Tithing - Split from Banned from Forum

[Kept]

Wow some churches can be so cold and stoney hearted. Im sure some day when all this is wrapped up we will be able by the grace and love of God to laugh at all this stuff but for now it can sting for sure.

The tithing or you are under a curse thing, oh I hate that one and its children too, if you arent at every service you should not call for any counciling or help. We left a church, resigned when we took a young couple that had just had a baby that had major health problems and all their money was going towards bills. They were about to get their electricity cut off and the church was a good sized one too and yet when we went to the pastor of the church and asked for the funds to help this family. We were told to give them the videos on finances as obviously they werent tithing and managing their money properly! That was the last straw for me. I was furious.

we men have sure made a mess of things havent we
kept

[Seeker]

Kept,

The last straw for me was when the "leaders" of the church were called into a "leadership" meeting that was supposed to be a teaching about how to better serve others in the church.  Instead they handed us all contracts and told us we were REQUIRED to donate to the church tile fund in addition to our tithe.  We were told that anyone who did not do this would be kicked out of leadership.  One woman began to cry and said she could barely pay her bills and wondered if it'd be ok to pledge only 1/2 a tile.  The pastor coldly told her not to give what she could afford and to "trust god" to take care of the rest.  He ignored her sobs the rest of the meeting.

2 months later I was invited to breakfast to be "thanked" for pledging above my tithe. 
The letter said we would be updated on the church building project.  We were shown 1 picture and given a piece of cake.  The rest of the meeting we were handed a list and asked to write down the names and phone numbers of any and every person we knew the church could call on our behalf to ask for donations.  We were told that this was a way to be obedient and serve God.  I walked out and threw the paper away.

Sorry to get off topic, but you are right...we've missed the boat.  I've been pretty angry since and not right with God if you want to know the truth of it.

 

-SeekerRuth

[Kept]

Oh Wow Seeker that is really ugly.

Im glad you are out now. Its hard not to be angry at what we see. I hate religion with a passion but I do remember when I was just as religious and just as blind to what I was doing.

For that matter I could be blind as a bat right now to something and not even know it.
God has brought me a long ways but Im sure Ive got a looooong ways to go.

kept

[shibboleth]

I used to take the bus to an Orthodox Presbyterian Church on Sunday. One day I met a woman who was a lovely Christian, who wasn't attending church. I invited her to my church and she came.

In time we became friends and I was invited to her home. It was more like a shack to tell you the truth. It was tiny and run down. She told me her roof had started to leak and she went up there to put on tarpaper, but it still leaked. I felt for her and called my preacher to see if we could help her. He asked me all kinds of questions. Was she Christian? Why didn't she go to church? Would she be able to pay us to help her?

I was angry because even though we were a small congregation, we had helped a man and his family with all kinds of repairs to his home and he wasn't a member of our church either. I decided that all the talk about Christian love and charity was just a lot of BS. For this church anyway.

I told my daughter, Janis, about it and her church, Calvary Chapel, gave the woman $250.00 in gift certificates to buy food and such for the holidays. They weren't able to help her with her roof, but they did help her with her food so she could hopefully save enough to get her roof repaired.

It was a real lesson to me that the priorities of many churches is only in being proper and not getting our hands dirty to help those in need. But, it showed me that there are church people who do are willing to give to the poor, orphan and widowed.

[Joian]

Been on both sides of this issue........been helped when I was poor and a part of those who helped as teams that went out when I was able to give...........but recently I read and article that settled some things for me.  It is called "And they will make merchandise of you"..........Whew, I had some repenting to do after I read and reread this...these men still believe in ET, yet their words brought such life and light..... here is an excerpt and the link to the whole article.  Be blessed,

Joian


So Where Is the Church Heading Today?

In a recent publication of Forbes magazine entitled "Christian Capitalism, Megachurches, Megabusinesses," 1 author Luisa Kroll wrote, "Maybe churches aren't so different from corporations." After that she listed a number of the Megachurches of today, noting the similarities between them and corporate America. "Welcome to the megabusiness of megachurches" writes Kroll, "where pastors often act as chief executives and use business tactics to grow their congregations. This entrepreneurial approach has contributed to the explosive growth of megachurches."

It should not surprise us when a publication such as Forbes recognizes megachurches as big business. That is exactly what they are and who better to confirm this fact than Forbes, the nation's premier business magazine? As we read on in this article, it became apparent that what we thought at first was a scalding expose was in fact a commendation, praising churches for finally coming around and doing things the right way. Kroll went on to show how helping churches grow has also become big business. In fact, there is one company called Kingdom Ventures that does nothing but "help smaller churches become big with technology." Their new book entitled PastorPreneur, which teaches pastors to think like entrepreneurs, is soon coming to bookstores near you.

Anyone who has ever had a relationship with the living Christ must ask, "Since when has Jesus become dependent on world business methods and technology to promote the gospel of the kingdom and grow His Church?" Is this the rock He told Peter that He would build His church on--common business practices? Where once the Lord added to the Church daily as many as should be saved, now we see a church growing itself by appealing to the world's sense of taste. Where once the Spirit of God drew people, now people are enticed with sensationalism and entertainment. Such grand productions and the advertising to promote them cost big bucks. Enter PastorPreneur, the best pastor money can buy, who will more than balance the bottom line.

