Choice, Will

[ded2daworld]

One of our major sins (myself included) is that deep down, we don't believe
and/or trust that God is doing things the way that WE think He should.
We think, "How can this be a part of God's plan or why doesn't God do this or that"
It was Job's mistake. Job and we do not understand why God does the things He does.
We SURE don't understand how (except to say by his power)
Questioning God is a lack of trust that God is doing and carrying out his PERFECT will.

and yes, our prayer affects him in the sense that God knew before the foundation of the earth what and when you're prayer would be. God told the 3 wise guys that "comforted" Job, "I will have my servant Job pray for you and because of that prayer I will spare your lives."

[WhiteWings]

One of our major sins (myself included) is that deep down, we don't believe
and/or trust that God is doing things the way that WE think He should.
We think, "How can this be a part of God's plan or why doesn't God do this or that"

I agree.
But otoh it's has a postive side too.
Example, the 6 year old kid of your best friend goes blind because of some weird infection.
You ask "Why God? Why?"
Yeah, you don't really trust God in that matter. That's not good.
But otoh you show compassion for the kid. And that, imo, is a good thing.
So perhaps things are not that black and white???

[ded2daworld]

Yep. Jobs friends didn't show him any compassion.
It would be like telling the blinded 6 year olds parents
"Oh yeah, God blinded him because you 2 are living in sin."
Totally wrong, uncalled for and unloving.

[sheila]

 WE NEED TO FIND A WAY OF JUSTIFYING  GOD SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND.   fAR BE IT FROM GOD NOT TO DO THE RIGHT THING. FOR HE IS

  A GOD OF JUSTICE AND MERCY  IT IS FOR THE VERY REASON OF UNBELEIF AND TRUST IN HIM AND HIS JUSTICE AND MERCY

  THAT ADAM AND EVE ATE FROM THE TOKOGAE.  SATAN ASSERTED THAT GOD'S JUDGEMENT WASN'T RIGHT IN THIS MATTER.

   PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS..LISTENING TO THE LIAR HAS LED ALL FALLEN ADAM INTO A PAINFUL AND HURTFUL WAY

   TRUE ;GOD SET UP THIS EXERCIZE IN HIS WISDOM..AND LIMITED THE EFFECTS OF THIS DEATH IN MERC.  PAINFUL LESSON

  THAT IT HAS BEEN..... ETERNAL GOOD FOR ALL OF US WILL COME OF IT..ENDURANCE MERCY HOPE AND HUMILITY,RIGHTEOUSNESSLOVE AND ALL

  GOOD FRUIT WILL COME OF IT FOREVER.  THE EXPIERENCE OF EVIL HAS BEEN A BITTER THING. BUT GOD WILL USE IT FOR THE GOOD[THUS

  TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL] OF THOSE WHO LOVE HIM[ALL RAISED UP IN CHRIST/SON OF HIS LOVE]

   THANK GOD THE WAY TO TOL WAS BARRED AND ADAM AND EVE DIDN'T EAT OF IT,TOO..AND WE REMAIN IN THIS IMPERFECT HORRIBLE

  STATE ETERNALLY.  I THANK HIM THAT HE HAS SHORTENED THE DAYS OF THIS EXPIERENCE IN MERCY TO SAVE ALL FLESH/ADAM  AND

  LIMITED THE DEATH SENTENCE DURATION..AND GRACEFULLY GIVEN THE FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE[UNDESERVEDLY]

   OUR WAR WAS WON BEFORE IT WAS EVER FOUGHT,OUR ETERNAL SALVATION ASSURED BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH LAID.

   COMFORT YE, COMFORT YE MY PEOPLE....DO NOT GIVE OUT WHEN YOU ARE DISCIPLINED OF GOD..GOD DISCIPLINES THOSE HE LOVES

   THE PRINCE OF THIS WORLD IS JUDGED..THAT HIS WORKS ARE EVIL[WHO CAN NOT AGREE THIS IS A GREIVOUS EXPIERENCE]


