Author Topic: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?  (Read 16597 times)

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Hennessey

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2007, 07:44:27 PM »

Well here is some of that (ahem, cough) charm that get's me banned from almost every forum I have ever been on. 

http://www.mychurch.org/blog/78323/DENICE

too much fire?   :dontknow:

Offline Cardinal

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2007, 08:13:02 PM »
 :thumbsup: As I said on your blog, that was amazing Jack, and you know how close to home that hits me. Thank God for your obedience to the Spirit.

God in His mercy, raised me up above the death of my emotions when that happened to my son, and I swear the first thought (which I know was Him) I had about the young men that did this to him was, "What must these young men have endured in their young lives already, to make them little more than animals?", putting my focus on His thoughts about them and not mine, which were definitely not as lofty in intent.

I was not long to find out. Someone told me a couple of weeks later, the ringleader watched his father put his mother in the bathtub when she tried to leave him, and set her on fire. I think the person who told me this, said the boy was 7 or 8, somewhere in there. She is horribly disfigured, the police did nothing, and she is still with the monster that lives within him.

After receiving Christ coming out of the rehab hospital, my son, to the glory of God, told me he had been praying for the ones who brain damaged him. I was speechless with awe of the Christ within one so newborn. The ways of God are awesome beyond words. Blessings to you.....
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 09:27:12 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Hennessey

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2007, 08:43:40 PM »
Card I wish you would share that as a comment on that "Denise" post. If you are led. That is powerful.

Truly God is giving us some higher ground there at "My Church"

Jack

PS.  thanks Card :HeartThrob:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 10:21:00 PM by Hennessey »

Offline firstborn888

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2007, 04:51:34 AM »
I think Im a Thomas guys, God has always spoken to me visually, guess He knows I need to see things to believe.......

most dont so noone think that if you have not had visions and such that means anything but that you dont need them like those of us who have do.....

love you all

 :HeartThrob:

kept

That's a great take kept. I used to think I was spiritual because of having dreams and visions. God eventually showed me that it was because I was so hard headed - He had to spell stuff out...  :mblush:

 - byron

Michele

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2007, 06:27:49 AM »
I think Im a Thomas guys, God has always spoken to me visually, guess He knows I need to see things to believe.......

most dont so noone think that if you have not had visions and such that means anything but that you dont need them like those of us who have do.....

love you all

 :HeartThrob:

kept

That's a great take kept. I used to think I was spiritual because of having dreams and visions. God eventually showed me that it was because I was so hard headed - He had to spell stuff out...  :mblush:

 - byron

 :grin: Interesting point lord byron.....I've never thought about it that way......I think you might be on to something there.

You know when kids are in a daze and they zone out and don't listen to their parents........what usually happens is the parents have to use shock factor to get there kids to stop what they're doing and listen for a minute.  Perhaps that's what God does with us quite often. :mshock:  :dontknow:

Kept

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2007, 08:21:23 PM »
Yes, some of us are geared more visually

I used to think I was special too haha but then found out I was just a little slower than some

I do ride that spiritually short bus alot
probably have a name tag on a seat by now but it fits me

we all will get there eventually what ever way He wants to take us! haha

kept
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 08:32:26 PM by Kept »

martincisneros

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2008, 07:22:32 AM »
I'm wondering if on some level, if perhaps I'd always KNOWN, because of a pecularity of my testimony regarding this.  I read Charles Slagle's book "Absolute Assurance in Jesus Christ" in 1999 and I saw absolutely no conflicts between it and what I believed.  I'm sure that I read it.  No big light bulbs went off and I wasn't offended by it.  Didn't particularly crave more info.  Just went back to what I'd always been doing as far as ministry went.  That's had me thinking over the last few weeks "what was up with that?"

But, practically, a seed got planted.  Then around February/March of 2001 a friend pointed out to me a copy of Jan Bonda's book "The One Purpose of God: An Answer To The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment" and within a month or so, I'd finished reading it AND........the rest is history...

I'd really gotten ahold of it then, and knew the contrast between UR and everything else that I'd ever been teaching or hearing up until then.