On a web site entitled Outreach Marketing, we were introduced to a new church growth concept called "Outreach Comedy." We see the future of Christian evangelism in an article entitled "Outreach Comedy Puts A New (Smiling) Face On Christian Events." We quote:

"Outreach Comedy offers a fresh and culturally relevant solution to reach a diverse audience with the message of Christ. Comedy events not only provide a fun and 'invite-able' event, but one that people will want to bring their unbelieving friends to. Outreach Comedy General Manager, Dionne Petitpas, states, "Outreach Comedy equips leaders to both reach the unchurched as well as edify believers in a unique and enjoyable way - by providing a host of top-quality, hilarious performers with an effective Christ-honoring message." 

Gone is the appeal of Jesus to deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Him. Gone is the gospel of His Father's kingdom that turned the world upside down. Now we see a Church that has been turned upside down by the world and its practices, that no longer needs the power of the Holy Spirit. How did the early Church ever make it without "a host of top-quality, hilarious performers with an effective Christ-honoring message"? Have we fallen so far that we prefer a form of godliness without the power of God? Has it become acceptable to resort to the methods of the world because we have lost the power of heaven?



http://awildernessvoice.com/Merchandise.html

[Kept]

Absolutely seeing this as we speak in our city.

Its very ugly, just recently I had to get up and walk out of a meeting I was in or I would have gotten sick right there on the spot

church is big buisness, no denying that

kept

[martincisneros]

The tithing or you are under a curse thing, oh I hate that one and its children too, if you arent at every service you should not call for any counciling or help.... We were told to give them the videos on finances as obviously they werent tithing and managing their money properly! That was the last straw for me. I was furious.

we men have sure made a mess of things havent we
kept

I personally believe in tithing and the Biblical covenants (covenants in the plural) for obtaining wealth, sowing and reaping, etc., but Jesus in Matthew's Gospel, Paul throughout his letters, James in his epistle, and John in 1John all taught the meeting of urgent needs and to not allow your love to simply become lip service.  Maybe one of these days I'll do a good CD on this where I'll teach those things for about 35 to 45 minutes and then devote another 30+ minutes to Jesus' comments about "justice, mercy, and faithfulness being the weightier matters - these you ought to have performed FIRST without neglecting the former" so that you'd eventually be able to mail them that CD if I ever get 'er done.  I don't have the best resources right now for producing a CD like that though - although, one thing that I want to look into is whether or not I can use my computer that I'm currently not able to get online with and a new microphone to make CDs and if I could get by on a quality CD with that. 

Ever had a moment at the Tentmaker boards where you just suddenly wanted to slap your forehead because it was such a "duh!!!" moment?  Excuse me, while I go ask the Lord for wisdom about the right microphone and how to go about getting one, and if this would be a temporary solution to my current non-CD-producing status.

[Hennessey]

Joian, that writing from which you quoted is by far the best I have ever read on the mixture of money and the gospel. I don't believe the authors see "all men saved" yet but I believe they have their finger on God's pulse with regard to this subject. I have been sharing parts of "They Will Make Merchandise of You" with some believers here in town that have been hurt by their churches in this area.

The section entitled," The Attitude of the Apostles and Early Believers Toward Money" is so powerful that I wish everyone could read at least that part.

http://awildernessvoice.com/Merchandise.html

I thank you for recommending this writing to me and I do still give the first fruits of my blessings to help others. We may not share all things in common like the early church, but I see this as being a part.



Jack 

[97531]

Some good posts here, let me share a few thought too.

Sowing and reaping is a biblical principal but IMO this truth has been perverted in ways that relate only to money and have come under the teaching that you should name your seed/harvest.

God does not need your money, period.

When one gets into the idea that by giving you are doing God a favor and doing the proverbial testing in Malachi, we miss the principal completely.  I have seen many UR debates on this and it is as if because tithing old covenant style is no longer a "law" that we give no more.  This is where I believe we err.

If by sowing and reaping, we are only able to measure the harvest financially, IMO we then serve mammon, I have been guilty of this purely due to incorrect teaching and wrong interpretation of the word.

There are so many areas of God's kingdom where one can sow finances into good productive soil but the secret is.

Don't give with a Hook

Obedience is better than sacrifice the word says and this is far better than baiting God.  He knows the intent of our hearts, and if baited, He simply will not bite, and I have had really big worms on my hooks in the past so I know this does not work.

Like everything, one must be led by the Holy Spirit where to sow and what to sow.

This just came up in my spirit.

Hos 8:7  For they sow the wind, and they reap the whirlwind. It has no stalk; the bud shall yield no meal; if it does yield, strangers shall swallow it up.

Sorry all, it's Sunday and I find myself in "[sermon mode]" again.

The word is very clear on Giving and Receiving in that Jesus said it is more blessed to give than to receive.  In my experience, in the past when we (my wife and I) helped those less fortunate with giving food, clothing and many other things, the blessing was in the giving.  Years later we found ourselves in a tight spot and started wondering about the receiving bit hence our apparent need and even those we helped seemed to turn their backs on us.  Point is, when that comes up, we need to rebuke it as that then turns the blessing into a curse.  Will I stop helping people, No i will not.  This bit comes to me now.

Mat 25:34-40  Then the King shall say to those on His right hand, Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35  For I was hungry, and you gave me food; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you took Me in; 36  I was naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me. 37  Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, and fed You? Or thirsty, and gave You drink? 38  When did we see You a stranger, and took You in? Or naked, and clothed You? 39  Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and came to You? 40  And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you have done it to Me.

