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FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #50

UNFORGIVABLE SIN

http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/spiritblasphemy.html

VERY INFORMATIVE!!
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Book of Revelation / Re: Souls Under the Altar
« Last post by WhiteWings on Today at 01:38:59 PM »

About the souls that were slain-  - I agree with Laz and Micah with Laz  (Post#3)  and  Micah (Post#7) that these souls are in their graves. .......
until the time of their resurrection, these saints cannot literally be alive. They "live" only in the vision in order to relay information regarding the passage of time and God's direct intervention at a pivotal point in God's plan.
I think that depends on what the vision really was. You are right that it's a future event (using the date the vision was giving as 'now'). But that doesn't mean the people John saw weren't really alive. Maybe his vision was just looking forward, or maybe John was transported through time? Likely/possible some of the martyrs under the altar weren't even born yet when John received his vision. So those souls weren't in their graves (at that time).
John even saw himself in Rev 4:4 because the 24 elders are the 12 original tribal elders and the 12 kingdom elders.
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Since the prayers of the saints are symbolized by incense in scripture, the altar where John saw martyred saints would most logically be the heavenly counterpart of the altar of incense. Crying out to God is like an emotional appeal to God in prayer (Heb. 5:7).
Only if the saints are priests that would be possible. Still I think they were below the altar of Sacrifice. That also had smoke rising up. This altar has 3 heaps of coals with their own function. Some burned as long as the Temple stood and portion of that heap was carried to the golden altar of incense which was tiny compared to the other altar. It was during the 30 minutes of silence, life coals were taken from the brazen altar and put on the golden Altar.
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Rev_7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Just want to say this verse must be a fly in the face with their only 5% saved doctrine. The verse doesn't mention numbers but 'no one could number' sounds like a vast quantity to me.
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But like Molly in her post #4, I see a literal meaning.
The word literal keeps popping up since I joined this forum. I always had the feeling not everybody has the same definition of literal.
I think I'm among the literal group but I don't expect to see dragons with 10 heads, horses with scorpion tails etc.

A simple no Biblical example of how literal my literal is. "The angry eagle casts fire on the beast of Babylon"
My sort of literal interpretation would be" America which has the eagle as their nation symbols bombs Saddam Houssain who ruled Iraq which was the center of the Babylonian empire".

Literal events but explained in symbolic terms. But it's very important those symbols must defined by the Bible/God itself. Otherwise a zillion false doctrines emerge.

Note: by the above I'm not dismissing any spiritual meaning. In fact I'm 100% sure there is one. It's even the most important. But without the literal meaning there is no witness. The result will be false literal and spiritual doctrines.
 :2c:
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Book of Revelation / Re: Souls Under the Altar
« Last post by WhiteWings on Today at 11:57:08 AM »
Kinda like me and the living soul in Genesis huh? I mean you always go back the Hebrew wedding. :dsunny:
Yes. Putting a lot of value in a certain verse/chapter/concept etc greatly shapes the way other verses are understood. If that makes the rest of the Bible easier to understand it's  a good thing. But if certain view 'causes problems at many other places in the Bible it might be a signal to review that view.
Every verse/concept needs at least one witness. The Bible doesn't contradict itself. If verse/concept has no witnesses and/or contradicts other Scripture there is a problem that needs to be solved. That problem can only be solved by changing the interpretation of conflicting verses/concepts.
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I think the internet is definitely helping to spread the Word :o)
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Universal reconciliation is not "more or less a form of religion found online." It's simply the truth of scripture that describes what Christ's blood on the cross really accomplished. Reconciliation with God through Christ has the same scope as creation. That is what orthodoxy fails to teach. So you could say that universal reconciliation is just the truth while orthodox doctrine hides the truth of the Father saving all mankind and reconciling all creation, and replaces the truth with the lie that the Father created most of mankind specifically to be tortured in fire forever. Which do you think best portrays the scriptural truth that "God is love?"

"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
Sorry it was a poor choice of words to say that UR is "more or less a form of religion found online".

I was first presented with ultimate reconciliation before there was an internet.
I think what I meant to say is that in this day and age, you are more likely to learn about UR on the Internet than in the church. Before the truth was hidden in people because they had no way of communicating it with others. I hope I was able to better clarify what I meant this time.
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Universal reconciliation is not "more or less a form of religion found online." It's simply the truth of scripture that describes what Christ's blood on the cross really accomplished. Reconciliation with God through Christ has the same scope as creation. That is what orthodoxy fails to teach. So you could say that universal reconciliation is just the truth while orthodox doctrine hides the truth of the Father saving all mankind and reconciling all creation, and replaces the truth with the lie that the Father created most of mankind specifically to be tortured in fire forever. Which do you think best portrays the scriptural truth that "God is love?"

"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
Sorry it was a poor choice of words to say that UR is "more or less a form of religion found online".

