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Offline WhiteWings

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The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« on: September 24, 2012, 07:58:27 PM »
Choosing the Scape-goat
The first part of the expiatory service—that for the priesthood—had taken place close to
the Holy Place, between the porch and the altar. The next was performed close to the
worshipping people. In the eastern part of the Court of Priests, that is, close to the
worshippers, and on the north side of it, stood an urn, called Calpi, in which were two
lots of the same shape, size, and material—in the second Temple they were of gold; the
one bearing the inscription 'la-JEHOVAH,' for Jehovah, the other 'la-Azazel,' for Azazel,
leaving the expression (Lev 16:8,10,26) (rendered 'scape-goat' in the Authorised Version)
for the present untranslated. These two goats had been placed with their backs to the
people and their faces towards the sanctuary (westwards). The high-priest now faced
the people, as, standing between his substitute (at his right hand) and the head of the
at the same time drew the two lots, laying one on the head of each goat. Popularly it was
deemed of good augury if the right-hand lot had fallen 'for Jehovah.' The two goats,
however, must be altogether alike in look, size, and value; indeed, so earnestly was it
sought to carry out the idea that these two formed parts of one and the same sacrifice,
that it was arranged they should, if possible, even be purchased at the same time. The
importance of this view will afterwards be explained.

The Goat Shown to the People
The lot having designated each of the two goats, the high-priest tied a tongue-shaped
piece of scarlet cloth to the horn of the goat for Azazel—the so-called 'scape-goat'—and
another round the throat of the goat for Jehovah, which was to be slain. The goat that
was to be sent forth was now turned round towards the people, and stood facing them,
waiting, as it were, till their sins should be laid on him, and he would carry them forth
into 'a land not inhabited.' Assuredly a more marked type of Christ could not be
conceived, as He was brought forth by Pilate and stood before the people, just as He
was about to be led forth, bearing the iniquity of the people. And, as if to add to the
significance of the rite, tradition has it that when the sacrifice was fully accepted the
scarlet mark which the scape-goat had borne became white, to symbolise the gracious
promise in Isaiah 1:18; but it adds that this miracle did not take place for forty years
before the destruction of the Temple!

The Confession of Sin and the Sacrifice
With this presentation of the scape-goat before the people commenced the third and
most solemn part of the expiatory services of the day. The high-priest now once more
returned towards the sanctuary, and a second time laid his two hands on the bullock,
which still stood between the porch and the altar, to confess over him, not only as
before, his own and his household's sins, but also those of the priesthood. The formula
used was precisely the same as before, with the addition of the words, 'the seed of
Aaron, Thy holy people,' both in the confession and in the petition for atonement. Then
the high-priest killed the bullock, caught up his blood in a vessel, and gave it to an
attendant to keep it stirring, lest it should coagulate. Advancing to the altar of burntoffering,
he next filled the censer with burning coals, and then ranged a handful of
frankincense in the dish destined to hold it. Ordinarily, everything brought in actual
ministry unto God mu st be carried in the right hand—hence the incense in the right and
the censer in the left. But on this occasion, as the censer for the Day of Atonement was
larger and heavier than usual, the high-priest was allowed to reverse the common order.
Every eye was strained towards the sanctuary as, slowly bearing the censer and the
incense, the figure of the white-robed high-priest was seen to disappear within the Holy
Place. After that nothing further could be seen of his movements.

