Author Topic: Who are the wicked?  (Read 541 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Average_Bear

  • Guest
Who are the wicked?
« on: January 13, 2008, 01:51:45 AM »
After over 20 years of being a Christian, I recently reevaluated my beliefs about many topics including hell, free will, and UR. One thing I noticed when studying about hell is that even if you insist there is one, the evidence suggest that its victims are there because of their evil deeds (or lack of good deeds) rather than lack of faith, lack of grace, or failing to accept Jesus as Savior. Is there anything in the Bible that tells us that unbelievers are also doomed? Or is this just by some fancy theological algebra that today's standard bearers of truth assume that unbelievers are included? Another way to put is this: who are the wicked? What is the definition of wickedness? And what about normal people? Is there any room in the Bible for people who are neither hopelessly evil, nor terribly righteous?
When I read the Sheep and Goats parable, I asked myself - Am I a sheep or a goat? Could I be half sheep and half goat? I mean, I have done some things like the sheep (for example, we opened our home to foster kids in the past), but I don't make a lifestyle out of helping the needy. And certainly many unbelievers do far more than believers in this regard.  :dontknow:

Offline 97531

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 2280
  • Gender: Male
  • Truth is Freedom
    • Father's Love Forum
Re: Who are the wicked?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 05:00:26 PM »
A simple sound-byte answer:

The religious.

Blessings
My Blog       Father's Love Forum - New
IHWLAMAHOB
Christian Milkshake: Pressed down, shaken together and more than we can hope for

Offline Redlettervoice

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 790
Re: Who are the wicked?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2008, 05:22:27 PM »
A simple sound-byte answer:

The religious.

Blessings

I agree,
Seeker!~ Mystery of INIQUITY has to do with "religious."
Many people when they hear the "word" RELIGIOUS, think of Christians, but LOVE has to
replace our "religion" ........and sometimes I think we can all identify with Nebuchadnezzar
who had to have his thinking put straight........

jabcat

  • Guest
Re: Who are the wicked?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 09:11:41 AM »
It seems to me scriptures teach the "wicked" are the ones who have not as yet been given regenerative faith, and that would be all of us without the righteousness of Jesus cloaking those that are believing.  However, I wonder if  all of us, or at least those of us who may not be in the group of Manifest Sons, will still have our works burned so that we may saved as through fire and so be presented "spotless and without blame".  Still thinking and learning about the LoF..I know some think it's here and now, while others believe it is later and will cleanse us all...scripture says there's none righteous...is that the same as "wicked"? :dontknow:  I do believe if any of us aren't wicked, it's only through the blood of Christ being imputed to us.

Offline 97531

  • Restricted
  • *
  • Posts: 2280
  • Gender: Male
  • Truth is Freedom
    • Father's Love Forum
Re: Who are the wicked?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2008, 12:23:50 PM »
Hi Jabcat

The wicked are generally seen as those outside and just like the Jews in Jesus' day there were the outcasts, the sinners, the sick et al. put away by the definition of the religious of the day.  Where did Jesus hang out?  It was with these folk.  They were the victims of the system.  Jesus opposed the system and turned it on its head everytime it was thrown in His face.

Tradition wants us to see a separation of sanctified unsanctified.  There is no us and them, it is just us, believer unbeliever alike.  God causes it to rain on the Just and the Unjust.  He is no respecter of persons.

This is why I said the religious are wicked, they are the ones judging according to the flesh and directly opposes how God sees us.  The religious will harp on your weaknesses and convince you that you are wretched, see the trap?  Then you fall into a bottomless pit of trying to fixit by your own abilities.

Any code of conduct, somewhere we will break it.  Like an employment contract that forbids stealing, a simple pencil taken home for the kids, breaks that rule and just as another may embezzle or do fraudulent business, both deserve termination of employment and prosecution.  The punishment will fit the crime but both are equally guilty of breaking the fundamental rule, not to steal.

It is interesting that most government law states you are innocent until proven guilty, Christianity tends to say you are guilty, even before you were born.  The truth is God forgives us first and because of this we repent, not because we repent that we receive forgiveness.

Read Matthew 23 and you tell me who you think Jesus saw as wicked?

Blessings
My Blog       Father's Love Forum - New
IHWLAMAHOB
Christian Milkshake: Pressed down, shaken together and more than we can hope for

jabcat

  • Guest
Re: Who are the wicked?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 12:01:28 AM »
Thanks for your answer and for the spirit of your reply, SA.  It seems obvious in Matt. 23 the wicked are the religious as you say, or at least the religious leaders.  I would like to think on this some more though, in that I wonder if the category of wicked may also be inclusive of others as well, i.e., have an even broader application.  You mention the "all of us, no us/them"...coming out of orthodoxy I'm beginning to see the implications of that, but still not settled on exactly how the "all" works wrt salvation/when/where/how...I have to hang onto the blood of Jesus purchasing and cleansing us, just sorting through some things about, for lack of a better word, the timing and extent of regeneration...may start a new thread tonight on this with some of my thoughts..thanks again.  God's blessing.

jabcat

  • Guest
Re: Who are the wicked?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 02:25:01 AM »
I guess I'm sort of thinking out loud, searching for clarification in my own mind and probably others can help.  By the "blood of Jesus" statement in my last post, I think what I'm trying to get at is that I believe there's a point for each of us, now or later, when belief is given/regeneration begins, a definite moment...the "personally saved" part of salvation..hasn't it been given to all, but each of us have an individual moment of "behold I stand at the door...hear My voice, open the door"/"whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved", to name a few?  That may explain my earlier response to "who are the wicked" wrt those not as yet having been given faith and in which God's personal/individualized work has not yet been revealed/initiated...I'm not sure, just sorting things through and open to, even requesting, input.  God's blessing. 
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 02:26:44 AM by jabcat »