Author Topic: Thoughts on the advesary (Read 2312 times)

shawn · « **Reply #50 on:** September 17, 2011, 04:36:54 PM »

Quote from: micah7:9 on September 16, 2011, 09:33:43 PM

Quote from: Nathan on September 15, 2011, 10:47:31 PM
YES!!!! That's what I've been trying to tell you all along!! Well . . .not the keep your distance part . . .that's entirely up to you . . .but YES!! To the other!!! My carnal mind IS SATAN . . .it is of an adversary nature just because it's flesh and bone! That's why Jesus turned to Peter and called him satan! He was talking to the same power-source that he, himself dealt with in his own life in the wilderness. Peter's carnal mind could only hear that Jesus said he was going to Jerusalem to DIE and be BURIED. Even though Jesus clearly said it, Peter didn't hear AND BE RESURRECTED because his mind never got past the DEATH and BURIAL. Because just as Paul stated . . .his/our mind is always AT ENMITY AGAINST GOD.

That's what the "adversary" is . . .it's the ENMITY against GOD. But that verse goes on to say not only is my mind "not" in line with God . . .it isn't designed to be. My spirit has to keep my mind in line. You don't teach someone to fall down . . .that's a trait born in us all. What they need to be taught is how to sit up, stand up, get up . . .our minds have to be trained how to walk "up"-right . . . .literally and spiritually speaking. That's why Scripture tells us that we must TAKE CAPTIVE our thoughts. Because when given the first opportunity to do something on it's own, our mind will automatically turn toward the desires of the flesh rather than into the light of Truth. That's what "a dog returning to it's vomit" is all about. Our minds ARE the adversary nature. They "are" satanic in nature.

so yes, and absolutely . . .my mind IS satan!!!

I'm not sure if you said that tongue-in-cheek, or if you're actually seeing it to be that way. But for me, you walked right into it. That's exactly what I've been saying.

"so yes, and absolutely . . .my mind IS satan!!!""

I write this with peace in my heart.

Nathan there have been many who have come to that conclusion, that our carnal mind is the adversary[satan], that cannot be so. For that to be true Jesus would have had a carnal mind and He did not, for He knew NO SIN.

Now the adversary will use our minds to work out the evil alloted to the enemy. I reason that our mind is a stronghold, when man is called and is reborn, man is a new creature[all things become new] with the mind of Christ which will mature be complete as we grow in Him and He in us. Now.... the enemy has to attempt to overcome mind of Christ. Which will be of no avail.

I just put this up for discussion as I am undecided on this subject. But, if Jesus was truly God and truly man then he indeed had to deal with the carnal. If not, he didn't really go through what we went through. He had nothing within himself that was sin, yet his body spoke to him. His body must have tried to take control of his spirit, or he didn't experience the trials we face. Therefore I really have no issue anymore with thinking that Jesus had to fight the carnal nature built into the flesh. As Paul said, that isn't us...that is our flesh.

CHB · « **Reply #51 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:13:58 PM »

(Heb. 2:14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might DESTROY HIM THAT HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL.

If the Devil is our minds would someone please explain the above scripture. Is Jesus destroying his own mind? Does our minds have the power over death? If our minds is Satan and if Jesus' death destroyed the power over death, then all of our minds would be destroyed.

CHB

sheila · « **Reply #52 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:25:22 PM »

satan/devil..is the liar that deceives the mind of man....when the spirit of truth comes...it frees man's mind from the deception of the liar......

two things to be discerned....the liar that deceives the entire inhabited earth....man's mind deceived....all in Adam died

and spirit of truth that free's man's mind...mind of Christ...all in Christ raised to life

don't call the deceived mind the liar spirit...discern the spirits...lest you become spiritually ill/death discern the body of each...

sheila · « **Reply #53 on:** September 18, 2011, 06:51:26 PM »

examine the 'works' of the contrast good/evil spirits....good spirit..truth,love,peace,joy,charity,faith............evil spirit 'works" liar,hate,strife,torment,greed,faithless

Jesus Christ came to break up 'the works' of the devil in the minds/hearts of men.......

it is the judgement of spirits for the works done in the body..whether good or evil[only God is 'good'...so the 'good' seed is the spirit seed/progency

of God,sown in the earth.]

Man ate from the TOKOGAE...symbolizing a mixture of these contrast spirits in man.....Christ appears apart from sin...and seperates seed......

evil seed works 'kills good seed" chokes it out.....like tares over-running a feild..... bundled and burned..........

good seed produces 30 fold,60,100 and is gathered into storehouse.

