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Word Studies / Re: Janas Parallelism Demonstrates Aramaic Source In Matthew
« Last post by rosered on October 23, 2014, 08:48:09 PM »
Professor Cyrus Gordon has identified a type of Semitic parallelism he calls 'jans parallelisms'...

......This type of Semitic parallelism cannot be produced or reproduced in Greek. This is another indirect evidence of an Aramaic original from which the Greek was translated.


Very interesting  :thumbsup:
More examples please.

Praise God! How beautiful!

That's what can happen in a document written by One who is a Master of all languages... :Chinscratch:

              :iagree: :iagree: :dsunny: Amen! and yes, how interesting!!

  :flowerred:   :sohappy:  so happy to read this    the spiritual  and hidden beauty     of the  language          and the   other posts         amen!!        God bless  you all !!!!
Word Studies / Re: Janas Parallelism Demonstrates Aramaic Source In Matthew
« Last post by marie glen on October 23, 2014, 08:29:54 PM »
Professor Cyrus Gordon has identified a type of Semitic parallelism he calls 'jans parallelisms'...

......This type of Semitic parallelism cannot be produced or reproduced in Greek. This is another indirect evidence of an Aramaic original from which the Greek was translated.


Very interesting  :thumbsup:
More examples please.

Praise God! How beautiful!

That's what can happen in a document written by One who is a Master of all languages... :Chinscratch:

              :iagree: :iagree: :dsunny: Amen! and yes, how interesting!!
Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by marie glen on October 23, 2014, 07:04:01 PM »
A little more about goats:

I wonder part of the answer is in the Greek words for goat and sheep (mat 25:33)

Thayer Definition:
1) a kid, a young goat

Thayer Definition:
1) any four footed, tame animal accustomed to graze, small cattle
1a) a sheep, and so always in the NT

While the translator very likely had a reason to translate as they did, lets explore another translations.

Sheep can just as well be translated as goat which is small cattle.
Goat can be translated as a kid. A  kid of what? kid sheep, kid goat.
So legitimate translations would be:
- Sheep and young sheep. -> Old sheep and young sheep.
- Goats and young goats. -> Old goats and young goats.

Old isn't about age but maturity in Christ. A babe in Christ is new Christian that can be 8 years old but just as well 88 years old.

So young points to the level of growth/education into Christ. The young ones/goats need more education.

Also read
Reply #4 and onward.

That's awesome!! Even if the tendency to look at this verse as the saved and the unsaved, separate harvests (of Rev ch 14) at Jesus' arrival/return.. to me this still fits as the saved - mature and the not yet saved, the not yet mature/saved, but still erring 'kids'.. :smile:
Welcome Central - **FIRST POST MUST BE MADE HERE / Re: Hi There :-)
« Last post by marie glen on October 23, 2014, 06:44:12 PM »

Hi there! :-) Ronny here from rural,small town NE Texas.

Oh my Goodness! what a blessing to read, your post was.. all of it! And I believe you summed up the whole believer/church situation as it exists in the lives and faith of many without them realizing it..

"If anyone lacks wisdom, let them ask God.."  :cloud9: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Fellow former webtv user here! :hiya:  God bless! and welcome to Tentmaker forums! I hope we will hear a lot from you!
FAQs Regarding UR / Re: I am not UR
« Last post by rosered on October 23, 2014, 06:37:12 PM »
    I  believe   in the same manner   Gods plan   for all to be saved is real     

 But I certainly understand  Bro Micah    here and am also    believing   there is only one way to worship   GOD   and that is in Spirit and truth     , the Father is seeking  theses types    now and has since the SHEPHERD    WAS STRUCK        scattering the   lost  sheep to their own places
 IF   we Believe      this Word of God as truth         we know  there is ONE GOD  and Jesus Christ  whom will be gathered into HIM ONLY         , HE who does not gather with me  scatters abroad           , those are the robber and thieves        that have their own agenda and   teachings     
and there is ONE JESUS CHRIST    and no divisions in ChristHoly City set on a Hill /ruler Him     the Head authority      ,   but a  thousand divisions      outside of Christ   and in the world
  The SPIRIT OF PROPHECY        and it is the testimony of Jesus Christ          says its so         we find in   the old testimony of God  in ZECH     13
 The Shepherd Is Killed
7 "·Sword, hit the [ Awake, Sword, against my] shepherd.
    ·Attack [ …against] the man who is my ·friend [associate],"
    says the Lord ·All-Powerful [Almighty; of Heaven's Armies; T of hosts].
"·Kill [Strike] the shepherd,
    and the sheep will scatter [Matt. 26:31; Mark 14:27],
    and I will ·punish [L turn my hand against] the little ones."
8 The Lord says, "Two-thirds of the people
    through all the land will die. They will be ·gone [struck down; L cut off],
    and one-third will be left.
9 The third that is left I will ·test with [L bring into the] fire,
    ·purifying [refining] them like silver,
    testing them like gold.
Then they will call on ·me [my name],
    and I will answer them.
I will say, 'These are my people,'
    and they will say, 'The Lord is our God.'"

