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If anyone thinks that I was comparing Ephesians 2 to James 2 when I said that Paul was talking about justification apart from the Law and James was not, show me where. I was comparing ROMANS 4 to JAMES 2 and how they don't contradict.

ROMANS 4 was talking about justification apart from the Law.

JAMES 2 is not talking about justification BY the Law, therefore they don't contradict.

My statement is as simple as that.
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That's right, and that is why the sentence "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" does not contradict anything Paul said, because Paul was talking about works of the Law, and James was not.

I was referring to Romans 4, when Paul said "by works of the Law shall no man be justified."

I was not speaking of James contradicting Paul anywhere. I was speaking of you contradicting Paul in your intepretation and application of James words.

Show me where
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That's right, and that is why the sentence "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" does not contradict anything Paul said, because Paul was talking about works of the Law, and James was not.

I was referring to Romans 4, when Paul said "by works of the Law shall no man be justified."

I was not speaking of James contradicting Paul anywhere. I was speaking of you contradicting Paul in your intepretation and application of James words.

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I completely disagree that Eph 2:8-10 is about salvation from works of the law, or is any extension of Romans 4. It is a general staement about all salvation. So we will just agree to disagree.

I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS.

I never even mentioned Ephesians 2. I said that Ephesians 2 is about SALVATION FROM SIN, not salvation from works of the LAW.

James 2 is about salvation from sin. ROMANS 4 is about salvation apart from the Law. They don't contradict
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I completely disagree that Eph 2:8-10 is about salvation from works of the law, or is any extension of Romans 4. It is a general staement about all salvation. So we will just agree to disagree.
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: question
« Last post by eaglesway on Today at 12:52:17 AM »
We all love the message of mercy and forgiveness, but this thread has been about whether there is salvation in any other Way.

Of course- Loving Jesus and being filled with His Spirit and mercy is the key to lifting up His name and glorifying God before men, but...

Confusing love and mercy with finding God through the alternate religions and philosophies of the world is not love and mercy or forgiveness. It is deception.

I have read every post thoroughly, as I usually do. I have responded as one who is not always sure what people are trying to say- because terminology varies.

But once I get the feeling that folks are not coming out clearly I will typically provoke the issue to get clear responses, because we proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord here and salvation through His cross and His name. We are not universalists in the sense that all faiths, or many faiths, lead to reconciliation and union with God. We do not believe all are already saved, altho we do believe the provision for the salvation of all is already made- all being gathered in through the dispensation of the fulness of times.

Of course there is wisdom in alternate religions and philosophies. The adversary is not stupid. We see from the garden, and the mount of temptation, that he operates by mixing truth with lies in order to undermine the the word of God.

We proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and if we take a stand for that, then we start to here all about the love of God- as if standing for Jesus as Lord and against Budhism or Hinduism or Taoism is somehow contrary to the love of God. I know God loves everyone. He loves Budhists- but He does not love Budhism or the distorted view of God it portrays or the false world view it defines.


 Paul was a great lover of God and man, and fierce defender and teacher of the gospel of Jesus Christ in the face of every attempt to undermine the simplicity of the gospel and the glory of God in Messiah Jesus. He brought all things back to Jesus as Lord and Christ crucified, because that is the fountainhead of love, the Lamp upon the lampstand, the Day.

I also like to keep in tune with the Original Post, and keep the subject close to it.

Some are very uncomfortable with the idea of kolassis(corrective punishment) or the judgment of the wicked and the wrath to come. Their discomfort is with the scriptures themselves, because the scriptures, through Jesus and the apostles and prophets testify to these things, so we warn men as well as win them, becoming all things to all men that by all means we might win some- some saving with mercy, some saving with fear hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

And this is all love and it is all from God the Father who made Jesus the cornerstone and the plumbline.

17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
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Eaglesway,
This whole thing about Ephesians 2 and Romans 4 started on page 13, reply 308, where I said:

That's right, and that is why the sentence "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" does not contradict anything Paul said, because Paul was talking about works of the Law, and James was not.

I was referring to Romans 4, when Paul said "by works of the Law shall no man be justified."

