Author Topic: Time  (Read 1397 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Time
« on: September 07, 2011, 08:24:34 AM »
Was there time before Genesis 1:1?

Will there be time after Revelation 22:21?

What little we know about eternity from the Bible, does eternity have time?

Just what is eternity, according to the Bible?

I know little about eternity, for the Bible says little if nothing at all about the subject, but I believe and reason that time is in eternity, and that time was before Genesis 1:1 and it will be after Revelation 22:21. :HeartThrob: :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 08:47:41 AM »
There's a lot of info about the ages. And threads about it  :winkgrin:

ACVHeb 1
2 whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the ages.

ACV1Cor 2
7 But we speak a wisdom of God in a hidden mystery, which God predestined before the ages for our glory,

YLT2Tim 1
9 who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,

ACVHeb 9
26 since it would be necessary for him to suffer often, from the foundation of the world. But now once, at the end of the ages, he was made known for an annulment of sin by the sacrifice of himself.

ACV1Cor 10
11 Now all these things happened to those men for examples, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the ends of the ages came.

ACVMatt 24
3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be? And what is the sign of thy coming, and of the termination of the age?

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 09:00:22 AM »
I do not believe that what you have put forth has anything to do with my questions, as far as time and its being.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 09:01:37 AM »
I think it's the exact answer to your questions.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 10:18:41 AM »
Just what are your answers to do with time, before Gen.1:1 and Re. 22:21?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Time
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 10:28:32 AM »
THE 'IN THE BEGINNING' OF GEN 1:1 SEEMS TO BE REFERRING TO THE BEGINNING OF THE AGES BECAUSE GOD GOES ON TO COUNT THE DAYS--DAY 1, DAY 2, ETC--WE ARE NOW COUNTING TIME.

SO IF SOMETHING HAPPENS BEFORE THE AGES, IT HAPPENS BEFORE GEN 1:1.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 10:37:09 AM »
Just what are your answers to do with time, before Gen.1:1 and Re. 22:21?
When ages are made it means they didn't exist before they were made.

The "red verse" are all about before ages. The blue ones are after ages.
Ages=time

CLVTitus 1
2 in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian,
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 10:45:01 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Time
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 03:14:39 PM »
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

--1Cor2:7

Offline thinktank

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Re: Time
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 07:52:29 PM »
You might want to read the book of wisdom.


Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 08:31:52 PM »
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

--1Cor2:7

When was " before time began.?" So you are saying that before time began nothing happened and there was nothing, not even God?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 08:34:02 PM »
Just what are your answers to do with time, before Gen.1:1 and Re. 22:21?
When ages are made it means they didn't exist before they were made.

The "red verse" are all about before ages. The blue ones are after ages.
Ages=time

CLVTitus 1
2 in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian,

"When ages are made it means they didn't exist before they were made."

When were the ages not? Ages have time.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Time
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 08:38:54 PM »
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

--1Cor2:7

When was " before time began.?" So you are saying that before time began nothing happened and there was nothing, not even God?

You know I'm not saying that Micah, lol.

The ages are a construct of God.  Before the ages, of course God existed.  Go back and read ww's quotes.

Our Bible gives us a very small window on a very big picture.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 08:44:12 PM »
Okay, then there was time before Gen.1:1 and there will be time after Rev. 21:22 that's all I was wondering, and then I asked

"Just what is eternity, according to the Bible?"
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2011, 10:09:34 PM »
Just what are your answers to do with time, before Gen.1:1 and Re. 22:21?
When ages are made it means they didn't exist before they were made.

The "red verse" are all about before ages. The blue ones are after ages.
Ages=time

CLVTitus 1
2 in expectation of life eonian, which God, Who does not lie, promises before times eonian,

"When ages are made it means they didn't exist before they were made."

When were the ages not? Ages have time.
Hu?
Yes ages have time. And before those ages there was no time. Without mass there can't be time.