The Mercy-seat
The curtain of the Most Holy Place was folded back, and the high-priest stood alone
and separated from all the people in the awful gloom of the Holiest of All, only lit up by
the red glow of the coals in the priest's censer. In the first Temple the ark of God had
stood there with the 'mercy-seat' over-shadowing it; above it, the visible presence of
Jehovah in the cloud of the Shechinah, and on either side the outspread wings of the
cherubim; and the high-priest had placed the censer between the staves of the ark. But
in the Temple of Herod there was neither Shechinah nor ark—all was empty; and the
high-priest rested his censer on a large stone, called the 'foundation-stone.' He now
most carefully emptied the incense into his hand, and threw it on the coals of the censer,
as far from himself as possible, and so waited till the smoke had filled the Most Holy
course on ministry (on his left hand), he shook the urn, thrust his two hands into it, and
Place. Then, retreating backwards, he prayed outside the veil as follows:164 'May it
please Thee, O Lord our God, and the God of our fathers, that neither this day nor
during this year any captivity come upon us. Yet, if captivity befall us this day or this
year, let it be to a place where the law is cultivated. May it please Thee, O Lord our God,
and the God of our fathers, that want come not upon us, either this day or this year. But
if want visit us this day or this year, let it be due to the liberality of our charitable deeds.
May it please Thee, O Lord our God, and the God of our fathers, that this year may be a
year of cheapness, of fulness, of intercourse and trade; a year with abundance of rain, of
sunshine, and of dew; one in which Thy people Israel shall not require assistance one
from another. And listen not to the prayers of those who are about to set out on a
journey.165 And as to Thy people Israel, may no enemy exalt himself against them. May
it please Thee, O Lord our God, and the God of our fathers, that the houses of the men
of Saron may not become their graves.'166 The high-priest was not to prolong this prayer,
lest his protracted absence might fill the people with fears for his safety.

The Sprinkling of the Blood
While the incense was offering in the Most Holy Place the people withdrew from
proximity to it, and worshipped in silence. At last the people saw the high-priest
emerging from the sanctuary, and they knew that the service had been accepted.
Rapidly he took from the attendant, who had kept it stirring, the blood of the bullock.
Once more he entered into the Most Holy Place, and sprinkled with his finger once
upwards, towards where the mercy-seat had been, and seven times downwards,
counting as he did so : 'Once' (upwards), 'once and once' (downwards), 'once and twice'
and so on to 'once and seven times,' always repeating the word 'once,' which referred to
the upwards sprinkling, so as to prevent any mistake. Coming out from the Most Holy
Place, the high-priest now deposited the bowl with the blood before the veil. Then he
killed the goat set apart for Jehovah, and, entering the Most Holy Place a third time,
sprinkled as before, once upwards and seven times downwards, and again deposited the
bowl with the blood of the goat on a second golden stand before the veil. Taking up the
bowl with the bullock's blood, he next sprinkled once upwards and seven times
downwards towards the veil, outside the Most Holy Place, and then did the same with
the blood of the goat. Finally, pouring the blood of the bullock into the bowl which
contained that of the goat, and again the mixture of the two into that which had held the
blood of the bullock, so as thoroughly to commingle the two, he sprinkled each of the
horns of the altar of incense, and then, making a clear place on the altar, seven times the
top of the altar of incense. Thus he had sprinkled forty-three times with the expiatory
blood, taking care that his own dress should never be spotted with the sin-laden blood.
What was left of the blood the high-priest poured out on the west side of the base of
the altar of burnt-offering.

The Cleansing Completed
By these expiatory sprinklings the high-priest had cleansed the sanctuary in all its parts
from the defilement of the priesthood and the worshippers. The Most Holy Place, the
veil, the Holy Place, the altar of incense, and the altar of burnt-offering were now clean
alike, so far as the priesthood and as the people were concerned; and in their
relationship to the sanctuary both priests and worshippers were atoned for. So far as the
law could give it, there was now again free access for all; or, to put it otherwise, the
continuance of typical sacrificial communion with God was once more restored and
secured. Had it not been for these services, it would have become impossible for priests
and people to offer sacrifices, and so to obtain the forgiveness of sins, or to have
fellowship with God. But the consciences were not yet free from a sense of personal
guilt and sin. That remained to be done through the 'scape-goat.' All this seems clearly
implied in the distinctions made in Leviticus 16:33: 'And he shall make an atonement for
the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the
congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for
all the people of the congregation.'

