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Word Studies / Re: Hidden Message in the Sun
« Last post by eaglesway on August 01, 2015, 08:55:58 PM »
For this reason i bow my knees before the Father....that you may be strengthened with might by His spirit in your inner man...being rooted and grounded in love...that you might kno what is the height and depth and bredth of the love of Christ....and be filled up to all the fulness of God.
Word Studies / Re: Hidden Message in the Sun
« Last post by sheila on August 01, 2015, 05:57:57 PM »
face to face....Rev 1;18  His face was like the sun..shining in all it's brilliance.
Word Studies / Hidden Message in the Sun
« Last post by gregoryfl on August 01, 2015, 04:48:33 PM »
The word for 'sun' in Hebrew and Aramaic is שמש (shemesh). It is based on the marriage root שם, which means 'to ripple'.

There are many words that share this root:

שמ (shem) meaning 'ripple', otherwise known as the 'name' of something.
שמ (sham) meaning 'rippled area', otherwise known as 'there'.
שמיים (shamayim) meaning 'dual rippled place' (place that ripples between between two waters) otherwise known as 'heaven'.
שמע (sh'ma) meaning 'ripple up', otherwise known as 'hear'.
שמונה (shemuneh) meaning 'rippled outward number', otherwise known as 'eight'.

Then we have our word for sun, which is:
שמש (shemesh) meaning 'ripple out thing'.

There are more examples, but these should suffice for now. What they all have in common is the action of a ripple. What is a ripple? It is an action that takes place from a certain point, and radiates as a ripple outward from there in all directions, affecting all in its path.

There is so much teaching and depth here, so much to say, but I just wanted to focus on the one aspect concerning the sun, what it does, and how it reveals to us a hidden meaning that applies to us all. The sun radiates energy from itself, in a form that looks like ripples (on a clear hot day) in the sky. Whatever is contained in a ripple is not kept to itself, but instead is distributed to everything around it. This is why the sun is so beneficial, for it does not keeps its light and warmth to itself, but shares it with us on the earth. So what is the hidden meaning? I think we can already see it, visualize it, but here is another word that will complete the picture. It too, is a word, used once in Scripture, that also has the letters שמש, although pronounced slightly different, as 'shemash'. This word is found in Dan 7:10, where it refers to a thousand thousands 'ministering' to the Ancient of Days on his throne.

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousands of thousands ministered [שמש shemash] to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

See the connection between what the sun does, and what these thousands were doing? There is nothing selfish in them, but in their ministering they are focused on affecting the one they are ministering to. They are other-centered. Incidentally, this rippling action is the true meaning of what it means to be 'named'. To the ancient eastern mind, a name was something characterizing either the person, or something that happened or would happen related to that person. A name, in truth, is a ripple, either for good or bad. What name will we make for ourselves? One that centered on self, or one that is centered on God in Messiah, and by extension, to everyone around us? Either way, once the ripple starts it cannot be stopped. May we all think and meditate carefully on how we live.

Humor-Poems-Songs-Movies / Re: Leaning on the Everlasting Arms
« Last post by Dandelion on August 01, 2015, 03:52:41 PM »
Nice song, jabcat.

I had never heard that song before. I love the combination of the song, melody, voice and pictures.

I felt transported to another place and time, while watching the video.

Thank you.

Christian Life / Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Last post by gregoryfl on August 01, 2015, 03:25:02 PM »
Thank you Shev, for sharing the alternative understanding from Mr. Jenkins. I have read it myself, as part of keeping familiar with every possible way of understanding a subject. There will probably always be debate as to who spoke what, and where. That is why I have been posting my findings as I work through the text, comparing the variations found in the footnotes of my Greek New Testament by Kurt Aland , with my Aramaic Peshiyta Text With Hebrew Translation. I believe that the texts will speak for themselves and shed light on this subject. I have not yet gotten into the Pauline Epistles, with the exception of the example I provide from Romans 5, but have been trying to move through the text in order, with the exceptions I have happened to come across in casual reading, or at someone's request. Because I am still primarily working on my Sensory Translation of the Scriptures, my progress on this other project is rather slow, but I do update it as I come across more information.

Humor-Poems-Songs-Movies / Leaning on the Everlasting Arms
« Last post by jabcat on August 01, 2015, 10:47:37 AM »
Interestingly I felt led to post this song for brother micah, thinking we could all use the reminder as well.  I came on to do it and saw that Dandelion had also posted a song for micah in the "in the valley" thread;  "blessings", which is a very cool song.

Going ahead and posting this one too;     Amen.

Being from the cotton fields of Southeast Missouri myself, and you from the Razorback state, I think we can both appreciate this version micah :)     :dsunny:

Lounge / Re: Genetics Finds Adam & Eve
« Last post by Dandelion on August 01, 2015, 10:02:20 AM »
Sorry, I didn't read your article yet, but I heard about this.

I don't know about you, but it warms my heart to realize science knows this amazing and magnificent truth now, too.

We all are from the same family. We belong to one another.


Welcome, HungerForTruth,

I am glad you are enjoying the am I.

I am a very recent 'convert' to UR. I am a former Catholic, presently an LCMS Lutheran Deacon and rostered teacher. I am also involved with a few Christian ministries.

I understand your concern to discuss your beliefs with your church. I, too, am thinking about how I am going to approach my Christian friends, Ministries, and Church, in regard to sharing my present beliefs.  I realize that life, as I know it, will probably not be the same.

However, the truth will set us free.......we must, as I see it, seek the truth, always, just as the salmon must swim upstream, against all odds and for whatever the cost. And, yes, share it, as well.

