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Oh my!! yes, we can know them by their fruit!

Yes there are other Hebrew writings.. which if one reads them it's not hard to see they were not inspired by God's Holy Spirit.. not that they are 100% error.. but not, it seems to me, the Word of God.. which of course the KJ is not the best or closest translation of.. the errors being one or two (in translation!)

Thank You Jesus for being the "radiance of the Father's glory and the exact representation of His nature. Your love always shining through to give "the light of the knowledgfe of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

"His face was like the sun shining in its strength"

That light is LOVE! :o)

  Amen! :dsunny: :iagree: :banana:
Word Studies / Re: The Etymological Fallacy
« Last post by Seth on July 24, 2014, 06:44:42 PM »
BTW, this is not to suggest that etymology shouldn't be used in understanding the evolution of words, but as far as intended meaning, more study is needed than only looking at the etymology, like the cultural usage of the word at the time of speaking, the context of the sentences, how the word is used in other places etc etc.
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: The Eons in the Sacred Scriptures
« Last post by marie glen on July 24, 2014, 06:37:53 PM »
In the Sacred Scriptures we have the longest segments of time called the eons.

Each new eon comes as a result of a world-wide catastrophe.

For instance, as far as we know, there are five eons. How can we know this? We look for world-wide cataclysmic events in the Scriptures.

The Bible talks about eons in the past. If we look in what is commonly called "The Old Testament" we find two world-wide catastrophes: Genesis 1:2a where the earth became chaos and vacant, and Genesis 7 where we have the world-wide flood. Only these two events mark the two eons.

If the flood of Noah's day was only a local flood in the Mesopotamian valley, it would not be a world-wide catastrophe and thus not present us with a new eon.
So we are now living in third eon called  "the present wicked eon" (Galatians 1:4) (Some per-versions of Galatians 1:4 have it as  "present evil world".)

The Scriptures reveal to us two future eons. So where are the world-wide catastrophes which inaugurate these two future eons?
At the end of this present wicked eon we have this:

Rev 16:18,19 And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred. And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great. And the great city came to be divided into three parts; and the cities of the nations fall.

 That world-wide catastrophe brings about the millennial reign of Christ. Yes, Christ is coming back to a wrecked earth. If you thought the collapse of the Word Trade Center in New York brought about some changes in the world, wait till all the cities of the nations fall. It could result in many nuclear reactors failing to the point of creating many melt-downs. Water towers falling where no one can get fresh water. Power lines falling causing many to have no electricity. Bridges collapsing causing farmers not able to bring produce to stores or people able to get to stores. The entire banking systems will fail.

Then that eon (the millennial reign of Christ) ends with the world-wide conflagration. The New City Jerusalem lands on a parched earth in the fifth eon.

What is nice to know is that when this eon in which we are living ends with a great world-wide catastrophe, Christ comes back to save humanity in that destructive time.


How very interesting! I certainly agree with some of that.. and what a very nice post written by Rosered!!

I'm afraid that's about as far as I got however.. :smile:

 :Chinscratch: ..let me see, how have I thought of it... ages and transitions / big change, but imo, not necessarily catastrophe.. in all cases..?

..that Gen 1:2 was simply the 'dry' elements.. and the flood ended an age because of how it says every living and breathing thing on the earth gone..{#1 to flood/catastrophe}..?

Then the languages were confused before mankind could wreak enough havoc to self destruct, waay before God's lesson would be totally proven..{#2 til languages confused & dispersion mankind} begining the age Abraham would be in..? {til after the life and etc of Jesus-#3 }

which especially after 70A.D. is the age of 'Christendom'{3} which has been turned on its ear by the false prophet/teaching.. but the years of our Lord a.d starting with the conquering gospel which continues its ride throughout this latter age of mankind..

til the beginning of the long 2nd advent{#4} at His return (represented by the Fall Holy Day of Trumpets) the age of the millenium{4} (imo).. Then at the great 2nd resurrection, the day/age{#5} of the great judgment and review/study of all human history (satan in LOF for this age{5} and age{6} a two fold process?) and some stubborn holdouts find their way to the lake of fire for age{#6??} until the last when God comes to Tabernacle{#7} with mankind and makes all things new{7, the last enemy vanquished is death, Sabbath/Holy Day/age/ of eternity?}

