Recent Posts

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
1
Book of Revelation / Re: the "blood moons"..?
« Last post by Searching_For_The_Truth on Today at 03:39:10 AM »
I will wait until Nov. to ask you to explain your basis for believing such a thing :o)

I hope I am wrong about this but unfortunately it seems all the End Times pieces are falling into place. Especially with the Jade Helm 15 operation expected to take place this summer. Also, I read on CNN earlier that Assad's regime is in danger. If he falls, then ISIS will control about 85% of the Middle East.
2
Lounge / Re: OWLAM OLAM OLAWM
« Last post by Seth on Today at 03:25:55 AM »
I never said olam means eternal, infinite

I have repeatedly said it is defined in union with the subject it is attached to, sometimes meaning eternal(when attached to God), sometimes defining a brief period of years(a slaves indenture), sometimes meaning the distant past, sometimes the distant future, sometimes meaning world/age.

But never meaning infinite life. That's what would have bothered me as an ETer. You'd have to make the assumption that olam is attached to immortal life in order for it to mean eternal. But the Bible doesn't say "olam immortal life." To me it would have  sounded like you want it to mean eternal when attached to life but temporary when attached to punishment all based on how you interpret scripture. Nothing in "olam" inherently means "eternal." It's all based on how you interpret.

That would be a hard pill to swallow as someone who had once believed it always meant eternal apart from the need to interpret what it's attached to and now I have this element of uncertainty which actually is inherent in the word olam.


Quote
Indefinite futurity or indefintie antiquity are classic definitions in Thayer, Briggs-Driver and others.

Right. Indefinite life. If it becomes infinite, then it becomes defined. Indefinite means you don't know.

Quote
But someone would have to show me anywhere that olam means "visible".

I didn't say it meant visible.

 
3
Lounge / Re: OWLAM OLAM OLAWM
« Last post by Tom on Today at 03:24:03 AM »
Well, I'm just now getting a chance to check out the thread today guys, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm experiencing an eternal virus because it's starting to seem like it might last forever. I still think immortality and eonian life are two different things even though I think believers will begin to experience immortality during eonian life in the next couple of eons, but that's according to how I mostly see eonian life as what we're going to have in the future while unbelievers don't even though they will receive immortality at the end of eonian life. I know there's some variation of interpretation of eonian life, but it seems like only believers are promised it in scripture. I realize according to an alternative interpretation that believers are experiencing it now while unbelievers aren't, but I have a more literal interpretation. I don't think believers who have died experienced eonian life literally or immortality before they died, but I think they will receive both along with any believers who are alive when we're all snatched away and Christ meets us in the air. Then I think that immortality will continue from then on beyond the end of the eons which will be the end of the experience of eonian life. I think the thing about "olam" and "aion" is that they both indicate an indefinite finite period of time even though the end is not in view. I think the endless ages thing comes from pagan philosophy, but scripture indicates that there will be an end to the eons. I think some folks might get a little worried about what's going to be happening after that, but I just trust God because I think it's going to be amazing for everybody to be filled with the love of God without any evil or death messing with us.
4
Lounge / Re: OWLAM OLAM OLAWM
« Last post by eaglesway on Today at 03:13:37 AM »
I never said olam means eternal, infinite

I have repeatedly said it is defined in union with the subject it is attached to, sometimes meaning eternal(when attached to God), sometimes defining a brief period of years(a slaves indenture), sometimes meaning the distant past, sometimes the distant future, sometimes meaning world/age. Indefinite futurity or indefintie antiquity are classic definitions in Thayer, Briggs-Driver and others.

But someone would have to show me anywhere that olam means "visible". It refers to the horizon in its etymology, yes- but all resources I have read say it is the horizon and beyond."Beyond view" is a true definition of olam.  A cursory examination of the 438 usages of olam in the OT bears that out, just from context, imo.

Also, I think I could at least say with confidence that immortality is a major element of aionian zoe- always accompanying it, at the very least :o)
5
Lounge / Re: OWLAM OLAM OLAWM
« Last post by Seth on Today at 01:36:28 AM »
Well, I respect your opinion, but it's not clear to me that aionios zoe is immortality. I think it's clear to me that it's the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And I disagree that olam means endless, or infinite. I think it means to the visible horizon, and that as Marie said l'olam va'ed means to the horizon and beyond. I don't believe that such a viewpoint puts the promise of immortality at risk in any way. Just my opinion.


6
Book of Revelation / Re: the "blood moons"..?
« Last post by eaglesway on Today at 01:36:13 AM »
I will wait until Nov. to ask you to explain your basis for believing such a thing :o)
7
Judgement and Punishment / Re: what happens when you die?
« Last post by eaglesway on Today at 01:33:06 AM »

The efficacy of Christ's sacrifice is not limited by time - and was already in effect from the foundation of the world - it is only limited in man's mind by his thinking - man's thinking which seeks to limit the Lord God of all to man's own time, space and causation.