The seperating judgement of Christ...is the dividing of good from evil........in the good/evil mix tree of death.....the root in the earth of the evil seed..

is of the spirit of satan...the root and offspring of Jesse...is Christ...even the goodness of God shown unto us.

shawn · « **Reply #54 on:** September 18, 2011, 07:38:36 PM »

Quote from: CHB on September 18, 2011, 06:13:58 PM

(Heb. 2:14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might DESTROY HIM THAT HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL.

If the Devil is our minds would someone please explain the above scripture. Is Jesus destroying his own mind? Does our minds have the power over death? If our minds is Satan and if Jesus' death destroyed the power over death, then all of our minds would be destroyed.

CHB

I don't believe the devil is our minds. I believe it's possible that satan is a spirit that is opposed to God, and God's will. That indeed has the power of death. When I lived life by my terms... stood at the edge of the abyss and almost died. My carnal need to make me the god of my own heart, brought me death spiritually, and nearly brought me death physically.

Paul himself spoke about when we sin, it is no longer us sinning. Therefore, there is this seperation...this body...this carnal that is outside of the spirit...and it speaks to us...it vies for control. If Jesus didn't have to fight this...then did he really go through what we went through?

Molly · « **Reply #55 on:** September 18, 2011, 08:51:27 PM »

The default position [ok there are exceptions] seems to be cut off from God.

I think if I could say the default adult position, it would probably be more accurate.

Thus we were once children of wrath, enemies of God, at enmity with God, and like Sheila says, the whole world is deceived.

[You can fool all of the people some of the time].

It's not a good situation.

We are just vessels meant to carry a spirit.

What spirit we carry makes all the difference--but we will be slaves to one or the other.

And, yes, Micah, I believe the Nachash did what he did in the garden without God's permission. We don't see God punishing Satan for going after Job. Satan was just evil with Job, but with Adam, he was unspeakably evil.

[Romans 1:1,] "Paul, A slave of Jesus Christ, called an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God..."

Nathan · « **Reply #56 on:** September 19, 2011, 04:37:09 PM »

So satan can approach the throne of God literally, and enter into the purifying light . . .where light is, darkness cannot exist . . .unless it's satain, in that case, darkness is not affected by light . . .

thinktank · « **Reply #57 on:** September 19, 2011, 09:41:52 PM »

Can we approach God and complain, yet not change?

I think its possible. So if we can do it, maybe that's how the devil does it.

But from experience I can say that I have met God on one occasion and His power/glory was to much to bare, fell as dead, but I could have stayed there for ages on account of the peace. But when it comes to visions of God, I can complain to God and be angry with him, without fear. So I think it might depend on whether God is willing to grant an audience and hear what the accuser has to say.

sheila · « **Reply #58 on:** September 20, 2011, 03:22:32 AM »

Father knows what is hidden in darkness...just as He knows what is hidden in Christ. When the accusor of the brethern is cast down......

all mankind is raised up in Christ....yes....the accusors fall...is the raising up. O' death where is thy sting.?.....I shall be thy plagues.

who knows,maybe you will have the priviledge of tossing the 'evil tools' into the LOF yourself.

when the time came to wean my little grandson....I had him to fill his bottle with rocks...and drop it into the lake from the dock

and watch it sink out of sight.

Lindy · « **Reply #59 on:** September 22, 2011, 05:45:38 AM »

Amazing discussion here, and it goes right to the heart of something I'm dealing with in my life, with my son.

Because of having ADD, he was tormented by others in school, viciously so. It has severely damaged him emotionally and I daresay spiritually. He has a LOT of anger issues, does believe there is a creator, but he flatly states he hates God. His reason? If God is truly all powerful, all knowing, all seeing, then why would He be so cruel as to create evil? It is a contradiction he cannot accept or excuse in his mind. He blames God for creating an evil world with an evil Satan and evil people.

Try to tell him it was not created so in the beginning, he immediately counters with this, that either God is God and created everything, including evil, or God is NOT God, not all powerful all knowing, etc. God created Satan / Lucifer / the devil, whatever name one wishes to tag him with, so God had to have created the evil in Satan, one way or another God created and allowed evil to exist, thus thousands of years of agony and suffering.

I am honestly at a loss in how to even begin to approach this with him, and frankly, I just tell him that I do not have all the answers, that all I know is God does love us all, and there are simply things we cannot at present understand.

