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Lounge / Re: Adam judged God.
« Last post by rosered on Today at 03:07:39 PM »
Red warning bar?

  The red bar saying another has posted are you sure you want to post?   and you have to re-click   ha ! :laughing7:

 It must never happen to you it does for me once in a while   
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Now another has joined the debate, he says that God does offer salvation to all, but many choose to reject it and thus are damned.

Salvation is not an offer to be received or rejected by so called free will.

Some have been chosen to be saved for eonian life in Christ, but those who are not will be saved at the consummation of the eons when God will be all in all.

"We rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers" (1 Timothy 4:10).

"Through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20).

"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all" (1 Corinthians 15:20 thru 28).

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
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Lounge / Re: Adam judged God.
« Last post by WhiteWings on Today at 02:51:48 PM »
Red warning bar?
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FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #51

VESSELS OF DISHONOR

For anyone who may be interested, all of the arguments presented by ETers that universalism is not scriptural have been refuted in detail in this online book.
HOPE BEYOND HELL - GERRY BEAUCHEMIN (published 2007)
It can an be downloaded free and read online here
http://hopebeyondhell.net/

I thank God for being able to see that believers in eternal torment will remain believers in eternal torment for as long as God wants them to.

God needs them as vessels of the grossest dishonor, a foil of contrast against which He will demonstrate the power of His love that never fails and His undefeatable grace.

But after the resurrection God will refashion all believers in eternal torment into vessels of honor because they were marred in the Potter's hands and they never leave His hands.
The doctrine of eternal torment is part of the black background against which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation, using the brushes of His love that never fails, and His grace that cannot be defeated.

After believers in eternal torment have done their very best to convince others about what God will not do, God is going to do it anyway.

Believers in eternal torment will probably not want to have anything to do with this link, but others on this forum might.
Why not check it out?
Read the reviews first – just a suggestion.
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/what-others-are-saying/

HOPE BEYOND HELL - GERRY BEAUCHEMIN
http://hopebeyondhell.net/

HOPE BEYOND HELL BOOK AUDIO  - Gerry Beauchemin
http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/audio-book-with-text/
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Book of Revelation / Re: Souls Under the Altar
« Last post by rosered on Today at 01:49:45 PM »
Quote
The reality is that the earthly stuff is just a shadow of the heavenly IMO
That means all we see in John's vision must also have a earthly counterpart.

"presbyteros" indeed has the meaning you gave in Greek but imo that's missing the point. You should look what it means in the Hebrew mind. Just as in the Greek the Hebrew elders were old and wise. Not much difference there.
The Jewish elders are the original 12 tribal elders, leaders or whatever you prefer to call them. Their function was to let their own tribe prosper which wasn't always good for the nation (12 tribes combined). In Rev 4:4 there is some sort of co-reign between a tribal elder and a kingdom elder (Apostle)

I'm not 100% sure about this....
The elders can't be Levites because they never were part of the 12 tribes. The Levites are the 13th tribe. The only tribe without land. They were leaders of the Temple which stood on the land of another tribe.

12+1
12 tribal elders + 1 Levite = High priest
12 apostles + 1 Jesus=High Priest

BTW white robes and crown aren't reserved for Levites only.
Every groom was dressed like a king (as far as his budget went) during his marriage.
They always wore a white robe. Because most were very poor most had a crown of roses. With thorns BTW. The rose symbolized the beauty of marriage and the thorns the bad times in marriage. Jesus wore a crown on the cross...


