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Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: 1 Peter 4:18
« Last post by dajomaco on Today at 01:30:02 AM »
Really, I do not think that death is sufficient for some. I think the second death will be, as an extension of Adams death following the wicked into the coming age- the wrath to come, which all the prophets and apostles(imo) do bear witness to as well.


Could this be considered a form of purgatory?
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Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: 1 Peter 4:18
« Last post by Seth on Today at 12:33:22 AM »
Did you think I was talking about literal death? That might be the miscommunication. I believe the lake of fire is death in the 1 Tim 5 sense. The widow who seeks after pleasure is dead though she lives. I don't see that as a physical death.

I do not believe that this life IS the final judgement, but that God uses the blindness of this world as an element in the final judgement. I believe the final judgement will look something like what happened in the parable of the prodigal son. That's the outer darkness. I believe resurrection will occur but some will be cast away into that kind of darkness.

In a metaphorical way, that's how I see the warning of Hebrews 10, the fire language looking very much like the language of Isaiah 9 and 30
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Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: 1 Peter 4:18
« Last post by eaglesway on Today at 12:27:49 AM »
As for more scriptures about why I believe that, I wrote my reasoning here: http://mercifultruth.com/links-savedbygrace.html

It ended up being 2 parts because there was alot to discuss. Beliefs are based on literal statements if scripture but also on trends and clues. It's a belief not an end all be all truth.

The scriptures that I base my reasoning on are in the paper and would be hard to put in a single forum reply because it's a lot to discuss.

Sure, I understand, it is dense undergrowth to walk through conceptually and scripturally. And I agree with reaping in this life as a form of kolassis(correction) and pyr(purging fire)- I just don't think that is the limit of it.
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Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: 1 Peter 4:18
« Last post by eaglesway on Today at 12:25:21 AM »
Yes, I get that- but I began my contribution to the thread explaining that Hebrews 10:26-31 may be viewed including the scriptures on aionian kolassis, in order to combat an interpretation of eternal torment.

That does not exclude the judgments that come in life that are the harvest of sowing wicked seed- but I do not think those reapings explain the text in Hebrews 10, not for me- and certainly not for most ETrs or EDrs. That's just how I see it. And I do not believe aionian correction should be minimized and definitely not ignored. There are simply too many verses, from Enoch, to Jesus in the gospels, to John in the apocalypse that speak of it.

I think most ETrs recognize these scriptures becausee they are true and real. They just need to see the other side of the coin- the purpose and conclusion and nature of those judgments. So I think that minimizing or denying aionian kolassis is an error.

Really, I do not think that death is sufficient for some. I think the second death will be, as an extension of Adams death following the wicked into the coming age- the wrath to come, which all the prophets and apostles(imo) do bear witness to as well.

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Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: 1 Peter 4:18
« Last post by Seth on Today at 12:17:57 AM »
As for more scriptures about why I believe that, I wrote my reasoning here: http://mercifultruth.com/links-savedbygrace.html

It ended up being 2 parts because there was alot to discuss. Beliefs are based on literal statements if scripture but also on trends and clues. It's a belief not an end all be all truth.

The scriptures that I base my reasoning on are in the paper and would be hard to put in a single forum reply because it's a lot to discuss.
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Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: 1 Peter 4:18
« Last post by Seth on Today at 12:06:05 AM »
Ok, so going back, here is what I said, "I believe just how God used Babylon to judge Israel (rather than send a lightening bolt) the core elements of God's final judgement are present in the world already."

Just wanted to be clear on that. I didn't say that the Bible literally says that. But the reasons I believe that are in reference to the trend that God used to deliver Israel to "the jailers" which in their case was Babylon.Then he used the same technique with Israel's enemies. I see sin itself as the ultimate jailer. Paul talked about being sold into carnality. I believe the outer darkness that they will be cast into is the same as Israel's blindness. Darkness like the prodigal son before he remembered his father. The prodigal son forgot his father.
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: The Mark of the Beast
« Last post by eaglesway on March 04, 2015, 11:58:36 PM »
He will teach His people on His holy mountain. But it will require some birth pangs before everyone gets there :o)

A couple ages more worth of those maybe LOL
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Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved / Re: 1 Peter 4:18
« Last post by eaglesway on March 04, 2015, 11:54:47 PM »
All you are saying is that God judges in the earth, which I think EVERYONE agrees with. I have been talking about the ages to come. I would like to know where it says God will only judge by the elements of the world, or shows that to be in anyway exclusive of aionian kolassis or aionian pyr after the GWT.

We can really only see what the scriptures reveal, so if I ask for verses, it is because I am interested in the concept, not to cause dissension. I usually hold these types of discussions with the accompanying scriptures for what I think the word presents. That doesnt mean I am right, or am even sure myself, but if someone is presenting an idea I dont understand or I think leaves out signifigant verses- I ask to see some verses. Thats how I think it ought to be done LOL
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: Mark of the Beast 2
« Last post by Seth on March 04, 2015, 11:52:08 PM »
I agree with that entirely. As I said, it would have to be combined in the form of leverage with a spiritual transaction, such as allegiance to an unholy spirit. Similar to the declaring of the Ceasars as gods and forcing people to acknowledge it, or not, such as during certain periods during the Roman Empire- but probably more sophisticated than that. It is certainly as possible as any other theory, imo. The inclusion of the idea of not being able to buy or sell without it gives credibility to the concept for me- as we are steadily progressing in that direction. The guise is to prevent terrorism and collect taxes and prevent black markets, but once in place it could be subverted for any purpose.

This is why I think we are still quite some distance from the end of the age, but who knows, these control mechanisms are developing exponentially for sure.

I propose that an imminent collapse of the present system, the foundations of which are being undercut by corruption, will usher in a transition to a much more oppressive system than anything we now see, is very possible, even likely.

Also, I did not say that anyone who accepted an implant would be receiving the mark of the beast, if you re-read my post, I said that it is a possibility that uch a systemm could be subverted for control at some point, and an unholy pledge of some type could be required. I also said that I see this as a "possible", and I think reasonable, thing to watch.

For something like this to occur, it would obviously be presented as benign.

I agree. That's why we must be watchful of ourselves.  :thumbsup:
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Judgement and Punishment / Re: Mark of the Beast 2
« Last post by eaglesway on March 04, 2015, 11:47:34 PM »
I agree with that entirely. As I said, it would have to be combined in the form of leverage with a spiritual transaction, such as allegiance to an unholy spirit. Similar to the declaring of the Ceasars as gods and forcing people to acknowledge it, or not, such as during certain periods during the Roman Empire- but probably more sophisticated than that. It is certainly as possible as any other theory, imo. The inclusion of the idea of not being able to buy or sell without it gives credibility to the concept for me- as we are steadily progressing in that direction. The guise is to prevent terrorism and collect taxes and prevent black markets, but once in place it could be subverted for any purpose.

This is why I think we are still quite some distance from the end of the age, but who knows, these control mechanisms are developing exponentially for sure.

I propose that an imminent collapse of the present system, the foundations of which are being undercut by corruption, will usher in a transition to a much more oppressive system than anything we now see, is very possible, even likely.

Also, I did not say that anyone who accepted an implant would be receiving the mark of the beast, if you re-read my post, I said that it is a possibility that uch a systemm could be subverted for control at some point, and an unholy pledge of some type could be required. I also said that I see this as a "possible", and I think reasonable, thing to watch.

For something like this to occur, it would obviously be presented as benign.

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