is direct, but I have a deep compassion for anyone who has been abused, physicially, emotionally or spiritually.  Those deep wounds seem to seep into all avenues of one's life from relationships to people, relationship to yourself, and relationship to God.  I understand this on a personal level.  I battle with some of the same things you battle with.  But, I have found some relief and I am trying to direct you towards that.  I hope that doesn't offend you, or my style rubbed you the wrong way.

Let me say, that most dreams are not visions.  Most dreams are used to either problem solve, defrag cerebral information, or to work out emotional issues.  They do have a physiological purpose and we don't need to get too worked up about them.  I have had dreams prompt me to make an ammend.  My subconscious mind brought forth to my conscious mind a hurt I caused another.  I didn't even realize it at the time.  I remember struggling for hours on a physics problem in college.  When I woke up the next day I knew the solution.  How many times have you gone to bed sad, depressed, only to feel better in the morning?  That is because of a couple reasons, rest and yes dreams.  I say all this because it is very easy for us to overreact and read something into an event, situation, dream etc.  I believe this was nothing more than your mind working out cognitive dissonance.  But, when we misinterpret it tends to create more of it.  I know from personal experience.  Since I have suffered from anxiety for much of my life, I am very good at working up something from nothing.  I have to redirect, and have healthy internal dialogue with myself.

I would agree with your sentiment about this flesh.  We all feel that pull and yield to it at times.  The fact that it bothers you is actually a good thing.  But, obsessing about it and allowing it to consume your thought life isn't.  You want to please God but don't always do it.  We are all in that boat.  Paul described the same problem within him.  If Paul suffered from the affliction of the flesh what makes you think you will get out of it?  It's God's training ground for the soul.  We don't have to like it, merely live in it.  The flesh has open communication with the world.  The spirit has open communication with God.  The soul is caught in between.  We are being spoken to in both ears.  It creates a pull, and there is a constant tension.  We are trained by the hand of God to turn our eyes and ears towards the spirit.  That is a painful and gradual process.  Take solace in knowing, we are all there with you.  God isn't shocked when you fail.  He expects it.  He uses our failures to train us.

When I obsess about my failures with the flesh, I find myself depressed, joyless, useless and without peace.  When I fix my eyes upon him, my joy returns and I find my rest.  Focus on the good things in this life.  Make a gratitude list when you feel like negative thinking is overwhelming you.  Fixating on the negative, the depressing, the failiures, the injustice etc will only lead to a miserable existence.

After reading your story, I realize you might be in the same boat as myself who needed some additional help processing early childhood pain.  Mine was AA, my sponsor, and a professional counselor.  Yours could be a Christian support group, or an abuse support group.  Trying to work through all that yourself isn't always wise or fruitful.

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 04:02:33 AM »
That's what I was thinking too, the difference between the natural flesh (our physical body, the temple) and the carnal "flesh", i.e., sinful MIND/desires/tendencies.  I haven't looked at the Greek, but although the English translations often use those terms (for flesh) interchangeably, I believe it's good to differentiate.   :thumbsup:

I think you are correct.  We are talking about two different things here.  The flesh that needs to die is carnal thinking and pursuits.  The flesh we live in is the temple of the Holy Spirit.  It's kind of like saying I love someone with all of my heart.  No we love them with our minds. 

Offline Molly

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 04:03:06 AM »
People wonder what dying to self means.  They think it means how you dress or what you watch on tv or whether you smoke or drink or whether you volunteer 10 hours a week at a soup kitchen.

I don't think it is any of those things.

If we look at how the world works, we see, generally, a template of self interest and greed which ends up harming everyone.  Even someone like Bernie Madoff was harmed terribly by his own greed, worrying how he was going to be able to repay the billions he lost and spent, until it became clear to him that he was not going to be able to escape justice.  I am sure his fun with his homes, cars, planes, and boats was constantly overshadowed by worry.

Those involved with him paid a huge price also.  Whether they knew and helped cover for him, or winked and benefited, few escaped unscathed.

If any one person had said, I am going to expose this no matter that it cost me my job or my lifestyle or my family or my life, everything would have been different.  Do I think there were many people--in his organization, client base, and the government-- who could have done this during his 20 year spree?  Oh yes.

But, not one was willing to 'die to self.'  The game was too good.  And, the stakes too high.

