Recent Posts

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »
71
FORUM GUIDELINES and Admin Posts / Re: Forum Maintenance
« Last post by jabcat on December 19, 2014, 09:30:39 PM »
 :dsunny:
72
FORUM GUIDELINES and Admin Posts / Re: Forum Maintenance
« Last post by WhiteWings on December 19, 2014, 09:20:16 PM »
A saviour is near :-)
73
Christian Life / Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Last post by eaglesway on December 19, 2014, 09:12:42 PM »
IMO it is not that simple, and that is why we labor as we do to insure proper translation/rendering of original thoughts and words.

For instance, the Latin Vulgate translated Sheol/Hades into Inferno. This introduced the yoking together of a Latin mindset concerning death and judgment distinctly different from the Hebrew thought connected to the word sheol- introducing the concept of flames in sheol, which was never there in the hebrew scriptures. 1500 years later, the KJV translators were translating from an incorrect Latin mindset and rendered the words sheol and gehenna, "hell" - imparting and reaffirming the whole abysmally distorted view of the doctrine of eternal judgment.
74
FORUM GUIDELINES and Admin Posts / Re: Forum Maintenance
« Last post by jabcat on December 19, 2014, 09:04:37 PM »
thanks rose :)  yes they are

tony, i passed your suggestion about updating onto gary...he said the server is giving them fits and they're having trouble with support (in india now) and may change servers...he is contacting karen about a thing or two and we'll pass along pertinent info as it comes...thanks
http://www.arvixe.com/
It's for Karen and Gary to decide but Arvixe is cheap, flexible  and gets great user reviews on their support. I have only a tiny site but have been on their support forum. They are really on the problem. Servers are US based.

 :thumbsup:  Karen's on now working on some things..
75
Ok Rosey. It looks all so contradictory.

This church gets no compliment at all.
But Jesus knocks on their door to has her for marriage which is the biggest possible compliment.

Does Jesus wants a bride who's lukewarm, poor, blind and naked?

 :dontknow:
76
I'm not sure what's with Laodicea (the privileged church)
No matter their stupidity Jesus asks them to marry Him. (He knocks on the door)

Why lukewarm?
Lots of things of the seven churches are related to their history and geography. This church was in a city that had no water supply of its own. Via aqueducts it was supplied with hot and cold water coming from springs in neighboring cities. When the water arrived it was lukewarm. And it tasted bad because the aqueducts were polluted.

Of court geography isn't the main point of Jesus but it may give some hints.

The water came from far. Perhaps they were distant from the Teachings. They knew things. They heard things. But it was all second hand water/knowledge

Warm+cold=lukewarm = mixing teachings?
They had no own springs. Springs often stand for water of life.
300BC the city was renamed "people judge/opinion" but before that it was called "City of Zeus". When the letter was written the city was still a major Zeus worship center with lots of Roman/Greek philosophy.  In fact the church was just a tiny Christian island in pagan city. So that may have influenced the Christians. On on side they were truly Christian but on the other side they were affected by the paganism of the city.

  Yes !! Thanks Tony ,  that was what I was trying to say in other words , that there was so much mixing of the hot and cold  =lukewarm   and holy and profane =offspring  ?,     that it had become   confusion by mixing  of the two   that God   will always separate      /divide   /  thresh  /cast out /spew   

I will just put the whole thing up here .

  Babylon       Etymology and meaning of the name Babel
The Sumerian name of the city we know as Babel or Babylon was Bab-ilim, and that means Gate Of The Deity. But the Bible demands that our city was named Babel because YHWH did something to the common tongue. That something is conveyed by the somewhat similar Hebrew verb בלל (balal): "On account of this its name is called בבל Babel because YHWH balalled the speech of all the earth there" (Genesis 11:9):

Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary
בלל  יבל
The two root-verbs בלל (bll) and יבל (ybl) both have to do with a flowing or a conveying. Officially they're not related but their forms are certainly adjacent, and they produce similar derivations:
בלל
HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament says about the use of the Hebrew verb בלל (balal) in the Bible: "A ritualistic term used of mixing oil into the flour or meal of the cereal offering until every particle of flour was mingled or anointed with oil."
All but one of the occurrences of this verb have to do with mingling or mixing, and that usually of oil with flour (Exodus 29:2, Leviticus 2:4, Numbers 8:8). Only once is this verb used in the sense of anointing a human person: in Psalm 92:10 the Psalmist cries out, "Thou has exalted my horn like that of the wild ox; I have been anointed with fresh oil."
A curious and quite poetic usage occurs in Hosea 7:8, where Ephraim mixes himself among the peoples." Another off-par usage occurs in the tower of Babel cycle, where God "anoints" (or traditionally: confuses) the languages of the people (Genesis 11:7).
The derivatives of this verb are:
The masculine noun בליל (belil), meaning fodder (Isaiah 30:24, Job 6:5).
The verb בלל (balal), which is derived of the preceding noun and means to give fodder (Judges 19:21 only).
The masculine noun שבלול (shabbelul), meaning snail (Psalm 58:8). BDB Theological Dictionary suggests that the snail was known by this word on account of the oily residue it leaves where it goes. Words formed by sticking the letter ש (shin or sin) in front of a root are rare.
The masculine noun תבל (tebel), meaning confusion or perversion (Leviticus 18:23 and Leviticus 20:12 only).
The masculine noun תבלל (teballul), meaning confusion or obscurity (Leviticus 21:20 only).
יבל
The root-verb יבל (yabal) means to produce or denotes a being carried or dragged along by some greater force. It's used for offerings that are being carried along with the worshippers of YHWH (Zephaniah 3:10), or the "feet" or Tyre, that used to carry her to distant places (Isaiah 23:7). Returning exiles are lead home (Jeremiah 23:8, Isaiah 55:12) and Job laments him being carried from womb to tomb (Job 10:19).
This verb's derivatives are:
The masculine noun יבל (yabal), meaning water course or conduit. This word is used only in plural (Isaiah 30:25 and 44:4).
The masculine noun יובל (yubal), meaning stream (Jeremiah 17:8 only).
The masculine noun יבול (yebul), denoting produce from the soil (Deuteronomy 32:22, Habakkuk 3:17).
The masculine noun בול (bul), meaning produce or outgrowth (Job 40:20 and Isaiah 44:19 only).
The masculine noun יובל (yobel) or יבל (yobel), literally meaning "a carrier" or "a producer." It may denote a trumpet, i.e. ram's horn (Exodus 19:13, Joshua 6:5), but it may also denote the principle of Jubilee (because no, the year of Jubilee was not the year of the ram's horn, a ram's horn was a producer; Leviticus 25:13, Numbers 36:4).
The adjective יבל (yabbal), meaning running, in the sense of a running (suppurating) sore (Leviticus 22:22).
The masculine noun אובל ('ubal), meaning stream or river (Daniel 8:2-6 only; in reference to the river Ulai).
The feminine noun תבל (tebel), meaning world or land, probably primarily to be understood in the sense of its flows and currents; the economy, whether the natural or the financial one (Isaiah 24:4, Job 37:12, 2 Samuel 22:16). This word tebel is one of two regular words for world; the other is ארץ (eres). In Isaiah 14:17 תבל (tebel) is used once as a masculine noun.
Note
Note the connection between this root verb יבל (yabal) and the root group אבל ('abal) and the root שבל (shabal).
Associated Biblical names
⌂Abel-beth-maacah   אבל בית מעכה
⌂Abel-keramimאבל כרמים
⌂Abel-meholahאבל מחולה
⌂Abel-mizraimאבל מצרים
⌂Abel-craptimאבל השטים
⌂Babelבבל
Βαβυλων
≣Bulבול
⌂Ibleamיבלעם
♂Jabalיבל
♂Jubalיובל
≣Jubileeיובל
♂Obilאוביל
♂Tubalתובל
♂Tubal-cainתובל־קין
♂Zerubbabelזרבבל
Although the verb balal indicates a mixing, it does not suggest chaos. For a meaning of the name Babel, both Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names and NOBSE Study Bible Name List read Confusion, but if this name was derived of the verb balal it much rather means Anointment or Consecration.

Also note that the text of Genesis 11:9 does not at all suggest that the name בבל (Babel) was derived from the verb בלל (balal). All it says is that the place was called Gate Of The Deity because YHWH anointed the languages there.
77
I'm not sure what's with Laodicea (the privileged church)
No matter their stupidity Jesus asks them to marry Him. (He knocks on the door)

Why lukewarm?
Lots of things of the seven churches are related to their history and geography. This church was in a city that had no water supply of its own. Via aqueducts it was supplied with hot and cold water coming from springs in neighboring cities. When the water arrived it was lukewarm. And it tasted bad because the aqueducts were polluted.

Of court geography isn't the main point of Jesus but it may give some hints.