Within a few weeks, I'd read Knoch's "All in all," Jukes's "Restitution of all things," Thomas Talbott's "The Inescapable Love of God," "Analytical Study of Words" by Louis Abbot, "The Greek Word 'Aion,'" by J.W. Hanson, "Plain Guide to Universalism," by Thomas Whittemore, "The Covenant: A Theology of Human Destiny," by Jakob Jocz, "Christ Triumphant," by Thomas Allin, and a few other books.  I still couldn't really find rest in it until 2003, when I got my hands on a copy of Elhanan Winchester's "The Universal Restoration."  I still had Biblical questions up until then that nobody knew how to answer.  I mean nobody.  And, I finally got all of my questions answered with Elhanan Winchester's book.  I'd been teaching UR a couple of years by then, but still was nagged by the overwhelming sense that I didn't have enough of the Bible under my belt regarding it.

I was never closed to it.  My big thing and frustration for a few years was "Show it to me from THE ENTIRE BIBLE!!" and not just from 60, 80, or 100 passages.  I feared the consequences of being wrong on so fundamental a consideration of the nature, provision, wisdom, intent, predetermination, and free will of God.

Other books have helped along the way, like Charles Chauncy's light read "Mystery Hid From Ages And Generations," but Jan Bonda's book, Hanson's "The Greek Word 'Aion,'" "Analytical Study of Words," by Louis Abbot, and Elhanan Winchester's Dialogues on the Universal Restoration really helped to ground me.  Jakob Jocz's book "The Covenant: A Theology of Human Destiny" was helpful with helping me understand WHY I needed to resolve this issue and why this was important to my understanding, my ministry, and my sanity.

I never want to be without a copy, or even very far from copies, of Jan Bonda's book, Andrew Jukes's book, Thomas Talbott's book, and Elhanan Winchester's book.  Those are my UR "catechism."

I agonized over why UR was unacceptable to other Christians, but never about it being true.  I agonized about how to hold it in "Reserve," to protect my ministry work, but it was one of the greatest breakthroughs of my relationship with the Lord that I've ever had.  I'm genuinely not sure how much I actually believed it until I read Elhanan Winchester's book for the first time in 2003, although I'd already seen it and was already teaching it.

Yeah, I just said that I'd been teaching it, even online for a couple of years, before I really believed it.  So, what did that make it for me?  About a 4 year process from when I read Charles Slagle's book in 1999 to where both my mind and heart were at-one-ment with the message.  It takes a while to totally flush out the human heart after it's had years and years of the message of Christ's ultimate failure in some lives because of their free will, His not having made provision sufficient for each life, or, and more commonly, His not having enough follow through with each individual life until they're all presented before the Father in 1Corinthians 15:28 as perfectly in tune with the divine nature through His own Faith, Grace, and Blood!

grace_explosion

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2008, 07:45:36 AM »
 :bgdance:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 06:47:12 PM by grace_explosion »

Offline CrossoverManiac

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2008, 06:22:45 AM »
I found about tentmaker.org and the doctrine of universal reconciliation while looking up arguments against a Calvinist who was trying to convince me God picked and chose who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. 

Offline Doc

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2008, 03:36:07 AM »
I totally had the concept dropped in my lap by the Holy Spirit a couple years back. I was reading comments posted on a topic at a totally unrelated natural health website. The lady made an offhanded comment at the end of her comment, with a link to L. Ray Smith's website. I was so intrigued by the way she made the comment that I followed the link, and started reading. I felt the stirring of the Spirit while I read, but my first reaction was, "this guy's got to be wrong, he's off his nut. This goes against everything I've ever been taught."  :mshock:

Enter the voice of the Holy Spirit: "Tim, how many other things do you now know as truth that go against everything you've ever been taught?"  :mblush:

I kept reading. I read all of Ray's stuff. I read most of the stuff Martin mentioned plus a ton of other stuff online. I read "Hope Beyond Hell".I read The Evangelical Universalist. I read What does the Bible really say about Hell? Two years later I'm totally convinced. My relationship with God has deepened and taken a turn that I've never had before, or ever been able to have before. He's still breaking much bondage in my life, but I understand God in a whole new way now, and I'll never be able to see things the same way again.  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2008, 03:46:08 AM by Doc »
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

Offline rosered

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2008, 04:42:07 AM »
 :goodpost:   you always have   a great witness/testimony  Doc :dsunny:
 
   ya make my day :thumbsup:

Offline Doc

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2008, 10:26:35 PM »
:goodpost:   you always have   a great witness/testimony  Doc :dsunny:
 
   ya make my day :thumbsup:

Thanks, RR.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

SQ

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2008, 11:16:01 PM »
Hi Doc, Ray has some awesome material one can learn so much from the emails alone.
A internet friend directed me there a couple years ago, I was thrilled.
 I haven't found anything but truth in his papers.