Yes to many this appears as good works but it can also be seen in the light of sowing, notice when the harvest/blessing takes place.  It can be seen as a hereafter in the traditional sense but also means the here and now. This next part aligns with this too.

Mat 6:19  Do not lay up treasures on earth for yourselves, where moth and rust corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal. 20  But lay up treasures in Heaven for yourselves, where neither moth nor rust corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. 21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

So by sowing finances to support the work of God or sowing Love and assistance to others, we are about our Father's business in this temporal kingdom and our treasure is knowing, no one can deny the fact we did not reach out and share God's love, maybe not in words but in kind.

I would like to think, those I have helped although it appears on the surface that they do not appreciate it, later in life, they too may remember our generosity and likewise do the same for others.  Like it says, "Love covers a multitude of sins"

Meeting the physical needs of people sometimes leaves a more lasting impression that vain empty words.

[/sermon mode]

May the love of God richly infill you to be a cup that runneth over with His love and His mercy.

Blessings in Christ

[Joian]

Let the Whole Tithe Come in!
Christine Beadsworth

Fresh Oil Releases
Let the Whole Tithe Come In
 
No doubt what I have to say here will be highly controversial, yet I
am pressed to share it. We are living in the 3rd Day and the
threefold things must be brought to light. We are also in the 7th
Day and the people of God must be brought to a place of rest from
their fleshly labors, that they may work the works of God. The
Church of Jesus Christ has long been held at gunpoint concerning the
subject of tithing and it is my personal opinion that this has
contributed in great measure to the inability of the Church to move
fully out of religion and into the full light of the Son of
Righteousness. It is time to move from operating in an earthly
John-the- Baptist mindset concerning the tithe and to be seated in a
heavenly revelation of what God intended the tithe to portray.
 
Remember that Jesus came to fulfill all that had been instituted
before His birth. He came to complete and wrap up and bring to an
end the practice of religion, and to institute in its place, a new
covenant of restored relationship with the Godhead. All the
religious obligations of the Jews were never intended to be
continued in the new dispensation. Jesus came to announce and set in
motion a heavenly Jerusalem, not to slightly adjust the earthly
Jerusalem’s way of worship and add a few extra benefits.
 
Col 2:17 All those things are mere shadows cast before what was
to come; the substance is Christ. 
 
Everything that preceded Christ was a shadow, intended to lead up to
the real thing, the SUBSTANCE, which was Christ. A shadow joins the
reality at the feet. The shadow is behind the reality, in the past.
A shadow is one-dimensional, flat and colorless. The human body is
three-dimensional and colorful. If you build according to the
shadow, you create a flat, lifeless representation of what was
intended, for a shadow only appears to have life when the real
substance is in motion. It is time to stop fixing our eyes upon the
shadow and rather lift our vision and understanding and fix our eyes
on things above in heavenly places. Only then can we begin to
portray the heavenly Truth we gaze upon. Money is an earthly
substance, used to run an earthly system. It has no value in
heavenly places. Therefore, the kingdom of God which originates in
heavenly places cannot be dependant upon earthly currency in order
to function successfully, because it is a spiritual kingdom. The
heavenly Jerusalem descends out of heaven from God. It does not
arise from the earth towards God, using bricks and mortar and money.
 
John himself declared to his disciples that his revelation was
earthly and that Jesus brought a higher dimension of revelation
(John 3:31). Paul also explains:
 
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man
is the Lord from heaven. 1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are
they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they
also that are heavenly. 1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the
image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot
inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit
incorruption.
 
Christ’s Church is being built on heavenly revelation by Him
in order for it to bear the image of the heavenly. When one
structures Christianity according to the shadow and not the reality,
we end up with a Church that has the image of the earthly, of a
religious system that is kept running by tithing. So many struggle
with the Church’s seeming inability to break out of the
clergy-laity mentality, which is merely a modernized depiction of
the Old Testament system of a levitical priesthood serving the
nation of Israel. When one builds something using the wrong pattern,
one ends up with the wrong model.
 
So let us take a look at how Jesus fulfilled and completed
man’s necessity to tithe through his death and resurrection.
The earthly understanding is that the tithe belongs to God. All
income comes from God and therefore His portion must be returned to
Him. This is in order to have one’s page in God’s
account book up to date and balanced. If this is not so, then there
can be no blessing and the devourer moves in because you owe God
money! The scripture that is used to support the system of tithing
is this:
 
Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that
there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith
the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and
pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to
receive it.
 
This instruction was given to the nation of Israel, Jews who
practiced a system of religion under the Old Covenant. We must keep
in mind that everything that preceded Jesus was a shadow, intended
to portray in some measure the reality of Christ. The practices of
the Old Testament, together with the people who served God until the
coming of the Promised Son, ALL served as a prophetic picture in
some way to demonstrate an aspect of the Christ that was to come.
The tithe is no different.
 
Jesus knew that His death and resurrection would be fulfilling all
the requirements of Jewish religious practices. We read in the
passage where he washed the disciples’ feet;
 
Joh 13:3 Jesus knew that the Father had put him in complete
charge of everything, that he came from God and was on his way back
to God.
 