   ISAAIH 51;3  THE LORD WILL SURELY COMFORT ZION AND HAVE COMPASSION ON ALL HER RUINS, HE WILL MAKE HER DESERTS LIKE EDEN

  HER WASTELANDS LIKE THE GARDEN OF THE LORD  JOY AND GLADNESS WILL BE FOUND IN HER THANKSGIVING AND THE SOUND

  OF SINGING

  LISTEN TO ME MY PEOPLE    HEAR ME MY NATION   THE LAW WILL GO OUT FROM ME, MY JUSTICE WILL BECOME A LIGHT TO THE NATIONS

  MY RIGHTEOUSNESS DRAWS NEAR SPEEDILY  MY SALVATION IS ON THE WAY AND MY ARM WILL BRING JUSTICE TO THE NATIONS

..........V11  THE RANSOMED OF THE LORD WILL RETURN  THEY WILL ENTER ZION WITH SINGING  EVERLASTING JOY WILL CROWN THEIR HEADS

  GLADNESS AND JOY WILL OVERTAKE THEM AND SORROW AND SIGHING WILL FLEE AWAY

  I EVEN I AM HE THAT COMFORTS YOU.........

  AWAKE AWAKE!  RISE UP O JERUSALEM  YOU WHO HAVE DRUNK FROM THE HAND OF THE LORD HIS CUP OF WRATH[SPEND ALL OUR DAYS

  IN HIS WRATH WHEN WE SUFFER EVIL..FOR WE CHOSE THAT WHICH DID NOT PLEASE HIM[ALL IN ADAM]  YOU WHO HAVE  DRAINED TO IT'S DREGS

  THE GOBLET THAT MADE MEN STAGGER..................V 22 SEE  I HAVE TAKEN OUT OF YOUR HAND THE CUP THAT MADE YOU STAGGER

  FROM THAT CUP  THE GOBLET OF MY WRATH  YOU WILL NEVER DRINK AGAIN

  WEEPING ENDURETH THROUGH THE NIGHT..BUT JOY COMETH IN THE MORNING   TO US A SON IS GIVEN[THE WOMAN SHALL BE KEPT SAFE THROUGH

   CHILDBIRTH]

 

[rosered]

   Exactly  guys ..

 
  what helps  to know is , two things    as we also undergo the baptism of death [ the cross ]    and recive the same cup of suffering  in Christ , the Lords words are  "if this cup could pass  let it be but not my will but yours be done FATHER


 and as we are dying to the world  we  in turn say  forgive them FATHER for they know not what they do  , that is loving your enemies and the prayer [supplication] and dying to self for your   you  are also following Jesus   and taking up your cross  [same cross]     laying down your life for    your  friends as well as the enemies  of the cross   of Christ ,blood of attonment ,   the innocent sacrifice for sin for the guilty = grace of God
 
Phl 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ
 
  I know when you DIE the suffering ENDS  and the joy comes in the morning [new day dawned ]

[Lazarus Short]

Like most folks here, I have done laps around the free will vs determinism debate, and here is my take:

FIRST, God/YHVH/Jesus is absolutely sovereign.  That is basic, foundational.

Second, we have free will - BUT - from God's point-of-view, it's like, "Yeah, I told you so..."   :declare:He knew all along, but [I know this from my own experience with Him] He also waits with expectation to see what we will do.   :gimmefive:No, it does not sound consistent, and it's all too easy to say that free will is an illusion, or that God is not really fully in control.   :footmouth:It's really hard to get your mind around the whole thing, just as it is so difficult to wrap your mind around God's multi-dimensionality, or the seven Spirits of God + the Father + the Son = a ninefold Godhead, a trinity of trinities.   :dunno2:I think of free will as a delimited "wriggle room" given to us by God, with the ultimate outcome predetermined.

Let me illustrate.  If you're fond of time-travel stories, as I am, a big part of them lies in the temporal conundrums involved.  Characters get involved in situations which defy logic, but there they are, so often a choice that you've made/are making/are going to make, in a loop that you can not escape from.  Or think of driving down a highway, and ahead you see one of those billboards which hold two messages, one seen from the left, the other seen from the right (they use louvers).  As you approach, the sign reads "Free Will - What's the Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything?," but after you pass and look back, it reads "Forty-Two - Told You So!"

In short, I think it's a POV thing, something our minds in this life can't quite grasp.  

[jabcat]

The thread is locked.  Let's move on to other topics please.  Thanks.