 31 Jesus told ·his followers [ them], "Tonight you will all ·stumble in your faith [fall away; desert] on account of me, because it is written in the Scriptures:
'I will ·kill [strike] the shepherd,
and the sheep [L of the flock] will ·scatter [be scattered]' [Zech. 13:7].
32 But after ·I rise from the dead [ I am raised], I will go ahead of you into Galilee."
 IF   you ever done a study of Galilee   

. Galilee."circuit "  I recommend it     highly            , we will meet the Lord Jesus Christ in that place   , every   lost sheep  will be found by the Lord our Shepherd     there    if we obey and   wait upon the Lord there for Him

 its a beautiful     meaning spiritually speaking        all power of God is through our Lord Jesus Christ           His name  has power    there is no name under heaven by which you must be saved        and the   Holy Spirit  will teach you all things concerning Him   
 this is where we give up on the earthly Messiah and kingdom of our own making    and Gods good pleasure concerning   His plan   is what is best for all      ,    its means to roll   , everything you believed   in is rolled up like a scroll    etc ..  so much    to consider , we go from the earthy  into the heavenly      KINGDOM of GOD
The name Galilee comes from a Greek variation of the Hebrew name Galil, and that name is identical to one adjective and one noun גליל (galil) that were derived of the verb גלל (galal), meaning to roll:

Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary
גלל  גיל
None of the consulted sources mentions anything about a relation between the roots גלל (galal) and גיל (gil), but their forms are quite obviously related and their meanings are similar as well:
גלל I
The verb גלל (galal I) is all about rolling; it means to roll some object on, upon or away. In a figurative sense it is used in ideas like to whirl or dazzle and even to roll oneself onto the Lord, meaning to put one's trust in Him (Psalm 22:8) or to commit oneself to Him (Psalm 37:5, Proverbs 16:3). When this verb is used for physically rolling something away or somewhere else, the object is usually stones (Genesis 29:3, Joshua 10:18).
This root-verb's enormous array of derivations:
The masculine noun גל (gal), meaning heap or pile (Joshua 7:26), a heap of ruins (Isaiah 25:2), or, in case of water: wave or billow (Jeremiah 5:22).
The masculine noun גיל (gel), meaning dung (Job 20:7, Ezekiel 4:12).
The feminine noun גלה (gulla), meaning bowl, basin or spring (Joshua 15:19, Zechariah 4:2). Note that this noun is spelled the same as the verb גלה (gala).
The masculine noun גלל (galal), meaning dung (1 Kings 14:10).
The adjective גליל (galil), meaning a turning or folding (1 Kings 6:34).
That same word used as masculine noun: גליל (galil), meaning cylinder or rod (Esther 1:6), or circuit or district (Isaiah 8:23).
The previous noun made feminine: גלילה (gelila), meaning circuit, boundary or territory (Joshua 4:4, Ezekiel 47:8).
The noun גלול (gillul), meaning idols (Ezekiel 22:3, 1 Kings 15:12). This word occurs only in plural. Scholars can't decide whether this noun came from the idols shapes (round/curvy?) or whether they were considered "dung-things" or crap, so to speak.
The masculine noun גלגל (galgal), meaning wheel (Isaiah 5:28) or whirlwind (Psalm 77:18).
The masculine noun גלגל (gilgal), meaning wheel (Isaiah 28:28 only).
The feminine noun גלגלת (gulgoleth), meaning skull or head. Note that the noun פנימ (panim), meaning face, comes from the verb פנה (pana), meaning to turn. Also note that in Biblical times the head did not hold the same regard as it does to us today. To us the image of a skull represents death or danger, but that symbolism is not Biblical. In Biblical times, the head was also not regarded as the seat of the mind or the intellect, but rather as the most public part of the body, comparable with the door of a house or city. The head was seen as the seat of individual personality, or rather a person's public profile. It was the part of a person with which that person engaged others and the world around him. One consumed food via the head, listened to others, spoke to others and viewed others, but the head was not seen as a repository or reservoir of anything. Our word occurs a mere 13 times in the Bible, half of which in the context of literally a head- (skull-) count (Exodus 38:26, Numbers 1:2, 1 Chronicles 23:13). In Exodus 16:16, the Israelites are commanded to gather one omer of manna per "skull" (something similar occurs in Exodus 38:26 and Numbers 3:47). In Judges 9:53, a certain woman drops a mill stone on Abimelech's head, thus crushing his skull and with it his personhood, in 2 Kings 9:35 we find what's left of Jezebel after the dogs are done with her: her hands and feet and her skull, and in 1 Chronicles 10:10 Saul's skull ends up in the temple of Dagon. Note that all gospels emphasize that Jesus died on Golgotha (or Calgary in Luke, which means the same), which is obviously highly significant when one realizes that the name Golgotha comes from our word גלגלת (gulgoleth), and what that word meant to the gospel's audience.
The feminine noun מגלה (megilla), meaning scroll (Jeremiah 36:28, Ezekiel 3:1).
גלל II
There's a second root-verb גלל (galal), which doesn't occur in the Bible, but in cognate languages it means to be great in rank. Its sole derivative is the masculine noun גלל (galal), meaning account. This word only occurs in conjunction with the preposition ב (be), meaning in, to form the meaning of "on account of" (Genesis 39:5, Jeremiah 11:17).
The root-verb גיל (gil) yields words that have to do with a circular motion, usually expressing joy or celebration (Isaiah 65:19; Ps 21:1). It "most often refers to rejoicing at God's works or attributes," says HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.
The derivations of this verb are:
The masculine noun גיל (gil), meaning rejoicing (Psalm 45:16, Isaiah 16:10).
The feminine noun גילה (gila), also meaning rejoicing (Isaiah 65:18).
The masculine noun גיל (gil), meaning a circle or age. The phrase בן גילו (ben gilu) literally means 'son of circle' and denotes someone born at the same time, contemporary.
If you see the spiritual message in this you are truly blessed   !!!   
FAQs Regarding UR / Re: I am not UR
« Last post by marie glen on October 23, 2014, 06:30:09 PM »
..what did i hear the other day that related to this..?  :Chinscratch: if we become unyielding in a belief we stop the flow of the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth.. something like that..

