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Christian Life / Re: War in heaven
« Last post by ed on April 18, 2014, 06:49:55 AM »
Thanks sheila.

I'm interested in the Danial take.  I've never studied it before.

I thank God for the unrest of my soul, for the unrest signifies change, and change signifies the manifestation of the kingdom of God overtaking my kingdom. Until He has accomplished the necessary overthrowing of my dragon, I will incline my heart to Him, and I will sing of His greatness and the enduring mercies of David.  I will have my rest in Him, until the kingdoms of my world become the kingdoms of the Kingly Lord.   Let the heathen rage and let the earth reel to and fro like a drunkard, but I will stand still and hold my peace, for the Lord is my deliverer and my reward.  Woe to the inhabitants of my earth, for the dragon is cast down into my earthly mind, and there will be great judgments upon that part of my fallen self, but I will stay in the house of the Lord and will open up my doors and my gates to the rising King and He and I will sup together and will drink the new wine of His kingdom and break the bread of His fellowship.  Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him!

In the book of Daniel Michael is expressly identified with the Messiah (Dan. 12:1).  In Daniel 10:21 he is called, “Michael your prince.”  This personal pronoun “your” is of interest.  The archangel is definitely a warrior, and his name means “who is like God.”  He defends the celestial realms, exalting the glorious God, yet his ministry is wondrously on behalf of God’s people.   “At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people…” (Dan. 12:1).  In I Thessalonians 4:16-17 the “voice of the archangel” is represented as the voice that awakens the dead.  “And the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven…in the voice of the archangel…and the dead in Christ shall rise first…”  Significantly, Daniel 12:1-2 draws the same connection.  “And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people…and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth SHALL AWAKE…”  And whose voice is it that quickens men and raises them out of the death-realm into the life of God?  None other than THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD!  “Verily, verily I say unto you,” Jesus asserted, “the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD, AND THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE” (Jn. 5:25).  The voice of the archangel, therefore, is the voice of the Son of God!

            There can be no doubt about it — the title “archangel” signifies CHIEF MESSENGER — and the question follows: WHO IS GOD’S CHIEF MESSENGER?   Who else but our glorious Head — the Lord Jesus Christ!  His name is called The Word of God!  “And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist — cohere, are held together.  He also is the Head of His body, the church; seeing He is the beginning, the Firstborn from among the dead, so that HE ALONE IN EVERYTHING AND IN EVERY RESPECT MIGHT OCCUPY THE CHIEF PLACE — stand FIRST and be PREEMINENT” (Col. 1:17-18, Amplified).  The name “Michael” means WHO IS LIKE GOD — an appropriate title for Him who is “the sole expression of the glory of God — the Light-being, the out-raying of the divine — and He is the perfect imprint and very image of God’s nature” (Heb. 1:3, Amplified).   No one who ever lived can be compared to our incomparable Christ, for He is King of kings and Lord of lords.  He is alive forevermore, by many infallible proofs.  At the sound of His voice all who are in the graves of sin, sorrow, and death will arise to live in His presence.  Certainly the whole Christ body, all who are made ONE IN HIM, share this life, victory, glory and image!

In the light of such a profound array of scriptures as those we have just considered, can any doubt that in the Revelation “Michael” is the code-word for our Lord Jesus Christ, the Chief Messenger; and “Michael and His angels” who fight against the dragon, and prevail, and cast the great dragon out of the heavens of the Spirit, are indeed none other than Christ and His many brethren, the manifest sons of God!  Ah, yes, the sons of God are the army of God, and Jesus Christ our Lord is the Captain of His army!  An army is for war, and there is war in heaven!  Our great Captain is He who knows the end from the beginning, and He has already written the advance report on the outcome of this war!  That report is recorded in chapter twelve of the book of Revelation.  I have read the report, and I have good news for every soldier in the Lord’s army.   Fight on, saints of God, THE VICTORY IS ASSURED!  It is indeed wonderful!
Christian Life / Re: War in heaven
« Last post by sheila on April 18, 2014, 06:31:25 AM »
well..the war is not against flesh and blood,but powers and principalities in high places. It is a spiritual warfare..Christ wages

 war in righteousness[He come to break up the work of the devil]

  in the book of Daniel you will see Gabriel prevented from getting the revelation that God desired be delivered to him

  due to the 'prince[apality] of Persia' and it was when Michael come to assist him[Gabriel] that the spiritual message

  was able to be delivered.  The stras of the heavens[angels] fight for the spiritually edify,inform reveal.

   the enmity between the seed continues..until the enemy seed's head is crushed.

      the adversary does 'war' against God's will..that is why he is called a rebellious spirit.  I will put enmity between the

 serpent's seed and the seed of the woman.
Christian Life / War in heaven
« Last post by ed on April 18, 2014, 06:08:43 AM »
I have no idea where this idea comes from.

Was there an actual war? 

For me there could not be a war with God.  I'd like for some of you to share your understanding of it.

Is it all from Revelation? 

Every time some states "there was a war in heaven" I wonder.................
My faith is not dualistic.  I don't see anything that could war with God.

Along the same lines could you all share your understanding of the devil?  I don't really get that part either.  Is there a devil being who is in charge of the evil on the world?

