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Christian Life / Certain Aspects of Truth - a Certain View
« Last post by lastpost on July 05, 2015, 03:28:33 PM »
Everybody is different and therefore sees the Truth subjectively - in their own way. This is my opinion regarding certain aspects of Truth which I personally believe to be from the Spirit, so I make no claim on it, yet it is how I regard certain aspects of Truth.

I believe that those who surrounded the Sacred One, the Messiah, represented all types - yet ironically, His greatest enemies were those who should have been His own. His greatest enemies were the custodians of the Truth of that day. To them temptation came thus: 'This man, this prophet - he will take from us all that which we prize the most, we must get rid of him or we ourselves are undone'.

Two things, in my opinion, held the minds of the teachers and the preachers of that day - on the one hand love of possessions and gluttony for power; on the other intellectual pride.

It appears to me that there have been many so-called holy men who have devoted their energies and their powers to penetrating into the knowledge connected with God and His creation - but if one comes into their midst and, in gentleness, bids them lay aside some of the furniture of their mind and return to simple things, they will have none of him. Not the possessions of the world but the possessions of the mind of the body, present almost an equal temptation to such as these.

The One with All-Knowledge, the One who is Wisdom, came into the world of His day and, to all, gave those simple truths - the patient life, the bestowal of the gift of love, the refraining from retaliation, the forgiving unto seventy times seven. It is little wonder, to me, that those filled with love of power and pride of mind spurned the message and crucified Him. He was none of them and He sought to tear from them that which was their god.

It appears to me that the Master deliberately imposed upon Himself mighty reservations. Christ Jesus could have sent out a thought-form and controlled the raging throng around Him, He could have subjected the teachers, the lawyers and the scholars to the complete control of His will.

But the Tender One passed amongst the masses and looked down with compassion upon all - for indeed, as I see it, they were as little children in their blindness - as little children in their defencelessness - He passed amongst the misery of their conditions, and His Hand went out here and His understanding glanced there - and in their joy He found the only joy which was the experience of His earthly life.

By going back in thought and in love on that olden time, it can be seen that they were bound by much; indeed that which we name disease, and a thousand horrors hidden from us - this was their daily sight, and if perchance a stab went through their hearts, they were powerless to help, and they passed out of the seething throng into some quiet corner to forget, to lose themselves in the contemplation of this, in the unravelling of that. It was the 'life' of the world, and they understood scarce a fragment, for the darkness was within.

There is a principle abroad, so it seems to me, that all those who have followed after and carried the message of the suffering Christ - as that message was given by the Christ - they too have suffered in their turn. There have been many who have claimed themselves as the representatives of the Holy Master, but they have surrounded themselves with a hundred things which Christ ruled out of His own emanations. They have withdrawn from the reality of the masses and have enriched the mind at the expense of the soul - an unbalance has occurred. Though the written Word was before them, though that mighty Example was laid out in a way that cannot be ignored, the world's way proved too strong, and the Christ way was followed only in part.

In my own opinion, there is a sorrow which assails such as these when sight is their own, for they cannot plead that ignorance which was the lot of many of those who were the enemies of the Beloved in that olden time. In that time, the Lord God Jehovah was regarded as an Almighty Being, yet the priests had so perverted Truth that the people assumed Him to be surrounded by treasures and comforts and luxuries which the richest part of the physical world could never produce. Around Him there were legions of slaves and servants who waited but to obey His slightest command.

I believe that this was the God built up by the minds of man, because to them that only was great which had great possessions. Yet, those who follow after do not have this same excuse. They have the life of the Holy One, His humble origin, the toil, the many privations, and those years of definite ministry among the ones He loved so well.

The toil cannot be exaggerated, the expended effort and the weariness of those years, the extremes were extremes so severe, that the strongest body at times was sore put to withstand them - but the Master He thought ever of others and never of Himself.

We think of Christ because He is all in all to us. His followers of olden times, dear to us, they have their place, but the One enshrined is the Beloved, the Christ who walked this little earth, who suffered as we have suffered yet more so - as we can never suffer - who understands all that the body and its pangs can represent.

We love Christ - yet there are countless numbers claiming themselves as Christians who find it almost impossible to think of God as the gentle, patient Christ. It appears to me that they ponder over His words and that expression of the Godhead, but that belongs to the past. When He has been taken from this earth as far as is expressed in the Sacred Record, once more a King, a Governor, a Powerful Ruler - that was God.