Offline Taffy

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2008, 11:21:51 PM »
Hi Doc, Ray has some awesome material one can learn so much from the emails alone.
A internet friend directed me there a couple years ago, I was thrilled.
 I haven't found anything but truth in his papers.


I beg to differ :icon_flower:
but each to their own :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline rosered

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2008, 11:59:05 PM »
Hi Doc, Ray has some awesome material one can learn so much from the emails alone.
A internet friend directed me there a couple years ago, I was thrilled.
 I haven't found anything but truth in his papers.


I beg to differ :icon_flower:
but each to their own :icon_flower:
:icon_flower:    I as well  Taff  :msealed:

SQ

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2008, 12:59:51 AM »
Well that is ok, we are all seeking truth. :thumbsup:

Offline Taffy

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2008, 01:06:02 AM »
Well that is ok, we are all seeking truth. :thumbsup:
Hi SQ, How ya doing...

I too was at Bts for many seasons, twas I who gave it that abreviation Bro..

irrespective , we grow and Move on with understanding , again each where they are NOW AT ...Tis the "LIGHT of Knowledge" which matters Bro, which indeed differs from mans perspective TRUTH
 :icon_flower:
Good to have you sharing :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2008, 01:41:40 AM »
It was in a season of great despair...I had "lost" (actually, God moving me) what on the surface was a very important job to me.  I was in such despair that I initially prayed to God to die.  I had difficulty with things like hell and forever, fearful, much due to my ultra-fundamentalist upbringing.  During that period of time, I began to search information about hell, I think maybe even in the back of my mind hoping there was some other way about it, maybe something I'd missed.  One of, if not the first person I ran across was J. Preston Eby. I believe I had just googled 'hell', and there it was.  Needless to say, having been raised hell-fire and brimstone, I was amazed and thrilled at what I was reading.  Since that time of God opening my eyes, I see UR throughout the Bible, and praise God for it...for His mercy and righteous judgment.  And He is (undeservedly) blessing me, bringing dawn after the darkness.  God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 01:43:15 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Taffy

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2008, 01:52:20 AM »
I for one never accepted that hell was a Place of ET,..wierd..never gave it a Thought for yrs...if ever,....Hell was always the Grave , a Place of DEATH not torture.

One came to see Salvation for all gradually ,as the scrips unfolded in the their SPIRITUAL Light , which  I found began to say the same message...and still do

so it was nt a shock really , the understanding Gave me surety to  within , which was already there. :icon_flower:



Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

martincisneros

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2008, 01:56:32 AM »
Isn't it amazing how you can think that you're a good Christian that believes all of the Word, but when God decides to make an issue of this, then suddenly everything that the Bible has to say about unbelief, a wicked heart of unbelief, hardness of heart, not knowing His ways and not entering into His rest, etc., suddenly applies to you for a season while you search for how everything in the Scriptures fits in with a belief in this?  Knowing you're disbelieving something that God's showing you is a very disgusting feeling when you've always been on the receiving end of Christian doctrine and have always considered yourself a believer.  For me, the thoughts and emotions that would come out of nowhere about why this can't possibly be true were hair raising 'cause I'd had enough of a revelation of this as well as enough of an intellectual persuasion of this from the Scriptures to know that all of that was my baggage that I had to work through and to fully renew my mind to the Scriptures.

ScarletWren

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2008, 09:19:48 AM »
I went to a Church of Christ for years, was quite happy with most of their beliefs.  The hell thing always disturbed me some but as the Bible spoke of forever and ever, etc. I couldn't find a way out of it and just figured, like the preachers said, God didn't send us to hell, we chose to go there.