Did you see that? He came from God and was returning to God. The
tithe by definition is holy and separated to the Lord. Jesus WAS the
Tithe, wholly separated to the purposes of God the Father. He came
from the Father and returned to the Father, thus fulfilling the
accounts ledger for all mankind. The tithe has been paid by Christ
Himself in His own blood. Our page is up to date in the ledger. Just
as He settled all outstanding accounts regarding sin, so too He
settled the outstanding debt any had concerning tithes owed. It
really is finished, all of it!
 
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the
uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him,
having forgiven you all trespasses, Col 2:14 blotting out the
handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to
us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.
 
The handwriting against us saying that we have robbed God in tithes
is blotted out. It is not necessary for us to return a set portion
of our income to God. The temple system and the Levitical priesthood
have been abolished. We are His temple, a Melchizedek priesthood.
Jesus as the Tithe made flesh was the first-born of many brethren,
the first-born of a Tithe company, who would be holy and set-apart
for God’s purposes, born of God and returning to Him.
 
So then, if these verses in Malachi are a shadow, what spiritual
reality do they teach us about? What are the threefold principles
which we must see with our spiritual eyes? Firstly, we must note
that there is a difference between a storehouse and a house. People
do not live in the room in which supplies are stored. The storehouse
is a depository for food and weaponry, according to the definition
of the Hebrew word used here. The Church has been taught that the
storehouse is the place where you get your spiritual food, the local
fellowship which you regularly attend. However we are also told that
this is called God’s house. Well, that is confusing – do
we think God dwells in a pantry? Unfortunately, this is what occurs
when one uses an earthly mindset to try and interpret a heavenly
principle. We depict God as someone like us, who says, “Oh,
one last thing before I keep silent for 400 years, you owe Me
money.” We also appoint men to be our spiritual pantries, from
which we withdraw weekly supplies of nourishment, which is far from
what God had in mind in creating a Body for His Son.
 
So we need to understand what the storehouse refers to in order to
rightly divide the Word. If Jesus brought many sons into glory (Heb
2:10) by being the first-born of many brethren, then the spiritual
place which He brought them into must be the storehouse, because
that is where the tithe-company must be brought. We see that the
storehouse is a place of glory in Hebrews 2:10.

[Joian]

Beadsworth Continued..............


Jesus was transferring men out of a Levitical priesthood into a
Melchizedek priesthood, which was sustained by the power of an
endless life (Heb 7:16). If this is so, if this is the reality or
substance, what was the shadow depicting this in the Old Testament?
Let’s go to the very first mention of a tithe in Genesis 14:
 
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek the king of Salem brought forth bread
and wine. And he was the priest of the most high God. Gen
14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the
most high God, possessor of Heaven and earth. Gen 14:20 And
blessed be the most high God, who has delivered your enemies into
your hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
 
Abram gave a tithe of all in his possession to Melchizedek. What was
he doing? He was bringing the whole tithe to the storehouse!
Melchizedek depicts the storehouse. What did this tithe consist of?
- people and possessions taken from the enemy. When Paul was writing
to the Hebrews, he discussed this incident:
 
Heb 7:2 To him Abraham also gave a tenth of all. He was first
by interpretation king of righteousness, and after that also king of
Salem, which is king of peace, Heb 7:3 without father, without
mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days nor end of
life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the
patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. Heb 7:5 And
truly they who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of
the priest, have a commandment to take tithes of the people
according to the Law, that is, from their brothers, though they come
out of the loins of Abraham.
 
Here we see that the sons of Levi were commanded to take tithes from
the people as part of the Law. However we are not part of the
Levitical priesthood collecting money and produce for an earthly
storehouse. We are not under the Law.
 
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received
tithes from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises.
 
Melchizedek received tithes from Abraham and released a blessing.
This is the same blessing spoken of in Malachi 3. We are also told
in verse 9 of Hebrews 7, that Levi paid tithes in Abraham. So we see
there was a transfer of substance from Levi through Abraham to
Melchizedek. Obviously, this again is a shadow, depicting a reality.
Out of the system of Levitical priesthood there was a transfer of a
Tithe Company through Abraham to the Melchizedek Order. Right back
in Genesis 14, the shadow of the Tithing transaction was completed
– a people who would be kings and priests unto God were made
part of the Melchizedek Order. The Melchizedek priesthood does not
pay tithes, they receive tithes – they receive into their
company others who are holy and set-apart for the Lord, who through
water-baptism enter into the death and resurrection of the
Forerunner, Christ.
 
It is the Melchizedek priesthood who are the storehouse, dispensing
bread and wine to the sons of Abraham in order that this transaction
may continually take place; in order that the WHOLE Tithe company
may be brought into this spiritual position and a blessing that is
uncontainable can be released in the earth. If you haven’t
come into the revelation of being part of the Melchizedek
Priesthood, then you are with-holding yourself, as the Tithe and are
robbing God of the fullness of what is His because of the cross!
 
The bread and the wine are a type of the heavenly revelation of
Christ. This is the blessing that is uncontainable – which has
no end or limit. Remember Jesus said:
 
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink
indeed.
 
The tithe must be brought into the storehouse ‘THAT THERE MAY
BE MEAT IN MY HOUSE’. The bread and wine dispensed by the
Melchizedek priesthood/storehouse IS the meat dispensed in the
house. The heavenly revelation of Christ is meat for the mature.
 