The water came from far. Perhaps they were distant from the Teachings. They knew things. They heard things. But it was all second hand water/knowledge

Warm+cold=lukewarm = mixing teachings?
They had no own springs. Springs often stand for water of life.
300BC the city was renamed "people judge/opinion" but before that it was called "City of Zeus". When the letter was written the city was still a major Zeus worship center with lots of Roman/Greek philosophy.  In fact the church was just a tiny Christian island in pagan city. So that may have influenced the Christians. On on side they were truly Christian but on the other side they were affected by the paganism of the city.


78
Just a thought.

The seven woman want the name of the man but besides of that they don't want a relationship with him.

Thinking out loud here.
Him is Jesus
7 women are 7 churches.

The churches all want the name CHRISTian but considering their flaws they just go their own way.
While the above is true for all 7 churches it may be to harsh for some, because some did quite ok.

 :dontknow:

  Thank you  Tony
  I do believe    our last day /LIGHT    woman   ,  is the one with the most    importance to us right now  , the   6th was the Philadelphian    Church of brotherly love   and these examples for us to follow    and  how did it get to Laodicea      victory of the people  or   (justice of the people ),  to become  such  a  lukewarm state   ?
 
  and the  threat of  rejection and spewing out of His mouth ?     

  they are in pitiful shape and yet believe they are covered and rich and  wealthy    ?    naked  and blind !!!
 
 Where they not  buying from Jesus but the  Babylon   spirit and were deceived into thinking it was the true   Woman/assembly     and Jesus  they had ? 

 
79
Christian Life / Jesus wasn't born in a stable
« Last post by WhiteWings on December 19, 2014, 06:54:52 PM »
My Christmas post.

Does the Bible really teach Jesus was born in a barn because nobody helped his parents after they found out there was no room in the inn? As so often church doctrine is very wrong.

Luke 2:4 And Joseph also went from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem....
Luke 2:6 And it happened as they were there the days were fulfilled for her to bear.

Read that verse closely: While they already in Bethlehem Mary was going trough her last days of pregnancy. Bethlehem wasn't a large town so it wouldn't have taken long to figure out there was no place to stay. We don't know how many days "the days" were but there is a fair chance they could have went to Zacharias and Elizabeth, who lived in the "hill country"  (Luke 1:39-40)

The hill country is quite large but the chances are that they lived quite near Jerusalem because Zacharias was a priest.

The region Jesus was born in, was big on hospitality. Even the Bible teaches about helping people out. As I will show hospitality was a major design factor of a house. Add to that the urgent needs of a pregnant woman and hospitality is even more obvious. Add to that the fact that Bethlehem was Joseph's home town he had to visit for the census. No family or friends that would help them?
Luke 2:3 And all went to be registered, each to his own city.
Luke 2:4 And Joseph .... because of his being of the house and family of David,


Joseph from the lineage of King David, visiting the town David was born and annoited in, would likely have made the people even more willing to help. To us a bloodline means very little. For those people is was just an extra reason for hospitality. So when pregnant woman and her husband who announced himselfs as "I am Joseph, son ofHeli, son of Matthat, the son of Levi" knocked on their door they would chose sleeping outside themselves over turning the couple away.

While all of the above is generally true it's obviously no conclusive proof that Jesus wasn't born in a barn. Perhaps they simply had no choice than to stay in a barn "until the days were fulfilled". That  would have been hat's way better than giving birth in the middle of the street.

Luckily there is proof in the Greek text and in the architecture of the houses at build at that time. In fact similar house were still found in the region late last century.


Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Luke 22:11 And you will say to the housemaster of that house, Our Master says to you, Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?


Inn = katalyma = guest room. Katalyma

It's a general term for all sorts of shelters but Jesus continues to define it as an "upper room". That is a major key to the sort of house.

Luke 2:12 And that one will show you a large upper room which he has furnished. Prepare there.

The good Samaritan takes the wounded man to a commercial inn because he pays the inn keeper. In this case the Greek word for inn is pandocheion, which means "all to-receive"

Luke 10:34 And coming near, he bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. And putting him on his donkey, he brought him to an inn and cared for him.
Luke 10:35 And on the dawn of the day he departed, taking out two denarii, he gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, Care for him, and whatever more you spend, on my return I will repay to you.





What happened is this: Joseph and Mary went to a private house. Likely unannounced because there were already guests staying in the guest room.
Below 4 drawings of what the majority of the houses in the area looked like.
A poor family always lived in a house with 3 rooms

Room A - Animals
This room was a place for the animals. Poor people had only a few animals so it was a rather small area. The animals were outside during daytime and in the evening they were kept indoors to keep them safe from wild animals and thief. In the winter their body heat, heated the house.
In Luke 13:10-17 Jesus is accused of healing a a woman on Sabbath. The English translation hides some of the beauty of the text.