Then after one of many Bible studies with some women in the church, I became quite unhappy.  We were studying other religions, well, we went through a book from OUR church's standpoint giving the highlights of these other 'religions' and I was appalled at the coldness of some of the other women how they could just accept that these other people were going to hell just because they were born in a country where most people were of that faith, their parents had brought them up that way, etc.  But strangely enough I started doing a search on baptism, guess I wasn't ready to admit I was questioning the whole faith issue so I began to wonder what getting baptized had to do with our salvation, it was just another ritual.  First I read books from the church's library and it seemed to answer my quesitons.  But later they resurfaced and I reread the one book I really liked and I didn't find any assurance there this time.  Eventually I started searching on the internet and finally found one that convinced me our salvation wasn't based on any rituals we may or may not do in this life.

But that didn't stop me searching,  Looking back, I think the hell thing is what was really bothering me cuz I kept finding other problems with what the church taught.  Like once saved always saved, my church didn't believe that.  But I thought it had to be the truth because once you gained eternal life, how could you lose it????   or you wouldn't have it to begin with.  Anyway the next thing I knew I was a Calvinist from the sovereignty passages I kept coming upon in the articles I was reading.  But that was even worse, because in that line, God had preplanned people to go to hell.  So I started checking out universalism and while reading an article, I can't remember whose now, I just believed that because it seemed more like a loving God. Then I discovered that aion doesn't mean eternity, etc, but I believed in UR before I knew that.

I do remember crying though and feeling like God was talking to me personally. It probably was a period of 3-4 years with all this searciing.  Then one day it hit me, I remembered talking with a man years before in a Christian chat room who had tried to convince me that God would save everyone eventually, but at that time I wouldn't have any of it.  Pretty ironic, I think.

I was a bit disappointed that even in the universalist camp, there are still doctrinal disagreements, but it's ok.  I even was on a forum years ago where the guy who started it and some others beleived in reincarnation, too weird for me.  I guess we're all where we're supposed to be.  I tried to tell my sisters about my discovery but they weren't at all pleased and they think I'm wierd, to say the least, lol


Hope I didn't bore you with my long story.



Offline rosered

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2008, 02:47:44 PM »

 
  Hi Scarlet ,
 I for one loved your testimony sis .
 I to wondered about baptism ,  circumcision   the law etc , and even though I did lot of the rituals I felt nor different inside . I felt no power of God that said I should in the bible or life   , I felt worse  because I could not do all they asked of me , I was with 3 little ones no husband , he refused to go  to church  and  my baby girl was  born severely afflicted . I knew I needed God in my life , because I could not cope or go on  this way anylonger  , Life seemed pointless at that time in my life  and had grown weary of it all , desperate even . I searched for meaning  to it , and the people and preacher   did not like women period to speak at all in chruch , we were to always be quiet   
 and Hell was a constant  sermon  , with much blasting . I was glad God made a way of escape  , It became personal  with the Lord you could say under His wing ,"protected ' in a way  all I know is  we are grateful for His slavation  and it does not depend on  our dead works , but His live and holy ones working through us all as He allows  :cloud9:
 
 
   I have also found in UR so many different beliefs  as well  :mshock:
  I desire all  to be filled with  His righteousness  , but first we got to get  real hungry and thirsty first looking for Him , dont  you ?

ScarletWren

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2008, 05:07:25 PM »
Hello Rose Red,

Hungry is a great word.  That's what motivated me.  Driven even.  I would read Paul's epistles and one place it really seemed like he was saying God's love would encompass all and then a few verses later it seemed like if you didn't do such and such or stay this certain way, you were doomed.  I remember wanting to throw my Bible against the wall because how could we possibly, as Christians, do all that seemed required of us, let alone those who weren't blessed enough to be born in the right place, to the right parents, or where missionaries were preaching, etc.  He made us and knew how easy it was for us to be deceived, to fall into temptation which is all around etc etc.