The Scape-goat
Most solemn as the services had hitherto been, the worshippers would chiefly think
with awe of the high-priest going into the immediate presence of God, coming out
thence alive, and securing for them by the blood the continuance of the Old Testament
privileges of sacrifices and of access unto God through them. What now took place
concerned them, if possible, even more nearly. Their own personal guilt and sins were
now to be removed from them, and that in a symbolical rite, at one and the same time the
most mysterious and the most significant of all. All this while the 'scape-goat,' with the
'scarlet-tongue,' telling of the guilt it was to bear, had stood looking eastwards,
confronting the people, and waiting for the terrible load which it was to carry away 'unto
a land not inhabited.' Laying both his hands on the head of this goat, the high-priest
now confessed and pleaded: 'Ah, JEHOVAH! they have committed iniquity; they have
transgressed; they have sinned—Thy people, the house of Israel. Oh, then, JEHOVAH!
cover over (atone for), I entreat Thee, upon their iniquities, their transgressions, and
their sins, which they have wickedly committed, transgressed, and sinned before
Thee—Thy people, the house of Israel. As it is written in the law of Moses, Thy
servant, saying: "For on that day shall it be covered over (atoned) for you, to make you
clean from all your sins before JEHOVAH ye shall be cleansed."' And while the prostrate
multitude worshipped at the name of Jehovah, the high-priest turned his face towards
them as he uttered the last words, 'Ye shall be cleansed!' as if to declare to them the
absolution and remission of their sins.

The Goat Sent into the Wilderness
Then a strange scene would be witnessed. The priests led the sin-burdened goat out
through 'Solomon's Porch,' and, as tradition has it, through the eastern gate, which
opened upon the Mount of Olives.167
Here an arched bridge spanned the intervening valley, and over it they brought the goat
to the Mount of Olives, where one, specially appointed for the purpose, took him in
charge. Tradition enjoins that he should be a stranger, a non-Israelite, as if to make still
more striking the type of Him who was delivered over by Israel unto the Gentiles!
Scripture tells us no more of the destiny of the goat that bore upon him all the iniquities
of the children of Israel, than that they 'shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into
the wilderness,' and that 'he shall let go the goat in the wilderness' (Lev 16:22). But
tradition supplements this information. The distance between Jerusalem and the
beginning of 'the wilderness' is computed at ninety stadia, making precisely ten
intervals, each half a Sabbath-day's journey from the other. At the end of each of these
intervals there was a station, occupied by one or more persons, detailed for the purpose,
who offered refreshment to the man leading the goat, and then accompanied him to the
next station. By this arrangement two results were secured: some trusted persons
accompanied the goat all along his journey, and yet none of them walked more than a
Sabbath-day's journey—that is, half a journey going and the other half returning. At last
they reached the edge of the wilderness. Here they halted, viewing afar off, while the
man led forward the goat, tore off half the 'scarlet-tongue,' and stuck it on a projecting
cliff; then, leading the animal backwards, he pushed it over the projecting ledge of rock.
There was a moment's pause, and the man, now defiled by contact with the sin-bearer,
retraced his steps to the last of the ten stations, where he spent the rest of the day and
the night. But the arrival of the goat in the wilderness was immediately telegraphed, by
the waving of flags, from station to station, till, a few minutes after its occurrence, it was
known in the Temple, and whispered from ear to ear, that 'the goat had borne upon him
all their iniquities into a land not inhabited.'

The Meaning of the Rite
What then was the meaning of a rite on which such momentous issue depended?
Everything about it seems strange and mysterious—the lot that designated it, and that
'to Azazel'; the fact, that though the highest of all sin-offerings, it was neither sacrificed
nor its blood sprinkled in the Temple; and the circumstance that it really was only part of
a sacrifice—the two goats together forming one sacrifice, one of them being killed, and
the other 'let go,' there being no other analogous case of the kind except at the
purification of a leper, when one bird was killed and the other dipped in its blood, and let
go free. Thus these two sacrifices—one in the removal of what symbolically represented
indwelling sin, the other contracted guilt—agreed in requiring two animals, of whom one
was killed, the other 'let go.' This is not the place to discuss the various views
entertained of the import of the scape-goat. But it is destructive of one and all of the
received interpretations, that the sins of the people were confessed not on the goat
which was killed, but on that which was 'let go in the wilderness,' and that it was this
goat—not the other—which 'bore upon him all the iniquities' of the people. So far as the
conscience was concerned, this goat was the real and the only sin-offering 'for all the
iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins,' for upon it
the high-priest laid the sins of the people, after he had by the blood of the bullock and
of the other goat 'made an end of reconciling the Holy Place, and the tabernacle of the
congregation, and the altar' (Lev 16:20). The blood sprinkled had effected this; but it had
done no more, and it could do no more, for it 'could not make him that did the service
perfect, as pertaining to the conscience' (Heb 9:9). The symbolical representation of this
perfecting was by the live goat, which, laden with the confessed sins of the people,
carried them away into 'the wilderness' to 'a land not inhabited.' The only meaning of
which this seems really capable, is that though confessed guilt was removed from the
people to the head of the goat, as the symbolical substitute, yet as the goat was not
killed, only sent far away, into 'a land not inhabited,' so, under the Old Covenant, sin
was not really blotted out, only put away from the people, and put aside till Christ came,
not only to take upon Himself the burden of transgression, but to blot it out and to
purge it away.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2012, 07:58:41 PM »


