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91
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by Seth on July 27, 2014, 05:38:28 AM »
I am trying to understand the definitions of the phrases we are using and how they differ. I still don't understand the difference between "free will" and "free choice." Is it possible to have a free choice without a free will? If so, how?

I am asking for an explanation, not a scripture without an explanation.

If our will was free we would not be bound by choice.

There are only options.  We can not will something that is not an option.

Started from the bottom up..................just talking.

 :winkgrin:

Yes, something must cause us to choose or we would ennie minnie minny moe our selfs nuts.

My idea is that a choice starts with the will. If the will is influenced by the invisible hand of God whether it be to allow them to be subject to the devil or himself, then the choice looks free, but is not free, because the will is not free. That's just how I think of it right now.
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by Seth on July 27, 2014, 05:34:22 AM »
Oh there is definitely a difference between will and choice, I agree. The will is a capacity to make a choice, the genesis of choice and a choice is the selection of two or more options.

My whole question had to do with what a FREE choice vs a FREE will, and whether you can make a free choice without a free will.
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by saintwalee on July 27, 2014, 05:30:39 AM »
I am trying to understand the definitions of the phrases we are using and how they differ. I still don't understand the difference between "free will" and "free choice." Is it possible to have a free choice without a free will? If so, how?
I am asking for an explanation, not a scripture without an explanation.


In the followoing Verse, the word willing is used regarding the Lord's will. In the YLT, "counseling" is used instead of "will".
2 Peter 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If we were to substitute the word "choosing" instead of "willing", does that change the meaning of the verse? It would seems to move it from a definite act to and act of decision. Does God need to make a decision that any should perish? Or is it more of a declaration of a King?

The word "will" has many usages, but for this, I am presenting it as a declaration as apposed to a choice. Within that context, I think the difference between the two is manifested.

Does the word Counsel shed any more light on this. From Websters dictionary "...
b :  a policy or plan of action or behavior"
From this, it would seem to indicate the same thing as "declaration", not as a choice. Put the word "planning" into the phrase "... not planning that any should perish". God's plan is that none should perish, so the same thought applies.

The difference is difficult to "see", but I think their is a difference between "will" and "choice".

Therefore, I don't think that man has his own will, his own declaration, or his own plan. I think that man is given choices within certain parameters in which to grow, as has been previously discussed. And as has also been pointed out, free will is not scriptural, but choice definitely is, a limited amount of free choice.

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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by dajomaco on July 26, 2014, 11:07:29 PM »
I think the greatest area of free will has to do with feelings.

God has overwhelmed the world with reasons to give thanks.

But as a matter of my free will I can thank him or not.

I give God a truly heartfelt thanks for this forum .
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by joeteekay on July 26, 2014, 11:06:39 PM »
A choice is made on the bases of a preference we have for something. It is the result of life experiences. I choose to buy a red car because I like the colour red.

The will we have is a desire for something.  Our will may be for something good or something bad. Does not lust come from a desire? Reminds me of chaper 1 of James.

Just my  :2c:
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by micah7:9 on July 26, 2014, 10:37:15 PM »
I am trying to understand the definitions of the phrases we are using and how they differ. I still don't understand the difference between "free will" and "free choice." Is it possible to have a free choice without a free will? If so, how?

I am asking for an explanation, not a scripture without an explanation.

If our will was free we would not be bound by choice.

There are only options.  We can not will something that is not an option.

Started from the bottom up..................just talking.

 :winkgrin:

Yes, something must cause us to choose or we would ennie minnie minny moe our selfs nuts.
97
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by micah7:9 on July 26, 2014, 10:26:18 PM »
I am trying to understand the definitions of the phrases we are using and how they differ. I still don't understand the difference between "free will" and "free choice." Is it possible to have a free choice without a free will? If so, how?

I am asking for an explanation, not a scripture without an explanation.

A choice is an option of two or more, to select. Now I am a man/human and I am told not to do something, I must choose to do or not to do, I have the will to do or not to do, but that will must have a trigger something that can cause me to make the choice. If my will to choose is free how can I choose when nothing is there to auction what impels me to make a choice?
 Free 1) not under the control of some other person or some arbitrary power, able to act or think without compulsion or arbitrary restriction; having liberty; independence.
What is pushing me to choose? What is there to cause me to choose? I'm free to choose but I don't know which one is better or worse, nothing has caused me to make a choice.

I got it, I understand it, I believe that there must be a cause for every action, I don't choose without some cause for me to chose. I may not be able to put in understandable words.
The boys didn't just dump Joseph in a hole without a cause, they made the choice to dump him in the hole because of the Lord's will, He was the cause of their choice.
Did Paul of his own "free" will just decide to preach Jesus, he just road down to Damscus and just free willed, by gosh I think I'll just start preaching this Jesus instead of killing the folks who believe, or was there a cause that directed his choice?
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by ed on July 26, 2014, 10:18:50 PM »
I am trying to understand the definitions of the phrases we are using and how they differ. I still don't understand the difference between "free will" and "free choice." Is it possible to have a free choice without a free will? If so, how?

I am asking for an explanation, not a scripture without an explanation.

If our will was free we would not be bound by choice.

There are only options.  We can not will something that is not an option.

Started from the bottom up..................just talking.

 :winkgrin:
99
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by Seth on July 26, 2014, 09:25:31 PM »
Also, if God has perfect foreknowledge doesn't he already know if Paul's admonition will be followed or not making their choices predetermined according to foreknowledge?
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by Seth on July 26, 2014, 09:21:06 PM »
I am trying to understand the definitions of the phrases we are using and how they differ. I still don't understand the difference between "free will" and "free choice." Is it possible to have a free choice without a free will? If so, how?

I am asking for an explanation, not a scripture without an explanation.

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