I was first presented with ultimate reconciliation before there was an internet.
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Universal reconciliation is not "more or less a form of religion found online." It's simply the truth of scripture that describes what Christ's blood on the cross really accomplished. Reconciliation with God through Christ has the same scope as creation. That is what orthodoxy fails to teach. So you could say that universal reconciliation is just the truth while orthodox doctrine hides the truth of the Father saving all mankind and reconciling all creation, and replaces the truth with the lie that the Father created most of mankind specifically to be tortured in fire forever. Which do you think best portrays the scriptural truth that "God is love?"

"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
Sorry it was a poor choice of words to say that UR is "more or less a form of religion found online".
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Universal reconciliation is not "more or less a form of religion found online." It's simply the truth of scripture that describes what Christ's blood on the cross really accomplished. Reconciliation with God through Christ has the same scope as creation. That is what orthodoxy fails to teach. So you could say that universal reconciliation is just the truth while orthodox doctrine hides the truth of the Father saving all mankind and reconciling all creation, and replaces the truth with the lie that the Father created most of mankind specifically to be tortured in fire forever. Which do you think best portrays the scriptural truth that "God is love?"

"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
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Book of Revelation / Re: The Revelation
« Last post by dajomaco on Today at 03:20:21 AM »
 and the man of sin    exposed Let no one in any way deceive you, for it
will not come unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son
of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself
above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God,[you are the temple of the Living God ] 
displaying himself as being God.    [God will judge  as you judge]
 2 Thessalonians 2: 3,4

 :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
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Book of Revelation / Re: The Revelation
« Last post by rosered on Today at 03:12:19 AM »

 
 Amen I agree also   How does Jesus Christ come   revealing   Gods plan  of the ages ?
  I know  many do not believe me, or maybe its understand me , when I say this ,
 
 But every last one of has a man of sin  in them   that better fear God /the devils do know and tremble]
 We have a nature that does not love  God first nor their  brother as themselves , for me this has always been the Spiritual brother in them , to deny the Christ  anointed one in them    , the least you have done unto them little ones you have done unto me   
 
 For me this was the babes in Christ     , and that applies also to the one in you as with others     
 
  this was  why Jesus said clean the inside of the cup first   [Matt 23 , luke 11]    and the  parable of the strong man of the house   [Matt 12] 
  you cannot begin to love outside     yourself , if you do not  love God nor yourself       in the Spiritual sense      of the meaning  the Christ in you and hope of  glory  ,   you will never love anyone   , they all  are looking to see   by the way you live   that you belong to Jesus Christ
 
   when they warn   those    as lovers of themselves they meant hypocrites


  and the man of sin    exposed Let no one in any way deceive you, for it
will not come unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son
of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself
above every so-called god or object of worship,
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God,[you are the temple of the Living God ] 
displaying himself as being God.    [God will judge  as you judge]
 2 Thessalonians 2: 3,4


  just play acting       hypocrite

 Strong's Concordance
hupokrités: one who answers, an actor, a hypocrite
Original Word: ὑποκριτής, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hupokrités
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-ok-ree-tace')
Short Definition: a hypocrite, dissembler
Definition: (lit: a stage-player), a hypocrite, dissembler, pretender.
HELPS Word-studies
5273 hypokritḗs (a masculine noun derived from 5259 /hypó, "under" and 2919 /krínō, "judge") – properly, a judging under, like a performer acting under a mask (i.e. a theater-actor); (figuratively) a two-faced person; a "hypocrite," whose profession does not match their practice – i.e. someone who "says one thing but does another."

[5273 (hypokritḗs) was commonly used of actors on the Greek stage. When applied in the NT, it refers to a hypocrite.

"Christianity requires that believers should be open and above-board. They should be themselves. Their lives should be like an open book, easily read" (K. Wuest, Word Studies, Vol 2, Pastoral Epistles, 1 Peter, 50,51).]

   This is one reason  why I believe and this is just my opinion   , we suffer     tribulation     to  see what we are made of      ,  no one knows how they will react to     vexation      until they are under the pressure of it   
 we can say all we want  , but it   is how  we live though it  that proves   who we are in Christ   or   that man of sin is revealed as the hidden man of the heart   IMO
     this makes us aware or  awakened to righteousness   
 
  this tribulation Paul was describing here      and we know He was sowing the seeds of righteousness/Christ /Word   as Apollos watered  them  and waiting on the  7th  trumpet to blast   but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets." (Rev 10:7)         7 times they marched around the city till the walls com tumbling down of Babylon to me ]   just as it did  for Joshua's time when Elijah told his servant to climb to the top of Mt. Carmel and "look toward the sea" for the prophesied rain. "There is nothing" he responded six straight times! Finally, on the seventh time, he saw a cloud as small as a man's hand and the rain soon followed. 1 Kings 18)  we would see Jesus/Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. !
 
 in  1 Corth15 
30 And what about us? Why do we put ourselves in danger every hour? 31 I ·die [face death] every day. ·That is true, brothers and sisters, just as it is true that I brag about you [L (I swear) by my boasting in you, brothers (and sisters), which I have] in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild animals in Ephesus [C probably a metaphor for human opponents, though possibly beasts in the arena (Acts 19; 2 Cor. 1:8–11; 2 Tim. 4:16–18)] ·only with human hopes [or from a human point of view; L according to man], I have gained nothing. If the dead are not raised, "Let us eat and drink, because tomorrow we will die [Is. 22:13; 56:12]."