Of course, as far as UR itself, I think most here are pretty unyielding in that belief, because we are convinced God has revealed it to us and we believe it's what his word says.. perhaps it's a fine line..

Oh, I remember! It was about the Book of Revelation, John Crowder (Chowder?) on one of his youtube videos mentioned many folks are too rigid in their interpretation of it, which i'd have to agree, and it becomes therefor eschatological doctrine, and there really is no interpretation, but I thought, that also can become a too rigid eschatological doctrine! :laughing7:
FAQs Regarding UR / Re: I am not UR
« Last post by Seth on October 23, 2014, 05:56:00 PM »
I am bumfuzzled  :Chinscratch:

But the question is, are you a pre-bamfuzzled or a post-bamfuzzled? I don't associate with the pre-bamfuzzled. That's heresy.
Judgement and Punishment / Re: the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire
« Last post by rosered on October 23, 2014, 05:42:13 PM »
KJVMat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

WWMat 25:33 And he shall set the old on his right hand, but the babes on the left.

Thayer Definition:
1) an infant, little child
2) a minor, not of age
3) metaphorically childish, untaught, unskilled
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from an obsolete particle ne- (implying negation) and G2031
Citing in TDNT: 4:912, 631
KJVTit 2:11-12  11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Thayer Definition:
1) to train children
1a) to be instructed or taught or learn
1b) to cause one to learn
2) to chastise
2a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
2a1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
2b) of God
2b1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
2c) to chastise with blows, to scourge
2c1) of a father punishing his son
2c2) of a judge ordering one to be scourged
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G3816
Citing in TDNT: 5:596, 753
Sheeps and goats is about judgement.
KJV1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Chastened=teaching => See defenition above.
Thayer Definition:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
7a) to dispute
7b) in a forensic sense
7b1) to go to law, have suit at law
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: perhaps a primitive word
Citing in TDNT: 3:921, 469