THEREFORE:

This statement:

"by works a man is justified and not by faith alone"

does not contradict with this statement:

"by works of the Law shall no man be justified"

BECAUSE those two sentences are talking about different things. Paul is talking about salvation apart from works of the LAW, which I agree with. I believe we are saved from sin by being joined together with Christ by the Spirit, not the Law. James is talking about salvation from GREED by loving in deed and truth, not just in word and tongue.
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Lounge / Re: What is " elect " all about
« Last post by jabcat on Today at 12:24:21 AM »
Thanks all   :handshake:
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1) You said that nobody knows who they are earlier in the thread. When I responded that I know I am a child of God your response was that you think that is claiming a crown before the race is won. When I responded about being saved and being assured of it, you responded, and I am paraphrasing from memory- well, you can do that if you want but make your calling and election sure.

My response to that is that "the horse" is that I know that I am a child of God by reconciliation which is a gift that creates a connection and a new creation, and I know it.Every believer should know it, and be taught it. We can know it by the Spirit of adoption- without any doubt whatsoever. The race is "the cart".

When you said:

"The reply being(agree quickly with thine adversary lest he deliver you to the judge and the judge deliver you to the bailiff), "I did do that and I do this, but I confess this before Him, He forgives me, and I will overcome by His grace."(If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness)"

That is where I agreed. IF….we confess our sins. Not just IF we believe in Jesus, and that's that.

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The second thing is your explanation about Eph 2:8-10

As I understood your response you said Paul was speaking to people who were trying to be justified by law works.

This is incorrect. There is NO discourse about law to the Ephesians. They were not being troubled by law. This was a predominantly Gentile church, in excellent shape. Overcoming. Maturing.

Eaglesway, it can be pretty frustrating talking about this with you because I already said that I was comparing, not to Ephesians 2, but to ROMANS 4. Did you see me say that? I clarified that later and you are STILL bringing it up. I feel like you are not really reading my posts.

In Romans 4 he is talking about justification apart from works OF THE LAW.

In ROMANS 4, Paul is talking about works of the Law.

In JAMES 2, he is not talking about being justified by works of the Law. In James 2, he is talking about how faith without works dies when people are GREEDY. He's saying stop being greedy, because faith alone won't save you from that if you don't eventually take action against being greedy.

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Pauls instructions to the Ephesians were all about moving into the mature man, filled up to all the fulness of God.

Eph 2:8-10 is a clear bottomline definiton of salvation- the how and why.

How-by grace through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God.

YES I AGREE

Grace through faith saves us from sin because GRACE CHASTENS US TO ABANDON UNGODLINESS. And that abandoning (verb) is what saves us from slavery IN sin. Without the abandoning, there won't be complete salvation from sin.

So, in Ephesians 2 he says that we FORMERLY walked in the ways of the world because we were joined to Christ (by grace you have been saved).

Saved from what? WALKING in the ways of the world, because we receive the Spirit. Not just believing in Jesus ALONE.
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I apologize for not responding sooner. I had to reflect on what you guys said and I didn't want to rant about how I was feeling without considering what you guys said. I do appreciate it and I know that what I struggle with many are struggling with as well. I just don't understand after all these years (6-7) I have not changed who I am. I still struggle with sins since my childhood (mainly sexual immorality). I thought that God might change me over the years but nothing has happened. There has been periods of my life that I just simply give up. I am just not cut out to be a child of God. It would have been better if I am was ignorant of the truth now I am always ashamed.

Rosered I know you ask me why I am came to this site and the main reason is because in my heart I could not believe that God would send people to hell. I know I deserve hell but I hoped that God would loving and powerful enough to save everyone even Satan. It was my dream and I never voiced it out because I thought it was sacrilegious, blasphemous, and too hopeful. I was greatly surprised that there were people around the world who believed the same things. I was equally surprised that the translations of the Word of God have been corrupted sometimes intentionally and sometimes not intentionally. I always though that the Word of God was incorruptible especially the translations. I figured that God in His wisdom would keep it that way. I guess I was wrong. Now I am at the crosswords not knowing what to do. I certainly don't have the power to make the right decisions at every moment of my life and I don't know if God will be the one making the choices for me. I know I am supposed to do what God says but if I am honest with myself I don't think I want do do what God says. I don't want to make conflict with anyone and most part I just want to be left alone so I avoid any conflict. I am hoping that this site will help me with my issues in someway and I thank you all for having the patience to tolerate me.
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