33 Do not be ·fooled [deceived; misled]: "Bad ·friends [company] will ruin good ·habits [or character; morals; C a quote from the Greek poet Menander (c. 342–291 bc)]." 34 ·Come back to your right way of thinking [Come to your senses; or Sober up as you should] and stop sinning. Some of you ·do not know [or are ignorant about] God—I say this to shame you.

What Kind of Body Will We Have?
35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have?"

 36 Foolish person! When you sow a seed, it must die in the ground before it can ·live and grow [come to life].


 37 And when you sow it, it does not have the same "body" it will have later. [L But; On the contrary] What you sow is only a bare seed, maybe wheat or something else.

 38 But God gives it a body that he ·has planned [wants; has chosen] for it, and God gives each kind of seed its own body.

39 All things made of flesh are not the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds have another, and fish have another.

40 Also there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the ·beauty [splendor; glory] of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the ·beauty [splendor; glory] of the earthly bodies is another.

41 The sun has one kind of ·beauty [splendor; glory], the moon has another ·beauty [splendor; glory], and the stars have another. And each star is different in its ·beauty [splendor; glory].

42 It is the same with the dead who are raised to life. ·The body that is "planted" will ruin and decay [L It is sown/buried in corruption], but it is raised ·to a life that cannot be destroyed [imperishable; L in incorruption].

43 ·When the body is "planted," it is without honor [L It is sown/buried in dishonor], but it is raised in glory. ·When the body is "planted," it is weak [L It is sown/buried in weakness], but ·when it is raised, it is powerful [L it is raised in power].

44 ·The body that is "planted" is a physical body [L It is sown/buried a natural/physical/soulish body]. ·When it is raised, it is [L It is raised] a spiritual body.

There is a ·physical [natural; soulish] body, and there is also a spiritual body.


45 [L So also] It is written in the Scriptures: "The first man, Adam, became a living ·person [soul; Gen. 2:7]." But the last Adam [C Christ] became a spirit that gives life. 46 [L But] The spiritual did not come first, but the ·physical [natural; soulish] and then the spiritual.

47 The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven.

 48 People who ·belong to the earth [or are of dust] are like the first man of ·earth [dust]. But those people who belong to heaven are like the man of heaven. 49 Just as we ·were made like [L have borne the image of] the man of earth, so we will[a] also ·be made like [bear the image of] the man of heaven.

50 I tell you this, brothers and sisters: Flesh and blood cannot ·have a part in [inherit] the kingdom of God. ·Something that will ruin cannot […nor can the perishable/corruptible] ·have a part in something that never ruins [inherit the imperishable/incorruptible].

 51 But look! I tell you ·this secret [a mystery; 2:1]: We will not all ·sleep in death [L sleep; C a euphemism for death], but we will all be changed. 52 It will ·take only a second [happen in a flash]—as quickly as an eye ·blinks [or twinkles]—when the last trumpet sounds. The trumpet will sound, and those who have died will be raised ·to live forever [imperishable; incorruptible], and we will be changed [1 Thess. 4:13–17].

53 [L For] This body that ·can be destroyed [is perishable/corruptible] must clothe itself with ·something that can never be destroyed [the imperishable/incorruptible]. And this ·body that dies [L mortal] must clothe itself with ·something that can never die [immortality].

 54 So when this body that ·can be destroyed [is perishable/corruptible] will clothe itself with that which ·can never be destroyed [is imperishable/incorruptible], and this ·body that dies [L mortal] will clothe itself with ·that which can never die [immortality], then this Scripture will ·be made true [come to pass]:


"Death is ·destroyed forever [L swallowed up] in victory [Is. 25:8]."
55 "[L O] Death, where is your victory?
    Death, where is your ·pain [L sting; Hos. 13:14]?"
56 Death's ·power to hurt [L sting] is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But we thank God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 So my ·dear [beloved] brothers and sisters, stand strong. Do not let anything move you. Always ·give yourselves fully to [excel in] the work of the Lord, because you know that your work in the Lord is ·never wasted [not useless/in vain].

I believe  what was planted in the corruptible  bodies   will rise  in Christ  , some believe its when you die literally  other say   its still way off      and some believe its when the old   man of sin is done away with in Christ     the newness of  life in Christ begins

2CORTH  3 But they were blinded in their understanding; for until today whenever the Old Testament is read, that veil remains over them, and it is not revealed that it is being abolished by The Messiah.
 

 
 I agree with WW the old is   how we will understand Revelations in " the Spirit of prophecy" in Jesus CHRIST  testimony /witness   
 
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