Dying to self means you love truth, honor, and integrity more than your own self interest.  It means you give your life for your friends.  And, your friends, like in the story of the good samaritan, and the story of the cross, are everyone. There is no greater love.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 04:12:50 AM by Molly »

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 12:07:29 PM »
Quote from: Michelle
I want so bad to be perfect to Him and for Him.

Hi,

I'm afraid that isn't going to happen as long as you are in the flesh. No one is perfect in this life, if we were we wouldn't need Jesus Christ.

CHB

But if I was, I would never disappoint Him or hurt Him ever again. I would never have any sin and I would be everything He wants me to be. And if perfect people don't need Jesus, then why do people who live in heaven need Him once they are perfect?

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 12:09:01 PM »
:cloud9: Hi Michelle.......welcome to the board. I had an experience with His love in the beginning of my walk, just like you describe, and it too seemed to "disipate" over a about a week and a half. I believe some of us have to be shown the end from the beginning, especially if we have never know what love was, to keep us pressing in until we reach that again. My  :2c: Blessings.....

It's killing me. And it's not like we can really love mankind with our weak, pathetic, human love. Only with his pure, perfect, divine love. And everyone desperately needs to feel alive...

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 12:29:32 PM »
It's not healthy to hate the flesh. I think this is a bad myth of christianity that does a lot of damage. Christians don't seem to realize that when the body is taken cared of and is fed good nutrition and also good healthy thoughts and healthy lifestyle, then there is no evil and struggle is much less. Eating food for example is not disgusting, but a pleasurable experience that is wonderfull. Excercise also gives pleasure. The body when operating well, is happy and the spirit or inner man, has a healthy relationship with the body. 
ThinkTank

Thats good stuff man, I have been thinking that way lately, since I was so trying to kill the carnal nature (I would get it confused with my body) I've been making myself kind of miserable.

That doesn't mean we can indulge in just about any fleshly pleasure. Eating good food and exercising is not sinful so there is no need for renewing our mind and mortify the deeds of the flesh when it comes to that. But one simply cannot abuse alcohol, do drugs or commit fornication. As a Christian, one is responsible for renewing his mind and mortify the deeds of the flesh when a sinful desire come. As I said earlier in another post, one simply cannot do everything he wants. Those who love the Lord strive to live a righteous and holy life. They set an example for new Christians and future Christians. Just because we know the truth of Universal Salvation doesn't mean we can do anything we want and minimize the gravity of sin. We must repent and ask for His strength and faith to avoid sinning. And if the carnal nature is not the body then what is it? I'm interested. The carnal nature is one of many hindrances in our walk with the Lord, it is enmity with God. So, if you know how to get rid of it, please share...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 01:07:59 PM by Michelle »

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 12:35:17 PM »
That's what I was thinking too, the difference between the natural flesh (our physical body, the temple) and the carnal "flesh", i.e., sinful MIND/desires/tendencies.  I haven't looked at the Greek, but although the English translations often use those terms (for flesh) interchangeably, I believe it's good to differentiate.   :thumbsup:

Once you have found the answer, please share. What I want to know is how to kill it for good...

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 12:54:21 PM »
That's what I was thinking too, the difference between the natural flesh (our physical body, the temple) and the carnal "flesh", i.e., sinful MIND/desires/tendencies.  I haven't looked at the Greek, but although the English translations often use those terms (for flesh) interchangeably, I believe it's good to differentiate.   :thumbsup:

I think you are correct.  We are talking about two different things here.  The flesh that needs to die is carnal thinking and pursuits.  The flesh we live in is the temple of the Holy Spirit.  It's kind of like saying I love someone with all of my heart.  No we love them with our minds.

Not at all. We love them with our SPIRITUAL hearts. It's a spiritual heart that is just behind our physical hearts and it's called the Sacred Heart. Also, love is not something we offer or do, it's what we are. God is love and we were made in the image of God, therefore we ARE love. Love is our identity, it is what we are. What we give or do is the result of love, not love itself. You should read: "Love without end, Jesus speaks", by Glenda Green. All Christian Universalists should. Some of it will be Babel gibberish to you if you hardly know anything about physics and science, but most of it will make perfect sense and it will change your life. It's a must read for all Christian Universalists...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 01:08:51 PM by Michelle »

Offline Molly

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 03:08:06 PM »
Quote from: Michelle
We love them with our SPIRITUAL hearts. It's a spiritual heart that is just behind our physical hearts and it's called the Sacred Heart. Also, love is not something we offer or do, it's what we are. God is love and we were made in the image of God, therefore we ARE love. Love is our identity, it is what we are. What we give or do is the result of love, not love itself.