So I am reading with interest the different views you are sharing here, and hoping that maybe there is an answer that does not come across as trite or self serving. It's tough to deal with this, but he is not the only person who sees God this way, and maybe this is something we do need to dig deeper into to be better prepared with answers for those who don't see our Father as we do?

micah7:9 · « **Reply #60 on:** September 22, 2011, 06:00:09 AM »

The subject is difficult to say the least for an adult as compared to a young person. God created evil
Isa 45:7 Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things."

God created evil[the negative] in the beginning as a tool to bring man to know His Love[the positive] It is hard to grasp but without a negative, positive would have nothing to overcome. His thought are not our thoughts.
Isa 55:8 For, my thoughts, are not, your thoughts, Nor, your ways, my ways,—Declareth Yahweh.
1Co 1:25 because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men;

It is a spiritual war
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh
2Co 10:4 (for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty before God to the casting down of strongholds),
2Co 10:5 casting down imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 and being in readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience shall be made full.

Probably did not help much, but these are things we need to understand to walk the path.

WhiteWings · « **Reply #61 on:** September 22, 2011, 08:41:26 AM »

Lindy few threads on evil. As a summary I can say that people on this forum can't reach agreement on that topic.

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/discussions_universal_salvation/i_make_peace_and_create_evil_not_any_more._6497.msg70038.html#msg70038

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/the_problem_evil_8837.msg108328.html#msg108328

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/problem_evil._1550.msg14591.html#msg14591

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/judgement_and_punishment/if_god_created_evil_then_why_is_he_obligated_allow_it_eternal_victory_6168.msg64346.html#msg64346

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/discussions_universal_salvation/why_god_allows_evil_george_macdonald_3502.msg36631.html#msg36631

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/bible_threatenings_explained/why_god_yes_god_created_evil._8752.msg106247.html#msg106247

WhiteWings · « **Reply #62 on:** September 22, 2011, 08:57:46 AM »

Quote from: CHB on September 18, 2011, 06:13:58 PM

(Heb. 2:14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might DESTROY HIM THAT HAD THE POWER OF DEATH, THAT IS, THE DEVIL.

If the Devil is our minds would someone please explain the above scripture. Is Jesus destroying his own mind? Does our minds have the power over death? If our minds is Satan and if Jesus' death destroyed the power over death, then all of our minds would be destroyed.

CHB

^ACVMatt 25
41 Then he will also say to those at the left hand, Depart from me, ye accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his agents.

The verse speaks about 1 devil and many agents/angels/messengers.
If the devil misguides people in a way he is in their heads. But not literally.
About believers it's said they are "ïn Jesus". ===> Mind of Jesus
Isn't the opposite being "in the devil"? ===> Mind of the devil

So I think Jesus wasn't destroying His own mind. Besides of that I think purging the mind would be a better translation. Getting rid of the lies.
When Jesus was led into the wilderness the devil tried to enter Jesus' mind. If Jesus would have taken the offer of the kingdoms or any other suggestion then Jesus' mind would have been invaded.
Likely not the best choice of words but I hope you get the message

So I think the devil is in peoples minds (in the form of false thoughts etc) But in case of Jesus the devil never entered so no need to destroy/purge His mind.

micah7:9 · « **Reply #63 on:** September 22, 2011, 11:16:09 AM »

"So I think the devil is in peoples minds (in the form of false thoughts etc) But in case of Jesus the devil never entered so no need to destroy/purge His mind." WW

I believe that is pretty close. Still I contend that the adversary is able to use man's mind, that was the weak link in Gen. 3 was it not?

Molly · « **Reply #64 on:** September 22, 2011, 01:40:55 PM »

The weak link in Gen 3 was Adam's love for his wife.

1 Timothy 2:14
King James Version (KJV)

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. [1 Pet 4:8]

sheila · « **Reply #65 on:** September 22, 2011, 02:38:28 PM »

and that shows the utter sinfulness of sin.....that it slays man by that which is good. any of you remember the movie 'the GREEN MILE"?......

