If there is a difference between will and choice, they are nevertheless entirely dependent on one another.I totally agree with this. Everyone has a will, a capacity to make choices.
If you have no will, it is not a choice. If you choose, your will is involved. If your will is not involved, you did not choose, another chose for you.
And from an earlier post; "Pre-planning is a different issue from predetermination. Predetermination simply means that everything you do will happen as God knows it, and therefore no choice you make is free from such foreknowledge of God. It must happen as he already knows it will."
"Here is my point: Just because scriptures urge people to grow in the faith, at the end of the day God is still in charge of who grows into the likeness of Christ. Romans 8:29 proves this. It happens according to the foreknowledge and predestination of God
. All the admonitions of the Gospel to grow, are just as part of God's ultimate plan as the admonition to Rehoboam to treat Israel fairly. It doesn't mean that God isn't still predetermining the growth of his elect.
That's what makes them elect."
Just getting back to this Seth!
In looking at the word "predetermination" that we used, you explained that it was God's foreknowledge of all events, but the in the later statement; "...doesn't mean that God isn't still predetermining...".
I used the word pre-planning, from which you said differed from predetermination; and I can except that definition as you gave it. But then you used the word predetermining, which to me, and it appears that way within the context of that particular sentence, that it is an action of for-thought in pre-planning. So the confusion is this; is predetermination simply foreknowledge, or is it pre-planning?
In reference to those He foreknew He did predestinate, I think the word predetermine means the same thing as predestinate, which to me would mean pre-planned.
As we discussed earlier, does God allow free will or is everything already written and we are just following script? My heart tells me that there is God's overall will, which will be done, but within His will, we are allowed our own free will within the parameters he has given us; as I have stated before. To just be following script, that every single thing has already been planned, to me is suffocating and puts my mind in bondage, and at this time, I cannot except that.
Anyway, this whole thread, which just started out as a realization of the Peace we have in Christ, knowing that our salvation is in His hands, and to take comfort and rest in that, as most threads do, took on a whole life of itself!
God may not be the author of confusion, but the reader sure can be confused!