The Teaching of Scripture
Thus viewed, not only the text of Leviticus 16, but the language of Hebrews 9 and 10,
which chiefly refer to the Day of Atonement, becomes plain. The 'blood,' both of the
bullock and of the goat which the high-priest carried 'once a year' within 'the sacred veil,'
was 'offered for himself (including the priesthood) and for the errors (or rather
ignorances) of the people.' In the language of Leviticus 16:20, it reconciled 'the Holy
Place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar,' that is, as already explained,
it rendered on the part of priests and people the continuance of sacrificial worship
possible. But this live scape-goat 'let go' in the wilderness, over which, in the exhaustive
language of Leviticus 16:21, the high-priest had confessed and on which he had laid 'all
the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins,' meant
something quite different. It meant the inherent 'weakness and unprofitableness of the
commandment'; it meant, that 'the law made nothing perfect, but was the bringing in of a
better hope'; that in the covenant mercy of God guilt and sin were indeed removed from
the people, that they were 'covered up,' and in that sense atoned for, or rather that they
were both 'covered up' and removed, but that they were not really taken away and
destroyed till Christ came; that they were only taken into a land not inhabited, till He
should blot it out by His own blood; that the provision which the Old Testament made
was only preparatory and temporary, until the 'time of the reformation'; and that hence
real and true forgiveness of sins, and with it the spirit of adoption, could only be finally
obtained after the death and resurrection of 'the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin
of the world.' Thus in the fullest sense it was true of the 'fathers,' that 'these all...received
not the promise: God having provided some better things for us, that they without us
should not be made perfect.' For 'the law having a shadow of the good things to come,'
could not 'make the comers thereunto perfect'; nor yet was it possible 'that the blood of
bulls and of goats should take away sins.' The live goat 'let go' was every year a remover
of sins which yet were never really removed in the sense of being blotted out—only
deposited, as it were, and reserved till He came 'whom God hath set forth as a
propitiation...because of the passing over of the former sins, in the forbearance of God'
(Rom 3:25).
'And for this cause He is the mediatory of a new covenant, in order that, death having
taken place for the propitiation of the transgressions under the first covenant, they
which have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance' (Heb 9:15).
This is not the place for following the argument further. Once understood, many
passages will recur which manifest how the Old Testament removal of sin was shown in
the law itself to have been complete indeed, so far as the individual was concerned, but
not really and in reference to God, till He came to Whom as the reality these types
pointed, and Who 'now once at the end of the world hath been manifested to put away
sin by the sacrifice of Himself' (Heb 9:26). And thus did the types themselves prove their
own inadequacy and insufficiency, showing that they had only 'a shadow of the good
things to come, and not the very image of the things themselves' (Heb 10:1). With this
also agree the terms by which in the Old Testament atonement is designated as a
'covering up' by a substitute, and the mercy-seat as 'the place of covering over.'

