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Book of Revelation / Re: What is Babylon the Great?
« Last post by Searching_For_The_Truth on September 14, 2014, 09:41:47 PM »
Many believe it is America
Or RCC which has many Babylonic rituals and designs.
It can't be the RCC because the book of Revelation mentions that Babylon is a place where merchants go to for merchandise. As far as I know, the RCC doesn't have much to do with merchandise but America does.
Welcome Central - **FIRST POST MUST BE MADE HERE / Re: Where are you from?
« Last post by sheila on September 14, 2014, 09:39:22 PM »
Reconciliation of ALL requires a lot of Must forgive those who tresspass against you,or your Heavenly Father

 will not forgive you. Justice is sin in the flesh is condemned in all..Grace and reconciliation is forgiveness and healing of all who

 died in Adam.
I am new to this kind of theology some things make sense to me and some things don't . so I want to learn more so I can understand things that don't seem to make sense to me.
This is a safe place to search for those answers cranny
Lounge / Re: Can a believer go to the Lake of Fire?
« Last post by Seth on September 14, 2014, 08:34:17 PM »
I do see a connection to Gehenna and the LOF with respect to New Jerusalem.

Isaiah 65
2 "I have spread out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in the way which is not good, following their own thoughts, 3  A people who continually provoke Me to My face, Offering sacrifices in gardens and burning incense on bricks; 4  Who sit among graves and spend the night in secret places; Who eat swine's flesh, And the broth of unclean meat is in their pots. 5  "Who say, 'Keep to yourself, do not come near me, For I am holier than you!' These are smoke in My nostrils, A fire that burns all the day.

 6 "Behold, it is written before Me, I will not keep silent, but I will repay; I will even repay into their bosom, 7 Both their own iniquities and the iniquities of their fathers together," says the Lord. "Because they have burned incense on the mountains And scorned Me on the hills, Therefore I will measure their former work into their bosom."

continuing to next chapter

Isaiah 66:
22 "For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me," declares the Lord, "So your offspring and your name will endure. 23  "And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the Lord. 24  "Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."

I notice that those who say "do not come near me" these are a smoke in God's nostrils and a fire that burns all day (not unlike Isaiah 9 earlier). In Isaiah 9, one of the reasons the fire is not quenched is because man consumes and is never satisfied. This is "worm not dying and fire not being quenched" is in direct contrast to "the new heavens and the new earth." Fast forward to Christ's ministry who references Isaiah 66:

Mark 9
 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Gehenna, into the fire that shall not be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that shall not be quenched: 46Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God (New Jerusalem) with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into Gehenna fire: 48Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Fast forward to "new heaven and new earth"

Revelation 21
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 But for the cowardly and [d]unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: The 2nd Death
« Last post by WhiteWings on September 14, 2014, 07:58:42 PM »
LoF can also be seen as dead of the old person. The death of the sinning parts.
That view is hard/impossible to prove I think, but Bible focusses big on spiritual stuff.
The strong point of that view is that the sinners actually learn something or change if you wish.
Being just dead teaches nothing.
Book of Revelation / Re: Short time
« Last post by rosered on September 14, 2014, 07:00:05 PM »

  Thanks Shelia and ed
    I did not have time to   "go there" , yet  :thumbsup:
Book of Revelation / Re: What is Babylon the Great?
« Last post by rosered on September 14, 2014, 06:58:50 PM »
 :thumbsup:    Give her double  rev 18
  REV 16
 5And I heard the angel of the waters saying, "Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things;

 6for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it."

 7 And I heard the altar saying, "Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments."

5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities

. 6"Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds;

 in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her.

7"To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning;

 for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.
Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: The 2nd Death
« Last post by rosered on September 14, 2014, 06:44:12 PM »
The article is UR, but it is mostly a rebuttal of a teaching that says, "If it is given to man once to die and then comes the judgment, how can there be a second death" and go on so far as to teach that the second death is a second life lived in an existence among many gross sinners committing nefarious acts of many kinds upon one another.

It goes on to make some points about the use of literal and metaphorical meanings and rightly dividing them.

Kind of overwritten imo, difficult to understand because of the writing style, but clear enough if you have the patience to wrestle it thru.

Myself, I would just conclude it all with this statement..........

Hebrews says "it is given to man once to die and then the judgment"- it doesnt give any details about what may transpire after that judgment.....therefore that verse in Hebrews bears no influence on the verses in Rev 20 about the second death and the lake of fire

  appointed for man to die once and than the judgment
    are they  forgetting the   wages of sin is death  ?  as   being  judgment  , though you live in a mortal body still
   or what of the death of baptism in Christ ?? and chastening begins in the house of God  , still in the mortal body
   so many  hold to the literal death of mortality as an end   ,  I never   see this  as   an end    of all things ,  but new beginnings 
  God is Spirit      not mortal   in any sense of the meaning !    Our hope in in God  in the SPIRIT OF HIS HOLINESS
 The  second death  causes harm ,   not death        I see this as    Rev   9 the sting of death  is in their tails  up from the abyss , satan  as abdadon/ apoyllon   the DESTROYER      loosed for the  little season     locusts , as being an appearance of men  with woman's  with hair    in verse    causing fear  of death  in  teaching lies   and they believe them   , Paul mentions the sting of  death and the victory over death   is TO  BELIEVE/ trust  in JESUS CHRIST   for salvation .  the grace of God given as the gift     , LIFE     
Christian Life / Re: What if you aren't one of the elect?
« Last post by rosered on September 14, 2014, 06:35:29 PM »
:thumbsup:  if you believe a prophet you recieve a prohets reward..the testimony of Jesus Christ is

   the spirit of prophecy
    :2thumbs:   the Word of God is sure  , the sum of Truth

 Psalm 119:   (NASB)

160 The sum of Your word is truth,
And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting.
Lounge / Re: Am I doing right or wrong.
« Last post by rosered on September 14, 2014, 06:31:47 PM »

    Bro T 
 Matt   9   But Yeshua turned, and saw her, and he said to her, "Take heart my daughter, your faith has saved you." And the woman was healed from that moment

If the one you are praying for   has not the faith   to be healed  , saved   , we can pray  on their  behalf  , just as the man whom asked Jesus   please help  for His son ..
  who was under the spell of a demon  causing harm to him 

 But first he needed help himself to have the faith and ask for it  first   ,   the boy was healed     and went on and lived    the course of  his time  on earth
     I always think about Lazarus    whom was raised from the dead    and      was made an example    , but than went on and died   the mortal    death  as well
     We all die mortally     , but for me its not the end   of Life  at all  as some seem to believe
   they may end up "cut off "   for a time      , but again    time will be no more  one Day .
  the work in that ONE DAY   will be a  mighty   one,  that  Last Day  , many  still   have   hope in  for sure ..  those of the UR  camp
  in  one day as the 1000 years        to repent   the last day  is   Jesus   being the  Resurrection and the Life      John 11
24Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies

, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?


7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

 8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

2 Timothy 3:1-5 ESV

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.

 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable,

slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the

appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.
     the world is full of troubles     ,  letting  your yes be   yes and your no  be no   anything more than this  evil is present to   cause harm  , thus the warning in the above scripture

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