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51
In order to be reconciled, imo, the being must be sentient. There are other verses that must be considered. The gathering together of all into one in Christ, as has already been shared, there is no "things" in the greek. It is simply 'pas'.

In someplaces the translators added "all things", or ""all men, or they translated pas into "everything"- with no consistency it seems to me. I really don't care how far into the creation(flies, mosquitoes, etc.) the restoration goes, but really, I think the emphasis of the scriptures is on sentient beings.

I don't think plants will be resurrected. I don't think every chicken or bird or rodent or roach will be resurrected, but that is just my opinion :o) The earth was made for man, for us to dwell in at at God's pleasure. As a result of the fall, corruption and chaos entered in. As a result of the new creation- all chaos and corruption will be undone. I have confidence that whatever we will be, and the scripture clearly says, "We do not yet know what we will be", the creation within which we dwell will be awesome and wonderful and beautiful- as iour God has already shown us in this corrupted creation which, nevertheless, declares the glory of God.

"The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork".

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse".
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by Seth on October 21, 2014, 08:47:48 AM »
Sheep can be led. They hear their Shepherds's voice and follow Him beside still waters, eating green pastures.

Goats are headstrong. They butt one another with their horns, eat trash, and wander far afield. and they "But" the Master.

"Today if you hear My voice, harden not your hearts as they did in the wilderness....as i said in my wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest'".

 :thumbsup:

Jesus defines the goats directly in the parable. Sheep = those who loved. Goats = those who didn't.
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by eaglesway on October 21, 2014, 08:38:12 AM »
Sheep can be led. They hear their Shepherds's voice and follow Him beside still waters, eating green pastures.

Goats are headstrong. They butt one another with their horns, eat trash, and wander far afield. and they "But" the Master.

"Today if you hear My voice, harden not your hearts as they did in the wilderness....as i said in my wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest'".
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by WhiteWings on October 21, 2014, 08:26:28 AM »
A little more about goats:

I wonder part of the answer is in the Greek words for goat and sheep (mat 25:33)

GOAT
eriphion
Thayer Definition:
1) a kid, a young goat

SHEEP
probaton
Thayer Definition:
1) any four footed, tame animal accustomed to graze, small cattle
1a) a sheep, and so always in the NT


While the translator very likely had a reason to translate as they did, lets explore another translations.

Sheep can just as well be translated as goat which is small cattle.
Goat can be translated as a kid. A  kid of what? kid sheep, kid goat.
So legitimate translations would be:
- Sheep and young sheep. -> Old sheep and young sheep.
- Goats and young goats. -> Old goats and young goats.

Old isn't about age but maturity in Christ. A babe in Christ is new Christian that can be 8 years old but just as well 88 years old.

So young points to the level of growth/education into Christ. The young ones/goats need more education.


Also read http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-sheep-and-the-goat/msg104620/#msg104620
Reply #4 and onward.
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by WhiteWings on October 21, 2014, 07:16:15 AM »
well if a shepherd found an injured sheep he would either heal it or put it out of misery....
True. But
a] Jesus is a shepherd with divine healing powers.
b] Put out of misery means dead. Not burn them alive.

Quote
but then there are the goats he sends away form him...how will he bring them back?????
Lot's of translations are not very exact. For example, to my best knowledge, when we read about a sparrow the Bible itself writes about a little bird.
Jesus is said to be a lamb. But if you look up that word (even in a regular lexicon) it means something like small domestic animal kept by people. In other words when we read sheep it could just as well mean goat in most (all) cases. There is absolutely nothing wrong with goats. People always seem to thing goats represent the demonic forces or something like that. But the reality is that God also accepted offerings of goats on His altar. But He was quite picky because under no circumstance He accepted, for example, pigs.
Just search for goat in the Bible and see how often they are mentioned. Just as worthy animals not as something bad. They even got sacrificed during Passover.

Exo 12
5 A flock animal, a male without blemish, a yearling, shall be to you. You shall take from the sheep or from the goats.
6 And it shall be for you to keep until the fourteenth day of this month. And all the assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings.

Anyway, I can PM you a free book that tries to figure out Jesus was the lamb or goat of God. No really conclusive answer but the book shows that in many cases sheep can just as well mean goat.

Back to the sheep on the right and goat on the left. If think it can also be read as sheep on the right and YOUNG sheep on the left.
Old sheep are wise. Wise as having good knowledge of God's things. Young sheep need teaching. There is a thread on this somewhere on this forum. Again no conclusive proof. Simply because certain words has such a wide range of meanings, nothing can be proved with them.

But what all of the above proves is:
a] It's possible goat can be young sheep.
b] Goats are not God's way of saying something is utterly evil. It's church that gave goats that meaning.

 :2c:
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by WhiteWings on October 21, 2014, 06:54:55 AM »
i know i want to be healed from all of my sins and whatever else does not belong.... jesus made it sounds so hard to even be apart of the kingdom[narrow way, few chosen]....he will heal the whole world and then bring everyone to a place of love and wholeness...this is beautiful...
There is a difference between not being chosen and being eternally lost. Ever noticed a group get resurrected and the next group gets resurrected 1000 years later after His millennial kingdom.



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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by Seth on October 21, 2014, 04:54:14 AM »
i can understand this....he allows for consequences to happen and if you fail to learn form that it will get worse for you....

Yes exactly. And the reason they get worse is for the problem to become more obvious and the desire for salvation will be born. Once repentance occurs they enter into the city and receive life. It's the same for everyone. This is how I see it.

In fact according to Romans 7, this is why God gave the law, for sin to become exceeding sinful and then the sinner will see it and desire a savior. This is why we need to not go back under the letter, because it's not for salvation but for the revelation of the problem. The Holy Spirit (water of life) is salvation from sin.

:dsunny:
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by lostnbroken on October 21, 2014, 04:51:42 AM »
i can understand this....he allows for consequences to happen and if you fail to learn form that it will get worse for you....
59
Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by Seth on October 21, 2014, 04:47:34 AM »
he was really mad at sodom and gommorah though...but he says he will restore them and it is more tolerable for them on judgment day then others...so he does get really mad and in last days it will get really bad...still i trust in his love and mercy in that he will not stay angry forever and he will not want people in pain forever but to heal and them and make them new....

Yes, it's not to say his wrath does not exist, but it's different from human wrath. Human beings experience our emotions through flesh, nerves, blood, physical signals. God is spirit. He says that his thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

Sodom and Gomorrah were under a judgment before the fire came. This is similar to how God gave a symbol after the reality, such as in circumcision Abraham was given the symbol after he already had faith. Sodom and Gomorrah were already turned over to their own wicked desires. I believe God sent fire as a representation of a judgment that they were already under, defiling themselves with each other. That is why God's wrath comes from heaven in Romans 1. Even Peter uses that example of how they will be "utterly perished in their own corruption." I don't think it's literal fire, but a judgement in the manner of Romans 1.

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Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by GraceUponGrace on October 21, 2014, 04:42:08 AM »
this gives hope  :HeartThrob:
The Bible isn't about hope because hope is about possibilities.
The Bible is about facts.
One of those facts is that the Good Shepherd will seek, find and return that lost sheep to the flock.


Interesting conversation, am following this closely. As far as the word "hope" goes...it is summed up well by the word "expectation" like Tom said. It is how our culture typically misuses the word that has given us a weaker impression of it's awesome meaning. Biblical hope mean "the confident expectation of what is certain", which is a lot different than the flimsy hope we are promised by shady politicians. :winkgrin:
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