In my opinion, when those who have followed the commandments of Christ pass hence, it will be the same tenderness and patience, the same sweetness and humility that will meet them as their God. And because of this, there are thousands believing in the One True God. I also believe that many will look in vain for one great in material power, surrounded by that furniture which, to them, means so much - the rich garments and the vessels - those things beautiful to the physical sight, but these are as nothing, nothing when once a soul has looked in the eyes of Christ and read there the gigantic humility of the Lord God of all.

Christ does not change, it is man who changes his conception of the Sacred One. Because the Creator is the Creator, so also He is humility Itself. Only the Creator of all could rise to such heights. We, in our turn, for ever seek to hold the humble heart, and when the Master gives of Himself to us - even as He ministered to those we name the disciples in the days of old - when our God ministers to us, so then, out of the wonder of it all, we gather to ourselves a little more of that humility which is His alone.

Referring now to those who have challenged the further revelation of Truth by the Holy Spirit today: How great a comfort should be in ones heart and mind, for the very arguments they bring against a greater understanding of the Love of God, they are precisely the same as those addressed to the Master and the message He sought to teach.

Someone once asked: 'What is Truth?' I understand that there have been countless millions since who have asked: 'What is Truth?' In my opinion, the answer lies open before them, but it is not that 'Truth' which they want. I believe this should be considered seriously because within its folds lies a most terrible temptation.

As many people know, TRUTH walked amongst man. And by His simplicity, by all that materialistic thought which He dispensed with, He illustrated The Truth; but His own rejected Him and deemed Him worthy of death. In these so-called enlightened days, there are the same minds, the same evasions, and only the few ask 'What is Truth' and take the answer which God has provided for them.

I do not think people should allow any misgiving to enter their understanding that the Father over-rules all lives. By that very similarity of experience, a person is honoured in a way the physical mind cannot grasp - he or she is linked to the Master Christ by the very criticism which has been thrown against them. The Truth is held, but it is not that Truth which these others so desire. The Truth they look for and the only Truth that they will recognise, is that which allows them to retain the elements of power, those possessions which make the earthly pathway pleasanter, and those accolades from the masses for their apparent knowledge - so they think.

So time passes, and precious opportunity is scattered on every side, but according to my understanding the day must come when all those with the great minds, and all those with the great possessions, must come back to the simple life and the humble heart - to that nakedness which God, as Christ, demonstrated for all to see - if they had the will to look.

It should be remembered, I believe, that one may suffer under attack and his or her heart may ache, but in time, to them, those who struck will come. And they - before they can enter into conditions of peace - they must shed the furniture of the mind, shed the physical will and those embellishments of material life to which they cling, even when the physical life is no more. And as a pilgrim, as the Master, take the humble way, the way of persecution, and in turn, the Garden and the Cross, until they are born again.

I perceive that those in sacred, quiet conditions have a gift impossible to express in the language of the world. Because of that built up over the past, because of the workings of the Holy Spirit, so there is that which is as a ray, a faint ray from the Mind of God Himself. And perceiving this, one should fill their hearts and minds with joy, for they have that which nothing of the earth can purchase, and nothing of the earth can take away.

In ones grip one has fragments of that great Truth which God represents, and because the will is there, so one can focus on that expression of God, given to man in Christ. And when the earth way is ended, one shall see Him, see the Creator, and feel upon oneself the radiance of His tender, most understanding Love - the gentleness and the humility of His concern for you. That is Truth and that is God, according to my opinion.


Indeed, when you consider the word evil as we have had it defined for us, it gets very complicated. For example, you mentioned, and rightfully so, that burning children in fire is something that had not ascended on his heart. Read a few verses later, and you see where he says 'I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters; and they shall eat everyone the flesh of his friend, in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies, and those who seek their life, shall distress them.' Jer 19:9. The Hebrew is emphatic here. He does not simply stand by and let this happen, he is the very cause of this happening.

The key to me in understanding this a little more clearly is, not the action itself, but His relationship to it. The burning of children is said to have not 'ascended on his heart'.
Compare this with what He inspired Jeremiah also to write in his lamentation:

For though He afflicted, Yet He shall show compassion According to the greatness of His kindnesses. For He has not afflicted from His heart, Nor does He grieve the children of men.
Lam 3:32,33

Notice that he indeed is the cause of the affliction, and such affliction is disjointed, (the concrete meaning of evil), yet this affliction was not from his heart. To have something done 'from the heart', is a Hebrew idiom, and, correct me if I am wrong, but I also think I remember it being an English idiom as well, having to do with doing something willingly, in agreement with, as being a part of you.