The earthly revelation of Christ is milk for those whose senses are
not yet trained. John the Baptist came before Jesus. He revealed
Jesus, the Son of Man, who walked the earth. However, Christ is no
longer the Son of Man. He transitioned from this identity to being
called the Son of God when He rose from the dead:
 
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was
made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Rom 1:4 And
declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of
holiness, by the resurrection from the dead
 
It is time for the Church to receive heavenly revelation of Jesus,
the Son of God, so that we may grow to full stature and no longer be
tossed about by all sorts of teaching. If we only have a revelation
of Jesus as the Son of Man, we will never experience the fullness of
Christ:
 
Eph 4:13 And this until we all come into the unity of the faith
and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the
measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; Eph 4:14 so
that we no longer may be infants, tossed to and fro and carried
about by every wind of doctrine, in the dishonesty of men, in
cunning craftiness, to the wiles of deceit.
 
Furthermore, there exists a specific shadow regarding the tithe for
this 3rd Day in which we live:
 
Deu 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all
the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up
within thy gates Deu 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no
part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the
fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come,
and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee
in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
 
The tithe of the third year went to the levite, stranger, fatherless
and widow and they ate of it within the person’s own gates. In
the 3rd Day, the Tithe Company are to give themselves for the
levite, the stranger, the fatherless and the widow. They are
allotted to go to these groups of people. These poor are to be fed
WITHIN our gates. Out of the storehouse of Christ, the Son of God,
within, we are to satisfy the hunger of the needy. Those who are of
the Levitical mindset need to be fed with the meat of the revelation
of Christ. Those who are alienated from God, strangers, need to
receive a revelation of the manifest love of God through us. Those
orphans who have never connected with Father but been yoked to a
religious system, need to be ushered into the presence of the Father
of Lights. The Church who sits as a widow, without her
Husband’s presence, needs to taste and see that He is good and
in her midst again. Out of the rich deposit of the revelation of
Christ within us, the hungry will be satisfied in the 3rd Day, the
day/year of the tithe.
 
In the first and second year, according to Deuteronomy 14, the tithe
was eaten by the person tithing in the designated place, the
sanctuary. What does this depict? Beloved, for the past 2000 years,
the Church has been feasting off the Tithe, Christ, in the
sanctuary. Now it is time for us to access and share the deposit of
Christ within us with those in need. We can only manifest as the
sons of God to the measure that we partake of the heavenly
revelation of the Son of God ourselves and then minister bread and
wine as part of the Melchizedek priesthood.
 
The milk comes before the meat. Milk is a liquid; it takes the shape
of the container it is poured into. It is only suitable as
nourishment for babies and will never bring the Body of Christ to
maturity. Meat is solid, it has a 3-dimensional substance of its own
and is therefore representative of the experiential reality of
Christ. It must be divided, chewed and digested by the person to
whom it is served.
 
Heb 5:13 For everyone partaking of milk is unskillful in the
Word of Righteousness, for he is an infant. Heb 5:14 But solid
food belongs to those who are of full age, even those who because of
use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 
The teaching of the tithe prevalent in the Church today is milk. It
is second-day revelation which only sustains infants who have not
developed the teeth necessary to chew meat. The word
‘tooth’ comes from a Hebrew word meaning ‘to
teach’. As long as the Church continues to imbibe this milk
teaching it will never grow to maturity and experience the fullness
of its inheritance in Christ. It is time for the Church of Jesus
Christ to lose their milk teeth and receive and embrace teaching
which is true bread and wine. In this third day, we must move in our
understanding from a Levitical mindset to receiving strong meat
dispensed by Christ who is seated in heavenly places. He is the
minister of the heavenly tabernacle and it is only as we begin to
feast on the threefold things that we will be filled with
resurrection power and life.
 
Paul tells the Galations that when they seek to be justified by the
Law, they have come under a yoke of slavery again. He also said:
 
Gal 1:11 And, brothers, I make known to you the gospel which
was preached by me, that it is not according to man. Gal
1:12 For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it
except by a revelation of Jesus Christ.
 
If we continue to receive and operate in a gospel which is according
to man, we will continue to produce a religious system which does
not contain the power of an indestructible life. We MUST receive a
revelation of Jesus Christ as Paul did so that we can truly receive
the blessing released to Abraham. This blessing of the fullness of
our inheritance was an outcome of the promise of God so that we
could be a blessing to all the nations of the earth.
 
We must also redeem our finances from under this yoke of slavery so
that we can begin to operate in the heart of the Father – for
God so loved, He gave. God instituted a dispensation of giving
because of love; thus ending a dispensation of paying of debt
because of Law. When the tithe system within the Church is
abolished, much of what we presently call Church will no longer
function. However, that which is a genuine deposit of Christ will
remain. The earthly temple was destroyed in 70AD signifying a
complete end of the old religious order. It could no longer function
without the actual temple building. In the same way, the religious
system under-girding and enslaving much of the present expression of
Christianity in the earth, will be brought to an end when the Body
of Christ is released into the full freedom of the sons of God. It
is time for the chaff, which has obscured and restricted the true
grain within us, to be threshed and removed, that the grain may come
into the storehouse. Christ expressed within the Melchizedek
priesthood stands with His winnowing fan in His hand;
 
Mat 3:12 whose fan is in His hand, and He will cleanse His
floor and gather His wheat into the storehouse; but He will burn up
the chaff with unquenchable fire.
 