The Term 'la-Azazel'
After this it is comparatively of secondary importance to discuss, so far as we can in
these pages, the question of the meaning of the term 'la-Azazel' (Lev 16:8,10,26). Both
the interpretation which makes it a designation of the goat itself (as 'scape-goat' in our
Authorised Version), and that which would refer it to a certain locality in the wilderness,
being, on many grounds, wholly untenable, two other views remain, one of which
regards Azazel as a person, and denoting Satan; while the other would render the term
by 'complete removal.' The insurmountable difficulties connected with the first of these
notions lie on the surface. In reference to the second, it may be said that it not only does
violence to Hebrew grammar, but implies that the goat which was to be for 'complete
removal' was not even to be sacrificed, but actually 'let go!' Besides, what in that case
could be the object of the first goat which was killed, and whose blood was sprinkled in
the Most Holy Place? We may here at once state, that the later Jewish practice of
pushing the goat over a rocky precipice was undoubtedly on innovation, in no wise
sanctioned by the law of Moses, and not even introduced at the time the Septuagint
translation was made, as its rendering of Leviticus 16:26 shows. The law simply ordained
that the goat, once arrived in 'the land not inhabited,' was to be 'let go' free, and the
Jewish ordinance of having it pushed over the rocks is signally characteristic of the
Rabbinical perversion of its spiritual type. The word Azazel, which only occurs in
Leviticus 16, is by universal consent derived from a root which means 'wholly to put
aside,' or, 'wholly to go away.' Whether, therefore, we render 'la-Azazel' by 'for him who
is wholly put aside,' that is, the sin-bearing Christ, or 'for being wholly separated,' or 'put
wholly aside or away,' the truth is still the same, as pointing through the temporary and
provisional removal of sin by the goat 'let go' in 'the land not inhabited,' to the final, real,
and complete removal of sin by the Lord Jesus Christ, as we read it in Isaiah 53:6:
'Jehovah hath made the iniquities of us all to meet on Him.'
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2012, 09:13:42 PM »
hey WW  those two goats bearing the same 'image' or looking alike..signifies sin in the flesh being the image of the corruptible[satan]...

  one is changed in form and rises from the altar. unto heaven and the presence of God..the other perishes in the wilderness[tahat wicked generation]...a land

uninhabited=everlasting  cutting off from the Holy city. son of perdition/of which Judas served as a type............

   the spirit of satan that leads our flesh into sin...will not ascend or enter the Holy city..but perish outside the city....

    I read about an instance where the scapegoat returned into the city...that occasion is the same as satan accusing before God's throne in the heavens..

   and it was after that....the practice of abyssing the goat occurred[the earth helped the woman and opened it's mouth and swallowed up the floodwater=

   accusations of the dragon]   this also fits in with Jesus 'casting out demons" from the people....a three day journey in the wilderness to make/offer

  sacrifice unto God... go tell that fox,.today and tomorrow I cast out demons and on the third day I shall be perfected

    Now,God judged that we should die once for sin...and praise Him for His great mercy...He also judged we shall receive free gift of eternal life and be

   cleansed from all sin. purified on His alter and ascend unto heaven...and the taking away of all their sins is the blame put on the spirit of rebellion[goat for Azazel]

 and that  the accusor/temptor never enter into the presence of God


   according to the pattern the sacrifices were layed out as a representation of what Father and Jesus do


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2012, 09:34:37 PM »
One goat is pushed backward over the cliff.
Is that satan that tells Jesus to jump of the pinnacle and the angels will catch Him?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 09:40:09 PM »
One goat is pushed backward over the cliff.
Is that satan that tells Jesus to jump of the pinnacle and the angels will catch Him?
Let's say it was a nice try.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 09:53:38 PM »
For me it's not about trying, but establishing a pattern.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 10:00:02 PM »
For me it's not about trying, but establishing a pattern.

well, Satan couldn't push him.  He doesn't have the authority.   He did the next best thing, try to tempt him.

Offline sheila

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 10:04:58 PM »
 i THINK THE CLIFF WAS SATAN GOING INTO THE ABYSS!  DO UNTO THERS AS YE WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU?

  WITH THE SAME JUDGEMENT YE JUDGE YE SHALL BE JUDGED?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 10:06:36 PM »
Quote
WITH THE SAME JUDGEMENT YE JUDGE YE SHALL BE JUDGED?

Humm, satan offered Jesus a kingdom..... :Chinscratch:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 11:05:15 PM »
 AND AT THE END OF THE 1000 YRS SATAN WAS RELEASED FROM THE ABYSS...AND WENT FORTH DECEIVING THE NATIONS......LOL!

  BUT DON'T FORGET..SATAN HAD TO FALL DOWN FIRST AND COMMIT ONE ACT OF WORSHIP

   rEV 3;9  I WILL MAKE THOSE WHO ARE OF THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, WHO CLAIM TO BE JEWS THOUGH THEY ARE NOT

  BUT ARE LIARS-I WILL MAKE THEM COME AND FALL DOWN AT YOUR FEET AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I HAVE LOVED YOU

   DO NOT REJOICE THAT THE DMONS ARE SUBJECT TO YOU..BUT THAT YOUR NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN


   AN EYE FOR AN EYE A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH=SIN'S LAW...THAT PAUL SPOKE OF

  HE THAT LIVES BY THE SWORD DIES BY THE SWORD

  HE COME TO ELEVATE THE LAW/FULFILL IT.  OUR SAVIOUR AGAINST OUR ADVERSARY THAT WAS STRONGER THAN US...