I like that.  :thumbsup:

Offline shawn

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2011, 12:24:33 AM »
That's what I was thinking too, the difference between the natural flesh (our physical body, the temple) and the carnal "flesh", i.e., sinful MIND/desires/tendencies.  I haven't looked at the Greek, but although the English translations often use those terms (for flesh) interchangeably, I believe it's good to differentiate.   :thumbsup:

I think you are correct.  We are talking about two different things here.  The flesh that needs to die is carnal thinking and pursuits.  The flesh we live in is the temple of the Holy Spirit.  It's kind of like saying I love someone with all of my heart.  No we love them with our minds.

Not at all. We love them with our SPIRITUAL hearts. It's a spiritual heart that is just behind our physical hearts and it's called the Sacred Heart. Also, love is not something we offer or do, it's what we are. God is love and we were made in the image of God, therefore we ARE love. Love is our identity, it is what we are. What we give or do is the result of love, not love itself. You should read: "Love without end, Jesus speaks", by Glenda Green. All Christian Universalists should. Some of it will be Babel gibberish to you if you hardly know anything about physics and science, but most of it will make perfect sense and it will change your life. It's a must read for all Christian Universalists...

The sacred heart is not something I am familiar with...is this a Biblical principle?  I believe it's mostly associated with the Catholic faith, so I wouldn't be very familar with it.  With that said, I think you missed the point I was trying to make.  When I say this, I am speaking to myself as well as anyone else with ears.  But, sometimes we ask questions but don't quiet ourselves or humble ourselves enough to listen to the answers God is trying to give us through others.   :2c:

Offline thinktank

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2011, 01:29:35 AM »
Quote from: Michelle
I want so bad to be perfect to Him and for Him.

Hi,

I'm afraid that isn't going to happen as long as you are in the flesh. No one is perfect in this life, if we were we wouldn't need Jesus Christ.

CHB

But if I was, I would never disappoint Him or hurt Him ever again. I would never have any sin and I would be everything He wants me to be. And if perfect people don't need Jesus, then why do people who live in heaven need Him once they are perfect?

This is what Adam and Eve thought. Hey we are perfect beings, we don't need God anymore, we will rule by ourselves. This world is a demonstration of what life is like without God.



Offline micah7:9

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2011, 05:53:43 AM »
"People wonder what dying to self means.  They think it means how you dress or what you watch on tv or whether you smoke or drink or whether you volunteer 10 hours a week at a soup kitchen.

I don't think it is any of those things."  Molly

Right on and Amen. :thumbsup: :bigGrin: :HeartThrob:

Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Michelle

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Re: What exactly happened last night???
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2011, 09:29:51 AM »
Quote from: Michelle
I want so bad to be perfect to Him and for Him.

Hi,

I'm afraid that isn't going to happen as long as you are in the flesh. No one is perfect in this life, if we were we wouldn't need Jesus Christ.

CHB

But if I was, I would never disappoint Him or hurt Him ever again. I would never have any sin and I would be everything He wants me to be. And if perfect people don't need Jesus, then why do people who live in heaven need Him once they are perfect?

This is what Adam and Eve thought. Hey we are perfect beings, we don't need God anymore, we will rule by ourselves. This world is a demonstration of what life is like without God.

That's not what I meant at all. Don't twist my words. I don't think I don't need God and I certainly don't want to rule. I'm a follower, not a leader. That's why I hope I won't be chosen to rule with Him in the millenial kingdom (if that doctrine is true). I would give my crown to someone else. The thought of so many responsibilities and thousands of people to take care of makes me shudder. I prefer to serve and follow rather than lead and what's the point of ruling yourself if it seperates you from God? Adam and Eve weren't very bright if you ask me. What I was saying is, I wish I was perfect so I would never disappoint Him or hurt Him ever again, because everytime I do, I hate myself and I hurt too. Also, I wish I was perfect because if I was, I would be everything He wants me to be, so He would always be pleased with me and we would both be happy. And people living in heaven are perfect and they still need Him. Everyone needs God. Those who pretend that they don't are either lying or spiritually dead aka unsaved...
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 09:41:49 AM by Michelle »