Author Topic: why are there topics that arnt allowed to be discussed here?  (Read 3940 times)

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blackwings

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ive been here only a short time and have already run into 2 instances where topics were considered risque or 'not permitted' - one had to do with 'what the cross means' and the other had to with 'God being the ruler of this world'

this seems like a complete contradiction to what jesus taught -what is there to fear, if our own beliefs are in order?

imo, this leads down the slippery slope to orthodoxy, and intolerance

help me understand, if you folks dont mind

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Re: why are there topics that arnt allowed to be discussed here?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2008, 11:27:11 PM »
I have drafted a reply but I think Martin should answer this - temporary lock

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jabcat

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Re: why are there topics that arnt allowed to be discussed here?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2008, 07:05:11 AM »
Hi Blackwings.  I've been asked by Martin to reply to this, with certain guidelines he has given me that I will cover.  As I'm not sure how you were notified of the concerns, I'll take it at face value that somehow you got the idea certain points of discussion were being discouraged.  Brief history; following a time on TM of apparently many discussions wandering away from the focus the site owner Gary Amirault preferred, he recently set down some guidelines wrt discussions on the boards.  Basically, to directly address your questions, he has instructed there be no textual criticism of scripture, and that topics be UR related. Several boards were apparently removed to more readily fulfill these requirements, as well as some of the most recent statements having been passed along from him as being along the lines that he wants TM to be a site that teaches the fundamentals of UR, perhaps mainly for those just coming into the revelation.

As far as the "slippery slope of orthodoxy", the "fear factor", etc., I can be corrected about this by Gary and/or Martin if need be;  but my interpretation of the the information I have received from Gary is not that he necessarily doesn't want any "deep things" discussed, but that he requires a respect for scripture in any discussions that are on the boards; so that in and of itself addresses the textual criticism issue, as well as again, things need to be UR related.  IMO, there is actually a lot of room to discuss many things within those parameters.

Feel free to discuss things on your heart that are directly related to God's revelation of UR to you, your walk with Him as relates to UR, etc., within the guidelines we've been given.

God's blessing, James.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 07:16:45 AM by jabcat »

blackwings

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Re: why are there topics that arnt allowed to be discussed here?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 06:43:56 AM »
for someone who is relatively new to universalism this seems to be contradictory, but, hey it isnt my site

there are things i dont understand, like, the adverse feelings about the trinity, the true meaning and necessity of the cross, the existence (or definition) of Hell, etc etc

if these things are subjects that arnt tolerated here, i have to ask myself what im doing here? - could there be a consideration for there to be a seperate section for these sensitive subjects

also, while i appreciate how 'christ-centered' tentmaker is, there seems to be ZERO room for those of other faiths - if i were a jew, or a muslim, or hindu, i would not feel very welcome here

im not expecting you guys to drop everything and address these issues, just something you might want to consider if we ALL are going to be reconciled to God

good day

martincisneros

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Re: why are there topics that arnt allowed to be discussed here?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 07:35:25 AM »
I'm praying that this resolves the matter rather than redirects an argument, if it's even remotely possible within the framework of God's gift to me and through me.  I'm for multifaceted dialogue like the next person, but I don't really care to get into a bunch of Church history on the Trinity, the debate over it in recent centuries since Miguel Servetus, etc., that at the end of the day is more of what we had before and is not only not productive about UR discussion but may polarize people again as some Universalists are Trinitarian, while others aren't.

I don't see how staying with the mission for the boards is counterproductive to people of other religions coming to faith in Christ in a way that foresees all of Creation being re-headed through Jesus Christ.   Arminians and Calvinists take it or leave it as far as those EXTRA demensions of apologetics, depending upon the particular calling of their lives, their equipping from the Lord, and most especially based upon what's most fruitful in their lives.  I don't see why Universalists of all Christian groups are the most obliged to either remove the focus or to liberalize the message away from a focus on Jesus Christ and the veracity of the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments.  We simply have a focus that we're maintaining.  We tried having twice the number of boards that we now have, and it didn't work.  It was counterproductive.  It bore little more than strife for fruit and it wounded many consciences.  So, we've streamlined down for the time being.

Jesus Christ is the center rather than Church history as it relates to other topics, or trying to prove every other group wrong about a million other theological opinions.  Some Universalists believe in afterlife punishments for the balance of this age and for the next age for a great many offenders, while others believe in a total cessation of life until the resurrection, while some believe that whenever everyone dies, irrespective of their creed in this life that they're immediately facing a confrontation with Jesus Christ and an immediate renunciation of all that's not fit for eternal glory from their previous lives.  We're not here to establish which position is more correct than the others until the Lord has provided much greater light of the Scriptures that isn't based upon human reasoning but upon His infallible Word.  We're here to encourage everyone to study deeper, to weigh and consider regarding any insights that are presented as to HOW Jesus Christ will FILL God's House, and to go from here and bring about Creation's restoration from condemnation and the dark age madness of seeing a great gulf still fixed between man and God that Jesus Christ has bridged.

We all err in many things, but this isn't the place where everybody's dirty laundry will be aired out and where anyone will find condemnation.  We're simply here to love one another, encourage one another to love and good works, and to help people that are starting to perceive the message of the Universal Restoration in the Scriptures.  Love emerging from the finished work of Jesus Christ is the goal of everything here, and pointing people to the finished work of Jesus Christ where all of Creation is concerned is paramount.

Christian Universalism isn't about validating every other religion, but it's the declaration that Jesus Christ is strong enough to spoil every religion of it's captives and to bring them away from all of those philosophies to embrace His Way Alone (Colossians 2; 2Corinthians 10).



The only thing that I added with this edit is in blue.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 11:31:26 PM by martincisneros »

martincisneros

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Re: why are there topics that arnt allowed to be discussed here?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2008, 03:33:07 AM »
I've made a judgment call about locking this thread at this point.  Basically, outlined here in this thread is the reasoning behind why any threads wind up getting locked after a certain point and/or if there's outright discouragement of a topic being discussed here that questions the veracity of Scripture.  "Why" questions on the one hand would be more faithful to the new direction of these boards rather than "I don't think it's really the way that the Bible says it" type of speculations.  Our basis for discussion is the Old and New Testaments of the Holy Bible and not speculations that wander out beyond the Bible and the topic of the Universal Restoration.  No particular translation is being officially endorsed, although Tentmaker does hope to have a new translation out shortly. 

The swift changes that have occured here recently are more about reestablishing a respect for Scripture and remaining UR related.  I've never, personally, known Gary Amirault to hold unyeildingly to the "inerrancy" doctrine.  But the reliability and trustworthiness of how the Bible describes what it took to secure our redemption is different from minor textual variations in the ancient, most reliable manuscripts of the Old and New Testaments in the original Hebrew and Greek languages of our Bibles.

We allowed a virtual free-for-all on ideas at these boards for quite a while, and now it's time to come back to the centrality of Jesus Christ and Him crucified regarding our redemption.  Anytime I lock a thread, I'll try to remember to post a link back to this thread that outlines, briefly, our goals at these boards.  Hopefully those instances will be really really rare.