   THE ORIGINAL SERPENT LIAR AND MURDERER

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 11:54:16 AM »
i THINK THE CLIFF WAS SATAN GOING INTO THE ABYSS!  DO UNTO THERS AS YE WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU?
But obviously Jesus isn't satan.
And if the scapegoat is a pattern for His baptism + 40 days then how does satan fit in? It's about Jesus not satan.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2012, 04:22:28 PM »
well satan was in the wilderness too..tempting...when He was baptized in the Jordan He was led into the wilderness... the two goats are two types of spirit..

  rebellious that perishes in the wilderness and the one offered on the altar...Jesus is the strongman[spirit man] led of the Holy spirit into the wilderness

  to lay down His life for the sheep, in order to take it back up again....which is what He did 40 days after His resurrection

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2012, 04:33:09 PM »
It's the goat in the wilderness that carries the sin away. (see also the long posts above)
I think Jesus is the goat and the stong man is HS.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 04:38:50 PM »
A while back I wrote this: http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/matt-1618-and-the-gates-of-hell-(hades)-shall-not-prevail-against-it/msg129513/#msg129513

Still seems valid but after posting the article |I see a possible problem.
The second goat was led outside the city by a gentile. I doubt HS is a gentile....

Quote
Then a strange scene would be witnessed. The priests led the sin-burdened goat out
through 'Solomon's Porch,' and, as tradition has it, through the eastern gate, which
opened upon the Mount of Olives.167
Here an arched bridge spanned the intervening valley, and over it they brought the goat
to the Mount of Olives, where one, specially appointed for the purpose, took him in
charge. Tradition enjoins that he should be a stranger, a non-Israelite, as if to make still
more striking the type of Him who was delivered over by Israel unto the Gentiles!
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 05:02:23 PM »
 one is the Lord's lot..sacrificed..the other perishes in the wilderness never to enter the Holy city....a parallel can be drawn with the wandering of the Isrealite3s

  in the wilderness...and that wicked generation that does not enter into the promised land..but perishes in the wilderness..for they tempted  and tried God...

  Satan/scapegoat/Azazel's lot as son of perdition that goes into everlasting cutting off.   Jude gives further insight that matter...when he speaks

  of  Jude 1;7  that such that were cut off served as examples of they that suffer lof[not that the men who served an ignoble use are not raised up

  in incorruptiion]..but they served as example of the son of perdition/satan...the adversary/evil tool/contrast spirit and his fate

  Azazel means removal..and Jesus said..away from me,Satan.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 05:25:19 PM »
Ok, but just like the Azazel goat Jesus went into the wilderness.
40 days - 40 years.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 07:34:40 PM »
  yes..but as the shepherd that lay His life down for the sheep..to lead them forth from perdition.....into the Holy land/promises.....Jesus instructed us to pray

  lead us not into temptation[wilderness of temptation/..but deliver us from the evil one...both the temptation and the evil one was in the wilderness. .

  where Jesus too was led forth to be tried and tempted like us.

   the sins of the people being transferred unto the scapegoat to perish in the wilderness and never enter into the Holy city symbolizes the wicked generation

  offspring of viper/wicked tool/evil spirits having no place in the Holy city[or the removal of ALL THEIR SIN...away from me satan]

   Christ become sin[the sin offering on the altar] but no one can say Christ is cursed[or the cursed one doomed to destruction/or everlasting cutting off]

  for God transfers the sins of the people that Christ bore as goat of the Lord's lot..onto the head of the scapegoat[or mind of satan] to  perish in the wilderness

   thus crushing the 'head" or  'mind' of satan...that misleads mankind into sin

   Just as no tool[wicked] used in the final assembly of the  temple[that Christ raises as His body]


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: The scape goat - Day of Atonement
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 07:41:36 PM »
To be clear Sheila, I'm not saying you are wrong.
It's just that I don't see a perfect enough alignmend/pattern.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...