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Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Hell-everlasting torment
« Last post by marie glen on January 28, 2015, 07:20:15 AM »
I have been thinking lately that God (Yahweh) has allowed this belief in a 'hell' (as opposed to the grave or sheol where "all meet" and "there is no thought nor doing" etc) so that doers of great evil, like chopping off heads, holding grade school classes in the art of chopping heads, etc, not just horrible evils of our own time but all time, would have short lived absolute terror for a bit when they wake up in the great day of judgment (aka, surely review, that the smoke of man's doings and results of his world when it crumbles, will be written in stone - Job 19:23,24,29c). Perhaps harsh of me to think that way.. watching too much news lately :)

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Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Hell-everlasting torment
« Last post by eaglesway on January 28, 2015, 06:13:14 AM »
Personally, I am glad there is no literal hell, and that whatever temporal hell we may find ourselves in, we know that ultimately God will be all in all and all will be in God. I think I am comfortable with calling that heaven :o)
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Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Hell-everlasting torment
« Last post by RonnyTX on January 28, 2015, 06:07:54 AM »
I think when I quoted some in this thread,I got somethings mixed up and put some names wrong?! :-) Sorry about that and right now,I'm just to tired to go back and try to straighten such out! :-)
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Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Hell-everlasting torment
« Last post by RonnyTX on January 28, 2015, 06:06:05 AM »
Love that Rosered,for yes,wherever we are,God is there! :-) Well,we can't get away from God/Jesus Christ,we can't get away from Love! :-) And that true for everyone of us,from Adam on down! :-)
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Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Hell-everlasting torment
« Last post by RonnyTX on January 28, 2015, 06:00:42 AM »
I know that for me, I was in hell when I believed that my Father may not actually love and save all of His children. It was a literal hell worrying about my loved ones and not knowing whether or not I could truly trust the Father that I had so loved and trusted in the beginning.

I would bet Micah, that the people you have been speaking with are also in hell. They just don't realize it.

Ronny to Lomarah:
I know how disturbed I was,when an uncle of mine passed on,when I was 17teen years old. He and my aunt,in what was said to be a cult Christian group. So I had been taught in church,that this uncle of mine went to hell. :-(  Before that,it was hard enough when a much loved cousin passed on,when I was 12yo and my Granny,when I was 15 or 16yo. But at least with them,I knew they were with God. So as much as I mourned their passing,at least I was taught,that they were in heaven. Then as I got older,I simply did my best,not to think about all of the people,that I was taught were going to hell. Well,I was taught in church,to be a Calvinist in belief and that God chose some few to go to heaven and the rest, simply went to hell. And there is no way,to believe that way and think on it much and still stay sane. So,as I got older, I simply tried to keep my mind off of such,as much as possible. And it simply astounded me,when I observed fellow Calvinists in belief and some acted so high and mighty. Acting as if they were so much better,than the great mass of humanity.  That was just something,that I could never understand,of another person like myself,who was also Calvinist in belief. It simply,made no sense to me?!

And Lomarah,some of those people you spea of,they are in the hell of selfrighteousness and don't even know it. I know I was there,until God brought me out of such. God did that for me,when I was born of God,at 16 years old. Then I was back to my Calvinistic teaching church,for the next year. And I didn't get as bad then,as I had been before;but I still fell back into thinking, that because of the local church I was in,that I was better than a lot of other people. Very strange thinking,for one who is a Calvinist in belief;but then I've seen other Calvinists,who are the same way. So in the year after God saved me,as I say, I fell back some,into my selfrighteousness. Then an older brother and I,we went back to the Baptist Bible camp,where God had saved me,the year before. And for 5 straight days,the youth teacher,he taught on nothing else;but the sin of selfrighteousness! :-( LoL  And after the first lesson,I thought surely he will teach on something else tomorrow! But no, he didn't! LoL Well,God certainly knew what I needed then,to bring me to repent on that sin in me! :-)  And on the last day,after the last sermon,I went up to the front of the church and told the preacher what I was coming up for. What God had called me on and caused me to repent of.  And I was sort of dumbfounded and a bit shocked that,that preacher wasn't interested in such,at all. Well,I wanted to tell people,what God had done for me;but didn't get the chance to,that time.
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Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Hell-everlasting torment
« Last post by RonnyTX on January 28, 2015, 05:32:43 AM »
A lot of the Hell-proponents will also be staunch creationists, who like to go back to Genesis.  Remind them that the first chapter of Genesis states that God made the Heavens and the Earth.  The creation of Hell is not mentioned.  All else follows, or rather, does not follow, from that.

For yourself, remember that God's stated Purpose is for many to NOT have understanding of the secrets of the Kingdom.  Jesus said as much.

Ronny to Micah:
Micah,that is just what I was telling one fellow today,in another group. I simply asked him,if a hell of eternal torment was true,why didn't God warm Adam about such? And why was the creation of hell not mentioned,when it talks about God creating all things? Maybe,that will get him to think some? As for myself,I know I never,ever thought of that,until around 5 years ago. That when I first heard of UR. And my preacher cousins wife agreed with me the other night,when I said that there is just a lot of scripture,that we're taught in church,not to see. Well,using myself as an example,with me being brought up and taught in a Calvinist teaching/believing local church.  It just amazed me later on,how much I must of read over some verses,just in the book of John,that say Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the whole world,etc;but I never saw such,until I heard of UR and God showed me,that was true. And mercy,right after God saved me,when I was 16 years old,the desire of my heart was that every person,then have the same type of relationship with God. :-) God gave me that desire;but in church,some people taught me differently. Yeah,we can be so blind about somethings,when we're listening and believing some people,instead of listening to and believing God. But then,I think so many times,in this or that local church,we're taught to believe the lie,that listening to and always believing the preacher,is the same as listening to and believing God. So many taught to believe that way,including myself. Taught sin,taught to be idol worshippers,of some men.
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Lounge / Re: Cheers to the revival of the Tentmaker forum
« Last post by joeteekay on January 28, 2015, 05:28:09 AM »
Thanks Ronny

Very thought provoking.

Ultimately:

Gal_3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
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Arguments Against Universal Salvation / Re: Hell-everlasting torment
« Last post by RonnyTX on January 28, 2015, 05:16:47 AM »
It seems that Christians who believe in Jesus Christ and His saving grace are pretty darn adamant that people who don't believe in Jesus Christ are going to a hell and well deserved. They believe, and staunchly, that a hell of eternal torment is the portion set aside for those who don't see things their way.
I am just amazed and astonished that no matter how much I may speak that LOVE...it's essence.... cannot possibly work that way, they cannot see anything else, but that that kind of eternity is dealt out from a Savior who died, just for that kind of thinking.....HATE. It truly is sad and amazing. Just some thoughts after I watched some youtubes that say that universal salvation is not biblical. The power of believing, be it right or wrong, is one heck of a stimulant.
I know and Live.....He Is Risen.....perhaps accepting that Jesus The King who died for the sin of the world and acknowledging that people will not realize and understand that He is the Savior of the world is just a small part of the, singular, me and you, is the tribulation one must go through and holding on.......Stand therefore. Isa. 45:23
I'm venting :dsunny:

Ronny to Micah:
Micah,it's good to vent sometimes. :-)  And pretty soon,I think I'm going to have to! :-) LoL

Well,thinking of three people who are close to me. I told the first,that I was no longer Calvinist in believe;but believed that God was going to save all,by way of Jesus Christ and the cross. And I told her,there was no Jesus Christ created hell, of eternal torment. She blew her top at that one. That was my next oldest sister. Then our oldest sister,she got to saying something to me the other night and I told her there was no hell of eternal torment and she got really upset at my saying that. Though she does like the way I believe better,than an older brother of ours,who is Calvinist. :-) Awhile back,he and Sis got into a disagreement and I chimed in and told Sis,the scripture she was referring to,simply taught that God was going to save everyone. Well,that got that older brother of mine upset and he let me know,that he disagreed. So what I have here,is some kinfolk who are Arminian and some who are Calvinist in belief. You got any kinfolk who are UR in belief,that you want to trade me?! :-) LoL

Oh and I went to my aunt's funeral this last Saturday. That was led by her son,a Baptist preacher. Not sure,how he believes? But Saturday or Sunday night,I was outside of one brother's home and got to talk some,to that cousin's wife. We talked about several things and I ended up telling her,that I now believed in UR. I don't know if she agrees with that or not;but it sure didn't phase her,when I told her that. She didn't get mad or upset or anything like that. :-)

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Lounge / Re: The lost son and lost sheep parables
« Last post by eaglesway on January 28, 2015, 03:59:06 AM »
I think they are right that God will only save people who repent.

But I also believe, "Every knee shall bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." Phillippians 2:10,11

In other words, every being who ever rebelled will repent.

I believe John saw the promise of Philippians 2:9&10 fulfilled in the heavenly vision.

Rev 5:11-13
Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice,

"Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

"To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

That is true, but the difference is that ET'ers claim that if you do not repent in this life, you cannot be saved. But they are ignoring the verses you posted  :dontknow:

Yes, they are ignoring a lot of things. The nature of God. The many scriptures that testify to messiah redeeming all. The incongruity of the idea that God would destroy most everyone He created, much less torment them forever.

I would think that if there was the slightest chance that Jesus reconciles all- that our testimony is true- anyone with a reasonable and compassionate mind would want to hear about it and to "study the scriptures to see if these things are true."
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Lounge / Re: Cheers to the revival of the Tentmaker forum
« Last post by RonnyTX on January 28, 2015, 12:02:41 AM »
Yep,this is really great to see. :-)  Think things got shut off on the 7th and back to going,on the 27? Wasn't easy,not being able to come here,read posts and post some myself. Well,my Mama did tell me once,that I was born talking! :-)

While Tentmaker forum was offline,I looked about and found several groups that I've posted some in. None though,that were Christian universalist in belief. Though some in those groups,might well believe that way?  And some,in some groups, that are just way off,on somethings. And I was on one group and accidentally clicked on a link,to a Muslim group. Well,I say accidentally;but it really wasn't. :-) And before this,I knew people who were Muslim,were my fellow human beings. But this blog,this lady has,as I read her words,I could see how she was and relate to her,as a fellow human being. And no,she didn't approve at all,of the recent murders in France. But what got to me more,is when she speaks about her son,who is autistic. Now there's something I have in common with her,as I have a younger 2nd cousin,who is severely autistic. This lady,she talked about her son,his health problems and how some things are so tough in this life. And the more she spoke about things like that,the better I could relate to her. :-) And that was a blessing,from God to me. :-)
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