Peace! :Peace2:
Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Psalms 55 Hell?
« Last post by Seth on July 24, 2014, 06:36:43 PM »
..the state of sleeping in death? that would be my thought.. :smile:

I would agree. Words are not always concrete in the way they are used. Sheol can mean something different from the grave but also can be used interchangeably. For example, in the news you see how it often says "The White House claims that all their hard drives have suddenly crashed and nobody knows how it happened." The White House didn't literally claim that but the term is used interchangeably for "The President" or his spokespeople. Same thing can happen with Sheol and the grave.
Word Studies / The Etymological Fallacy
« Last post by Seth on July 24, 2014, 06:30:27 PM »
Hello all. I came across this information as I was studying UR, and thought I would share it with you.

The Etymological Fallacy

Description: The assumption that the present day meaning of a word should be/is similar to the historical meaning.  This fallacy ignores the evolution of language and heart of linguistics.  This fallacy is usually committed when one finds the historical meaning of a word more palatable or conducive to his or her argument.

Logical Form:

X is defined as Y.
X used to be defined as Z.
Therefore, X means Z.

Example #1:
Elba: I can't believe the art critic said my artwork is awful!
Rowena: He must have meant it in the old sense of the word -- that your artwork inspired awe!
Elba: Yes!  That makes sense now!
Explanation: "Awful" did once mean "to inspire awe", but there are very few, if any, people who continue to use the term in this way.  Just because it makes her feel better, it cannot be assumed.

Example #2:
Steve: I think it is fantastic that you and Sylvia are getting married!
Chuck: I cannot believe you think my getting married only exists in my imagination!  That is what fantastic means, after all.
Explanation: Yes, it is true "fantastic" was once most commonly used as existing only in the imagination, but common use of this word has a very different definition.

Exception: If a bogus, "modern", definition is made up by a questionable source, that won't make all other sources "historical".


The etymological fallacy is a genetic fallacy that holds, erroneously, that the present-day meaning of a word or phrase should necessarily be similar to its historical meaning. This is a linguistic misconception, and is sometimes used as a basis for linguistic prescription. An argument constitutes an etymological fallacy if it makes a claim about the present meaning of a word based exclusively on its etymology. This does not, however, show that etymology is irrelevant in any way, nor does it attempt to prove such.

A variant of the etymological fallacy involves looking for the "true" meaning of words by delving into their etymologies, or claiming that a word should be used in a particular way because it has a particular etymology. A similar concept is that of false friends.
Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Psalms 55 Hell?
« Last post by eaglesway on July 24, 2014, 06:12:06 PM »
Gregoryfl -Quote........"It was considered in those days to be beneath the earth, and since only the dead went there,"

Sounds a lot like the grave. :o)

IMO, Sheol is often used as a euphemism for "the grave", speaking cryptically of death.
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: The Eons in the Sacred Scriptures
« Last post by Tony N on July 24, 2014, 06:11:38 PM »
It seems to me there was also a change in government after each of these eonian transitions.

That is true!
Not to mention Satan blinds them to the truth.
Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Psalms 55 Hell?
« Last post by marie glen on July 24, 2014, 05:38:25 PM »
..the state of sleeping in death? that would be my thought.. :smile:

"But the Scripture which crowns all, and the last which I shall bring into proof, is Revelation 5:13. Here all creation is at Christ's feet, and that not with tears in their eyes, or petitions in their hands, not with crying or supplications or weeping because things were hidden and kept secret; but with joy in their hearts, and praises in their mouths; with melody on their lips, and hallelujahs on their tongues; with looks and countenances full of satisfaction and delight; and their faces, instead of gathering blackness, turning into paleness, or being covered with shame and confusion (as once was the case with some of them) they all now shine as the sun, replete with light, life and love, full of ecstasy and rapture. And that because the book written within and on the backside, and sealed with seven seals, is now opened and unsealed, and all things revealed and explained: their own cases particularly unfolded to their view, with all the ways and means their loving Saviour took to bring them to the situation they are now in, with other miracles of grace and love.

Where then there is universal praise and thanksgiving, universal harmony and love, and both heaven and earth sounding and resounding acclamations of joy and peace, there must be universal salvation."
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