Time began 10-43 seconds after creation started.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2011, 10:11:48 PM »
Okay, then there was time before Gen.1:1 and there will be time after Rev. 21:22 that's all I was wondering, and then I asked

"Just what is eternity, according to the Bible?"
Micah, I think the Bible never mentions eternity. Yes, it's often translated as eternity but imo it isn't in the Hebrew or Greek
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2011, 10:16:58 PM »
Rev 22 [ACV]
13 I, the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

I think that verse possibly also is about time.
Everything was created for/by/through Jesus ==> Alpha  -> Time created

Jesus hands over His kingdom and God becomes all-in-all ==> Omega -> Time uncreated

 :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 10:43:33 PM »
Psa 102:27 Yet You remain the same, And Your years shall not come to end."
Luk 1:33  and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.'

noG3756 end.G5056
noH3808 end.H8552

If or should there be NO END then there will be something happening and if so there will be TIME!

Isa 57:15  For, thus, saith he that is high and lifted upInhabiting futurity, And, holy, is his name: A high and holy place, will I inhabit, Also with the crushed and lowly in spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly, and To revive the heart of them who are crushed;
Isa 57:15 For thus says Yahweh, high and lifted up, who tabernacles the future, and holy is His name:"In the high and holy place am I tabernacling, and with the crushed and lowly spirit, to preserve alive the spirit of the lowly, and to preserve alive the heart of the crushed."
Isa 57:15  For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 05:27:54 AM »
Time has always been, Jehovah H3068 yehôvâh  (the) self Existent
From H1961 haw-yaw' to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass 

Rev 1:8  `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming--the Almighty.'
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2011, 11:52:12 AM »
Psa 102:27 Yet You remain the same, And Your years shall not come to end."
Luk 1:33  and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages; and of his reign there shall be no end.'

noG3756 end.G5056
noH3808 end.H8552

If or should there be NO END then there will be something happening and if so there will be TIME!
Outside time things won't end either. Plus imo His reign does end. Quoting from another post:
Quote
"In the book of Revelation we do not have the final plan of God. Paul, in 1Co_15:22-28 takes us much further into the future than does the book of Revelation. To illustrate this more clearly, study the following: 1Co_15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20-22: 

In 1Co_15:22-28, we have:
 
No more rule
No more authority
No more power
No more enemies
No more reigning
All subjected
No more death, death destroyed
All made alive, immortal 

In Revelation 20-22, we have: 

Still rule (Rev_20:6; Rev_22:5)
Son still reigns (Rev_22:1-5; Rev_21:5)
Authority (Rev_21:24-25)
Power (Rev_21:24-25; Rev_22:2)
Kings (Rev_21:24-26)
Saints reign (Rev_22:5)
Second death still exists (Rev_21:8)
The nations still mortal (Rev_22:2)" 

Quote
[/b]
Isa 57:15  For, thus, saith he that is high and lifted upInhabiting futurity, And, holy, is his name: A high and holy place, will I inhabit, Also with the crushed and lowly in spirit, To revive the spirit of the lowly, and To revive the heart of them who are crushed;
Isa 57:15 For thus says Yahweh, high and lifted up, who tabernacles the future, and holy is His name:"In the high and holy place am I tabernacling, and with the crushed and lowly spirit, to preserve alive the spirit of the lowly, and to preserve alive the heart of the crushed."
Isa 57:15  For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
'ad I. Perpetuity. ASV, RSV translate similarly, except in Isa 45:17. Here the former has "world without end" while the latter has "to all eternity."
It should be noted that there is no general word for time in Hebrew, neither are there special terms for the past, present, future, and eternity. The word 'lām should be compared, with special attention given to the nineteen times when these words are used together.
'ad, like 'lām, is used only in connection with prepositions, as an adverbial accusative or as a genitive in a construct chain. Ugaritic b'd 'lm could correspond to Hebrew 'd as well as to 'ad (UT 19: no. 1813).
This word is used only twice relative to the past. The knowledge that the success of the wicked is short, has been known from of old (Job 20:4). In Hab 3:6 reference is made to the antiquity of the mountains.