You may ask what will become of the paid ministers of the gospel if
tithes are not paid. Well, certainly there will be much change in
the way the Body functions. Paul worked with his hands as a minister
of the gospel in order to not be a burden on anybody, yet found time
to teach and share from the Word. We are all full-time ministers of
the gospel, wherever we labor. We are all kings and priests,
appointed as ambassadors of a heavenly kingdom. Should the love of
God direct us to give to someone who shares the Word with us, we are
to do so as generously as He instructs. However, God never intended
the fivefold ministry to take the place of the Levitical priesthood
as paid servants of the temple. To do that is to perpetuate an
obsolete system brought to a close by the Blood of Christ. We have
so many entrenched religious mindsets that only the light of Truth
can release us from these shackles and wrong understandings of the
Word.
 
The eyes are the windows of the soul. May our spiritual eyes become
the windows of heaven as we gaze into the perfect law of liberty
displayed in the resurrected Christ. Then, out of our lives, there
will be poured a blessing that is uncontainable - the blessing of
the revelation of Christ in all His glory.
 
So will the whole tithe come into the Storehouse please? They are
calling for meat in the House.
 
selah

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[ChuckK3]

I do believe that people who are in a state of financial abundance should consider supporting ministries that have blessed their lives.  I don't think people who are financially strapped on the other hand (Like myself for instance.  My expenses exceed my income to the point where I have to conduct an underground business just to make ends meet!) should have to be compelled to give what they can't afford.

The mandatory tithe is definitely in contempt of the gospel.  However, 10 percent is a good GUIDELINE for those who are at a level of financial strength where they can give.  It would be very stingy for someone who makes 5000 dollars per month net and no dependents to give only 20 dollars per month to a ministry that s/he finds to be a blessing.  It would go to show how much the ministry and its teachings meant to that person.  On the other hand, 20 dollars is 10 percent of 200.  If a person had an income of only 200 dollars per month, s/he would definitely be well below the poverty level.  Should that person still be expected to contribute anything, let alone a tithe?  Mandatory tithing advocates would tell that person they couldn't afford NOT to tithe.  How evil and wickedly greedy can a person get?  (They may even quote the record where the widow paid only a small coin [called a widow's mite], to Christ himself commenting that the widow gave all she had.  However the context was saying that for the rich to give what they had was no big deal, though they were making it out to be such.  It was not meant to justify commanding poor people to give what they can't afford.)

I personally have been blessed by Tentmaker over the past couple of years, and have on occasion given some financial contributions when I can.  Perhaps someday good fortune will come to me, but until it does, I have to decline from contributing for the most part, tithes or anything else.  I'm sure there will be times when God lays it on my heart to give something.

I do believe however that if it's God's will that Tentmaker ministries will continue, it will absolutely continue, and God will direct those people who can do so to contribute to the ministry.

Chuck

[fire walker]

Wow some churches can be so cold and stoney hearted. Im sure some day when all this is wrapped up we will be able by the grace and love of God to laugh at all this stuff but for now it can sting for sure.

The tithing or you are under a curse thing, oh I hate that one and its children too, if you arent at every service you should not call for any counciling or help. We left a church, resigned when we took a young couple that had just had a baby that had major health problems and all their money was going towards bills. They were about to get their electricity cut off and the church was a good sized one too and yet when we went to the pastor of the church and asked for the funds to help this family. We were told to give them the videos on finances as obviously they werent tithing and managing their money properly! That was the last straw for me. I was furious.

we men have sure made a mess of things havent we
kept

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

exactly, that is why I don't JOIN a church and never am going to, I have been to various churches for various reasons, weddings, funeral memorials, and an occasional very few times for services that some friends had invited me to, the outward friendliness of the leaders in most cases seemed more like a thin layer of veneer while hiding a pharisee spirit behind the curtain, and lo and behold the very friends that had invited me came into need and were hardly able to buy food for their table and their miserable church had the gaul to ask for more money from them.
I hadn't much but we had a huge garden and I let them pick all the vegetables they needed that season plus some fish I had caught from the river I asked them to pick up and take the fishes they could eat.

These folks had been members of that church for about 4 years, that church required tithes from their members and they had paid their tithes faithfuly every week, until the sawmill my friend worked at shut down due to Japan buying all our local logs, many sawmills closed during those years. My friends had four growing children who need to eat, did that miserable greedy money grubbing church offer to help them?
NO! in fact they asked for more money so that God would bless them, what? let your own children go hungry to tithe the church, anyone with a heart of flesh knows better than that!

No, God is not a monster, it was his free gift of grace that moved me to help them while all their church did was preach with their lips with one hand and then do just the opposite with the other hand, if that is not forked tongued I have no other words for it.
. 

Peace,
fire walker

[Cardinal]

Joian, thank you, that made my week and it's only Tuesday......  .....want to share what He gave me....

  Twenty one years ago, when I first came to acknowledge the Lord, I had a husband who literally would not allow the money for a stick of gum. I had no access to funds at all unless I worked, and for those first two years of my walk, I had physical problems that kept me from it. I decided to go with the flow anyway, and take care of my then toddlers. It turned out to be the biggest blessing of my life, as it enabled me to study the Word for hours daily for that 2 years.

  Anyway, I was going to churches then to worship, and when the tithe came I never had 10 cents to put in there. I was made to feel guiltier by the church people, if the sermons every other Sunday on tithing weren't enough to bring condemnation. I was so grieved in my Spirit, I asked Him, "What am I supposed to do here? You know my circumstances."