It took me a long time to get to where I am, at rest, not finished yet but secure in the notion that He who started a good work in me, will finish it.  That God has a desire to the work of His hands.  But I did find some great help along the way.  I voraciously read online books by a man named Arlen Chitwood, who was not a universalist, but spoke of salvation of the soul and spirit.  He said that we are spiritually reborn at the moment of our faith in Him but that our soul takes a long time to be 'saved'.  That that's where works, etc comes in, and that the only loss we suffered if we 'blew it' was loss of rewards, etc.  Of course, he emphasized that these works weren't our works but what He would accomplish in and through us.  I also discovered a man named Chuck Misler who had many tapes and opened (of course it was God but He used Misler) my eyes to the types in the Old Testament and I loved that.  The book of Ruth, Jonah, began to have much more meaning to me.  In the universalist outlook, they even become deeper and more wide in scope.  So I would be comfortable for awhile. 

I suppose it is inevetible that there are wide differences in beliefs as to doctrines even amongst universalists and yet the salvation (restoration actually which is much more a thing of God's doing) is the glue which holds us together.  I was amazed when I found so many others believe this way, and more converting each day.  And still no voice do we carry in this country.  The church fears us more than atheists it seems. 

Rose, my husband would go to church, but he didn't like to actually sit through the service.  He would volunteer to count the money, etc.  He was physically there but not mentally.  Countless times when he was in the pew with me, he would lean over and whisper to me something he thought would be good for lunch or dinner, or some other thoughts.  It would sadden me.  He didn't take a spiritual leader role or talk about God with me.  He only went, in my opinion, because he thought it was a good thing for us to be there as a family for the sake of the kids.  Which I guess I should be thankful for.  My oldest, a son, was already living out here in Tucson when I started my journey, and my daughter was at the age when she wouldn't really talk to me about anything.  I tried to tell her some of what I have learned but I think it just confused her.  She is now 27 and doesn't go to church, hasn't even looked for one since moving out here to be near her brother and I.  My ex lost a lot when he left me, for now he has no one back in Ohio, he and his sister haven't been close for years and his father is in very poor health in his late 90's, not expected to live much longer. 

I have had some difficult battles with feelings of desertion and resentment but am slowly recovering.  I have an awful cold which started Friday so I'm not working today since I'm a caregiver working with elderly clients.  I don't get paid for sick days tho so it's a mixed feeling.  Happy to be home but wondering about the bills and Christmas.  I have to give it to the Lord and not worry. 

I get chatty sometimes, lol, ok a lot.   Just give me one ounce of encouragement and I will take off like a jackrabbit.   :bgdance:   :icon_flower:



Offline rosered

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2008, 07:59:27 PM »
 

  Hi Scarlet
  I find you posts  most refreshing and enjoyable  sis! 
 I really mean that ,
 Sorry to hear of your sickness , we are too having   some type of clod/flu thing  going on here  in Southern Ind .    weird weather   that is hard to get used to this time of year   it seems  :sigh:
 
  praying you get to feeling better soon dear .
  My Husband , now is the most precious thing  , we dont go to church  either  but we have some deep conversations about the Lord now , that  I know the Good Lord is doing 
 I honestly did not think we would make it  this far  :mshock:

  your hubby may realize he needs you in his life still , it hurts  when you still love some one and   have grown apart
  many years we struggled like that
  I never know  how I feel much less him  and our children are nearly grown ,  my baby boy is 18 and goes in the Air Force this spring , and I am crying  secretly already  , when I am alone ,
 I  find this world harsh at times , and I dont know How I would  cope without just talikng to God ,
 I  just read  the other day  How Jesus said, Father, I know you always hear me  and that stuck me  , in such a way .as never brfore
 
  That confidence  and faith , wow I have been on cloud nine since
  Thanking Jesus for letting me  hear the Spirit  speak  to me again
  it had been quite a  dry spell  , my bones were begining  dry up again inside lol
  I love the way you said  that about the soul being  longer to get saved , I so agree the very scriptures  witness that too !
  I have never heard of the fellows  you have mentioned  , but I will now !
  thank  you and God love ya sis  , I have really enjoyed this fellowship   with you today  :HeartThrob:
 
 Rose
 

ScarletWren

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Re: The SALVATION of ALL... how did GOD reveal it to you?
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2008, 11:13:03 PM »
Thank you Rose, again,

I have no thought of getting back together with my ex-husband.  He's back in Ohio and I've moved out here to Arizona. 

It's good that you can talk about your spiritual feelings with your husband.  Cherish that.

I'm sure we will have more to discuss in the future, lol.