  I read the old studies  with this new study
  and see Simple     truth as  we all must come to     Christ   as little ones         and all need      a raising , ALL   babes are    so vulnerable    !! 
 to be trained       and corrected   
  If a sheep or a goat          both have purpose in Gods pleasure       , with out the contrast       we  would lack the understanding
  Sheep are   ADULT   or trained and still  needy  totally  dependent on protection   of the Shepherd and the   sheep dogs that     keep the    flock   together in wide pastures as they age and are  kept  safe 
  Goats  go off alone   often and get into situations  that   they can    carouse   and forage  for food that sheep would never eat    , they are wild   by nature and   do great in the wilderness    , where sheep die without  supervision       
  where as goats by nature     need little   
  for me its just showing the sheep are totally dependent on the  Shepherd and the goats are not
  and this is faith     as an example of the sheep and goat     divisions
 But as little ones all     are  totally dependent on   God and     none can enter the Kingdom of God   but as little ones
 as Jesus separates  them  when they become of age         to the left or right
  to  hear His voice and do not follow another  where a goat would follow  as  it keeps searching  and wander off         for  its needs     to be met
  This maybe   what you mean WW , not sure          , you will let me know right Brother T ?     
 I did love the studies all of the old ones too   and well as this thread          , but with only the understnding  I have now can I even   get this much      right or wrong   
  God bless you and yours  :flowerred:
FAQs Regarding UR / Re: I am not UR
« Last post by Tom on October 23, 2014, 05:39:26 PM »
I don't perceive believing in universal reconciliation as a denomination or a sect because I think it is just a fuller understanding of what Christ accomplished on the cross that is not taught to church folks because it doesn't conform to church doctrine of torture in fire forever, but it is clearly stated in scripture. So it is the doctrine of scripture not of a sect. That's why I believe it. I don't believe any of the creeds of the church. Scripture is the only creed I need.

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20) 
Welcome Central - **FIRST POST MUST BE MADE HERE / Re: Hi There :-)
« Last post by rosered on October 23, 2014, 05:20:00 PM »
Rosered to Ronny
  wow you have been  though many things Bro Ronnie

  so glad you are on the mend       

Ronny to Rosered:
Thank you. :-) And I have one more doctors appointment tomorrow. Most everything looking real good now. :-) And I hope she will tell me that I can stop taking/using the two medicines she prescribed me. Maybe,seeing how far things have healed up now? But one thing I'm using is a steriod ointment and with that,I'm supposed to only get out in the sunlight,for a limited amount of time. I can't like that, 'cause as I've gotten to feeling better,I want to be outside,a lot more! :-) Well,it's cooled off here now and since fall has to NE Texas,I would like to start a fall garden. :-) Would have to take it slow,until my strength builds up;but still,I really would like to get on with,just making a start on such! :-)

Rosered to Ronny:
now ,
 I too was brainwashed into thinking  hell and the fiery pits of   Gehenna    was awaiting everyone   90 % of the population     
 I trusted  , that is what you are supposed to do right ?
  and kept hoping    God would save me if I tried  real hard
    wore  out  doing all that  they asked  and it seemed  so fake     to me
 I had questions   real ones and they never had a  good answer to them     , it did not settle  with peace in my soul right .

Ronny to Rosered:
Yes,that is so much the way,so many of us are taught in church. Falsely taught to believe,that to believe and trust church leaders,is the same as us believing and trusting God. 

And as I've said,I'm too hard of hearing now,even with a hearing aid,to get any good out of going to a local church;but I am so glad there are church programs on TV,that are captioned for the dear/hard of hearing! :-) I watch 4 of those,on a fairly regular basis. And starting 19 years ago,God especially started using one of those preacheres,to help me. This one preacher,he taught a lot on listening to God,talking to God and asking God. And he made it very plain,that there is only one God and he or no other preacher is that! :-) And he said,the worst he got upset in church,was when some people treated him,as if he were God! Now I never agreed with this preacher on everything and I still don't;but God used him to help me. And what I much appreciate in him,is how he expressed love and caring for all other people and that he has humility. I appreciate that in any preacher I see such in,no matter that I don't agree with them just alike,on everything. I don't have to,for God to use such people,to bless me.
Rosered to Ronny:
 One day  sitting on the church pew       the preacher was  using this man as an example  ,  he saw mowing   his lawn and  judged that poor fellow    as to not being in church
     and  something   SPOKE within asked me   do you believe that ?
  I said NO ,     GOD can save anyone any where any time HE IS  GOD     !
  and   than asked  why are you here ?

Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-)

 Ronny to Rosered:
  I left and never looked back         
   and my sister has been a huge help  for the family
  so many things  happened and  your right  in the evil   of chaos          Gods  good was always found !!