Maybe it is sort of like a parent who might use the rod lovingly on their wayward child for rebellion. They do not do so from the heart, not willingly, but nevertheless, they do it for the bringing about of the greater good.

I as a human have a very hard time wrapping my mind around trying to understand the most abhorrent evils as having anything ultimately to do with a greater good, but I must trust in the one who has it all under his control. That is how I currently understand it.


I am grateful, as are others I am certain, Ronen, for your input and efforts - clearly your researches and application provide for you a deep, meaningful and beneficial spiritual understanding (viewing Truth as the beginning, middle and end - the Whole - being particularly interesting).

I believe that, due to the sacred nature of the Scriptures and the rules which God has set into being towards its compilation, a spiritual meaning of varying expressions is contained in every word.

While I believe that the ancient people of the Old Testament as a whole were not of a similar state of spiritual understanding as those main placed characters who appear in the Sacred Record as guiding lights in the name of God, I do not want to cause any offence when I say that I do not hold a literal truth, except at the central core, to some of the stories passed down through generations, gathered together and recorded and re-recorded (in my opinion) at various times.

But nevertheless, I reiterate that I hold that the spiritual meaning of such passages is of everlasting moment in comparison to some embellished transient literal truth around which is built up that given by those who had the key to the hidden spiritual meaning. I say this because it is not my intention to upset people on their own spiritual path which they must rightly follow, and yet be able to express my own differing opinion.

I believe that the revelation of God to His people is according to their own capacity to assimilate it. Man cannot receive what he is not able to receive. I see the unfoldment of man's conception of God as generally progressive (although there is sometimes a back stepping).

I see, for instance, that a people who are capable of building high places and passing their children through a vile sacrifice - that such a people are not in any way fitted to a great understanding of a loving God. Hence, due to man's own consciousness, he received that aspect of God that could have a beneficial effect upon him - namely the Great Ruler, hence:

'I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters; and they shall eat everyone the flesh of his friend, in the siege and in the distress, with which their enemies, and those who seek their life, shall distress them.' Jer 19:9

And so, to cut a long story short, then came the Loving Saviour, claiming Himself to represent the Father, if they had seen Him, they had seen the Father. Then, and now, man is given that aspect of God which he had become fitted to receive. So came the Holy Spirit, and so the Holy Spirit is still with us, working away on man.

So, in short, according to my understanding, when God is portrayed as saying that He will bring hideous evils upon man, this is but the form of Deity to which man would respond to halt his downward spiral into further and further evil.

I believe that while God is the Creator, He joys in the love that His children offer back to Him and also, as importantly, the love that they offer to His other children. Thus He gives certain choices and abilities to His children, and if those choices violate His laws - such as child sacrifice - then there is more evil created - it is man who has done such evil, hence:

'(They) have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons with fire, burnt-offerings to Baal, that I commanded not, nor spake of, nor did it come up on My heart' Jer.19:5

So, on one level, God created everything and therefore one might declare that God created evil, but on another level, man is creating the evil against the Will of God.

Therefore, my own personal view is that God created life, and it is the life that creates the evil through that part of that life which makes it a child of God in contrast to God Himself - if only man would not oppose His kind commandments. It is, to put it another way, man separating himself from union with God that cause evil to arise.

I also believe that when man creates evil, he brings to himself the consequences of his evil creation, which is designed to bring him back to a restored, wholesome, healed spiritual state.

Hence, I believe that, as man's understanding and conception of his God increases, when one tells man that he has a glorious, wonderful future life in Eternity with an unthinkable loving God who has thought-out the most exquisite future spiritual marvels for His own children - then in saying such, it must always be accompanied with severe warnings, such as, I believe, a coming reckoning from which none shall escape, and which shall include remembrance of every tiniest detail and motive which violated the laws of God laid down so clearly by the Light of the World. Not to do so, in my opinion, is to be a false shepherd. And none can rightly say Christ's message was not available to them - again, my opinion.

This is simply a concise expression of how I see the issue in order to express my opinion, which really would take a whole lifetime to expand upon.

We are ultimately talking about the God who many profess to be Love, and it is just not possible to exaggerate the Love of God.


