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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by Seth on February 27, 2015, 11:41:41 PM »
I'm not sure I understood your meaning there, but I believe "to the pure all things are pure" means that their MIND and consciences are pure.

It's like what Micah said, repentance, a changing of the mind.

When the mind is pure, the works follow, and salvation is fully realized. When the mind is pure, the actions can't help but also be pure, just like Jesus.
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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by sheila on February 27, 2015, 11:35:32 PM »
maybe even boasting of it[not under law/no law against love[evidently the man's love for his Father's

  wife[ex problably through being sent away with certificate of divorce/which was allowed by Moses

  due to hardness of heart..so that she could become another's] to the pure all things pure. :dontknow:
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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by Seth on February 27, 2015, 11:34:11 PM »
the cretens being discussed were  'circumcision groups,geneologists/ascetics,myths[jewish] scruples

 against things God declared to be good." He was rebuked,he did repent,and was forgiven...Paul

  said..'if there was anything to forgive"Corinth[Greece also]  I can't imagine circumcision group

  having that attitude. However someone not under the law[with commandments to not uncover the

nakedness of your Father's bed] might.

The Cretans were Greek. I think Paul was revealing the hypocrisy in the ranks of the circumcision to preach the Law but as much as their prophets were correctly identifying Cretins, they themselves were following in step with their reprobate nature: "liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."

The reason someone under the Law might practice the work of forgiveness is because they are under the teaching and behavior modification of Grace as in Titus 2.

Again that irony about being made lawful, while not under the Law by walking according to Spirit.


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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by micah7:9 on February 27, 2015, 11:32:26 PM »
Mat_4:17  From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 Repent...to change ones mind....think differently. In my opinion the word repent is understood today as feeling sorry or saying one is sorry.
In my opinion when one repents they think differently and those carnal thoughts once harbored are now put behind and one sees differently....a different thinking, a mind change, one realizes His Grace and Grace works... which ignites Faith..Grace and Faith produces good works and the strength to standfast, therefore. This just my small window for my understanding. :2c:
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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by sheila on February 27, 2015, 11:25:12 PM »
 the cretens being discussed were  'circumcision groups,geneologists/ascetics,myths[jewish] scruples

 against things God declared to be good." He was rebuked,he did repent,and was forgiven...Paul

  said..'if there was anything to forgive"Corinth[Greece also]  I can't imagine circumcision group

  having that attitude. However someone not under the law[with commandments to not uncover the

nakedness of your Father's bed] might.
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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by Seth on February 27, 2015, 10:37:31 PM »
Quote
what if the works they denied Him in,was

 freely forgiving their brother his sin,as his was? freely forgiving their brother his sin,as his was?

When Paul kicked the man, who was sleeping with his father's wife, out of the company of believers, he did so not on the basis of belief in Christ, and not because the man was a Judaizer. He did it because the man was sleeping with his father's wife. "Unto every good work, reprobate." Not obedient. Professing God with his mouth and denying him with his works.

The commandment, do not covet, is a good one. But under the Law we become lawless to it. By walking according to the Spirit we become lawful without the Law, and thus saved from covetousness.

That irony is what I think perplexed many about Paul's writing.
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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by Seth on February 27, 2015, 10:24:08 PM »
I think we can determine that by looking at the context:

Titus 1
10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


They profess to know God but in works they deny him. Being DISOBEDIENT.

"And these are his commandments, believe in Jesus and love thy neighbor." So simple.

Quote
Paul said. I do that which I desire not?

If you look at the context it shows that this was only true when he attempted to attain righteousness UNDER THE LAW. Paul always taught us not to do that, and if we do, we are fallen from grace which according to him in Titus 2: "grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING (paiduo - chastening) us to deny ungodliness and live sober lives in this present age." :HeartThrob:

Quote
...what if ...in works they deny Him..means this.......they go back to salvation of works by the law?

If they go back to the Law, "the motions of sin" will reassert themselves.

Romans 7
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.


The motions of sin by the Law. Sin taking advantage by the commandment to become exceeding sinful, so that sin be recognized as sin. Grace comes to deliver us from sin. So, if they go back to the Law, they will naturally become, as Paul said "unto every good work, reprobate."

