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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by micah7:9 on Today at 01:34:25 AM »
Isn't that after the aggression? Hindsight.....  and hindsight is revealed after the fact. We all have hindsight and a good many times it is oops.... and from that learning, unless I have misunderstood you. :2c:
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by dajomaco on July 29, 2014, 09:55:08 PM »
I believe we do not have free will to cause an event.
The event was caused by the hand of God .

I believe we have free will to name the event.
How we categorise the event in our hearts and mind is area of free will. 
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by saintwalee on July 29, 2014, 07:35:02 PM »
Hi SW, I meant that God is preplanning the growth of the elect. I didn't mean that God has preplanned everything. As I had said earlier, God does not tempt man to sin. I was making the difference clear about that. At the very LEAST, all is predetermined.

But specifically in regard to the growth of the elect, yes that is according to Gods preplanning.

 :gimmefive: I am understanding your point now, thanks.
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by Seth on July 29, 2014, 06:57:38 PM »
I agree.  :thumbsup:

See, I want to make a distinction here. I don't believe God is literally forcing people to sin. I think man already wants to sin, and God uses even the evil choices in his ultimate plans.

God did not tempt Jesus to sin. But the Bible says that the Spirit led him to a place to be tempted of the devil. Again, all toward his plan, and Christ's success was predetermined.
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by micah7:9 on July 29, 2014, 04:54:53 PM »
Hi SW, I meant that God is preplanning the growth of the elect. I didn't mean that God has preplanned everything. As I had said earlier, God does not tempt man to sin. I was making the difference clear about that. At the very LEAST, all is predetermined.

But specifically in regard to the growth of the elect, yes that is according to Gods preplanning.

No God does not tempt man to sin, absolutely not, but God does cause the situation where man has to make a choice, to do good or to not.
Jas 1:14  but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
Eph 2:3  among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest: -  :Peace2: :2c:
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#588 About Dr. Joseph Priestly, Thomas Whittimore writes in THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM

"He believed that God's punishment will not be administered with the slightest tincture of revenge, but as a necessary means of qualifying the sinner for a better state of existence, which his present propensities disqualify him from enjoying. It is not the effect of anger in an irritated and avenging tyrant as the abominable tenets of orthodoxy would induce us to think of the Deity, but it is the medicine administered for our good by the Physician of our souls. Nor have we any reason to believe that it is greater in degree, or longer in duration than is necessary to produce the beneficial effect for which it is inflicted.

It was a constant source of great consolation to him that all things exist and move on harmoniously to produce universal good by Divine appointment and direction."
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Dietary advice in Daniel (?)



Daniel 1:12-15New International Version (NIV)

12 "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." 14 So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days.

15 At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+1:12-15
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by Searching_For_The_Truth on July 29, 2014, 07:32:11 AM »
I firmly believe that God's free will is far greater than our free will. If he desires for all to be saved, he will do so. If not, he won't do so. I would suggest reading "Hope Beyond Hell" on the tentmaker website. It makes a great case in regards to how our "free will" isn't as strong as we think it is and how God's free will is greater than our free will. It is backed up by scriptures as well.
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by Seth on July 29, 2014, 07:11:42 AM »
Hi SW, I meant that God is preplanning the growth of the elect. I didn't mean that God has preplanned everything. As I had said earlier, God does not tempt man to sin. I was making the difference clear about that. At the very LEAST, all is predetermined.

But specifically in regard to the growth of the elect, yes that is according to Gods preplanning.
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Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: God's Will
« Last post by saintwalee on July 29, 2014, 07:02:30 AM »
If there is a difference between will and choice, they are nevertheless entirely dependent on one another.
 If you have no will, it is not a choice. If you choose, your will is involved. If your will is not involved, you did not choose, another chose for you.
I totally agree with this. Everyone has a will, a capacity to make choices.  :thumbsup:

And from an earlier post; "Pre-planning is a different issue from predetermination. Predetermination simply means that everything you do will happen as God knows it, and therefore no choice you make is free from such foreknowledge of God. It must happen as he already knows it will."
 and

"Here is my point: Just because scriptures urge people to grow in the faith, at the end of the day God is still in charge of who grows into the likeness of Christ. Romans 8:29 proves this. It happens according to the foreknowledge and predestination of God. All the admonitions of the Gospel to grow, are just as part of God's ultimate plan as the admonition to Rehoboam to treat Israel fairly. It doesn't mean that God isn't still predetermining the growth of his elect. That's what makes them elect."

Just getting back to this Seth!

In looking at the word "predetermination" that we used, you explained that it was God's foreknowledge of all events, but the in the later statement; "...doesn't mean that God isn't still predetermining...".

I used the word pre-planning, from which you said differed from predetermination; and I can except that definition as you gave it. But then you used the word predetermining, which to me, and it appears that way within the context of that particular sentence, that it is an action of for-thought in pre-planning. So the confusion is this; is predetermination simply foreknowledge, or is it pre-planning?

In reference to those He foreknew He did predestinate, I think the word predetermine means the same thing as predestinate, which to me would mean pre-planned.

As we discussed earlier, does God allow free will or is everything already written and we are just following script? My heart tells me that there is God's overall will, which will be done, but within His will, we are allowed our own free will within the parameters he has given us; as I have stated before. To just be following script, that every single thing has already been planned, to me is suffocating and puts my mind in bondage, and at this time, I cannot except that.

Anyway, this whole thread, which just started out as a realization of the Peace we have in Christ, knowing that our salvation is in His hands, and to take comfort and rest in that, as most threads do, took on a whole life of itself!

God may not be the author of confusion, but the reader sure can be confused!
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