This is getting a bit of topic. My point is if we in the OT read about tribal elders we read/know they are leaders of the various tribes (yes also old and wise), why assume in Revelation they suddenly are something else? (just old, Levites, maybe not human at all)

  This is   great stuff Bro T
 
    and it makes sense   Jesus told them     they would be  judging with Him , just as the 12   elders were   already   in the regeneration

  and that is what is  going on now though the natural man and eyes do not see it at all       
 
 and Johns Vision was at hand , it was coming  quickly ,  and coming to pass   , the Roman rulers   Nero in that day    was the beastly king


 and Do believe every  generation has these  types and shadows to    be fulfilled      in them  making Gods Word    perpetual   as Jesus saying   man shall not live by bread alone  but every WORD that proceeds  out of His mouth       
 we know Jesus is the bread of Life   ,   yet the Law   of Moses is also in effect / the natural force  is not abated  still     as some are going though this   transition  , the times and seasons till every jot and tittle is 
fulfilled     in that generation      and the new  regeneration   begins in them 

  I am under   the impression it is  individually      as to one by one   He visits us this is why no one Knows BUT GOD HIMSELF 
 
 A thief in the night does  surprise    the  sleeping   house holder  and this is how He comes to us  when you least expect it
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Lounge / Re: Adam judged God.
« Last post by rosered on Today at 01:30:59 PM »
I may not be understanding correctly, but it seems that Adam had a point in hiding. Did he find mercy?
Yes. Blood sacrifice/slave is the first of the 4 covenants that become marriage.
A wedding garment has 4 layers. The first layer's name in Hebrew is the same word as:
Gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them

So imo God instantly started fixing things....


 That is   interesting    Tony !!  and saw the red warning bar of another post !
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Lounge / Re: Adam judged God.
« Last post by rosered on Today at 01:26:07 PM »
I may not be understanding correctly, but it seems that Adam had a point in hiding. Did he find mercy? The Adamic life is a hard one of death and separation. I can hear humanity also in Christ's cry. It seems like God has dealt with us harshly and we are helpless without Him. I am grateful that Christ has reconciled us to God, but I will admit that sometimes life's experiences make that hard to believe.

  Hi Deena 
 I do believe this was the  first time Adam experienced   fear  of the Lord . Which is the beginning of Wisdom   
 But lost something more,  innocence .
Oh that tree of knowledge  :sigh: and becoming "aware"
 
 My nature  changed  and   remember  very well  when I  was in the wrong, I run from God and not to Him
 and  only  regret not running to Him sooner
 
 
 Yes the  cup of suffering , you do good and your crushed   you do evil your crushed 
  Sometimes feel this  world  is hell /grave  the  darkness and unseen  described in the Word of God
 
And  believe  our own thoughts can torment us ,  as it appears   at times
 
 and Agree with Dale  we  do not realize  Gods wrath is for a moment and  His mercy endures forever
 I think of this life as a   blink of an eye   
 its short here on   the earth  even if   80 plus years   , when you compare it to endlessness
 
 Mercy is of Gods  true nature ,  He sent Jesus Christ here  in the flesh to make    make us "aware " 
 
 even though we are only here for a short time  , That is mercy !    and cutting back our days of flesh and blood   from  almost a 1000  years  to    70 or 80 more or less   again that is   mercy to me     big time .

 
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Lounge / Re: Adam judged God.
« Last post by WhiteWings on Today at 12:56:20 PM »
I may not be understanding correctly, but it seems that Adam had a point in hiding. Did he find mercy?
Yes. Blood sacrifice/slave is the first of the 4 covenants that become marriage.
A wedding garment has 4 layers. The first layer's name in Hebrew is the same word as:
Gen 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them

So imo God instantly started fixing things....

/EDIT I highlighted 'skin' but I should have highlighted 'garments'.

כּתּנת  /  כּתנת
kethôneth  /  kûttôneth
BDB Definition:
1) tunic, under-garment
1a) a long shirt-like garment usually of linen
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from an unused root meaning to cover [compare H3802]
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1058a
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Lounge / Re: Adam judged God.
« Last post by Deena on Today at 12:24:43 PM »
I may not be understanding correctly, but it seems that Adam had a point in hiding. Did he find mercy? The Adamic life is a hard one of death and separation. I can hear humanity also in Christ's cry. It seems like God has dealt with us harshly and we are helpless without Him. I am grateful that Christ has reconciled us to God, but I will admit that sometimes life's experiences make that hard to believe.
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