The problem with all those eternity posts/discussion/verses is that our languages are based on how things are in our world. Time is a reality in our world so you will see that in the languages of the world. The text I quoted above gives me a strong impression time in Hebrew is a vague as possible. Translators keep translating to the "time concept of our world" while in some cases that's not what the text means.

Although interesting this discussion is also totally useles because there is zero diffrence between living infinitely long or living outside of time. Both concepts have no end.
Putting on my scientific glasses :gpg: part of the answer is "what is there" when God becomes all in all? Will there still be the same universe as we live in now? According to science (read laws of nature God made during creation) time can't exist when there is no mass/matter.
A universe is based on death. Our universe simply can't exist without decay. Even the sun shines because it's dying. From that pov I would say things will change. No mass. No time.
 :dontknow:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2011, 12:01:21 PM »
Time has always been, Jehovah H3068 yehôvâh  (the) self Existent
Outside of time there is also "eterinity".


From H1961 haw-yaw' to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass 

Quote
Rev 1:8  `I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming--the Almighty.'
Don't you find it odd that in this verse we see "beginning" and "end" while you are trying (I think) to prove God has no beginning or end.
In concept based on time and not based on time beginning/end never can mean "always".

Makes me think of WillieH's posts. One of his favorites was "NOW".
Now is a time concept but I think it's best one for a timeless enviorment. God didn't exist yesterday. God doesn't exits tomorrow. God only exist now. If you ask God a billion times what time it is He looks on His watch and the answer is always "now"  :icon_king:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2011, 06:29:51 PM »
"Our universe simply can't exist without decay."  "between living infinitely long or living outside of time."

Has to be time for decay and living to happen.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Time
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2011, 06:41:13 PM »
This natural realm is confined to the element of time.  Outside of this natural realm, time is not relevant.  It's at the edge of our capabilities to grasp.  We've never experienced life outside of time's reach.  But our experience in this realm is merely a vapor of time.  And that's just in "this" realm.  Revelation also speaks to the fact that there will be no sun or moon . . .it's not just about illumination, all though that plays a great role, but it's also about the measurement of time.  That's what they do, they're measuring seasons, days and years.  The second God put the planets in their orbits, time in this realm began. 

But in the spirit, everything is already completed . . .it's why Jesus stated that he only does what he sees the Father has already done.  "This" realm is under the influence of time where things must go through processes and progressions.  But in the spirit, one can see the end from the beginning because one steps out of the influence of time.  Time is what keeps us from seeing tomorrow.  And it's what causes us to forget yesterday.  Which is how Jesus can "be" yesterday, today and endless tomorrows . .he is spirit.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Time
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2011, 06:54:01 PM »
"Which is how Jesus can "be" yesterday, today and endless tomorrows . .he is spirit." Nathan

Each one of these words are all about time, "yesterday, today and endless tomorrows."
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Time
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2011, 10:36:08 PM »
Actually, each one of those words are about  a person.  God is merely using natural things to reveal spiritual truths . . .he does that a lot.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Time
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2011, 11:08:37 PM »
"Our universe simply can't exist without decay."  "between living infinitely long or living outside of time."

Has to be time for decay and living to happen.
In this realm yes. The warmth you feel from the sun is the sun burning up. ==> Decaying/dying.
You must eat to stay alive. You indigestion is based on decay.

The funny thing is that even science agrees with "God created the ages"
There was no time before the Big Bang according to science.
In the Bible the Big Bang is called Genesis 1:1

It's a difficult topic Micah. Not only to collect solid proof (verses) but also to explain.
Our world doesn't know the concept of 'no time'. That means we have no words to adequately discuss such a topic.
So all we can do is juggle a bit with words to explain a timeless concept with words that all have a meaning of time.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...