Yes, I can relate to this.

The closer we get to God, the less fear in our lives.

Matthew 14:28Peter said to Him, "Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water." 29And He said, "Come!" And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, "Lord, save me!"

We need to keep our eyes on Him, not on our storms.

I lived in fear, for so much of my life. The world and God look very different without those chains, now. I thank Him, everyday, for setting this captive, free.

Thank you for sharing this, rodgertutt. 
by Walter Lanyon

Fear can manifest only because of a belief in separation. As long as you are something apart from God you will experience, in one form or another, fear. It is subtle and hidden like a poisonous serpent coiled in the grass, liable to strike at any time--at the most unguarded moment, when least expected.
Its only power is given to it by thought, and it can be swollen by thought from a serpent into a dragon. All thoughts of evil are like toy balloons in that they are enlarged until finally the capacity is overtaxed and they burst. Sooner or later a fear will explode itself, however much or little damage it has done.
The panacea for all fear is your union with God.
The moment you are separated from ME and wander into the thought world (the vacuum of separation), you are subject to the laws of fear. The one who is filled with fear sees the "ten thousand fall at your right hand," and is so convinced of the reality and power of evil that he fails to notice the one who passes through unscathed.
"Stand and see the salvation of the Lord" has a definite, positive value to you NOW. For you are beginning to sense-see the power of being one instead of two. You are beginning to appropriate the instantaneous relief felt from this ONENESS.
This sudden appropriation of ONENESS is accompanied by the consciousness of how to eliminate the object of, or the belief in, fear. There are different "cities" of refuge into which you may run for every differing degree of fear; yet all are the same God. This "running" into God is not as symbolical as it appears. It is an actual fusing of you with the Father within you, and from that moment you are a majority, and you will know the NOTHINGNESS of the fear belief.
We arrive finally at the point, which is so full of the acceptance of God that it can and does say, "Even if You slay me, yet I will say You are God"---and the last stand is taken. Even if You slay me---yet will I acknowledge this One and Only Power. 
Welcome Central - **FIRST POST MUST BE MADE HERE / Re: Hello to All
« Last post by Dandelion on July 05, 2015, 07:13:53 AM »
So glad you are with us!

Humor-Poems-Songs-Movies / Re: Wonderful UR song!
« Last post by Dandelion on July 05, 2015, 07:05:29 AM »

Okay........everybody........all together, now!

 :Urock:        :hithere:        :gguitar:       :egyptdance:     :Whistle:
Welcome Central - **FIRST POST MUST BE MADE HERE / Adam and Eby
« Last post by Cravetheword2 on July 05, 2015, 06:54:54 AM »
 :iagree: I have so enjoyed my time studying those two mighty men of God, I'm looking forward to continuing going deeper in my understanding. Glory to God
Christian Life / Re: I still go to church, do you?
« Last post by twiggy on July 05, 2015, 05:20:15 AM »
This is something that I have been struggling with lately.  I am a freelance illustrator/graphic designer, so Sunday is about the only time I get out of the house.  The thing is, I've never been terribly comfortable in the church I attend; in fact, the only reason I started attending there in the first place is because it's where my husband was going when we got married.  It's just... it seems to me that in the pulpit the pastor talks as if he's seeking God, but outside of the pulpit he says some awfully strange things.  I also feel a sense of bondage when he speaks.  It's not a feeling that says, "Run away, NOW!"  (I've been in a church where I felt that); it's more a feeling that says, "There's something wrong here.  Be careful."

I'm thinking of quitting, since my husband hasn't been going lately anyway due to illness, and I can't in good conscious donate or even do much in the way of volunteering lately.    :dunno2:
Humor-Poems-Songs-Movies / Re: Wonderful UR song!
« Last post by twiggy on July 05, 2015, 03:56:47 AM »
Oh, this sounds like a good one; when I'm on a computer with speakers I will have to listen to it.  I've heard other things by NeedToBreathe and enjoyed them.  Thanks for sharing!
Welcome Central - **FIRST POST MUST BE MADE HERE / Re: Hello to All
« Last post by twiggy on July 05, 2015, 03:22:34 AM »
Thank you all for the warm welcome!  This seems like a very nice forum.  I asked God to help me know Him better and he lead me to UR; I asked God for reassurance and he lead me here - also He lead me to a video on youtube today that said, "God's judgement is love."   God is good!
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