  He said, "You ARE tithing." Stunned, I asked Him how that could be, I had no money. Once again, because everything He taught me has it's place in the tabernacle pattern, this is what He gave me.

Outer court = tithe is what you are led to give of your natural substance. The outer court deals with the natural realm. Having people over for Bible study in your home, is a tithe to God. Giving of your time is also a tithe to God. Baking a cake from your pantry to share with someone, is a tithe to God.

Inner court = tithe is what you have been given spiritually by God. The use of your spiritual gifts in that you are open and available to be used, is a tithe to God. Walking in what you have been shown spiritually, is a tithe to God, that ultimately leads to THE tithe. More on that in a minute.

Holy of Holies = You BECOME the tithe. I want to capitalize this, not to yell at anyone, but to shout it from the rooftops, LOL........

CHRIST, THE SPIRIT MAN WITHIN US, IS THE FIRSTFRUITS OFFERING = THE TITHE.

He is our tithe; God provided the offering, O sons/seed of Abraham!  Bring the offering into the storehouse and He will pour out a blessing which you cannot contain! He, the Tithe, Christ, WAS brought to the storehouse (returned to God) and DID pour out a blessing upon them on the day of Pentecost, ie. the Holy Ghost!

And as we, allow the Son which is the Christ seed in us, to be laid down as the tithe, we have the pattern and the promise, that when the Son in us, sits at the right hand of the Father IN US, He will shed forth that which they both saw and heard on the day of Pentecost, FROM US, ie. receive ye the Holy Ghost and He blew on them. I'm talking the FULLNESS of the Holy Ghost here, in people that are EQUAL and thought it not robbery, capable of reproducing a nature/seed with a BREATH, ie. being able to bring both the bread and the WINE, in full measure. Glory! Father, we give You praise this morning for Your mighty works among men!

  We are supposed to BE THE BLESSING/TITHE, the oil flows downward from the Head to the body, instead the "head" has been enslaving the body to serve IT, erring after the error of Kore, which is gainsaying. ALL MEN seek after their own, and not the things which be of Christ.

 :icon_biggrin:  Which goes back to the teaching He gave me about the circumcision of Abraham, which I am going to post below this again so it connects clearly what I am saying.......sorry.......   but sometimes you just gotta do it, LOL. Please bear with me for the length........Blessings......

  I have heard the Father's voice and He spoke to the Son/Christ in me. When I asked Him how this could be (as I was in shock, as I always am when another doctrine is about to bite the dust), He gave me the scripture you quoted of David's where he said, "The Lord (God) said to my Lord (Christ).........the Christ was David's Lord, the Messiah of Israel. Jesus spoke of this, when He questioned them about how is it that Messiah be David's son, if David said He is his Lord? In other words, think; how could I Jesus the man, be David's son if David himself said that I am his Lord, and if Lord, then before him in place/time/standing? The answer is; he, Jesus the man couldn't be, but Jesus the Christ, or the Christ that was clothed in Jesus, WAS.

I was given to understand that David had a revelation of this, for out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. What was spoken to the Christ/Son in me, was, "This is my body, which was broken for You." It was given to me to understand during this feast of Tabernacles in the natural that I was celebrating, that the spiritual feast of Tabernacles which involves going thru their walls and eating their fish/Christ, is how Christ in us will minister to God (in man) as opposed to ministering to the outer shell of man only, as has been being done the last 2 days/2000 years, ie. I will do cures and cast out devils.

It was at this point that I stopped thinking that I, as in this shell, was one of the sons of God, even though He Himself spoke this to me before I had ever heard the term or doctrine, because I realized He was speaking of THE Son, the Christ seed who is in me, and in you all, and I stopped taking his glory unto myself. Which is why, Jesus could say, "Why callest me good, there is none good but the Father." And why, the anointing that was the CHRIST, came upon Jesus, as the  glory that was within the shell of the man Jesus came out of a place of Spirit/heaven, ie. mortality swallowed up of immortality. It came as a dove because a dove was the sacrifice of the poor, and the poor in spirit, theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

If you understand that Christ is in bondage in the shell that is man, God wants Christ the Son (like Israel the pattern) released from the Egypt of the flesh holding Him, so that His Son may come and worship Him, ie. I have a baptism to be baptized with and how I am BOUND until it be accomplished. He/God the Father, wants Him/Christ the Son IN US, to come to Him/God the Father, while still in a flesh body just as Jesus was, for the purpose of handing over His kingdom to the Father. His kingdom is all that He was given of the Father, that He in turn gave to us as joint heirs. No greater love hath any man than this, that he lay down his life (kingdom) for his friend (Abraham was God's friend). Jesus didn't die to go to heaven. Heaven was in Him = Christ seed, and He was in heaven = Christ had swallowed the flesh man up. Which is why the pattern is, Christ in us, the hope of glory.  He/Jesus was made like us, that is the pattern and the pattern cannot lie.

This is why God the Father, was IN CHRIST/the Seed, reconciling all men unto Himself. All we've been able to see is the flesh that contained the Seed, but the gospel IS the death, burial and resurrection of CHRIST, the Seed. All seeds reproduce after their own kind, and the Father's own kind is the SPIRIT of CHRIST. Flesh/Jesus and Spirit/Christ in union, produced the new creation man, ie. Jesus the Christ. Christ or Messiah was His title, not His name. The Father sent someone MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH, ie. Christ in the flesh of Jesus the man. This is why Jesus was according to Peter Acts. 2, MADE both Lord AND Christ. It will not be blasphemy when He has made us one with Christ in the truest sense of that word, to be called "Bob" the Christ, "Judy" the Christ, ect., just as Jesus (speaking as the CHRIST = I only speak what I hear my FATHER speak) thought it not blasphemy to be equal with God.