WhiteWings · « **Reply #66 on:** September 22, 2011, 10:50:35 PM »

The Green Mile was a really good movie.
That black guy on dead-row (don't remember his name) absorbed illness of other people and it came out of his mouth as black smoke or flies IIRC.

eaglesway · « **Reply #67 on:** September 23, 2011, 12:02:49 AM »

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.(Co 2:8)

Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
(Col 2:18-19)

We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ(from 2Co 10:3-6)

We fight not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, the rulers of the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realmsAnd do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. (Romans 12:1,2)

Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.(James 3:13-17)

And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.(2Ti 2:24-26)

micah7:9 · « **Reply #68 on:** September 23, 2011, 02:34:35 AM »

Quote from: eaglesway on September 23, 2011, 12:02:49 AM

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.(Co 2:8)

Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
(Col 2:18-19)

We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ(from 2Co 10:3-6)

We fight not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, the rulers of the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realmsAnd do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. (Romans 12:1,2)

Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.(James 3:13-17)

And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.(2Ti 2:24-26)

micah7:9 · « **Reply #69 on:** September 23, 2011, 02:46:44 AM »

Great movie the Green Mile! Have the book as well. It was a movie and a book written by a guy who has a great imagination, and that imagination is used to impose mostly evil. Mr. King writes for money and thus he needs to write for the interest of the masses. Good and bad. How about the "Tommy Knockers?" I gave his books away, I kept the Green Mile, he did stumble onto a truth. I wonder how many who read the book or saw the movie heard from the Father? Or was it just an entertainment vehicle because King knew that he would make money hitting the ball to the good and the bad? I am a cynic when I am entertained by mans playing in the sand.......and I do not apologize.

micah7:9 · « **Reply #70 on:** September 23, 2011, 08:58:26 AM »

Which is more susceptible to the adversary/satan/serpent/dragon/devil in getting man to be incited/tempted to follow his desires and sin/miss the mark.....the soul or the mind?

sheila · « **Reply #71 on:** September 23, 2011, 05:29:20 PM »

re ww'so I think Jesus wasn't destroying His own mind....

I will put enmity between the serpents seed and the seed of the woman....

the serpent will bruise his heel...AND HE WILL CRUSH THE SERPENTS HEAD.........breaking up the mind of the serpent in men....what was

this mind of the serpent in men..shown at His ministry? Hypocrisy,condemnation,greed,malice.arrogance..judging law, heaping up heavy loads on men

impossible to bear.Saying,but not doing 'eletism,harshness,prestigeselfishness. A general lack of LOVE AND RESPECT for both God and man by religious leaders who sat

in Moses' seat respecters of men if to their advantage.rejoicing in lies

The mind of Christ was honesty integrity,love and obediance to Father,truth,love of brothers, inclination of to what was right and just,humility..self-sacrificing

for the good of all

micah7:9 · « **Reply #72 on:** September 24, 2011, 10:03:00 AM »

What other vehicle than man's mind can the enemy use? Jesus, when taken to the wilderness was tempted by offering "something" that only a mind could would find enticing.
Jesus with stood.... He was as they say above the law.
How can or does the enemy entice man to doubt, to consider to do a thing that would break a law? What other part of the human being other that man's would consider his own greed, self satisfaction, or want?
Yes, the adversary knows that the mind of man is the channel.

The adversary is not the carnal mind, no the enemy uses man's mind as a channel to do the work.

CHB · « **Reply #73 on:** September 24, 2011, 06:28:28 PM »

Quote from: micah7:9 on September 24, 2011, 10:03:00 AM

What other vehicle than man's mind can the enemy use? Jesus, when taken to the wilderness was tempted by offering "something" that only a mind could would find enticing.
Jesus with stood.... He was as they say above the law.
How can or does the enemy entice man to doubt, to consider to do a thing that would break a law? What other part of the human being other that man's would consider his own greed, self satisfaction, or want?
Yes, the adversary knows that the mind of man is the channel.

The adversary is not the carnal mind, no the enemy uses man's mind as a channel to do the work.

Amen!!

CHB

Molly · « **Reply #74 on:** September 24, 2011, 08:26:37 PM »

Quote from: CHB on September 24, 2011, 06:28:28 PM

Quote from: micah7:9 on September 24, 2011, 10:03:00 AM
What other vehicle than man's mind can the enemy use? Jesus, when taken to the wilderness was tempted by offering "something" that only a mind could would find enticing.
Jesus with stood.... He was as they say above the law.
How can or does the enemy entice man to doubt, to consider to do a thing that would break a law? What other part of the human being other that man's would consider his own greed, self satisfaction, or want?
Yes, the adversary knows that the mind of man is the channel.

The adversary is not the carnal mind, no the enemy uses man's mind as a channel to do the work.

Amen!!

CHB

Satan can channel through the carnal mind

but we have the mind of Christ.[1 Cor 2:16]

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Author Topic: Thoughts on the advesary (Read 2312 times)