Seed Time Harvest?

[Seeker]

Hi everyone,

Just wondering what your thoughts are regarding "Seed Time Harvest" preaching.  I don't recall the exact scriptures (I'll go seek them out then post later......I can't find my marked up bible), but at my last church the bishop was preaching for months about "planting seeds in the kingdom of God" and waiting for Harvest time.  I always struggled to understand this concept.  Athough in life we do tend to reap what we sow, I don't believe God intended this concept to be about finances only.  Interestingly, we were told that if we sent in a check above our 10% monthly tithe, we were sowing into the kingdom of God (they even told us to write on the envelope what we wanted God to give us).  I seem to remember one scripture always being repeated...something about a "give and it will be given back to you, a good measure, shaken up...etc.).  I can't find it right now, but will post it when I do.  If you know what scripture this is, what do think God meant here?  I know the Bishop was probably missing the boat on this idea, but I never really understood the truth of it. 

Thanks,
Seeker (AKA Ruth)

[Seeker]

So here is one of the scriptures used by my former church:

Mt 9:37-38  The harves is so great, but the workers are so few.  So pray to the Lord who is in charge of the harvest; ask him to send more workers for his fields.

I'm still trying to find the one about the storehouses...give and it will be given to you in full measure...or something of that sort.  Anyone know which one I'm looking for?

-SeekerRuth
 

[Pleroo]

I'm not familiar with that teaching and, quite honestly, I don't know right now what the meaning is and I'm short on time, but I'm putting up the passage and some cross references that may be of some help.

Here's the passage in it's context:

Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. 38 "Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."

Now look at the NT cross reference to verse 38, which seems to have a positive meaning, the idea of a spiritual reproducing:

First, in the context of explaining to the disciples the parable of the seeds and the sed which falls on good soil producing 30, 60 and 100 fold. Mark 4: 24 "Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you--and even more. 25 Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

And some OT cross references which seem to fall more in line with the judgment/condemnation idea:

Psalm 79:12 Pay back into the laps of our neighbors seven times the reproach they have hurled at you, O Lord.

Isaiah 65:6
"See, it stands written before me: I will not keep silent but will pay back in full; I will pay it back into their laps--  
65:7
both your sins and the sins of your fathers," says the Lord. "Because they burned sacrifices on the mountains and defied me on the hills, I will measure into their laps the full payment for their former deeds."  

Jeremiah 32:18
You show love to thousands but bring the punishment for the fathers' sins into the laps of their children after them. O great and powerful God, whose name is the Lord Almighty,

[Kratos]

The context of Luke 6 is giving and receiving forgiveness, but the principle is that whatever you sow, you will also reap. Seed time and harvest is an eternal law. Whatever you are reaping in your life today is a result of what you planted or gave yesterday. The best way to change your tomorrow is to change what you are doing today.

I know at work I try to always give and serve others knowing that it will be given back to me good measure and pressed together and running over. This is true of whether you give to others good or evil. Change your seed. Change your harvest.

It certainly is not all about giving money to a church.

[Seeker]

Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. 38 "Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."

That's it!!  Thank you, I've been looking for that 

So the teaching was that if you give to a ministry financially....it will come back to you "running over" and if you didn't give generously...the opposite was true.  I think that God was trying to say something more deep here...but I can't quite put my finger on it.  I don't think he was referring to money at all. 

The trouble I'm having with this scripture, or at least the way I've heard it taught, is that is is conditional on what we DO.  I understand God's love to be unconditional and what he choses to "give" us....NOT conditional on what we DO.  If my belief is accurate, then how does this scripture fit?  It seems as though there are two conflicting views.

Thanks,
SeekerRuth
 

[Seeker]

Thanks Kratos, I just read your post.  That explains a lot.   

[Kratos]

I do not think that seedtime and harvest are something that God does for us anymore than He gets involved everytime that gravity works. It is just a spiritual law that He set in place. No matter how loving and forgiving our Father is, God is not mocked based on His grace and whatever you sow, you will reap. Tying it into grace or God not reacting to what we do would be like saying that if I jump off a building, God will decide whether I will fall or not regardless of what I do. At least this is how I see it.

John

[AbbasChild]

I agree John. But I would also add "look at the birds who neither sow nor reap and yet your Heavenly Father takes care of them". This is not a contradiction to me, but another proof that this principle has nothing to do with our Heavenly Dad as a Person, but that it is a law. I am always amazed at the 'prodigal son' story where the older brother worked and served hard and followed all the principles in the father's house and yet did not know His unconditional love, while the younger returned home and having done everything wrong still experienced the provision and protection of his fathers house. As somebody once pointed out, both sons were needy. The one had an empty stomach and the other one an empty heart.

[Pleroo]

That makes me think of the Biblical saying, "If a man shall not work, neither shall he eat."  I used to think that was a threat from God, but I realized that it was simply a natural principle or reaping what you sew, as Kratos is saying. 

[arcticmonster2003]

That makes me think of the Biblical saying, "If a man shall not work, neither shall he eat."  I used to think that was a threat from God, but I realized that it was simply a natural principle or reaping what you sew, as Kratos is saying. 

Yes Pleroo, and we can also keep in mind that this may not be one of Gods natural principals for us forever but rather part of our judgement here on earth.

17  And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18  Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

[martincisneros]

I think that a major problem with the way that this principle is handled is that it's very often not handled with balance by believers and it's often difficult to preach a fuller picture at every opportunity that the Lord would want this emphasized.  Some preach the giving, service, compassion, forgiveness, and being enduring under trial to the exclusion of the financial aspect (i.e. of reaping), while others will tend to emphasize the financial aspect to the neglect of emphasizing the compassion, forgiveness, endurance, and other good works - perhaps to a certain degree because the financial aspect was genuinely ignored for centuries.

And then there's the idea on the financial side that's conveyed sometimes that this is the only Biblically valid way of prospering under the New Covenant, or that it'll all happen every first and fifteenth of the month if you give at every Church service, missionary endeavor, Christian television telethon, and everytime you pass a beggar or a begging 11 year old in your family that would genuinely have few options of making some money on their own because of all of the child labor laws.

2Corinthians 8:9 indicates that among all of the other purposes that Jesus died for us, that included in the righteousness being imparted to us, and every other principle of the New Life, Jesus also went through all that He went through for us to claim it as our covenant right to be ridiculously well furnished for every good work.  Not enough pressure is put on the finished work of the Cross by those who preach sowing and reaping, whether they're teaching the financial aspect or not.  This was sandwiched in the 2Corinthians chapters 8 and 9 where that offering was being received and sowing and reaping was being invoked as a motivator.  BECAUSE Jesus has made you richer than the wildest dreams of avarice in every single way - including financially - let's get this principle of the Cross flowing a little more dynamicly into your life by letting your love expand beyond your own life and your own immediate concerns for your family, your local fellowship, etc., etc., etc.  This [sowing and reaping] wasn't supposed to be emphasized without the cross and the Cross wasn't supposed to be emphasized without the sowing and reaping, [if I'm reading Paul right] because this is an ever-increasing Kingdom that we're in.  But sharing that complete perspective for some reason elludes many teachers.