We thought it was all about us, but as usual it's all about Him, and His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, the SPIRIT MAN, which IS CHRIST. Only begotten means, ONLY ONE PRODUCED, there is no other, and no other will be, for the One was divided into many parts or portions of our inheritance, ie. the inheritance of the priests(hood) is God Himself.

The reason the Spirit came upon us as tongues of fire and not as a dove, is because our God is a consuming fire and there is much to consume in us before the "battle of Armageddon" is over, and we can say as our elder brother Jesus said, "The prince of this world cometh, but he hath nothing in me." The old creation man could not say this, as Matt. 13 tells us, for while Adam slept the enemy came and planted the tares. God put Adam to sleep, but He never woke him up, because He could not until Christ came IN THE FLESH.

Arise, shake off the dust (Adam taken from the dust) and Christ will give you light. He came in the flesh, all flesh, when He descended into our "hells", the prison of our Spirit/Christ. Adam, the many membered body, has been asleep bound by death, hell and the grave, ALL of which are in this body of sin, but is slowly waking up during the 2 days of preparation, soon to be awakened to newness of life, our life that is HID IN CHRIST.

This is the foundation of our faith, the cornerstone of it is that CHRIST rose from the dead, bringing the shells with Him that were seen of many, having prepared a place for us that where He is we might be also. Christ in us, is already there in Spirit, but the shells, ie. the part that makes us, us, is not. This is why when He arose, He appeared to them in the shell, the same shell that was pierced, He was pierced for us all  and if the pierced shell is what arose with the Christ, instead of Spirit only, so too do we have hope that this corruption (IF pierced) will be swallowed up of incorruption, ie. death swallowed up of life. Take up your cross and follow Me. And the passover bread is unleavened and PIERCED; beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. And of the Saducees, who say that the resurrection is past already, ie. no need to die to self to be resurrected while still in the body. Bread that has come thru the fire, baked, is pierced, and then broken, fit to be fed to the nations. Father, make us bread, fit for the nations, and cast us upon many waters/peoples.

Christ, IS THE FIRSTFRUITS, and He is arising in a many-membered body of flesh that has loved not their own lives unto death, and bear in their bodies the marks of piercing. Ever wonder why "piercings" are so popular among the young people now? The body (outer court realm) can only do (looking thru a darkened soul/glass) what it sees the head (inner court realm) do, and we have been made to be one with the Head, which is Christ. The time of the piercing is upon us, and they are the outward witness to what is happening in the Spirit, to those who would lay down their lives for Him. In that day, they shall have no excuse, for all the heavens (outer court is a "heaven" too) declare the glory of the Lord.

 And isn't it funny, that our first "normal" reaction is to judge them? Judge not lest ye be judged. We that would judge (and I include myself in that before I asked Him what was going on with this), are being judged in our own judging, because they are OUR WITNESS. God is doing it, they are witnessing it, and it takes 2 witnesses to convict. God help us to know what Your Spirit is doing and MOVE with the cloud, before our sins overtake us and slay us.

This is why no man can say that Christ has come (in THEIR flesh) except thru the power of the Holy Ghost. Why? Because a ghost is a spirit that has lived in a body. A Holy Ghost is a spirit that has lived in a Holy body. Christ is a HOLY BODY, ie. the SON of God, the Lamb that was slain, who took HIS blood which is Spirit into the Holy of Holies on the day of atonement. And when HE rose from the dead (that He might be all in all, both the lowest hells and the highest heavens) and ascended to the Father, HE (Acts. 2), the Christ, hath shed forth this which you now see and hear, ie. the HOLY GHOST. Jesus the natural man did not send forth the Holy Ghost anymore than you or I can pray for people to receive the Holy Ghost from US, because the Holy Ghost doesn't come from us the shell, He comes from the risen Christ, the Lamb that was slain.

Take care that your flight be not in winter; winter = death of something, as in the death of the shell, ie. take care that the Spirit in you does not ascend/released thru the literal death of the body, but rather that you lay down your lives willingly that He might ascend thru the death of self, for God's Spirit will not tarry with man always. But upon THESE, the second death will have no power. Blessings to all.......

[Redlettervoice]

Cardinal, you need to make an "individual" thread of that up there, that was RICH with Truth!

I really appreciate your tithe!  Your storehouse is full and overflowing to us.  God bless you

as you continue to seek God and follow HIM!

[Kept]

One more for my Cardinal file

 

loved it
kept

[Cardinal]

  Thanks Red and Kept, but an individual thread on which part?

[Kept]

Hey Card

I think she is talking about the tithe post but its no longer 'up there' but 'down there' as on this forum the post order has been reversed from what we are used to. So the new ones are at the top instead of at the bottom  :icon_biggrin: And you always go to page one instead of the last page.....will take some getting used to for me

kept

[Cardinal]

  Don't have a clue what you are talking about Kept; I haven't been on this new one yet much to notice a difference, I guess. But anyway, Red, cut and paste it wherever you think it needs to be if you want to. Blessings to you both........