Thanks for your help.

Judgement and Punishment / Re: Does God punish?
« Last post by sheila on April 18, 2014, 05:19:37 AM »
well,about 50 dollars was most likely all they had left for the whole month for anything . and it was the unregenerate again

  that spent their 50 dollars at the casino. what's the difference from giving it to the crooks at the casino or the crooks of sme

  of these so called 'ministries"?  only difference is one is robbing in the name of God and the other the state.

  now this is imo Anna..but I do think I have a scriptural basis in regard to it.  no offense meant to you  :HeartThrob:

Judgement and Punishment / Re: Does God punish?
« Last post by anna274 on April 18, 2014, 05:10:35 AM »
Sheila, I live in a low-income housing apartment complex...  for the elderly and disabled...  many are wonderful, loving, gracious, generous... I am often inspired by some...  others, who often times laugh at me because I pay so much for fresh fruit and veggies... think nothing of spending $50 for a trip to the casino... 
Judgement and Punishment / Re: Does God punish?
« Last post by sheila on April 18, 2014, 04:57:53 AM »
 Anna,that's just's the poor and destitute widows thatare giving..not the unregenrate ones with money to gamble..

   I ran an adult daycare.. forthe really poor  ones..That did well to eat.

   People mistakenly think Jesus was commending the poor widow for giving all her mean's of living in the temple. Actually

   He was showing how badly Father's laws had fallen from their purpose..of providing for the poor widows,destitute,orphans

  etc. The tithe was always according to[percentage] of what you prospered.  See the generous provisions in the law for

  the poor.  In Mark 12 He had just finished speaking of the religious leaders[38-40] DEVOURING WIDOWS HOUSES

   the exploitation of widows was also what cntributed to God's house becoming a den of robbers and theives also.

   So,imo He was not holding that example of the widow,as something to emulate. But was showing the greed of the religious

leaders that robbed people in the name of worshipping God.
Humor-Poems-Songs-Movies / Re: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore?
« Last post by eaglesway on April 18, 2014, 04:50:28 AM »
That's very helpful, thank you both. I will keep praying and seeking God's will on the matter. Ultimately I believe he is calling me out of the church. I just need to take a step out in faith and trust him.   :Peace2:

I am not saying that most of us don't already understand this but, imo,  we cannot be called out of the church- it is His body, the ecclesia. We can be in man's imitation of the church and called to be there as salt and water, but "not one stone will be left standing upon another" of that edifice. We can be called outside the "camp"- which I consider to be the ground in between that which is living and moving forward and that which is dead or dying- as a witness that God is no longer dwelling in it in His glory, which is the presence of the Spirit working in love through the "living stones" of the habitation of God in the spirit", which is fitly joined together upon the chief cornerstone, Jesus, always standing tall in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, constructed through the generations of this age and the last- the New Jerusalem coming down(being revealed) out of the heavenlies clothed in white linen, the righteous acts of the saints(called out ones). The ecclesia of God, the gathered together called out ones is the real church, His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all- and He is its head(Eph 1) .

Discerning the difference between the living temple/body and the synagogues that have died(strengthen that which is living but is about to die....Rev) is something God is teaching in every generation, and that we will all see in the first resurrection(again, this is my opinion:o).
Judgement and Punishment / Re: Does God punish?
« Last post by anna274 on April 18, 2014, 03:47:59 AM »
Oh Seth, don't be sad... those little old ladies delight in giving (outward behavior) "tithes"...   I live with many little old ladies who rush to play bingo, travel to casinos, etc., etc.,.... they're doing what they as unregenerate beings are capable of doing...   If you're going to be sad... be sad that many of us who claim to be born again are wasting time... are we doing what we are capable of doing????? 
Judgement and Punishment / Re: Does God punish?
« Last post by Seth on April 18, 2014, 03:37:16 AM »
I think about all the little old ladies giving thier last dimes to the tithe for to be spent on yahts...makes me sad
Judgement and Punishment / Re: Does God punish?
« Last post by anna274 on April 18, 2014, 03:34:05 AM »
The level of irony that God works with is astonishing to me. Christians have looked into the New Testament and came away with the idea that it primarily speaks about judgment for the unbelievers, and that the way out is a "sinners prayer" then you're hunky dory.

The very fact that Christ says, "forgive them, for they know not what they do" is a huge clue as to the severity of judgment upon those who should know better, the same folks who have their "sinners prayer" under their belt, and therefore are under the misapprehension that Christ will not find them with the wrong "garment" in this wedding we call the Church, and will not throw them into the "fire" outside his City. He warns us about it, and we who say we stand, should all take heed lest we fall.

I have found the New Testament to speak volumes more about God's judgment upon his own house - that is, professing Christians (including the parables) - than those who never heard of Christ. To be clear, I believe everyone has been reconciled, yet I also believe that forgiveness is the only the foundation for growth, and that growth is the real point of the Gospel, not only forgiveness. Therefore, I also believe nobody escapes the righteous and loving judgment of God, and I believe that God causes man to learn righteousness through those judgments.

Thank you, Seth, for loving us enough to bring this to our attention... I for one will give it my prayerful attention. 
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