It is one of our highest callings as a Christian, to do so.

2 Timothy 1:
6For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline. 8Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,

I believe this Bible quote is a good place for us to start. We will have His love, strength, guidance, wisdom and guide us. And, we know that that must and always is much more than sufficient.

I will be praying for you.

God be with you on your journey.

Christian Life / Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Last post by WhiteWings on August 01, 2015, 09:08:07 AM »
Quick reply Shev. A short holiday started today and I already should have been in my car. I hope I don't overlook things and jump to wrong conclusions.

I appreciate your responses, WW.

I notice that many examples of idioms that are traced back come from the gospels (for instance, going through the ten pages in the link Ronen provided, I believe most were from Matthew and Mark, with a few from Luke, John, Acts and Revelation). There is no doubt that most of the time Jesus was speaking, He was speaking in Aramaic (though I believe He must have known Greek too). So I completely concede that even if any or all of the gospels were written in Greek, they would as a matter of course have an Aramaic base, owing to the language that was being spoken.
I'm glad we have agreement on this.

Again, my contention is as to what language these oral traditions were set down in, and I do concede that there is a certain size spectrum of Greek/Aramaic likelihood across the twenty seven books, which of course were not written as one unit, but were written with one Spirit.

And that Spirit isn't bound by language or culture. Well bound by the culture of truth.
Your view is that the first books (possibly) were originally in Hebrew but the other books very likely were Greek from the very start.
You also agree the first books at least have a Hebrew/Aramiac mindset. (which in my opinion is a very important point)
Now my question/thought is this: The Holy Spirit inspired the whole OT with a Hebrew mindset. The Holy Spirit also inspired some NT books with a Hebrew mindset - the ones originally written in Hebrew.
That's 1000's of year of Hebrew inspiration. A large percentage of all Scripture.
Would that very same Holy Spirit change it's approach and for the remainder of the NT inspire with a Greek mindset?
I think not.
I even think it's impossible because the "Greek teaching" are not some new invention. They reference all the previous books written in Hebrew.
Not exactly because the books were not finished yet but I'm sure you get my idea.
So Holy Spirit switched language; also mindset?

What exactly is the Greek mindset? That's a very difficult thing to answer imo. Lexicons show part of it. They show the meaning of words. Those words partly show how the ancients (possibly) understood the Teachings.
But the lexicons were written after lots of paganism crept in.
One example: Only in 288AD torment got the meaning of torture.
But many understand torment as torture by using the most recent definition that's listed as the primary meaning. So our culture is injected into the Greek culture at that time. Wrong.

That being said, almost every epistle of Paul is written to the Gentiles (depending on your views of Hebrews authorship) and in the book of Acts he is often addressing Gentiles verbally too. So then, if his original words quoted were uttered in Koine, then we have Greek being the base tongue for whatever he says, with no translation from Aramaic at all. Paul was multilingual, and people who are fluent in more than one language do not have to think of something in one language, translate it in their head, and then speak it in the second language, but rather they are able to think in whichever language they are fluent in. So Paul would have been able to have Greek thoughts, spoken in Greek, written in Greek, to a Greek/Gentile audience, all describing the good news of Jesus Christ. In this case, the only Hebrew coloring comes from the genetics of Paul's natural mind, so to speak. So for instance, when Paul spoke to the Greeks in Athens, he would have been carried along by the Spirit to make utterances in Greek that were fully spiritual, and in no way needed the help of Aramaic to make them so.
If the Greeks, or anyone is guided by the spirit they indeed need no other guide.
But the text can still be misunderstood wrong by those who do not get help from HS. IMO a good guard against error is read in the light of culture. While Paul spoke and tough in Greek every fiber of Paul was fully Hebrew culture. His thought patterns didn't become pagan when speaking in Greek.
A prime example (in my mind) is Revelation. I think it's following certain 'Hebrew patterns'. One of them is the daily Temple routine when it still stood. It uses Temple terminology. Prime example is LoF. Greek culture paganized it into a torture pit while the Hebrew mindset sees it as utter purification (LoF is a Temple vessel).

So fluent Greek takes you nowhere with the proper background. (no pun intended Laz)

Greek had already been so ingrained as the common tongue by the time of Jesus,
Seems so; but at the same times rabbi's wrote things like "I rather eat swine than speak Greek"  :winkgrin:

You said:

And those things were are understood with a Jewish mind. Jesus only gave sermons to Jews, not gentiles.

Point taken as far as Jesus giving sermons to Jews, and of course insights into their language will help with idioms, but I would contend that we don't need a Jewish mind to understand His sermons, any more than Jews need a Greek mind to understand what the Spirit says to the seven Greek speaking churches in Revelation.
Sorry, I have to disagree Laz.

You said:

He's also limited by the strong and weak points of any language.

I agree with this to a point - some languages are without contradiction more primitive than others.
Maybe so, but that not even what I meant.
Assume Hebrew has 100 strong points. Greek has 200 strong points. That makes Greek the superior language. But Greek still lacks when treading the area of the 100 Hebrew strong points that may be weak Greek points.
So when translating there are problems.
Christian Life / Re: The New Testament was written in Hebrew (not Greek)
« Last post by WhiteWings on August 01, 2015, 08:26:36 AM »
Idiom #63 - Shoe/sandal

Ps 108:9 Moab is my wash pot; over Edom will I cast out my shoe; over Philistia will I triumph.

Shoe is symbol of ownership.
Pieces of land were marked of with old sandals.
The third of the four covenants is called the sandal or inheritance covenant.
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