10 And He was teaching in one of the synagogues on one of the Sabbaths.
11 And, behold, there was a woman having a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent together and was not able to straighten herself at all.
12 And seeing her, Yahshua called her near and said to her, Woman, you have been freed from your infirmity.
What's translated as 'freed' literally means 'untied'. Here Jesus is setting the stage for refuting His opponents even before they accused Him :-)

13 And He laid hands on her. And instantly she straightened herself and glorified Elohim.
14 But answering, being angry that Yahshua healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the crowd, There are six days in which it is right to work. Therefore, coming in these, be healed, and not on the Sabbath day.
15 Then the Master answered him and said, Hypocrite! Each one of you on the Sabbath, does he not untie his ox or his donkey from the manger in the house, and goes and waters it?
16 And this one being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound, lo, eighteen years, ought she not to be freed from this bond on the Sabbath day?
So Jesus refutes them by saying they also untied (animals) on Sabbath day.

17 And on His saying these things, all who were opposed to Him were ashamed. And all the crowd rejoiced over all the glorious things taking place by Him.
They were all ashamed, meaning all Jesus said was true.
"in the house" isn't part of any Greek text. An ninth century Arab speaking translator added those words just as the KJV adds many words in italics.
The reason I added this part is to show it's so highly logical to people in that area to have an animal indoors they just assume and add it to the translation.

Room B - Family room
This was the family room. Just one room for the whole family. Jesus was born in that room.
The type with the higher floor was handy because it was a few feet higher than the floor of the animals. That created a 'wall' that acted as a barrier for the animals. It was also handy for sweeping.

Room C - Guest room or Prophet's room
Earlier I wrote about the great hospitality being reflected in the way houses were build.
This room was only for guests. Such a tiny house had a room specially for guests. The room on the ground floor certainly was called a guest room. I'm not sure the room on the roof was also called a guest room or only a prophet's room. The name prophet's room originates from 1 Kings 17:19
Anyway when Joseph and Mary arrived this room -inn- was full.






The owners of the house could have sent Mary and Joseph or the other guests away. They didn't and invited them in their family room.
In two of the drawings you see a dashed line which is some framework separating the animal area from the people area.
In the other two drawings you see a few steps. The floor of the living room was a few feet above the floor of the stable. One big open area.
I think Jesus was born in this type of house because of the mangers.



There were several types of manger. A box either made out of wood or carved out of stone. That was mainly for sheep. The wooden manger was likely semi-portable so could in theory be placed in the middle of the living room.
Another type of manger was for oxen and other larger animals. A hole was carved out in the floor of the family room. The ox had to stand to eat from the manger.


What sort of house Jesus was in? It was a simple peasants house. But the type I don't know. In all sorts of Christmas displays Jesus is surrounded by animals but none are mentioned in the Gospels. If there were really animals, the type of house could be narrowed down a bit.
That said I really doubt a mother would put a baby in a manger surrounded by animals that can do all sorts of harm to the baby.

My guess is a wooden portable manger put somewhere in the family room.
80
I think folks here are sooooooo much into deeper meanings that sometimes a simple, literal explanation is neglected.  I see this passage as pertaining to a time future to the writer, when most of the men of Israel (not Jews) are dead, and most women are widows.  It could refer to the Assyrian captivity or the Babylonian captivity, both of which involved the military defeat of Israel.  Both actions would have left a lot of widows.

  I know ,  for that generation     its a truth ,  but there is something very  deep seated in this  LAZ  , and want to  bring it all out  in the open
  I have been so     , I am going to use the word "unsettled"      ,     when you get to settled in something you get   " stagnate "   
 
 
 This  is  something   I really  have to do ...  and do not know why ?   
 
  There is a lot more to learning   the patterns and  why they are important  , 
 God could have left all this stuff out     and made it so very    easy ,     being ONE IN CHRIST
 
 and that was all   , but the warning of      Babylon is very  significant  right now  and to know just what your dealing with .   
 

There is so much hidden and deep  meanings   to make us rock solid in Jesus Christ   OUR ROCK and to me  , this might just be me , they are very important  to  understand , not just know  it   , to me there is a difference   between   knowing something and understanding  what you know

Nothing is impossible with God           :HeartThrob:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »