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..the parable of Lazarus, to me, is an illustration of the Day of Judgment - the comparison of the state of those of the first resurrection (of all believers when immortality and incorruptibility is "put on" :banana: ) and the 2nd resurrection "a thousand years later" (Rev 20:7,11) of all those who "died in their sins" (still in their sins, not yet reconciled/redeemed) ..resurrection of light and resurrection of darkness / still in darkness..

I believe, in that age (the 'day' of judgment) there will be a great gulf which cannot be breached until one realizes and (joyously) accepts the atonement/reconciliation..

[Also, the "darkness" of Rev 22:15, i believe, is spoken to them and us in "this day" and not referring to ultimate reality/the eternal ages future once God has become "all in all" - altho for ever, it is true that apart or wandering off or away from God, is darkness, a bottomless pit of potential :eek:]

  I believe you done a  beautiful job of perceiving this   Dandelion   
  With   new and spiritual eyes of understanding   His Light  , knowledge  of Him     :HeartThrob:
  Blessed is he who is in the first resurrection   for the second death has no power over you .  He is now the Power in You  " greater is He who is in you" than in the world [evil one in the world ] .
     death  will not harm you
  harm is what happens at the  second death
    The first resurrection     is the same as the Lord   Jesus Christ     death , baptism     was the cross   and if we do as He commands  and take up our cross and      follow Him,wearing the crown of thorns, and suffering for the Kingdoms sake    ,  we to will also   receive the crown of Life       "  to me this is the mind of Christ     "
  Jesus   was   tormented and  despised  the shame,   this crown of thorns     of the beastly mankind   "mind of carnality "   ruling and reigning  worldly men in worldly wisdom    that is earthly sensual and devilish ,  that is the enmity against the Spirit of Love   to which   JESUS CHRIST IS KING  Ruler

   the humility  was   HE BORE  OUR SINS    IN HIS OWN FLESH  ,,, And suffered  greatly  for it    as innocent   as can be ...    without a word against them , but forgiving them    for they  do not know what they are doing  before the Father .....      the darkness and ignorance of carnal men , I am  one who He died for being   so carnal  and earthly   bound 

 Paul even experienced   a thorn in his flesh as a messenger of satan to   strike him    and suffered the humility  ,  we are to count this  persecution as  joy   one day     but Gods grace was covering  all , Paul and the messenger  of satan  as  Paul prayed for the removal   of the thorn in his flesh
  the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak

 It is a change only He can do  by His power   and HOLY SPIRIT      may we   all stay willing and obedient  to His HOLY desire that none  should  perish .
 I thank God for changing me from that carnal   in nature  to the spiritual in nature  as a process   by discerning  between the two natures   of good and evil   , JESUS IS OUR PEACE
From the clutches of the evil one to the HOLY ONE   , HE IS AN  EXCELLENT  LORD , SHEPHERD  AND KEEPER of the sheep ..
 This just  my  personal   view    dear ,   we all have our views   of the Lord Jesus Christ    and how we see Him   :HeartThrob:
TESTIMONIES (testify here!) / Re: everyday I see this forum title, so...
« Last post by rosered on May 27, 2015, 02:26:36 PM »
wow I did not know this was here Marie
    Caffus ,  thanks for pulling this back out into the light to be seen    again
  Great testimony /witness      Marie     :dsunny:
 I have learned  a big part of the healing   process is   craving  Him ,  the hunger and thirst   for more of HIM and his righteousness     after you haves tasted Gods goodness  ..... TASTE AND SEE THAT THE LORD IS GOOD ~ PSALM 34:8
   We have   come to   Eat HIS BODY]bread of heaven ] and drink His blood[ wine   for the stomachs sake of our constant  sin  sickness ]  that we might also have Life in us , by the Spirit of LOVING TRUTH    staying with us

1Tim 5

 22Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others;

 keep yourself free from sin.
 23No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

 24The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after.
 It is the stomach that the book becomes bitter  , but so sweet on our lips   
   we  remain   humbled   and prayerful in order to   receive    of God unless we also stumble    a fall into temptation and error  , lead astray    ..   
  In order to overcome the world,  we must   remain  with Christ  dwelling  in us  to the end ...  For He is faithful  as promised   , our loyalty and obedience is to Him
 23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass. 25Brethren, pray for us.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Thessalonians 2:12
encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.
Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: John 20:23
« Last post by rosered on May 27, 2015, 02:02:15 PM »

 I do love what you shared  JOHN  and can sure see this as well     :thumbsup:     

For me,  I can also see     this way back in the old testament  being a pattern   ,  as   the salt covenant  God made  with  David  as everlasting   still to this day   under    the HOLY NAME    being   through Jesus Christ .   
 As the chastening ,  being  correction though  the  rods of men and  stripes of men , Paul also mentions this when He speaks of His stripes  being   39 lashes of men     for Christ sake       as well as should we come with rods /correction or  with Love   to one church 2 Corinthians 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

 There is no name  under heaven by which you must be saved ....  the royal priesthood 1 Peter 2   being  the  meat offering as Gods will eat my body and drink my blood that you may have life in you 8and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed. 9But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
  Jesus even mentions this   every sacrifice [meat  offering being what Jesus said," I have meat you know not of "" it is to do His will ] A PRIEST    salt  being humility ,   seasoned  with fire  ,
  But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Ezekiel 43:24
You are to offer them before the LORD, and the priests are to sprinkle salt on them and sacrifice them as a burnt offering to the LORD.

Matthew 5:13
"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Mark 9:48
where "'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.'  Everyone is salted with Fire
"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can you make it salty again? Have salt among yourselves, and be at peace with each other."

For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

(2 Chronicles 13:5) "Ought ye not to know that the LORD God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?"

 "covenant of salt" is mentioned three times in the Scriptures of Old .

(Numbers 18:19) "All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer unto the LORD, have I given thee, and thy sons and thy daughters with thee, by a statute for ever: it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD unto thee and to thy seed with thee."

 (Leviticus 2:13) "And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt."
By His stripes healed   being given by the   rods of men and stripes of men  being the  Suffering Servant   of ALL ..and Greatest of the Kingdom of  GOD

  Isaiah 53
4Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried;

 Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.

 5But He was pierced through for our transgressions,

 He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening   stripes  for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

6All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

  Rods of men are the chastening of   the salt covenant  for always   ,    though your suffering   for them , they become  healed ....

Jesus  shows this openly  on the CROSS   and we are also take up our cross   and follow His example   to become the servant of all   mankind   also and   be an intercessor[praying ]   on their behalf before GOD  as being in the BODY OF CHRIST     [HE IS THE HEAD ]authority    as priestly  role   also   Paul shows this high calling by    becoming all things to all men  that by which he might save some   in the  here and now     as    the SPIRIT of  LOVE bridges the gap     
LOVE being the sacrifice     

and  building the tabernacle of God is   HIM dwelling among us      building a holy city and   mountain  /Kingdom    as Christ Body  enlarges by the increase   of God

calling the mortal bodies tents   ,    but the SPIRITUAL BODY HIS DWELLING PLACE   

Here in 2 Samuel 7     God told Nathan   meaning "Gift from God"      to the" Beloved" =   David   

 4 But that same night the word of the Lord came to Nathan,

 5 "Go and tell my servant David, 'Thus says the Lord: Would you build me a house to dwell in?

 6 I have not lived in a house since the day I brought up the people of Israel from Egypt to this day, but I have been moving about in a tent for my dwelling.

7 In all places where I have moved with all the people of Israel, did I speak a word with any of the judges of Israel,

 whom I commanded to shepherd my people Israel, saying, "Why have you not built me a house of cedar?"'

8 Now, therefore, thus you shall say to my servant David,

 'Thus says the Lord of hosts, I took you from the pasture, from following the sheep, that you should be prince over my people Israel.

9 And I have been with you wherever you went and have cut off all your enemies from before you.

 And I will make for you a great name, like the name of the great ones of the earth.

10 And I will appoint a place for my people Israel and will plant them, so that they may dwell in their own place and be disturbed no more.

And violent men shall afflict them no more, as formerly,

11 from the time that I appointed judges over my people Israel.

 And I will give you rest from all your enemies.

Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. NAME BEING   THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ...

12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.

 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son.

 When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men,

15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you.

16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me.Your throne shall be established forever.'"

17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David.
And   this is what I am seeing in this , because JESUS never sinned or committed iniquity , but we do  , and it  this the scriptures  goes  with  it

   when one member of the body suffers we all suffer   , it is the same as  doing it to the Lord    , those stripes    heal us   

   25so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.

26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.

Matthew 3:15
Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into Gehenna ....

 the fire of affliction Isaiah 48 ;10   9"For the sake of My name I delay My wrath, And for My praise I restrain it for you, In order not to cut you off. 10"Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. 11"For My own sake, for My own sake, I will act; For how can My name be profaned? And My glory I will not give to another.

1 Corinthians 12:25
so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.

1 Corinthians 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honored, all the members rejoice with it.

Romans 12:15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.

2 Corinthians 11:28,29 Beside those things that are without, that which comes on me daily,

Galatians 6:2 Bear you one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Hebrews 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which

The binding and loosing  on earth as it is in heaven  ,    to hold as a  servant  and  to    let free as sons of God  ...

1 Peter 3:8 Finally, be you all of one mind, having compassion one of another,     the mind is Christ and in obedience to the will of God     and learned obedience though the things he suffered in the days of His flesh      HEBREWS 5 The Perfect High Priestand those chosen   to be in His body  as perfect complete

7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. 8 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. 9And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,     
we also learn obedience    though the things we suffer  in the days of our own flesh    unless we be reprobates   and not sons   

    4For indeed He was crucified because of weakness,

yet He lives because of the power of God.

 For we also are weak in Him, yet we will live with Him because of the power of God directed toward you.

 5Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test? 6But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.
  His flesh is the vail  that was torn from top to bottom     in the day he ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND OPENED HEAVEN FOR ALL   to enter    that  would be healed and willing    to come to Him   that He might be found in you ..   
 I am always amazed     at  the Lord Jesus Christ   and how merciful   He proves  to be   always .     
Absolutely beautiful poem. I have had similar thoughts, but not as eloquent. Even vessels of dishonor will be used to reveal the riches of God's grace. No need to worry. This is mankind's future. God will not lose one, and as I have read, all will be brought into the Father's house of love and comfort. With groaning I wait.

"As hostile and objectionable our dear brethren may be, there are answers and explanations for every argument and/or insinuation presented against the undeniable fact, That God indeed is a God 'Who will have all men to be saved, and come into a knowledge of the truth (1Tim. 2:4). As greatly as man and their religious attempt to fight this utterly dynamic evangel (good news), God shall eventually be All in all (1Cor. 15:28)."

"But God is in no hurry. He has specific eons, and administrations within the eons, to fulfill His universal purpose and intention of universal reconciliation. All came out of Christ, including Adam. Consequently all shall be restored by and through Christ, 'yet each in his own class' (1Cor. 15:23)."

When clouds of confusion gather regarding God's plan for mankind, and despair come showering down upon our studies, turn to God's word originally rendered, then, like a searchlight in the darkness of night, His love, and His light of understanding will surely beam forth. God will not allow any to be eternally lost. He is a loving Creator, working out His purpose for the universe, Who will get love from all in return, so that He can and will be 'ALL in all,' to all, 'later.'"
TESTIMONIES (testify here!) / Re: everyday I see this forum title, so...
« Last post by Caffus on May 27, 2015, 06:58:18 AM »
Thank you for sharing, God bless you  :HeartThrob:
17On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18Now Bethany was less than two milesb from Jerusalem, 19and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

21"Lord," Martha said to Jesus, "if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask."

23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11: 17 - 26

In light of my recent exploration of UR, it seems to me to be saying that some will pass from this life to the next, in faith, without dying, and others will have to 'die' in a different way, and then be saved. To me, this fits right in with what I am learning about the meaning of our purification, before the 'all in all' occurs.

I often thought of this as a strange passage, in the way it is said, but all of a sudden, it makes perfect sense to me now.

Any thoughts, folks? 
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority......

......18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: John 20:23
« Last post by eaglesway on May 27, 2015, 05:36:02 AM »
Jesus said, What is the difference if I say rise u and walk or your sins are forgiven you? But so you know the son of man has been given the authority on earth to forgive sin...... take up your bed and walk.(close I think from memory)

James said, "Are their any sick among you? Let them call upon the elders of the church, and the prayer of faith will save the sick and if they have any sins they shall be forgiven."(sins remitted)

He also spoke of those who would not repent after being taken before the whole congregation for correction, and said, "If they repent, you have won your brother, if not, Let them be as a heathen unto you".(sins retained)

Jesus gave the apostles the keys to the kingdom of God. He had received "all authority on heaven and earth" and He was passing that authority on to them for use among the ecclesia.


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