48
Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by sheila on February 27, 2015, 10:09:59 PM »
...what if ...in works they deny Him..means this.......they go back to salvation of works by the law?

[mixture]   what if they profess him..but refuse to believe His 'work's' on the cross bringing atonement

 and taking away  all their sin...did not fulfill the law.  what if the works they denied Him in,was

 freely forgiving their brother his sin,as his was?

    Paul said. I do that which I desire not? so he loved and agreed in his mind with the righteousness

   but sin's law in his flesh[sin in flesh condemned/Grace/God not counting that against them]

   Jesus says what defiles a man..is what comes out of his heart...again motive..

   deceivableness of unrighteousness v 7..for the SECRET POWER OF LAWLESSNESS IS ALREADY

  AT WORK;[sin's law=body undergoing this death,due to sin's sting] satan deceived sin entered all men   

BUT THE ONE WHO NOW HOLDS IT BACK WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO UNTIL HE IS TAKEN

 OUT OF THE WAY[consumed with the breath of His coming]and we are changed[garmets]

   

   
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Word Studies / Re: The Hebrew Word for Faith (and it was fulfilled...)
« Last post by Seth on February 27, 2015, 09:26:52 PM »
Just wanted to add some scriptures to show how I believe Paul incorporated the Hebrew understanding of enumah into his writing:

2 Thess 2
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be judged (krino) who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Believed not the truth….but had pleasure in unrighteousness. In other words, if they believed the truth, they would naturally cease having pleasure in unrighteousness. I think Paul is showing that he did not separate obedience from belief, because to him, belief went further than acknowledging an intellectual proposition of truth. The reason they weren't saved (sozo - healed) from sin is NOT that they denied that Christ existed, or died and was resurrected. They received not a LOVE of the truth. When you have a love for something, you naturally act in accordance with it. The word "perish" is from the word "appolumi" meaning "lost." If they had LOVE for the truth, they would have ceased to have pleasure in unrighteousness and would not be lost to sin. The two go hand in hand.

In other words, when you truly go from unbelief to belief, you naturally proceed from despising the truth through actions to LOVING it through action. I think this scripture clarifies even more:

Titus 1
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.


That's PAUL! That's the supposed "faith alone" guy, who Gentiles love to say is their guy, and not James, into whose writing Martin Luther inserted the word "alone" into Romans 4 where it never belonged. We've had some interesting discussions on the forum about how James' writing integrates with Paul's writing. I actually think that this above scripture is even MORE provocative than "faith without works is dead" while essentially confirming the same thing.

They profess to know him, but in works DENY him. Faith without works is dead. What's the difference? No difference that I can see.

When Martin Luther visited Rome he saw the abuse of the Catholic Church and their understanding of works-based salvation (i.e. observe OUR traditions as an expression of James' and Paul's words) and rightfully rejected it. To them, those were the works that save all mixed in with the false teaching of Hell and DISTRACTED from the Biblical teaching of salvation from sin.

So, Luther swung the pendulum the other way, and I believe likewise missed the point. Still believing in salvation from Hell, his understanding was that salvation from Hell had nothing to do with works, but "faith alone." All the while, I am sure he would agree that nobody could be saved from a sinful lifestyle without a modicum of actual obedience to compliment their faith, if only to cease in their former ways as inspired by God.

In Apostle John's writing he said that God's commandments are to believe in Jesus….and love your neighbor. Two commandments for mankind. Anything BEYOND these is legalism, and anything SHORT is sin, in my opinion.







50
Bible Threatenings Explained / Re: Another Look at the Fire of God
« Last post by sheila on February 27, 2015, 09:18:59 PM »
Isaaih 57;3  but you,you come here,you sons of a sorceress[Jezebels prophets of Baal/astoreth/groves]

  you offspring of adulterers and prostitutes. Whom are you mocking..at whom do you sneer and

  stick out your tougne? Are you not a brood of rebels,the offspring of liars? You burn with lust among

 the oaks.............v 14 comfort for the contrite..............

  interesting that the dogs ate Jezebel...all except her hands and feet[works/walk]..........it is not proper to give

  the bread of the children unto the little dogs.....but the little dogs do eat of the crumbs from

 under the table.........even the dog reckognized the good works done of Christ...
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