Ronny to Rosered:
Amen! :-) And though we may not always see it and understand it at the time,we can still know that it's there and that God will bring good,out of all evil! :-)

Rosered to Rommy:
 Love saves us all   ,   not fear and  despising      :flowerred:

Ronny to Rosered:
Amen and amen! :-) And God is love! :-) And the only ones that Jesus Christ gave what for to,at times in the Bible,is the self righteous religious folk,who thought they were better than everyone else! (ha) LoL And God did the same for me. First,when God was saving me and showed me my sinful selfrighteousness and let me compare myself and that,to God and God's holiness. And as I say,when God did that for me,I didn't come off looking good at all! LoL But that was the goodness of God,that led me to repentance towards God. :-) Then in the year after God saved me,I stumbled back into that self righteousness some. Not as bad as I had been;but I still went back into that some. And he next year,this older brother and I,we were back at that same Bible camp,where God had saved me,the year before. Well,wouldn't you know,for the entire solid week,the young peoples teacher,he taught on nothing;but the sin of self righteousness! :-( LoL And by the end of the week,God had again brought me to repentance on that. :-) But when I went up at church there,the last service of the Bible camp,the preacher wasn't interested, in my coming forward and repenting of my self righteousness.  That really puzzled me then and I couldn't figure out why that particular preacher acted like that? Many years later,it finally hit me,that at the time,he was probably having trouble,with his own self righteousness. (ha)

Lol I do believe your better    Bro Ronnie!!
  That is good , we are at the end of fall harvest and lots of canning is over   , we cannot do    fall gardening in Southern Indiana   , we had our first dandy frost last night !        so the   living things are dying off    again and    every thing is getting ready for the winter    dormant    sleep
 I hope you can grow a few things this fall since      you missed out on the summer   lot !!

   Oh confessions     of the babes of Christianity      I was so foolish to think , I am ready and clean Jesus if you take me  now I can go , but if you wait ,I will mess up for sure   and get dirty again ,   Just like a child getting ready for the   big     party in your clean  clothes      and   there is that mud hole to play in while you wait on the others   to get  ready     lol    while  Papa and mama  cleans us up    ha ! ha !
  Oh the minds  of  children     
 trying to obey those laws to the     jots and tittles   ,,,,,,      its all foolish thinking and childs play ,    and are  really  innocent      in so many ways

  So I judge no one     , where ever  we are found the Lord is able to    save  us in that place ......
 I am under the impression  that we all   are like the Jews in the beginning     given the   oracles of God but have no idea how to apply them     righteously
  because we only have our own righteousness and its filthy  rags  and the  prison  trap  of Babylon    ,      our change of garments comes when we  come to Christ and put on Christ      and that to   me is the true turning point    complete surrender      of  will  and desire        to please God   in ways we have no idea how to
    when the mind of Christ is given  we can    grow in truth and grace     as little ones pleasing in the sight of God who sees  everything  right in the first place
and  makes everything right   by giving us       His Spirit and truth     and Love ,    a deep well  to draw from    , proving our lack   from the beginning
 as we also    come out of the world /Egypt        and experience       the wilderness       and end up trapped in Babylon        only to be   delivered  by Jesus     Christ

 the scribes/ readers of the Word     and oracles of God      Pharisees/ separatist  and hypocrites/ lover of themselves and their own  kind     but had   no love of   God in them    for    mankind in general      ,    Jesus always     spoke to    as   self rightness   were under the same trap of Babylon    and of abusing the law  for their own benefit     and need to gain   the things of God while they had the world     in their power
  you can not serve two masters       man  and its own   self and God       it just  does not work like that          you will hate one and the love the other and the very deeds prove your loyalty      to one or the other   

 I love Galatians  3  for this reason      for me    and what I believe ,we do die a     thousand deaths before coming to Christ    every  experience      from the womb    to leaving the world to the wilderness       to going into many teachers under the law  to   Babylon     has been a death of sorts and leave this all behind us     to Gain  more and more of  Jesus Christ         
  many tutors under the law       to come to   Christ  , this is how we as little children can enter Gods Kingdom     :HeartThrob:   from Jesus Christ and His cross    are all the gifts and inheritance        of truly becoming     sons of God though Him , no other way but by Him   by HIS OWN  Spirit and truth  can we really worship God    as it pleases Him  :HeartThrob:    ...

  ps I love the expanded  Bible  its   very helpful to me   for learning        and am a    simple gal , love the simplicity in Jesus Christ  and try to avoid    the  confusion  that  leads us to doubts   and     proving our lack of faith  in Christ    to ourselves   as other also see the struggles also .  We gain confidence in what God has done for us  , not what we have done for God ,  true  humility   in my opinion /judgement    is depending on our Father      for everything and every need  .
  God bless you and yours,  my brother in Christ      :flowerred:
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