I've always wondered if Moses and Elijah when seen at Jesus' transfiguration, if they came (in) from beyond time.. :smile: ..so both pre and post the resurrections :mrflo:

Not at all an unreasonable theory or hypothysis. In fact, I think it quite likely, certainly possible.
8
Lounge / Re: OWLAM OLAM OLAWM
« Last post by eaglesway on Today at 01:31:09 AM »
There are many arguments proving UR. It isnt really that obscure, it is just veiled by broken systems of theology. However, Matthew 25 is a problem for many folks. I find that understanding "olam" is one of several wonderful ways of demonstrating the truth in that context. I was not attempting to make it like some "cure all" or "the most important thing" either, lol

But after all, the thread OP was about the meaning of "olam", and it would be just as big an error to undervalue the importance of understanding the relationship between "olam" and "aion/aionian". Olam "only" occurs 438 times in the OT- it is an important word in the UR paradigm- just as important as understanding aion, sheol, gehenna, pas or any of the other words that must be properly translated in order to fully understand the truth of the restoration of all things. :o)

It is clear that "aionian zoe" is immortality. Therefore, whenever someone "believes" they begin to experience aionian zoe. So in 1 Cor 15, we see that eventually all will receive aionian zoe- each in his own order. So all will eventually be immortal. In Phil 2 :9-11 we see that eventually all will believe. How can the eternal God be all in all and death be abolished unless all become immortal at some point.

As in Adam all died so also in Christ sahall al be made alive, but each in his own order. That order will be fulfilled though the completion of the ages, "an administration suitable to the fulness of times".

Different aspects of the truth make the most initial impact on different people, but every one of these aspects are weapons in the arsenal of a warrior of truth.

 "Our weapons are not carnal, but mighty through God for the pulling down of every stronghold and fortress, that exalts itself against the true knowledge of God"
9
Christian Life / Re: I still go to church, do you?
« Last post by lastpost on May 03, 2015, 11:45:42 PM »
Dear friends,

I know some have had bad experiences in churches and may not thank me for the following (although our peaceful sanctuary is unlike most churches I believe you refer to).

On the first Sunday of the month our very small gathering shares bread and blackcurrant juice in remembrance of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is never forced on anyone, it cannot be. But I truly believe that a special blessing and connection with the Heart of the compassionate Christ always occurs, for it is a law of Love.

Tonight, I felt the very real Presence of the Master Christ, I also saw Him inside my mind when my eyes were closed. Oh dear people, how can anyone describe the Divine Beauty of the Christ in the flesh, it cannot be done, but it is no wonder that those early ones loved Him with a love that carried them through the hardest and most treacherous times.

As I have spent quite a bit of time here lately, I also felt that some of you were 'there' in spirit - or perhaps I was 'here' in spirit, space makes no difference to emancipated spirits.

God is indeed Love, and when He is seen, it is an education in itself concerning the God whom is adored by myriads of angels glorifying His Name with the deepest reverence.

+
10
Judgement and Punishment / Re: what happens when you die?
« Last post by lastpost on May 03, 2015, 11:23:56 PM »
I believe it is also harmful to be anticipating catastrophe
:iagree: When I grew up, I always was anticipating a catastrophe

Dear Abigail,

I wonder if I might give an opinion about a subtle point concerning anticipating or foretelling the calamities, the tribulations and the catastrophes:

The mind of the body needs to grasp what happens as a consequence of these things, and that is the linking up a person with the One - the only One - who when the time comes, is able to provide the help. It helps in a measure the release of the Divine within, a degree of emancipation from the stranglehold that the lesser self has on the spirit.

From the spiritual viewpoint, focussing on foretelling the coming of trouble itself: this concentrates the mind of the body on these things and therefore it weakens the individual instead of strengthening, because the focus is on the fear of the shadows rather than on grasping the underlying shaking free of the spirit from the suffocation of the baser self bound to the world.
 
Wisdom concerns the things which are of God. Concentrating on plagues, famines, storms and earthquakes is concentrating on knowledge of the things of the earth. Probing beneath the surface of earthly things is revealing earthly knowledge - and only in a measure at that - however it is not revealing wisdom, and wisdom is of God - and as we love the Master Jesus, we should always keep our thoughts on the highest and best.

I hope this subtle point has been brought out.

Finally, amongst all the trouble going on at this moment, may we prayerfully think of those left behind who have lost loved ones in the devastation of the recent Nepalese disaster. Thank you so much.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10